ShortHanded Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I'd say it was Therien's fault for having Bill Lindsey on the ice at such a crucial moment in the game yeah... I'm not blaming Begin, but I still blame Therrien... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 yeah... I'm not blaming Begin, but I still blame Therrien... Personally, I always had a problem with a coach sending marginal forth liners on the ice in a crucial defensive situation (and even more with Carbonneau still playing his forth line in the last 5-10 minutes of a close game when we're trailing by 1... but that's another subject). I could make an exception for a guy like Begin who never hesitates to throw himself in front of the puck to block a shot - that can actually be very useful - but for the others just send in more talented guys with good hockey smarts, in our case guys like Plekanec, Higgins, Kovalev, Koivu, or maybe even a guy like Andrei Kostsitsyn once he gains enough self-confidence to never hurry his plays. You don't want guys who are barely good enough to dump the puck and will do just that as soon as it reaches them, you want guys who'll make smart decisions once they get the puck, whether that is to skate with it, make a pass that leads to transition, or dump it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Personally, I always had a problem with a coach sending marginal forth liners on the ice in a crucial defensive situation (and even more with Carbonneau still playing his forth line in the last 5-10 minutes of a close game when we're trailing by 1... but that's another subject). I could make an exception for a guy like Begin who never hesitates to throw himself in front of the puck to block a shot - that can actually be very useful - but for the others just send in more talented guys with good hockey smarts, in our case guys like Plekanec, Higgins, Kovalev, Koivu, or maybe even a guy like Andrei Kostsitsyn once he gains enough self-confidence to never hurry his plays. You don't want guys who are barely good enough to dump the puck and will do just that as soon as it reaches them, you want guys who'll make smart decisions once they get the puck, whether that is to skate with it, make a pass that leads to transition, or dump it. I was going to point out Begin but you mentioned him. I think Kostopoulos is the same way. I think Carbo trusts every one of our players, so if the top guys were tired, he wouldn't be too scared to played the fourth line in the dying moments. The only guys he sometimes hesitates to use in key moments is rookies, he'd probably prefer to use Bouillon, Dandenault and Brisebois over O'Byrne while defending a lead in the dying moments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koivu Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Chipchura just has not done enough to prove he will ever be more than a 4th line player at best. Hes not tough, and worst hes not even fast. I find he makes up with being a pretty heady player, always seems to be in pretty good position. If he could win at least 50% of his faceoffs he could solidify his role. I dont think he will ever be a really physical player - but one thing that really disappoints me is his speed. He should have spent all Summer in Power Skating school - this year will be his last shot as a habs and he really needs to step his game up. Training camp has already proven there are too many too good players coming up that Kyle just cant get the benefit of the doubt like he will this year. If he wasn't a high draft pick, I think he would have already been toast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Chipchura just has not done enough to prove he will ever be more than a 4th line player at best. Hes not tough, and worst hes not even fast. I find he makes up with being a pretty heady player, always seems to be in pretty good position. If he could win at least 50% of his faceoffs he could solidify his role. I dont think he will ever be a really physical player - but one thing that really disappoints me is his speed. He should have spent all Summer in Power Skating school - this year will be his last shot as a habs and he really needs to step his game up. Training camp has already proven there are too many too good players coming up that Kyle just cant get the benefit of the doubt like he will this year. If he wasn't a high draft pick, I think he would have already been toast. The thing most people do not know/understand about Chips is that he is a in game clutch player. He is not a practice player, he is not the type of guy to score 2 goals in a 7-3 win. But he is the type of guy to score 1 or 2 in a 3-2 playoff game win. I saw him in Hamilton's Calder cup run and he was a champion blocking shots winning CLUTCH faceoffs doing what ever it takes to win. I really wished he played a few games in the Flyers series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokyohabs Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 The thing most people do not know/understand about Chips is that he is a in game clutch player. He is not a practice player, he is not the type of guy to score 2 goals in a 7-3 win. But he is the type of guy to score 1 or 2 in a 3-2 playoff game win. I saw him in Hamilton's Calder cup run and he was a champion blocking shots winning CLUTCH faceoffs doing what ever it takes to win. I really wished he played a few games in the Flyers series. That's nice, but he has to prove now that he can do that. It's not like he's Crosby and has the insane rep. For a player of his stature, he has to prove in a meaningless pre-season exhibition that he can do it whenever. Only way he'll make the lineup. Interesting dilemma. He's not fast enough to convert to winger, and not good at face-offs. No reason to doubt his leadership qualities, and can play with the puck a bit. Great defense & positioning, by all accounts. Is he that much better than Lapierre? So hard for him to work against that, especially because he's working against a known quality. Anyone know what his faceoffs are like in the preseason? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 That's nice, but he has to prove now that he can do that. It's not like he's Crosby and has the insane rep. For a player of his stature, he has to prove in a meaningless pre-season exhibition that he can do it whenever. Only way he'll make the lineup. Interesting dilemma. He's not fast enough to convert to winger, and not good at face-offs. No reason to doubt his leadership qualities, and can play with the puck a bit. Great defense & positioning, by all accounts. Is he that much better than Lapierre? So hard for him to work against that, especially because he's working against a known quality. Anyone know what his faceoffs are like in the preseason? Chipchura has far superior hockey sense and playmaking abilties than Maxim Lapierre does. His problem isn't so much skating speed as accelaration, but he can easily compensate that with sound positioning and being in constant movement. I like both players, but Lapierre is a good depth player in the Kostopoulos mold while I still think Kyle Chipchura can become a very good centre with decent offensive output as well as a great clutch player in the Peca-Claude Lemieux-Holik mold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Name me a 22 year old that is good at faceoffs. It's something you learn at the highest level. There's a reason grizzled vets like Brind'Amour are always at the top of that category and young guys aren't even close. I don't get this obsession with faceoff % with Chips. It's something you've got to accept isn't going to be high at this point in his career but as long as you see improvement it's something to build off of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Name me a 22 year old that is good at faceoffs. It's something you learn at the highest level. There's a reason grizzled vets like Brind'Amour are always at the top of that category and young guys aren't even close. I don't get this obsession with faceoff % with Chips. It's something you've got to accept isn't going to be high at this point in his career but as long as you see improvement it's something to build off of. excellent point. I think he is improving.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koivu Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 The thing most people do not know/understand about Chips is that he is a in game clutch player. He is not a practice player, he is not the type of guy to score 2 goals in a 7-3 win. But he is the type of guy to score 1 or 2 in a 3-2 playoff game win. I saw him in Hamilton's Calder cup run and he was a champion blocking shots winning CLUTCH faceoffs doing what ever it takes to win. I really wished he played a few games in the Flyers series. See while I agree with this, the problem is the Job available is for a 4th line centre - not a 1st or 2nd line centre on a Calder cup run. i.e. he is not going to get the minutes to do his thing - at least not in Montreal until he can prove he is a solid 4th line player. That means you go out there for very few minutes and have to make Maximum impact in the few minutes you play a game. That is why a guy like Lapierre wins out - he plays full heart and physical passion for the brief time he is out there - gets the team charged - enough to cycle it back to your top 3 lines. So for every 4th line player, every hit / play / faceoff draw is critical - its the only way to get attention and get more ice time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 See while I agree with this, the problem is the Job available is for a 4th line centre - not a 1st or 2nd line centre on a Calder cup run. i.e. he is not going to get the minutes to do his thing - at least not in Montreal until he can prove he is a solid 4th line player. That means you go out there for very few minutes and have to make Maximum impact in the few minutes you play a game. That is why a guy like Lapierre wins out - he plays full heart and physical passion for the brief time he is out there - gets the team charged - enough to cycle it back to your top 3 lines. So for every 4th line player, every hit / play / faceoff draw is critical - its the only way to get attention and get more ice time. Actually I'm sure many would argue that Kyle Chipchura has outplayed Maxim Lapierre during the last 2 training camps. I agree that he needs to prove himself, however he won't be able to do that in the AHL. Just like we've done with Latendresse, we need to give additional opportunities to a guy like Kyle Chipchura, accept his shortcomings as well as his ups and downs, and give him every chance to suceed instead of the tradionnal let-him-force-his-way-up approach we have with deoth players. Chipchura needs to play regularly at the NHL level to fulfill all hios potential, and with three solid top lines, we can easily afford to be a little patient with him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Actually I'm sure many would argue that Kyle Chipchura has outplayed Maxim Lapierre during the last 2 training camps Granted, but we all know that pre-season means nothing! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
koivu Posted October 3, 2008 Share Posted October 3, 2008 Actually I'm sure many would argue that Kyle Chipchura has outplayed Maxim Lapierre during the last 2 training camps. I agree that he needs to prove himself, however he won't be able to do that in the AHL. Just like we've done with Latendresse, we need to give additional opportunities to a guy like Kyle Chipchura, accept his shortcomings as well as his ups and downs, and give him every chance to suceed instead of the tradionnal let-him-force-his-way-up approach we have with deoth players. Chipchura needs to play regularly at the NHL level to fulfill all hios potential, and with three solid top lines, we can easily afford to be a little patient with him. Well barring injuries to one of the top 3 centers - I dont see him getting that opportunity. The thing is I really like Chipchura - he brings a lot to the table - smarts, defensively responsible, good playmaker etc. Then I ask myself then why am I upset at him ? Latendresse went out and did Power Skating this Summer, and came into camp in supposedly great shape. Now I look at a guy like Chipchura - hes never going to be a Physical Player - he does not have the Mass or the Anger in his game to play that way like Lapierre. But he could become much FASTER, why couldnt he take Power Skating like Latendresse did this summer to step up his game ??? i.e. What is Chipchura doing to improve his game to prove he is ready for Prime Time and deserving more ice time ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 From Habsinsideout.com today: Chipchura still on the bubble posted by at 16h40 EST on Oct 12 Kyle Chipchura has been the lone healthy scratch for the Canadiens in their first two games and head coach Guy Carbonneau said he hasn't decided whether to dress Chipchura for Monday night's game against the Flyers in Philadelphia. The Canadiens held a 45-minute workout in the City of Brotherly Love today with a full roster of 21 healthy players. Injured players Francis Bouillon, Christopher Higgins and Georges Laraque have skated the past two days in Montreal, but none of them is ready to play. Meanwhile, Carey Price will get the start in goal. come on Carbo, give the guy ONE game. ONE game to see what he can do.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 From Habsinsideout.com today: Chipchura still on the bubble posted by at 16h40 EST on Oct 12 Kyle Chipchura has been the lone healthy scratch for the Canadiens in their first two games and head coach Guy Carbonneau said he hasn't decided whether to dress Chipchura for Monday night's game against the Flyers in Philadelphia. The Canadiens held a 45-minute workout in the City of Brotherly Love today with a full roster of 21 healthy players. Injured players Francis Bouillon, Christopher Higgins and Georges Laraque have skated the past two days in Montreal, but none of them is ready to play. Meanwhile, Carey Price will get the start in goal. come on Carbo, give the guy ONE game. ONE game to see what he can do.... IMO, he shouldn't get a shot til the Habs lose or somebody is injured; you don't mess with a winning lineup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 IMO, he shouldn't get a shot til the Habs lose or somebody is injured; you don't mess with a winning lineup. I doubt removing Mathieu Dandeneault will have a negative impact on the team's performances... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShortHanded Posted October 13, 2008 Share Posted October 13, 2008 I doubt removing Mathieu Dandeneault will have a negative impact on the team's performances... Seriously. besides, by that criteria, we did lose in OT in the first game, so does he get a shot or no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I guess we have our answers !! he will go down and should get quality icetime before being called back as soon as there are injuries or trades Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I guess we have our answers !! he will go down and should get quality icetime before being called back as soon as there are injuries or trades Not surprising because Laraque came back yesterday, and Higgins is now practicing with the team. We also get some much needed cap relief... from just over $200,000 in space to over $1.1m. Chips' best shot is next year, really. Hopefully he develops some chemistry with the likes of Pacioretty, D'Agostini, and Stewart, as all 4 of those guys could be Habs right out of training camp in 2009-10. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I feel bad for Chips he is such a competitor, in the big games he shows up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted October 16, 2008 Author Share Posted October 16, 2008 I feel bad for Chips he is such a competitor, in the big games he shows up. If he's such a competitor he should prove it and be dominant in the AHL the same way Laps was. That means showing up and performing every game, not just the big ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Everyone on RDS keep saying that he is not with the Habs because of a lack of speed, something Lapierre has no problem with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 (edited) If he's such a competitor he should prove it and be dominant in the AHL the same way Laps was. That means showing up and performing every game, not just the big ones. EXACTLY. If he wants to be an NHL player, he's got to show that he can go all-out, all game, every game in Hamilton. Nothing wrong with having to earn your shot. And even then, no matter how great you are in Hamilton, you have to continue to produce when you do get your shot in Montreal. Just ask Grabovski... Edited October 16, 2008 by sbhatt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Lapierre's recent awesome play isn't helping Chipchura's cause. If this keeps up he might get traded Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Lapierre's recent awesome play isn't helping Chipchura's cause. If this keeps up he might get traded Yeah...Lapierre has been great the past couple of games. He really kicked it into gear after not looking very good in Buffalo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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