alexstream Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 This is very ugly. The part circled in red. One has a A on his jersey and was labeled as captain material at a certain point. One tossed Koivu as the #1 center last season... Two were a dynamic, exciting duo, when randomly or purposely together on the ice. One of which was deemed to be the heir to lord Kovalev. That is very ugly. I was trying to get up to date with stats.. and I just freaked out. The other ugly part is that OUR BEST SCORER IS A DEFENSEMAN. Kuddos Andrei Markov... but BOOOOOH to the rest of them!!! Do they realise that all of them, elite forwards, are passed by a guy, who most of the time, plays from 50 feet away from the net!!! Ok, Andrei is surely one of the best dman in the league... But so are supposed to be Kov, Kost, Koi, Tangs, at their respective position etc. This sucks man. If they ever kill my illegal image hosting (they said "DO NOT USE THAT LINK"), here is the legal version : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Amen. What save this team is the trap and Price. Most of the point have to come from the power play. What power play ?? This where they screw every opportunity and poor man Meszaros look like Lidsstrom and Chara together. Ugly is the word for power play. Dull play is the way they win games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blaze53 Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Totally agreed, just imagine how unstoppable Montreal would be if all these players were producing to their full potential.. Amen. What save this team is the trap and Price. Most of the point have to come from the power play. What power play ?? This where they screw every opportunity and poor man Meszaros look like Lidsstrom and Chara together. Ugly is the word for power play. Dull play is the way they win games. We need Streit back haha Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 It would take a lot more fire power than Streit to make these guy on the power play produce. Streit is just another softie that make these softy guys even softier than they are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Amen. What save this team is the trap and Price. Most of the point have to come from the power play. What power play ?? This where they screw every opportunity and poor man Meszaros look like Lidsstrom and Chara together. Ugly is the word for power play. Dull play is the way they win games. I'm not sure I understand what you are saying? Are you saying that most of their pointsare coming from the power play or that most of their points should come from the power play? Right now the Habs get 22.5% of their goals from the power play (about 20th in PPG/GP). Boston gets 25% of their goals from the power play, Detroit gets about 33% of their goals from the power play, San Jose and Washington get about 30% of their goal from the PP. Montreal should definitely be getting more of its points from the power play, but certainly not most. The Power Play is definitely a problem right now. Unlike last year, however, Montreal is actually a very good 5 on 5 team. Montreal is 4th in GF/GA at 5 on 5 (1.3 goals per goal against, 52 GF, 40 GA), acheived by being a middle of the road offensive team and a top defensive team. If they could have had their PP% around 20%+ they could very well have another 4 or 5 points - if they could bring back last year's PP they could very be tops in the NHL . The season is far from over, and I personally think some of their season numbers are deceptively bad because their weak November. The next few weeks will probably not be all that great thanks to all the injuries, but it is important to remember that the Canadiens (with all their bad play, having played through injuries to Komisarek and Higgins) have the 4th best winning percentage in the NHL*. The Canadiens are not a perfect team, but compared to the rest of the NHL they are a very, very good one. It is quite possible that we will see a trade to improve the PP or shore up the defense (a Bouwmeester move would do both) that could turn the team from a very good team to a true cup defender. The team will likely continue to have inconsistent play as players heal up - but they will most likely stay in playoff position. Assuming that the team in April has the majority of our roster players back (and especially if there is a midseason or deadline deal for an extra piece) it is likely that our record will imply a poorer squad than will actually play. *For numbers nerds -> A statistic designed for baseball called Pythagenpat thinks about 5% of the habs' winning percentage is thanks to good luck. I think it is due to the exigencies of the 3pt system of OTLs - Pythagenpat thinks the habs' winning percentage should be 61%, the habs are at 67%. They have a 63% win in non-overtime games. They have a 60% win rate, 62.5% point rate, in non-shootout games (probably the best predictor for future performance consider the apparently random effect of shootouts). One shouldn't directly compare this "pure" winning percentage to other teams' actual winning percentages as their win percentages don't strip out overtime and/or shootouts. Jeff Sagarin predicts, based on a 0pt OTL/strength of schedule/margin of win weighted calculation that the habs are the 9th best team in the NHL, 4th in the east, with a future prediction (based purely goal margin) of being the #8 team in the NHL. I think his Strength of Schedule metric is severely flawed and devalues eastern conference teams (I told him so and he basically called me a moron), but it is a worthwhile read nonetheless - http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/nhl0809.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMPL Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 (edited) When did Chipchura play?? Edited December 13, 2008 by MMPL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markierung Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Chill Out man. The team is playing well. And Andrei is picking it up again. And he's a plus 9! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 One has a A on his jersey and was labeled as captain material at a certain point. One tossed Koivu as the #1 centre last season... Two were a dynamic, exciting duo, when randomly or purposely together on the ice. One of which was deemed to be the heir to lord Kovalev. This sucks man. true. He is slowly killing my fantasy pool. I really thought he would have 25+ points so far. Huge disapointment, maybe the biggest of any. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMPL Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 Chill Out man. The team is playing well. And Andrei is picking it up again. And he's a plus 9! The reason he is plus 9 is because he is one of the few who plays the PP, and not the PK. That's why I hate plus/minus, it always favors PP players and gives a disadvantage ot PKers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 The reason he is plus 9 is because he is one of the few who plays the PP, and not the PK. That's why I hate plus/minus, it always favors PP players and gives a disadvantage ot PKers. There's no +/- given for a powerplay goal, so no, it doesn't favour PP guys and hurt SH guys (they get a +/- if they score a goal, but not allow one.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmethead Posted December 13, 2008 Share Posted December 13, 2008 The reason he is plus 9 is because he is one of the few who plays the PP, and not the PK. That's why I hate plus/minus, it always favors PP players and gives a disadvantage ot PKers. Consider this a free lesson... Wikipedia Plus/Minus Definition Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 I agree with the exception of Andrei Kostsitsyn. I think he's played much better than his stats would indicate, and that he was very unlucky earlier this season. There are a few adjustments to be made obviously - motsly I think he needs to take charge, and become the leader on the ice that he can be - and now that he's not playing with Kovalev he'll get a better chance to do this. All the elements are there, he just needs to put it all together. As for Higgins and Plekanec, again I think they were overrated by many people. I think they are great all-around players who can be terrific assets when used in the proper role (as strong 2-way players), and not put in situations where they need to lead the offense. They'll always have their hot streaks, but they just don't have the skills to be everyday key point-producers. Finally about Sergei Kostsitsyn, many expect a lot from him this season, which is a little unfair considering he doesn't even have the equivalent of a full NHL season worth of experience. Like Latendresse, the important thing in his case is not how many points he gives us, but the quality of his play. He started the season very well, displaying great chemistry with Lang, and lately he's done very little. It's normal to have ups and downs at this point, but we need to get him back to where he was before. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMPL Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 (edited) There's no +/- given for a powerplay goal, so no, it doesn't favour PP guys and hurt SH guys (they get a +/- if they score a goal, but not allow one.) Wow, I did not know that Well I change my thoughts on the stat now Edited December 14, 2008 by MMPL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 There's no +/- given for a powerplay goal, so no, it doesn't favour PP guys and hurt SH guys (they get a +/- if they score a goal, but not allow one.) Actually it's the opposite... playing on the powerplay can only hurt your +/- while killing penalties can only help... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 (edited) It's funny...all the attention and criticism is being directed at Kovalev, but the far more fundamental problem we face is precisely what you've identified here. Every single young player who did so excellently last season has regressed rather massively this season. The only exceptions are Price, who's been just great, and possibly Kostysin the elder, who has actually played pretty well over the last couple of weeks, whatever the numbers say. Even Komisarek was sketchy before he went down. We can't have 5 or 6 important parts of last season's core lose the thread that badly without suffering. What's actually rather impressive is that we have a pretty decent record despite this; for which we can thank Gainey's excellent off-season moves (Tanguay and Lang, who have become two absolute necessities given the regression of these other players). My question is, how come other teams, like Boston and Chicago and Colorado, etc., seem to get these young players who step in and become good, more or less right away, while we have these stops and starts (Higgins, Pleks) and frustrating hiccups (Sergei Kostysin) and flatliners (Lats)? Or am I just overestimating other teams' young players? Edited December 14, 2008 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 It's funny...all the attention and criticism is being directed at Kovalev, but the far more fundamental problem we face is precisely what you've identified here. Every single young player who did so excellently last season has regressed rather massively this season. The only exceptions are Price, who's been just great, and possibly Kostysin the elder, who has actually played pretty well over the last couple of weeks, whatever the numbers say. Even Komisarek was sketchy before he went down. We can't have 5 or 6 important parts of last season's core lose the thread that badly without suffering. What's actually rather impressive is that we have a pretty decent record despite this; for which we can thank Gainey's excellent off-season moves (Tanguay and Lang, who have become two absolute necessities given the regression of these other players). My question is, how come other teams, like Boston and Chicago and Colorado, etc., seem to get these young players who step in and become good, more or less right away, while we have these stops and starts (Higgins, Pleks) and frustrating hiccups (Sergei Kostysin) and flatliners (Lats)? Or am I just overestimating other teams' young players? It's difficult to say, we can also wonder how the kids could do well while Kovalev, the leader and main puck carrier on his line, keeps turning the puck over so much. He's constantly making the wrong choices, and trying to do too much by himself. I've often said that in my opinion Kovalev's real problem has always been a lack of hockey sense. He has all the skills a player could hope for, but he can't use them right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 It's difficult to say, we can also wonder how the kids could do well while Kovalev, the leader and main puck carrier on his line, keeps turning the puck over so much. He's constantly making the wrong choices, and trying to do too much by himself. I've often said that in my opinion Kovalev's real problem has always been a lack of hockey sense. He has all the skills a player could hope for, but he can't use them right. This may be true (I think it describes Kovalev when he's "off" his game more than when he's "on" it). But I'm not sure we can blame Kovalev for the general regression of our young players. Plekanec is no longer on his line. He's still playing like a dog. Higgins's struggles had nothing to do with Kovalev as far as I can see. Sergei K. just seems to have lost the plot. O'Bryne went from effective to disastrous, hardly Kovy's fault. And why wasn't Komisarek playing as well as last season before *he* got hurt? Etc. I may be underestimating the impact of Kovalev's struggles (and it's worth noting that the guy has 22 points in 28 games - not great, but as good or better than the vaunted Tanguay and Koivu; a couple of multi-point games and Kovy will be back on a PPG pace; plus he has been playing better of late. Which is to say that I'm not convinced he is the whole, or even the primary, problem). My question - admittedly born of frustation as much as analysis - remains. How come teams like Boston and Chicago can have young guys step up and take over, and get better and better, while we seem perpetually to lurch around with young players who never seem quite ready to grab the bull by the horns? What the f*ck? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
House11 Posted December 14, 2008 Share Posted December 14, 2008 My question - admittedly born of frustation as much as analysis - remains. How come teams like Boston and Chicago can have young guys step up and take over, and get better and better, while we seem perpetually to lurch around with young players who never seem quite ready to grab the bull by the horns? What the f*ck? In my opinion ... It's the system. I think the trap is killing this team. Arn't they supposed to be an uptempo agressive transitional team ? Why sit back and wait for the oppontents to come to you. Arn't the Habs supposed to be the best skating team in the leauge ? Why not attack the other team all over the ice and make them turn the puck over. Didn't BG say that this team would be and exciting team ? I haven't seen it yet. Last nights game against the Caps was ugly ... passes were not crisp, players were mishandling passes, bad decisions, taking way to many shots with no one near the goalie for a screen, Kovy being a douche and taking bad penalties, sitting back way too much and letting the Caps dump, chase and pound the Defense. They were forcing the Habs D-man to either clear it up the boards or make bad outlet passes by being so aggressive on the forcheck. This is why O'Byrne had such a bad game .. he can't pass or dump up the board properly ...The reason the 4th line is doing so well is because they're doing the same thing the caps are doing ... being aggressive. As for Boston and Chicago's young guys ... look at where the good ones were drafted ... Kane #1 Taves #4 ... Wheeler #5 Kessel #5 etc ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easy Ryder Posted December 15, 2008 Share Posted December 15, 2008 Carbo need support from his GM. Kids cannot solve this mess. Whatever is needed to stop this. We all see whats ugly. Just differing on where it's most. End of comments for me until something worth it, so long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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