KoZed Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 * to KoZ: that was just good-natured ribbing there; I know through your posts you know as well as anyone the language thing goes both ways. I wonder if both Higs and Lats might be better off if their names were Higsenov and Latendristin. Then everyone might just accept what they were doing regardless. Yeah I know, my comment was a reference to how people have some sort of gratuitous hate/love for players that can only be explained with the language thing. Unlike Latendress, Sergei Kostitsyn is really off to an ugly start, yet you dont hear anyone putting him down constantly and campaigning to have him sent to the AHL. Ugh, I'm tired to have to put up with this sort of non-sense, but I guess its' an inevitable part of the fandom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Latendresse is a whipping boy and barring a 90 PT Bertuzzi type season will continue to be one. Guess what they'll say when he gets a 90 pts Bertuzzi season? "Trade him while his value is high!" :puke: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 (edited) Yeah I know, my comment was a reference to how people have some sort of gratuitous hate/love for players that can only be explained with the language thing. Unlike Latendress, Sergei Kostitsyn is really off to an ugly start, yet you dont hear anyone putting him down constantly and campaigning to have him sent to the AHL. Ugh, I'm tired to have to put up with this sort of non-sense, but I guess its' an inevitable part of the fandom. I know, it is tiring. I don't really buy into the language thing, but the biggest whipping boys on this board are Lats, Dandenault and Breezeby. They were preceded by Ribeiro, so what do I know. Edited November 3, 2008 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I know, it is tiring. I don't really buy into the language thing, but the biggest whipping boys on this board are Lats, Dandenault and Breezeby. They were preceded by Ribeiro, so what do I know. Brisebois' criticism has been such a long-standing joke ridiculed even by Gainey that I've sort of tuned it out. But Brisebois/Rivet was the same sort of language divide case that Theodore/Hackett or Ribeiro/Matt Higgins or Lapierre/Chipchura seems to be. Now D'Agostini has 13 pts in 10 games in the AHL. Wait a little and you'll start reading more and more how he should be up instead of Lats or Lapierre or Begin (even if DAgo he doesnt play LW or C). It's that predictable... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 All I can say is thank the hockey gods Guy Carbonneau and Bob Gainey run this team!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 (edited) I don't think the lines should be changed at all. Nor do I think that D'ago or anyone else should be called up. I completely agree that Sergie was affected by his brother's hit, and that if we should be getting on someone about their performance, it should be him. But I don't see the love affair with Lats. He's a pretty good player, who is working on his game. I have seen most of the other players on this team have a major impact on the outcome of the game with their individual efforts. These players were guys like Kosto and Begin last playoffs. Sergie and Andre. Lappierre. (If there was a language issue, I would be getting on his case, but I never have. He plays his role very well and brings energy to every game.) All I'm saying is that I have never seen this game changing impact from him. I see him as a top liner competing for a spot with guys like Lang(huge chemistry with Kovy), I know he's a centre, but lines can be juggled around for chemistry, and I can't see him playing with Lats. Both are too slow. Sergie (non issue as his recent performance is poor), and Higgins. Regarding 2nd assists, Plekanec had major impact on his line consistently, as does Higgins. As stated by an earlier poster, maybe those hits are makiing some room for Koivu and Tanguay. I'm sure they are. As for Lats...No man crush here...He's a pretty good player. That's it so far. I'm looking forward to retracting this post and eating some crow. Can't wait to see him as a force. Edited November 3, 2008 by BCHabnut Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I don't think the lines should be changed at all. Nor do I think that D'ago or anyone else should be called up. I completely agree that Sergie was affected by his brother's hit, and that if we should be getting on someone about their performance, it should be him. But I don't see the love affair with Lats. He's a pretty good player, who is working on his game. I have seen most of the other players on this team have a major impact on the outcome of the game with their individual efforts. These players were guys like Kosto and Begin last playoffs. Sergie and Andre. Lappierre. (If there was a language issue, I would be getting on his case, but I never have. He plays his role very well and brings energy to every game.) All I'm saying is that I have never seen this game changing impact from him. I see him as a top liner competing for a spot with guys like Lang(huge chemistry with Kovy), I know he's a centre, but lines can be juggled around for chemistry, and I can't see him playing with Lats. Both are too slow. Sergie (non issue as his recent performance is poor), and Higgins. Regarding 2nd assists, Plekanec had major impact on his line consistently, as does Higgins. As stated by an earlier poster, maybe those hits are makiing some room for Koivu and Tanguay. I'm sure they are. As for Lats...No man crush here...He's a pretty good player. That's it so far. I'm looking forward to retracting this post and eating some crow. Can't wait to see him as a force. I have no love affair for Lats. I just think he is unjustly scapegoated while others regularly receive a free pass. He is producing, and he is still being criticized or mentioned as being moved off his line. I don't understand why he is a target. Hey Kozed, did you say Matt Higgins? LOL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I have no love affair for Lats. I just think he is unjustly scapegoated while others regularly receive a free pass. He is producing, and he is still being criticized or mentioned as being moved off his line. I don't understand why he is a target. That's the other annoying thing. When a player gets undeserved criticism, you start defending him again and again and you get labeled a fan boy. Hey Kozed, did you say Matt Higgins? LOL Yep. remember him? He turned pro about the same time as Ribs and I remember back then that there was this constent debate about Matt Higgins being bigger, stronger, more physical than Ribs and more deserving of getting called-up, getting ice-time, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted November 3, 2008 Author Share Posted November 3, 2008 What love affair with Lats? People are simply pointing out that calling for his demotion or benching is ridiculous. He is on pace for career highs and is playing on what right now is the Habs best line. Those are facts, not fanboys making up things to make a guy sound better. Is he a fantastic player who makes that line click? No. Is he hurting the line? No. Is he contributing to the success of the Habs? Absolutely. Right now there is neither reason to criticize nor to praise him. He is doing what is being asked of him and we should appreciate that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 I suppose all this debate will die down when we win more than one game. 1-8-1 start is horrendous. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 That's the other annoying thing. When a player gets undeserved criticism, you start defending him again and again and you get labeled a fan boy. Yep. remember him? He turned pro about the same time as Ribs and I remember back then that there was this constent debate about Matt Higgins being bigger, stronger, more physical than Ribs and more deserving of getting called-up, getting ice-time, etc. I do remember Matt Higgins, Terry Ryan, Brad Brown, Eric Chouinard and Jason Ward too. Wow, the shine off that 93 Cup wore off pretty fast with first rounders like that :puke: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 It's definitely nice to be dabating about a guy who has .7 pts per game and his spot on the top 2 lines. What a great thing to have to talk about. I do have high expectations of Lats, as do others, and I think that is why they want to see him have more impact. I'm content to watch him play his game, exactly where he is and how he is playing as long as we are winning. But I would LOVE to see him dominate the forecheck and become hated by the other team for being a force. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 But I would LOVE to see him dominate the forecheck and become hated by the other team for being a force. He's getting there. The sequence where he knocked Pock on his ass last night was exactly like that. And there was another sequence when Sutton passed his glove in Higgins' face and Lats jumped on Sutton. That gets you noticed. I think people sort of expect Lats to be more flashy then he is. I remember Damphousse getting the same sort of criticism when he was the LW of Muller and Bellows. When Komisarek came at first, people were dissapointed because he wasnt the big dominant bone-crushing defenseman he was hyped to be. He only really got there last year, at 25, in his 6th pro season. It takes time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Another off week for the Habs. They're not playing before friday night. It's annoying for fans, just imagine for the players. Can't get a groove and paced it. Every win is followed by a long rest. This is one reason for the unstability in habs play. The Kovy line just found some kind of confidence, too bad we have to wait if it they can clutch for a strech. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 The Kovy line just found some kind of confidence, too bad we have to wait if it they can clutch for a strech. Agreed. I must say that it was nice to see the Kovy line explode on Saturday night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Agreed. I must say that it was nice to see the Kovy line explode on Saturday night! I know, right after I called them out to my dad on the phone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 (edited) Right now my only concern is the Kostitsyn brothers. I'm sure Sergei will find his stride again but in the end he's a young kid playing on the 3rd line. I expect no more than 20 goals if anything. More worrying is Andrei. I'm not askng him to score every game, I'm just hoping we don't have another Zednik scenerio on our hands. Edited November 3, 2008 by ForumGhost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Right now my only concern is the Kostitsyn brothers. I'm sure Sergei will find his stride again but in the end he's a young kid playing on the 3rd line. I expect no more than 20 goals if anything. More worrying is Andrei. I'm not askng him to score every game, I'm just hoping we don't have another Zednik scenerio on our hands. It's too soon after the concussion to say this hit will change his career and the Zednik comparison is illogical because Zednik got hurt cutting to the net and then became too afraid to go there. Andrei got hit trying to get around someone on the boards, I don't see him developing any sort of paranoia. Sergei may very well get a taste of the minors if he stays in a slump but I don't think we'll have to think about that for another few games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted November 3, 2008 Share Posted November 3, 2008 Right now my only concern is the Kostitsyn brothers. I'm sure Sergei will find his stride again but in the end he's a young kid playing on the 3rd line. I expect no more than 20 goals if anything. More worrying is Andrei. I'm not askng him to score every game, I'm just hoping we don't have another Zednik scenerio on our hands. Zednik HAD his BEST SEASON the year AFTER that hit. Andrei will be the type of player to have a better second half for most of his career. As for the concussion issue did you see his assist on the Plekanec goal? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 (edited) As for the concussion issue did you see his assist on the Plekanec goal? I was just about to mention that. AK46 pulled an amazing move to get by the d-man to feed Plex for his goal!! It was a beauty!! Right now my only concern is the Kostitsyn brothers. I'm sure Sergei will find his stride again Patience. If we can be patient with Latendresse, we can be patient with the Kostitsyn Brothers. We were patient with Komisarek, and he's become one of the more dominant d-men in the league. Even Max Lapierre has become a good player(perfect 4th line player). Edited November 4, 2008 by Habsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted November 4, 2008 Author Share Posted November 4, 2008 The Islanders once again tried to lose a game in which they had a three goal lead in the 3rd period. Fortunately for them, the Jackets suck even more than they do, so the Islanders pulled it out in OT. I hope Hitch and Howson are LOVING Christian Backman and Fedor Tyutin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFT77 Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 I was just about to mention that. AK46 pulled an amazing move to get by the d-man to feed Plex for his goal!! It was a beauty!! Patience. If we can be patient with Latendresse, we can be patient with the Kostitsyn Brothers. We were patient with Komisarek, and he's become one of the more dominant d-men in the league. Even Max Lapierre has become a good player(perfect 4th line player). Wow, it's crazy to listen to some of the negativity and panice surrounding some the the Habs players slow starts, mostly statistic-wise. The Habs are 8-1-1 and i don't believe that they have played close to their best hockey yet. Let's see how the boys do 15-20 games from now, hoping their health stays intact. Remember Higgins has only played 4 games and AK missed a couple. With the top 9 forwards intact it should be a potent offense. Their are gonna be times when a few forwards are not lighting it up, but at any one game any of them could score and put up some points. With Higgins-Lang-SKosty as the Habs so-called '3rd line.' Wow. Looks better than most teams 2nd line. As for a little concern, O'byrne has given me the most worry. But we have to remember that he is a d-man and barely played 30 games last season. Let's give him time to develop and Carbo has the luxury of playing him 10-15 minutes a game rotating in and out with Breezer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 (edited) It's kind of funny that every time I dare disagree with a decision from either Carbonneau or Gainey, many members on this forum reply by saying something in the line of "they are hockey God's that know hockey a lot more than you do", but now that Carbonneau decided to drop Latendresse from the Koivu line, many of those members are now saying that it's ridiculous and undeserved... I guess Carbonneau only knows hockey when he agrees with you guys. Anyways... I do agree however that criticizing Latendresse at this point is just silly, and suggesting he should be sent down is even more ridiculous for the very simple reason that he would need to clear waivers; I do believe that Latendresse needed time in Hamilton last year, but now it's too late, and we have to make the best of this situation. Latendresse isn't playing well, at least not anywhere near as well on the ice as his paper statistics would indicate, however he's working hard, and is far from being mediocre or a hurdle for the team. He's currently a non-factor once again, consistency is definitely one of his biggest problems, and a change could be what he needs at this time. With the lines producing one at a time so far this season, Carbonneau cannot afford his best duo to be slowed down by Latendresse, and by the same token it could also help the third line which is not currently producing much either. Besides, Latendresse is now being "demoted" to a line with the talented and offensive-minded Robert Lang and Sergei Kostsitsyn, there's no reason why he can't play very well, and contribute to the success of that line, which on any given night could be the best for the Habs. The only difference is that he might now get as many "ghost" points as he did playing with top offensive veterans such as Koivu and Tanguay. Edited November 4, 2008 by CerebusClone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 (edited) It's kind of funny that every time I dare disagree with a decision from either Carbonneau or Gainey, many members on this forum reply by saying something in the line of "they are hockey God's that know hockey a lot more than you do", but now that Carbonneau decided to drop Latendresse from the Koivu line, many of those members are now saying that it's ridiculous and undeserved... I guess Carbonneau only knows hockey when he agrees with you guys. I'm not saying that I agree with this move, but who knows? Maybe the change will be beneficial for both guys! In the end, if higgins doesn't put up numbers on the first line, I'd rather see Latendresse there, cause he's alot bigger, and can create some breathing room for Koivu and Tanguay(which Guillaume has done well up to now this season!) I do believe that Latendresse needed time in Hamilton last year, but now it's too late, and we have to make the best of this situation. Agreed! Latendresse could have used a little time in Hamilton last year, but it's too late for that. Let's move forward! Edited November 4, 2008 by Habsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted November 4, 2008 Share Posted November 4, 2008 Wow, it's crazy to listen to some of the negativity and panice surrounding some the the Habs players slow starts, mostly statistic-wise. The Habs are 8-1-1 and i don't believe that they have played close to their best hockey yet. Let's see how the boys do 15-20 games from now, hoping their health stays intact. Remember Higgins has only played 4 games and AK missed a couple. I fully agree that there's no reason to pacic, however as you mentionned the team is not playing all that well, and that is a source of concern. Carbonneau needs to get his highly talented team working like a well-oiled machine because luck won't be on our side forever, and we won't last long in the playoffs playing like we have in the last few games. Also I don't think we should just use the "wait and see" approach, that's what poor leaders do, and more often than not they wait too long, and end up having to make major changes while in panic mode (like Carbonneau did his first year as head coach). Carbonneau needs to analyze what's not going so well, and take preventative action, maybe we need to tweak the lineup a little bit, maybe we need to adjust the system and/or the way it is instructed to players ... or maybe it really is a simple matter of time and patience until the lines solidy their chemistry (after we had many injuries during training camp). One thing is for sure, the team is not playing as well as it should on the ice, and the sooner you identify a problem, the easier it is to fix... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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