THIS gets Avery suspended!

[Peter Puck]

Well I guess the Avery incident is useful for something. It appears that a number of HW posters could learn something from this. You may think this is fine and you may think you hear this sort of language on TV all the time.

If you think this you should let Avery's trouble teach you a lesson. This sort of lanuage and behaviour is not acceptable. If you were to engage it this at your job it is very possible you would find yourself fired. You may not think this is fair but it is the way the world works. I'm guessing that Avery thought it was okay behaviour but he is learning that it is not.

Edited December 5, 2008 by Peter Puck

[BTH]

Are you trying to make a point here? I said for me personally, it's most offensive. This topic is about Avery and what he said. If there was a topic about someone else saying something similar, I'd feel the same way.

In every single one of my posts I said I wasn't referring to Avery himself, only the reactions that the words are totally unacceptable despite worse things being said both in everyday conversation and directly to reporters. You ignore this and continue to argue against a stand I never took. And then when you finally understand me you say.... "Are you trying to make a point here?" Yeah, this thread is about Avery but do you expect me to start a new thread about the term sloppy seconds just to make one comment? It's directly related to this thread, it belongs here. [/discussion]

Well I guess the Avery incident is useful for something. It appears that a number of HW posters could learn something from this. You may think this is fine and you may think you hear this sort of language on TV all the time.

If you think this you should let Avery's trouble teach you a lesson. This sort of lanuage and behaviour is not acceptable. If you were to engage it this at your job it is very possible you would find yourself fired. You may not think this is fair but it is the way the world works. I'm guessing that Avery thought it was okay behaviour but he is learning that it is not.

You need to differentiate between a normal person using the term "sloppy seconds" to his friend with a hockey player calling some reporters over and saying it to the cameras.

In the first situation, as I was saying to Jets, it isn't unacceptable at all. Or if it is, then it is no less acceptable then 50+ other terms that are used far more often. The fact that you might not (it really depends on your boss) be able to say it to your boss doesn't say all that much. If your boss hates insults, then there are plenty of other terms that would upset him/her that are considered "acceptable" by society.

In the second scenario, yeah, you can say it's unacceptable for a public figure to say something like that to the cameras. Sure, hand him a suspension. But if Avery (or any other public figure) uses the term in his own time, with his friends, it wouldn't change my opinion of him any more than it would to find out that he swears. (And you don't need to be pompous to make your point.)

[markierung]

(And you don't need to be pompous to make your point.)

BOOM DE AH DA

[jetsniper]

In every single one of my posts I said I wasn't referring to Avery himself, only the reactions that the words are totally unacceptable despite worse things being said both in everyday conversation and directly to reporters.

Thats not the point. The topic here is Avery saying sloppy seconds and everyone thinking it crossed the line. If worse things are said in the media, the same people are probably going to have a problem with that too but no examples have been brought up here or given the same media coverage. As such, we're just going to deal with the issue at hand for now. But like I said, different strokes for different folks.

You ignore this and continue to argue against a stand I never took. And then when you finally understand me you say.... "Are you trying to make a point here?" Yeah, this thread is about Avery but do you expect me to start a new thread about the term sloppy seconds just to make one comment? It's directly related to this thread, it belongs here. [/discussion]

Where did I ever say your comments were off-topic.

You said "and yet it's also derogatory to women" in a general sense, as if my comment somehow applied to everyone who thought Avery was wrong. I didn't get why you had to throw that last comment in there, it came off as snide to me.

And the only time I argued directly against Avery was when you referenced it first. I just went through all my posts in here and didn't see anything.

I hate when debates go in circles and start to get personal though so I'm out.

[MMPL]

Winning or losing or bystanding, debates are interesting. Anyone wanna start a poll on if they tink avery should have gotten suspended? Or should we just ignore the doucebag?

[Peter Puck]

Avery just got 6 games.

You need to differentiate between a normal person using the term "sloppy seconds" to his friend with a hockey player calling some reporters over and saying it to the cameras.

In the first situation, as I was saying to Jets, it isn't unacceptable at all. Or if it is, then it is no less acceptable then 50+ other terms that are used far more often. The fact that you might not (it really depends on your boss) be able to say it to your boss doesn't say all that much. If your boss hates insults, then there are plenty of other terms that would upset him/her that are considered "acceptable" by society.

In the second scenario, yeah, you can say it's unacceptable for a public figure to say something like that to the cameras. Sure, hand him a suspension. But if Avery (or any other public figure) uses the term in his own time, with his friends, it wouldn't change my opinion of him any more than it would to find out that he swears. (And you don't need to be pompous to make your point.)

I understand perfect well that a person using crude language to his friends is common and not really a problem. My point is that some of the responses here suggest that people are surprised that he is going to be suspended for it. For example, take a look at the thread title. No one should be surprised by this.

Also it doesn't really depend upon the boss. My boss and I might think this sort of comment was okay between ourselves (and it probably is at a bar) in the office lounge. But if one of my female co-workers overhears it, both my boss and I might be out on our asses.

[kenadian]

From the CBC's "The Instigator"

[Easy Ryder]

Nothing wrong there, if Avery needs psychological help Bettman needs some too.

They should go in together. Same ego problem.

As for the sloppy second comment it's just a reality, almost everybody's wife or husband is someone

else sloppy second. Just think about it, remember your/her past. Doesn't mean it should go public but

when you are a celibrity everything is public.

[habscout]

Today, this rumour came out that Hull may indeed lose his job as co-GM; it sounds like he'll be "demoted" to another position in the organization. Given the source of the article is Ken Campbell, senior writer for The Hockey News, I believe it's pretty likely this will come true. Hull went to bat for the team to sign Avery as a highly overpaid shift disturber; I've heard other reports that Les Jackson was against the signing. I have to believe that the fact that both players were teammates in Detroit for parts of two seasons may have clouded Hull judgment.

Now, that bad judgment has given Dallas the biggest hockey cancer since Ray Emery, at the cost of the remaining $15.5M over 4 seasons. Dallas will have a tough time finding an AHL team to pawn Avery off to; I've already heard that Manitoba, who Dallas has dealt with in the past, wants nothing to do with him.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/2100...Stars-coGM.html

Edited December 10, 2008 by habscout

[MAK]

Hull shouldn't have been there in the 1st place. one loud mouth dragging donw another one !!

Can we talk about Sundin instead ??

[CerebusClone]

Today, this rumour came out that Hull may indeed lose his job as co-GM; it sounds like he'll be "demoted" to another position in the organization. Given the source of the article is Ken Campbell, senior writer for The Hockey News, I believe it's pretty likely this will come true. Hull went to bat for the team to sign Avery as a highly overpaid shift disturber; I've heard other reports that Les Jackson was against the signing. I have to believe that the fact that both players were teammates in Detroit for parts of two seasons may have clouded Hull judgment.

Now, that bad judgment has given Dallas the biggest hockey cancer since Ray Emery, at the cost of the remaining $15.5M over 4 seasons. Dallas will have a tough time finding an AHL team to pawn Avery off to; I've already heard that Manitoba, who Dallas has dealt with in the past, wants nothing to do with him.

http://www.thehockeynews.com/articles/2100...Stars-coGM.html

I still think the Stars are using this as an opportunity to use Sean Avery as their whipping boy, a face for the the source of all their problems. Marty Turco is mediocre... Sean Avery. Mike Ribeiro is doing nothing good this season despite logging massive ice-time... Sean Avery. Management has over-evaluated players and let go of strong depth players... Sean Avery. The true core players of this team such as Zubov and Morrow missed a lot of action... Sean Avery.

Locker room cancer my a*s... they're putting all the blame on Sean Avery, an easy target, and hoping that by getting rid of this symbolic figure the team will regroup, and start playing good hockey again. What's amusing is that Sean Avery is one of the only Stars players who was actually doing his job on the ice, he was being his agitating self, was almost the only forward with a positive +/-, and was contributing offensive at a pace of 35-40 points.

[Mont Royale]

I still think the Stars are using this as an opportunity to use Sean Avery as their whipping boy, a face for the the source of all their problems. Marty Turco is mediocre... Sean Avery. Mike Ribeiro is doing nothing good this season despite logging massive ice-time... Sean Avery. Management has over-evaluated players and let go of strong depth players... Sean Avery. The true core players of this team such as Zubov and Morrow missed a lot of action... Sean Avery.

Locker room cancer my a*s... they're putting all the blame on Sean Avery, an easy target, and hoping that by getting rid of this symbolic figure the team will regroup, and start playing good hockey again. What's amusing is that Sean Avery is one of the only Stars players who was actually doing his job on the ice, he was being his agitating self, was almost the only forward with a positive +/-, and was contributing offensive at a pace of 35-40 points.

Yep, it's all a conspiracy. From the owner to the GMs to the coaches to the players - obviously they're all in on it, as they won't support him. Nothing wrong with Avery. He happens to be on his 4th team in 6.5 seasons (soon to be 5th, perhaps), but all those teams made mistakes. He's a great teammate and is just misunderstood.

[CerebusClone]

Yep, it's all a conspiracy. From the owner to the GMs to the coaches to the players - obviously they're all in on it, as they won't support him. Nothing wrong with Avery. He happens to be on his 4th team in 6.5 seasons (soon to be 5th, perhaps), but all those teams made mistakes. He's a great teammate and is just misunderstood.

First I didn't say any of that... simply that the Stars are taking the easy way out, and blaming all of their problems on an easy target. I hope it works for them, but I don't think Avery is to blame for the Stars being so awful this season. Mostly I think they are overrated, and nowhere near the team they were last year, especially not with injuries to their two best leaders, Zubov and and Morrow. They're better than they've been so far, but this is a team that will fight for a playoff spot, not a contender.

Second nothing is wrong with Sean Avery. The guy is being himself, this is not a case of Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde... this is the very same Sean Avery as the last few years. People may not like him, teams may not want him... and if that's the case he'll simply end up never playing in the NHL again. But if you acquire Avery, don't complain because he said something inappropriate...

[CerebusClone]

Just to get you guys’ opinion on something. Basically a few months ago people made a very big deal out of Sean Avery’s comments – during an interview with ESPN, so nothing to do with a locker-room or an official league event – regarding the inadequate marketing efforts of the NHL, and how it should spend so much efforts marketing boring nice guys like Jarome Iginla. Many called him stupid, ignorant, a disgrace and a whole lot of thing that are probably even worse than whatever he says during interviews.

Today during lunch I was reading the Journal de Montreal, and found this quote from Guy Carbonneau as he responded to Pat Quinn’s comments about hockey in Quebec: « Il n’est pas vrai que le hockey junior est pire qu’ailleurs. Tant qu’il n’y aura pas de dirigeants québécois dans les équipes de la LNH, les joueurs du circuit Courteau seront moins nombreux que ceux des deux autres ligues au Canada ».

In English, Carbonneau is saying that junior hockey in Quebec isn’t any worse than anywhere else, and that as long as there won’t be Quebeckers managing NHL teams, there will be fewer players from the QMJHL than from the WHL and the OHL. In other words Carbonneau is calling out the NHL, and saying that its managers are biased against Quebec players.

Now regardless of whether we agree with that statement or not, isn’t just as “bad” if not even worse than Sean Avery’s comments? If a big deal was made about a player criticizing the league for its marketing efforts, shouldn’t it be a very big deal that a head coach is calling the league biased against some players?

Personally I couldn’t care less, I think both Avery and Carbonneau are entitled to their opinions. All I’m saying is that if you are going criticize a player for bad mouthing the league, you should probably do the same about a head coach doing the same...

[Colin]

Ah, but as you said, "In other words". Carbo didn't come out and say anything specifically. There is a difference.

Incidentally, I think there is a large difference in the quality coming out of Quebec over the other two major junior leagues. The Q emphasizes attack where the others emphasize a more rounded game. Since the NHL wants defensively responsible players, it's no surprise the Q isn't as well represented. Perhaps they should stop looking at the free-wheeling and completely unrealistic model of the firewagon Habs of the late 70's and get with the times.

On the other hand, I think that style results in improved goaltending from the Q. They see far more rubber far earlier in their careers and therefore progress more rapidly. So while the NHL is repleat with Q goaltending, the defensively berift skaters are less represented.