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The Chipchura Case


KoZed

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Oops... I forgot that your opinions are the truth... so we'll just leave it at because there really is no point.

And just to clarify something on a end note, I didn't actually mean to put Begin and Dandeneault together, I mentioned that I think that Chipchura and Lapierre deserve to play regularly, that Kostopoulos is currently playing great and deserves to stay, that Laraque fills a specific need, and so that in my opinion that only left Begin and Dandeneault for one role as a reserve player; what I guess I omitted to add is that I also think that Begin is a great asset on the penalty kill, and deserves to stay because of the good job he's done for us over the last few years, so obviously I think Dandeneault is the odd-man out.

I think you may be missing that Chipchura is a centre, the fifth in the lineup. Both Begin and Dandy are wingers.

He will play when and hopefully not when a senior centre is injured. He is going nowhere and will replace our beloved smurf next year or sooner.

AK27 signs an extension and wears the "C" until he retires. My call anyway...

As for Danis, he will be playing in NY if the 15 year goalie goes down otherwise....

Nice save percentage in the AHL again though. Probably heading for first all-star again.

Right, did that then road the pine....

This guy makes it one day, not sure where though.

Stop fuming at each other guys. We have the best team we have had in years and a great farm. The organization is kicking butt!!!

Be cool! Enjoy the moment! Live the now!!

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I don't really see an opportunity for Chips this season. Even if Dandenault gets traded, he'd still be the 13th forward and it wouldn't be worth keeping him around when he could be playing key minutes in Hamilton.

With all the expiring contracts next year, he should be able to grab a spot, especially with Lang opening up a spot for another centre. If Chipchura misses the team next season, then we'll have passed him by and we'll have missed out on a prospect that could have been a lot more.

The key here is key minutes. I hope he's challenged in Hamilton and gets to play in different roles (offensive and defensive) not just pigeon-holed...

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The only thing that I don't get is how the Habs management deems Lapierre a better centre than Chipchura.

I am not a talent scout but I do have eyes!

Chipchura is way ahead of Lapierre.

Well chips said it himself. Waive Chips all good. Waive Laps he will be picked up. From Management standpoint what would you do? For the moment, at least?

I thought so.....

[

Edited by HABBER-oooooKNOWS
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The only thing that I don't get is how the Habs management deems Lapierre a better centre than Chipchura.

I am not a talent scout but I do have eyes!

Chipchura is way ahead of Lapierre.

Laps is faster and fits the role of a fourth liner more.

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Well chips said it himself. Waive Chips all good. Waive Laps he will be picked up. From Management standpoint what would you do? For the moment, at least?

I thought so.....

[

You are right I just wasn't thinking of it from that angle.

Laps is faster and fits the role of a fourth liner more.

Laps is a bit faster and clearly more physical but I don't think we need a traditional 4th line. Just like our third line is not a traditional checking line, especially when Higgins returns.

All in all I just don't want Chips to get discouraged and eventually find his way off our team. I think he has a lot to offer.

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the "problem" is we have a wealth of riches and have to make tough choices. A trade is probably going to happen (and not for gaborik dammit) We can't keep everybody down in hamilton and keep them happy. It will be interesting to see what Bob comes up with once again probaably something none of us will see coming. :ghg:

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Laps is a bit faster and clearly more physical but I don't think we need a traditional 4th line. Just like our third line is not a traditional checking line, especially when Higgins returns.

All in all I just don't want Chips to get discouraged and eventually find his way off our team. I think he has a lot to offer.

He won't, he seems like a well matured young man ahead of his age. As far as speed, I think Laps is way faster then Chips, infact Laps may be the fastest player on the team if it was a straight race from point A to point B. Ever see him catch and pass certain opposing defensemen in a chase for a puck, it blows my mind as he gains speed.

Also let's not forget that,with time, Laps could become deadly with the puck for a fourth liner. He has an offensive gift. He proved that last year when he first came up, scored a bunch of goals and then got sent down around christmas because of politics and rules forced him the odd man out. The city went crazy. Chips is now in the same boat, only he can control his destiny now.

With all that said, I think Chips is better defensively and is way, way, tougher then Laps.Chips can scrap. Laps is a wanna be tough guy. He needs to learn how to beat someone's ass and not hang on for dear life, That will get old fast and he will become a laughing stock. Even Tucker and Avery get respect because they are pesky but throw toe to toe when need be.

Seems like Laps is an eager student which is a delightful sight for my eyes. Watch here during Big Georges fight with Thorton. Right at about 41 seconds on the replay Laps skates in for a good view and seems to be picking up some pointers, so do gorges and Komi. Awwwwwwwwww, I love Laraque.

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I think you may be missing that Chipchura is a centre, the fifth in the lineup. Both Begin and Dandy are wingers.

He will play when and hopefully not when a senior centre is injured. He is going nowhere and will replace our beloved smurf next year or sooner.

AK27 signs an extension and wears the "C" until he retires. My call anyway...

As for Danis, he will be playing in NY if the 15 year goalie goes down otherwise....

Nice save percentage in the AHL again though. Probably heading for first all-star again.

Right, did that then road the pine....

This guy makes it one day, not sure where though.

Stop fuming at each other guys. We have the best team we have had in years and a great farm. The organization is kicking butt!!!

Be cool! Enjoy the moment! Live the now!!

That would be a tough call. Kovalev would be the real leader but would it be worth giving him the C for only a couple of years before he retires. I think I'd probably give it to Komisarek and have him keep it for 10 years. It tells Komisarek that we want him to be the leader of the future and there is another reason. Giving Kovalev the C soon before he retires seems like a sure way for the team to suffer a morale drop when he leaves. Why set your team up for all the unnecessary despair of having your second beloved captain in 5 years leave your team?

The only thing that I don't get is how the Habs management deems Lapierre a better centre than Chipchura.

I am not a talent scout but I do have eyes!

Chipchura is way ahead of Lapierre.

Had you put the emphasis on centre, then I might agree - Lapierre would probably do better on the wing than at C and that open up a spot for Chips. But I think you were calling Chipchura the better player which just isn't true yet. Last season, Chipchura won the job at training camp over Lapierre, which was a little bit of a "racy" move by the Habs to demote the player who had past experience on the team. But Chips lost his spot to Laps and at the same time lost his claim to that 4th line spot.

It may take Chips another 2 or 3 years to pass Lapierre in the depth chart. The one thing that he's got going for him is that he projects as a third line centre

while Lapierre is more of a 4th line player. They should have different roles and, hopefully, won't be in direct competition with eachother once they're both on the team.

Also, in Lapierre's defence as a C, he's been doing better at faceoffs this year. I don't have the stats in front of me, but from my memory of the game logs in the Gazette, Lang (who came in, filling the need of a skilled C at faceoffs, among other things) has been our worst centre at them so far this season.

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Also, in Lapierre's defence as a C, he's been doing better at faceoffs this year. I don't have the stats in front of me, but from my memory of the game logs in the Gazette, Lang (who came in, filling the need of a skilled C at faceoffs, among other things) has been our worst centre at them so far this season.

Well, now the stats are in front of you and you're right. After 4 games:

Plekanec 62.5% (wow!)

Koivu 55.7%

Lapierre 51.0%

Lang 41.3%

Montreal is a combined 52.6% on faceoffs, which is good for 8th in the league. I hope this stat remains up there, because with the new defensive zone faceoff on PKs, faceoffs are more important than ever.

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Plex is on fire at faceoffs!

Grabovski's numbers: 16 of 26 for a 38% to go along with 4GP 0G 0A 0P.

I bet he goes to Russia next year.

EDIT: 16 wins and 26 losses at the circle for 38%.

Edited by MMPL
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Seems like Laps is an eager student which is a delightful sight for my eyes.

Lapierre & Latendresse both took boxing lessons this summer. I dont know if it's a sign, but both already got into scraps with just 4 games played.

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Plex is on fire at faceoffs!

Grabovski's numbers: 16 of 26 for a 38% to go along with 4GP 0G 0A 0P.

I bet he goes to Russia next year.

good ole grabs just rolling right along. what a waste of talent. he needs to go to russia.

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Plex is on fire at faceoffs!

Grabovski's numbers: 16 of 26 for a 38% to go along with 4GP 0G 0A 0P.

I bet he goes to Russia next year.

I'm not all that great at math...but 16 out of 26 seems a lot higher than 38%.

Do you mean 16 wins/26 losses?

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I'm not all that great at math...but 16 out of 26 seems a lot higher than 38%.

Do you mean 16 wins/26 losses?

Thanks for correcting me Trizzak :)

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Lapierre & Latendresse both took boxing lessons this summer. I dont know if it's a sign, but both already got into scraps with just 4 games played.

Ya I heard that too. While Gui looked o.k he just doesn't seem mean enough, and Laps? well, he looks mean and mouthy but I couldn't help notice in his fight he just tucked himself in close and hung on. Kind of embarrassing actually. Now don't get me wrong, I like both players and sure do wish they could throw punch for punch, but I don't think boxing lessons or tutoring from Kimbo Slice himself is going to help these guys. I hope I'm wrong.

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Ya I heard that too. While Gui looked o.k he just doesn't seem mean enough, and Laps? well, he looks mean and mouthy but I couldn't help notice in his fight he just tucked himself in close and hung on. Kind of embarrassing actually. Now don't get me wrong, I like both players and sure do wish they could throw punch for punch, but I don't think boxing lessons or tutoring from Kimbo Slice himself is going to help these guys. I hope I'm wrong.

especially not Kimbo the Bimbo slice (14 seconds?) :lol: i think bgl is a better tutor!!!!!!!!!

Edited by habs rule
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especially not Kimbo the Bimbo slice (14 seconds?) :lol: i think bgl is a better tutor!!!!!!!!!

I hear ya in the ring that is, but that boy is a street fighter. I'm sure if you put Laraque in the ring he'd get worked. On the same token put any UFC champ on skates and they'd probably get worked. Not really the point though......Laps needs to throw punches if he wants to be taken seriously. Kind of like our poor little friend KOSTO. He looked bad last night against Sauer, he meant well, but still looked like a punch bag.

Chips can throw punches was really my point at the end of the day.

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Humdinger of a thread. :rolleyes:

Chips has a two-way contract. Lapierre does not.

Remember: hockey is a BUSINESS.

That's one way to see, and it makes sense.

Another is to think that good business would be to make sure that both Lapierre and Chipchura develop properly - two good young players who could be here for several years - instead of wasting more time and resources on a guy like Dandeneault who's on the last year of his contract, hardly brings anything to the table besides the fact that he can fill-in as a below-average defenseman in case of injury, and probably has very little market-value even at his best (it's not like we'll get anything good for him by putting him on display). Regarless of when he makes the final jump, Chipchura will need to make a few adjustments like every other player does, and playing him today will get him there faster; if he had played the entire season and playoffs with the Canadiens last season, he would probably be a better player today.

Also, with many decisions ahead for Bob Gainey, the strength of our first three offensive lines gives management a great opportunity to evaluate Chipchura at the NHL now, and thus be in a better position this summer to decide whether they should keep investing in him, and plan him into next year's roster... or just move on, make other plans, and possibly trade him. Knowledge is key to success in any business, and knowing as quickly as possible what Chipchura is capable of in the NHL will allow Gainey to make more informed decisions and less guessing; we know what Dandeneault brings, and it's very little, so I personally a good business opportunity being wasted in this case.

Edited by CerebusClone
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That's one way to see, and it makes sense.

Another is to think that good business would be to make sure that both Lapierre and Chipchura develop properly - two good young players who could be here for several years - instead of wasting more time and resources on a guy like Dandeneault who's on the last year of his contract, hardly brings anything to the table besides the fact that he can fill-in as a below-average defenseman in case of injury, and probably has very little market-value even at his best (it's not like we'll get anything good for him by putting him on display). Regarless of when he makes the final jump, Chipchura will need to make a few adjustments like every other player does, and playing him today will get him there faster; if he had played the entire season and playoffs with the Canadiens last season, he would probably be a better player today.

Also, with many decisions ahead for Bob Gainey, the strength of our first three offensive lines gives management a great opportunity to evaluate Chipchura at the NHL now, and thus be in a better position this summer to decide whether they should keep investing in him, and plan him into next year's roster... or just move on, make other plans, and possibly trade him. Knowledge is key to success in any business, and knowing as quickly as possible what Chipchura is capable of in the NHL will allow Gainey to make more informed decisions and less guessing; we know what Dandeneault brings, and it's very little, so I personally a good business opportunity being wasted in this case.

To a degree I agree with you. However...

Dandenault isn't doing butkas with the team, he's actually serving a very good purpose and playing solid hockey. I don't understand why people are attacking him as brutally as they are, other than perhaps he's become the Brisebois of the 21st century so far. He's playing fourth line minutes, is doing his job, and isn't causing problems. He's a +1 (I know, just a stat, however...) in slightly over 10 minutes of ice time. Do you really want to see Chipchura coming up to play 10 minutes a game at this point? And if you do, then the question is this: who plays the wing, Chipper or Lapierre?

Chipper is, unfortunately, at the bottom of a numbers game - a very pleasant problem for the Habs to have. He also isn't the best skater - and that's something the Habs are keying on. Leaving him down in the 'A' for a little longer really won't hurt him (especially with major ice time), and since it's also probably the best dollars and cents decision, there's not much of a question, no matter now unfortunate it is.

Chipper has two short-term routes: one, via trade, he gets his shot elsewhere. Not an unreasonable thought either. He's got great talent, is defensively aware, and is a strong character guy - we could certainly get something strong in return. Route two: Either Koivu or Lang doesn't come back next season, or there's a trade involving one of the other centres sometime over the course of the next year. In the meantime, Chipper continues to work on his skating and faceoffs - probably his two largest deficits by a long margin.

I suspect we'll see him in Montreal this season. But only for injury replacement. Next year he'll have that third line spot that Lang will probably vacate. Gainey is going for it this season at the expense (to a degree) of development. Lang is here for precisely that reason. Chipper will go back to being a huge priority next year. That just my guess, though.

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