Habs Sign Max Pacioretty

[Helmethead]

?

What makes you so sure? We don't have any available roster spots unless they want Paccioretty to be a depth forward which isn't going to happen. His only chance would be to light up training camp as well as Gui did but even then, he probably wouldn't make it because it would mean waiving another player.

He'll almost definitely start in the AHL but I expect him to improve so quickly that he might be our #1 call-up at forward by the time we need one. I could see him sticking with Montreal once that happens.

The reason why I am so bullish on Pacioretty playing with the Habs is quite simple. If the Habs don't believe he can make the big boy team, they would have left him in Michigan for one more year. That translates into one less year they'd have to pay, and one more year they would gain in terms of his RFA / waiver status. Look at what happened with Latendresse. He's turning 21, and yet we can't send him to the minors without exposing him to waivers. Which basically translates into him staying in Montreal. The same thing can happen with Pacioretty if we start bringing him back and forth. I'm not saying Latendresse would profit more from playing in the AHL, just saying that this is something that should be taken into cosideration.

My point is that the Habs brass has learnt from the Latendresse experience. Hence, if they are signing a freshman out of college to play (either in the AHL or NHL) it's becaise they believe he can contribute. Most probably scenario is he starts in Hamilton and is part of the team by Dec-Jan.

I just did some research on our depth at LW and this is what it looks like:

Montreal

Kostitsyn A.

Kostitsyn S.

Higgins C.

Tanguay A.

Begin S.

Hamilton

Manlow E. (is he signed?)

Ryan Flynn

Max Pacioretty

If you take into consideration the fact that A & S Kostitsyn will probably be playing on the same line, it seems we are set in Montreal in the LW position. However our depth in Hamilton is VERY week, which means that in the event of an injury, we'd be weak in Montreal. So, had we dug a little deeper, we would have seen this coming..

Ahhh what a little research can do...

Edited July 18, 2008 by Helmethead

[Easy Ryder]

It will be his play and results at the camp that will determine where he stands AHL or NHL.

Not because he is a 1st rounder, Latendresse was a secondround pick and made the team

because he put some points on the scoresheet at his first camp creating a media buzz around him

that still surrounds him.

Sergei Kost has played a lot of games during last camp, did not put numbers, did not made the team.

In Hamilton he put points in bunches and then he was with the team keeping his spot because he had some

results to show for.

Concerning the depth on LW. Tanguay UFA, Bégin UFA and Higgins RFA for next year.

Bégin will be likely gone, Tanguay will have to earn his paycheck this year and Higgins destiny is linked to Tanguay

production.

So there is plenty of room for Pac in two years, this year it's his production that will determine where he stands.

[KoZed]

I just did some research on our depth at LW and this is what it looks like:

Montreal

Kostitsyn A.

Kostitsyn S.

Higgins C.

Tanguay A.

Begin S.

Hamilton

Manlow E. (is he signed?)

Ryan Flynn

Max Pacioretty

Montreal

Tanguay A.

Kostitsyn A.

Higgins C.

Latendresse G

Begin S.

Stewart G.

Meaning Tanguay is a wildcard, can play all 3 forward positions will likely be moed to C or RW.

Hamilton

Stewart G.

Pacioretty M.

Flynn R.

It's true that we're thin on the LW in Hamilton, but at the same time you've got a surplus of RW (D'Agostini, Glumac, Milroy, Wyman, Beauregard) and at C (Chipchura, Manlow, Aubin, Maxwell, Trotter, Russel, White, Desharnais) so someone's gonna be move to the LW...

[saskhab]

Best case scenario for Pacioretty is a Sergei Kostitsyn type scenario... strong camp, very good AHL start, injury callup, then forces the Habs' hand with good NHL play. If that all doesn't take place, then he waits until next year with maybe a few callups here and there.

But our AHL team looks good, at least in terms of callup options. Even if Chipchura makes the Habs:

Pacioretty - Trotter - D'Agostini

Stewart - Maxwell - Glumac

Flinn - Desharnais - White

Aubin - O. Latendresse - Wyman

Beauregard, Russell

Valentenko - Belle

Henry - Carle

Weber (likely) - Hamilton signing

Denis

Desjardins

BTW, Manlow and Milroy are no longer Bulldogs. Maybe Wyman will get moved to D, though the Habs' brass wasn't too fond of when his college team put him back there in an injury pinch in his junior year.

Edited July 18, 2008 by saskhab

[CerebusClone]

That's sorta short-sighted and unfair to Tender. He greatly improved his game away from the puck in a very tough context (NHL) while also having to lose weight he was used to and improving his skating; all the the while turning out two 16 goals seasons with very little ice-time and no PP time.

To put it in context, 16 goals from Lats is more than Bertuzzi scored in Anaheim while getting 1st line & PP minutes with Getzlaf, Perry, Pronger & Nierdemayer on the ice with him.

And those 16 goals are basically bonus goals since Carbo was very clear that it wasn't Lats' job to put up points on the board; his job was to improve his defensive and checking game, period. Once that will be achieved to Carbo's liking, you'll see Lats get more ice-time in an offensive role with some PP time and you'll just see his stats rise.

Lats got nothing to learn in the AHL at this point; he already learned it all in the NHL.

I partly agree with you, although I do believe Latendresse could learn a few things down in the minors, mostly to regain confidence in his offensive abilities and to get experience as an offensive leader on the ice. Because the Canadiens skipped so many steps in his development, he's played the role of a marginal player for the last two years instead of getting loads of ice time leading his junior team, being a top player for Canada at the WJC, and playing an offensive role for the Bulldogs last season.

One problem Latendresse had before signing his contract was being a constant presence on the ice every game as he had a tendency to become passive, like he did at the WJC and from what I've heard also what he did in Drummondville from time to time. Honestly, I can't say he'a been able to work on this in Montreal, and his game is still nowhere close to the dominant and passionate player he was during training camps.

I don't care about his current production - this is not currently his primary role - however I do have concerns with the fact that he's become more often than not a non-factor on the ice. He's not crashing the boards, he's not crashing the net, he's not making things happen, and despite his hits total, he's not much of a physical presence on the ice... you don't need to score goals to let people know you're out there.

Considering his size and skills package, this is not normal. Does it absolutely need to go to Hamilton to change this... no. However, if he does show up at training motivated and in great shape, he needs to be given more responsabilities, more ice time, and a regular spot on one of our top three lines (which should all be able to produice some offence, especially if we sign Sundin). Otherwise, he nees to log tons of minutes in Hamilton, and play in an offensive role.

[CerebusClone]

Best case scenario for Pacioretty is a Sergei Kostitsyn type scenario... strong camp, very good AHL start, injury callup, then forces the Habs' hand with good NHL play. If that all doesn't take place, then he waits until next year with maybe a few callups here and there.

But our AHL team looks good, at least in terms of callup options. Even if Chipchura makes the Habs:

Pacioretty - Trotter - D'Agostini

Stewart - Maxwell - Glumac

Flinn - Desharnais - White

Aubin - O. Latendresse - Wyman

Beauregard, Russell

Valentenko - Belle

Henry - Carle

Weber (likely) - Hamilton signing

Denis

Desjardins

BTW, Manlow and Milroy are no longer Bulldogs. Maybe Wyman will get moved to D, though the Habs' brass wasn't too fond of when his college team put him back there in an injury pinch in his junior year.

Talent wise, it's not a bad lineup, but there's hardly any experienced AHL players to lead the way, and take these kids under their winger. After Glumac, Matt D'Agostini is pretty much the most experience forward!

I hope Gainey can get 2 or maybe even 3 experienced AHLer on that roster, some Benoit Gratton/Ramzi Abid/Jason Krog- type players to lead the way, and allow our prospects to play in a very competitve environment.

[saskhab]

Flinn also has some decent experience. If Chipchura gets sent down, I'm not too concerned about their leadership, either.

The leadership will fall on guys like Glumac, Flinn, Henry, Denis, Belle and D'Agostini if Chipchura isn't there. Maybe another experienced D wouldn't be a bad idea... Archer hasn't signed anywhere, perhaps he could be brought back.

Degon is about to sign in Germany, BTW. He won't be back unless the German contract isn't too his liking and he's without another option.

[BTH]

The reason why I am so bullish on Pacioretty playing with the Habs is quite simple. If the Habs don't believe he can make the big boy team, they would have left him in Michigan for one more year. That translates into one less year they'd have to pay, and one more year they would gain in terms of his RFA / waiver status. Look at what happened with Latendresse. He's turning 21, and yet we can't send him to the minors without exposing him to waivers. Which basically translates into him staying in Montreal. The same thing can happen with Pacioretty if we start bringing him back and forth. I'm not saying Latendresse would profit more from playing in the AHL, just saying that this is something that should be taken into cosideration.

My point is that the Habs brass has learnt from the Latendresse experience. Hence, if they are signing a freshman out of college to play (either in the AHL or NHL) it's becaise they believe he can contribute. Most probably scenario is he starts in Hamilton and is part of the team by Dec-Jan.

I just did some research on our depth at LW and this is what it looks like:

Montreal

Kostitsyn A.

Kostitsyn S.

Higgins C.

Tanguay A.

Begin S.

Hamilton

Manlow E. (is he signed?)

Ryan Flynn

Max Pacioretty

If you take into consideration the fact that A & S Kostitsyn will probably be playing on the same line, it seems we are set in Montreal in the LW position. However our depth in Hamilton is VERY week, which means that in the event of an injury, we'd be weak in Montreal. So, had we dug a little deeper, we would have seen this coming..

Ahhh what a little research can do...

Then we are pretty much saying the same thing. I thought you were saying he was a lock to make he team from training camp.

The difference between Max and Gui is that Gui from the Q hence had to go straight to the NHL. Max is going from college and can play half a year in Hamilton before being called up. He'll probably learn more in Hamilton than he would if he stayed in the States and this way, he can be on our team by the playoffs.

[Ecurb]

Is Max really 6'2 and 217lbs??

If so, we have a power forward in the making.

I hear he's a pretty good skater. :hlogo:

[Chris]

He was listed in the college games i saw last year as 6'2" 207. He could be that now. He does have good size.

[Ecurb]

He was listed in the college games i saw last year as 6'2" 207. He could be that now. He does have good size.

I bet he gets called up the first time Begin gets injuried.

Of course, I also think A.Kost will be our 2nd line RW.

And I've been waiting for that move for a while now.

Tanguay,Higgins,Latendresse,Pacioretty... I'm thinking nobody

has that depth at LW.

[BTH]

Tanguay,Higgins,Latendresse,Pacioretty... I'm thinking nobody

has that depth at LW.

In a year or two maybe but right now it looks much more impressive than it actually is. Tanguay and Higgins underachieved last year while the other two are nowhere near hitting their full potential. Latendresse is still a mediocre NHL player and Pacioretty hasn't even got a game of experience in the AHL. All four of these guys together in their primes would be great but it seems unlikely. Tanguay will be on his way down by the time these two are at their best.

It is impressive though when you consider that there is not even the argument that we would be playing some of these guys on the RW - we have the Kostitsyns and Kovalev over there and soon Lapierre.

[Ecurb]

In a year or two maybe but right now it looks much more impressive than it actually is. Tanguay and Higgins underachieved last year while the other two are nowhere near hitting their full potential. Latendresse is still a mediocre NHL player and Pacioretty hasn't even got a game of experience in the AHL. All four of these guys together in their primes would be great but it seems unlikely. Tanguay will be on his way down by the time these two are at their best.

It is impressive though when you consider that there is not even the argument that we would be playing some of these guys on the RW - we have the Kostitsyns and Kovalev over there and soon Lapierre.

I can't remember where I read it or heard it. But, Tanguay played on the 2nd line for the

Flames. The reason being Huselius,Conroy and Nolan line couldn't play D. So, Huselius

played with Langkow and Iginla and got 1st PP minutes.

Higgins could have scored 10 more goals with a little luck.

Latendresse, who fell in love with himself after losing weight has been

taking power skating lessons. You know if he gains a step he's going to

be a force.

Pacioretty, I have NEVER seen play, but everything that has been written

about him tells me he is on a S.Kost pace.

Hee Hee, RW looks to be strong, so does the D and goaltending. We need to

draft or trade for that elite future C.

[BTH]

Right, I know they're good but I don't know if all four of them will ever play on the LW together - and if they do, I don't think they'll all be in their primes. All four of them have 60-80 point potential, the 3 young ones seem like possible or likely 30 goal scorers someday. But never all four in one year, especially if one is playing on the fourth line.

[Ecurb]

Right, I know they're good but I don't know if all four of them will ever play on the LW together - and if they do, I don't think they'll all be in their primes. All four of them have 60-80 point potential, the 3 young ones seem like possible or likely 30 goal scorers someday. But never all four in one year, especially if one is playing on the fourth line.

Ya, what you wrote makes alot of sense.

Its almost an embarassment of riches.

Part of me thinks that Pacioretty will come up, play on the 4th line this year and have

a Lucic type impact. But, then I also think that playing him 10 minutes a game rather

then 20 in Hamilton might ###### his progress. Then again he might be a fine addition

in the playoffs with his size,speed and grit. Tough call.

Our management team is going to have some very tough decisions to make for the

09-10 season. Do we re-sign both Tanguay and Kovalev? If we do, do we trade one

of our young wingers? Kovalev will be 36 on Feb 24, 09 and Tanguay will be 29 on

Nov 21, 08. I'm positive we will re-sign Tanguay to a 4-5 year deal for around 5M

per. The Kost brothers are going nowhere. Neither is Latendresse or Pacioretty. I

think dealing Higgins without having Komisarek signed to a longterm deal would be

a foolish move. I suppose Latendresse could be moved to RW for the 09-10 season.

My best guess is that we won't re-sign Kovalev, even if we take a small step back

because all the other wingers need to play on the top 3 lines. But, I keep Kovalev

for our playoff run this year. :hlogo:

We've come a long way since the Corey,Houle,Tremblay days.

[CerebusClone]

In a year or two maybe but right now it looks much more impressive than it actually is. Tanguay and Higgins underachieved last year while the other two are nowhere near hitting their full potential.

I wouldn't say they underachieved, but simply that expectations were too high on them. I don't think Chris Higgins played as good of a 2-way game that he should have, but offensively he's right where he should be. This is a guy who was often compared to Lehtinen, and 25-30 goals and 50-60 points is a pretty good season for such players. Higgins isn't and will never be a natural goal scorer nor a dynamic offensive force.

As for Tanguay, we're talking about a very good offensive support player, but he cannot carry the offense by himself. He'll be a great complement to guys like Forsberg, Sakic, and Iginla, but last season he was put in a situation where he had to lead Calgary's second line. All things considered - including the fact that he played in a system promoting toughness and defensive aweraness, not actually his style - his 58 points make a lot of sense.

I'm not worried about Higgins, if he plays on a "third line" with either Koivu (is Sundin signs) or otherwise with Kyle Chipchura, and concentrates on being a very good overall player that we can use in any game situation (and if Carbonneau stops asking him to be the next Cam Neely), he'll be a great asset to this team.

Tanguay however, I'm still not sold on him and don't think he's the kind of player we needed to add (not that adding another skilled player will hurt). I hope we the Canadiens staff don't overrated him, thinking he's some great offensive leader on the ice, and I hope that we can Sundin to make him look great.