MAK Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 (edited) Trade deadline coming, Gainey has made his wish list. Its all about dealing with the other GM. What are the 5 assests that Gainey isn't willing to deal ?? If I were him, here's who'd I'd never deal. -Pacioretty -Mcdonagh -Markov -Komisarek -Emelin I would have a hard time letting a 1st rounder go(given that the draft is in mtl) but for a lecavalier I'd be willing. Edited January 15, 2009 by marky_and_komi Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Price Markov Komisarek Andrei Kostitsyn Pacioretty McDonagh damn close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trizzak Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I think everyone's list is going to say Price and Markov, so who are your 3 OTHER untouchables? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 I think everyone's list is going to say Price and Markov, so who are your 3 OTHER untouchables? Title changed switched Price for Emelin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Ok, let's all agree on these 3 1- Komisarek (real heart of this team) 2- Price (potential franchise player) 3- Markov (top 10 D in the league) After that, I'm thinking long-term value (potential & rarity. You dont trade something that's hard to come by) 1- Pacioretty (size, skills and speed are so hard to find) 2- A. Kostitsyn (guy is only starting to scratch the surface of his talent) 3- Latendresse (same as Pacioretty, minus some speed) 4- Lapierre (6-2 right-shooting 2-way C with speed who can be pests? Not that many around) 5- S. Kostitsyn (smart & skilled players who have his feistiness can develop into awesome players with maturity) I'm not putting McDo or any other youngsters in the list because, frankly, they are bargaining chips. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 Ok, let's all agree on these 3 1- Komisarek (real heart of this team) 2- Price (potential franchise player) 3- Markov (top 10 D in the league) After that, I'm thinking long-term value (potential & rarity. You dont trade something that's hard to come by) 1- Pacioretty (size, skills and speed are so hard to find) 2- A. Kostitsyn (guy is only starting to scratch the surface of his talent) 3- Latendresse (same as Pacioretty, minus some speed) 4- Lapierre (6-2 right-shooting 2-way C with speed who can be pests? Not that many around) 5- S. Kostitsyn (smart & skilled players who have his feistiness can develop into awesome players with maturity) I'm not putting McDo or any other youngsters in the list because, frankly, they are bargaining chips. you wouldn't give Latendresse if Tampa asked for him in a trade for Lecavalier ??!! as long as Komisarek isn't signed, he's touchable. once he's signed he become a NO NO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 (edited) Why not separate NHL and AHL and make 3 more AHL picks? NHL: Markov Kosti1 Kosti2 Komi Lapierre AHL PK Subban Paccioretti* D'Agost* * = sometimes I know I am in the extreme minority on this but personally I would consider trading Price. Mind you I dont mean trading Price just for the sake of getting rid of him, because that would be silly. Price is still unproven at this point and its still not known if he will be the Roy, Fuhr, Brodeur shut everything down guy or the other type who only gets really close to winning but falls short. If some GM wants to give the Habs a crazy out of their mind return for Price I would definitely listen to the offer. If TB offered Vinny, Kane, and a shot at Taveres would you really not consider it? Edited January 15, 2009 by Sir_Boagalott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 Why not separate NHL and AHL and make 3 more AHL picks? Because they cant be all untouchable...Besides we dont have High end players in montreal either besides Markov and Price. if you want something big you need to give something big back...thats the whole point of me asking for only 5-6 assets. as we speak there are no untouchables in Hamilton. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Why not separate NHL and AHL and make 3 more AHL picks? NHL: Markov Kosti1 Kosti2 Komi Lapierre AHL PK Subban Paccioretti* D'Agost* * = sometimes I know I am in the extreme minority on this but personally I would consider trading Price. Mind you I dont mean trading Price just for the sake of getting rid of him, because that would be silly. Price is still unproven at this point and its still not known if he will be the Roy, Fuhr, Brodeur shut everything down guy or the other type who only gets really close to winning but falls short. I am not willing to take the chance of giving up a franchise player who will come back to kill us. I left the last line out cause it is silly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 If some GM wants to give the Habs a crazy out of their mind return for Price I would definitely listen to the offer. If TB offered Vinny, Kane, and a shot at Taveres would you really not consider it? For malkin, Fleury and staal I might listen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 you wouldn't give Latendresse if Tampa asked for him in a trade for Lecavalier ??!! Ideally, no. If TB says Latendresse absolutely must be part of the deal, then... I try to convince them otherwise! Well, Gretzky was traded twice, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFT77 Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 My Fab Five would be: Markov A.Kostitsyn S.Kostitsyn Pacioretty McDonaugh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 (edited) Pacioretty Koivu-- trading your captain in the 100aniversary season is a no-no Markov Komisarek A. Kostistsyn Edited January 15, 2009 by PMAC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Price Markov Hamrlik - we need D for the cup run Komisarek - ditto Koivu - he has a no trade clause Really though I don't think you can trade either Kostitsyn nor Pacioretty. Trading Latendresse would be a mistake since I doubt you would get much for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MMPL Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I really think we should keep Plex. When Koivu moves on, we don't have much left at centre. So Unless it is for a centre I'd say he's untouchable Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 THere are no untouchables Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
simonus Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 perhaps the better way of thinking about this is "who are the 5 most tradable players in the system." By this, I mean, who are the 5 players that would seek the highest return on the open market. In effect, these will be the players that as a GM, you'd be least likely to trade because of their high value. I am analyzing this from the point of view of a trade deadline deal. 1) Price - Already a franchise goalie and has a relatively cheap contract, . Very young and has yet to fully reach what seems like certain upside. 2) Markov. Is signed over the medium term and immediately becomes a top pairing d-man on any NHL team (except for maybe Anaheim). He isn't exactly a locker room leader, but he brings stability and order to any d cops. Still pretty young, has some of his peak ahead of him. 3) Komisarek. A big, young, defensive presence that many teams salivate over. He is a UFA, which limits the return one might see, but a Cup contender could easily absorb his (currently) small cap hit and dramatically improve the defensive quality of their team. The team that could field Komisarek as a 4th defender would probably be an instant cup favourite. 4) Koivu. Unlike Komisarek, a GM would be happy to see that Koivu's contract is expiring. A team would only need about 1.5-2M in cap space to absorb his remaining salary and they wouldn't have to worry about the long term implications of having Koivu on the roster. Koivu should not be the top centre on a team with cup aspirations, but as a veteran centre with playmaking ability, he would be a very desirable asset. Going forward, Koivu's value is questionable and he might not be willing to take a declining vet's contract (1-2 year deal at 3-4 mil). As a small guy with injury history, any GM has to worry about locking in Koivu over the long term. Koivu's open market value probably starts at about a 1st round pick + a med-high prospect. Since his market value is most probably below his value to Montreal, he is in effect untouchable. 5) McDonagh. No team needs McD for their cup run, but he is an asset that BG could potentially use to get a truly top tier player from a team looking to rebuild. While all prospects (especially those not yet in the AHL) are risky, McDonagh is the most enticing prospect in the system (Emelin doesn't have the offensive aspect to his game and his Russian contract situation makes him very risky for a team looking to restart immediately next season) and has the best chance of seducing an other team's GM into getting rid of their big-contract star in exchange for parts. McDonagh is the last on my list, because he is the one guy in my top 5 that would need to be paired up with another asset to get a good return. Think McDonagh + Plekanec (or Higgins, or other mid-level regular), or McDonagh + Halak + D'Agostini (the rebuild for the future special). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I believe it was Gainey who insinuated a day or so ago that everyone has a price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 I believe it was Gainey who insinuated a day or so ago that everyone has a price. It's obvious. But heck, we love our top 5 lists! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 (edited) 4- Lapierre (6-2 right-shooting 2-way C with speed who can be pests? Not that many around) This is why I have high hopes about Andrew Conboy. Now obviously he will never lead the league in scoring, but this is a guy who brings a little bit of just about everything. He's willing to be an enforcer and defend his teammates, he's a great locker room guy with leadership skills, he can be a pest, he brings that great combination of imposing size and skills, he's gritty, and most importantly he's a decent hockey player on whom his coaches at every level seem comfortable relying on for any game scenario (PP, PK, 5-on-5, crucial moments). Otherwsie to answer the question I would say: Price Komisarek Markov Pacioretty A. Kostsitsyn The first three are obvious. As for Pacioretty and Andrei Kostsitsyn, I think they have the potential to be special players, and I don't think we would get an equivalent return for their services. Other guys I would be reluctant to trade away are McDonagh, Stejskal, and Conboy for pretty much that same reason. I would also add Lapierre, Latendresse, and perhaps Chipchura. On the opposite, younger guys who might have some interesting value that I would be willing to trade are Higgins, Plekanec, Subban, Halak, Sergei Kostsitsyn, and O'Byrne. It's not that are aren't or can't become good players, they're just players I feel might be overrated, and who might be good trade bait for a better player. Edited January 15, 2009 by CerebusClone Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted January 15, 2009 Author Share Posted January 15, 2009 I have High hopes about Conboy. like you said he wil never be a top line players but he could become a legit 3rd-4th liner with toughness and speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 This is why I have high hopes about Andrew Conboy. Now obviously he will never lead the league in scoring, but this is a guy who brings a little bit of just about everything. He's willing to be an enforcer and defend his teammates, he's a great locker room guy with leadership skills, he can be a pest, he brings that great combination of imposing size and skills, he's gritty, and most importantly he's a decent hockey player on whom his coaches at every level seem comfortable relying on for any game scenario (PP, PK, 5-on-5, crucial moments). You basically described what "experts" have been saying about Chipchura for years, but we've yet to really see him put it all together yet... or before him Jason Ward, Turner Stevenson, Terry Ryan and that's just the Habs ones. That's why I'm always suspicious when I hear about these prospects kids who are supposedly these complete packages of skills and grit and character and etc. The NHL is such a high-level of quality, to be "good" at everything, a player really needs to be excellent at everything. That's why lot of those guys end up just being jack-of-all-trades but master-of-none. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 You basically described what "experts" have been saying about Chipchura for years, but we've yet to really see him put it all together yet... or before him Jason Ward, Turner Stevenson, Terry Ryan and that's just the Habs ones. That's why I'm always suspicious when I hear about these prospects kids who are supposedly these complete packages of skills and grit and character and etc. The NHL is such a high-level of quality, to be "good" at everything, a player really needs to be excellent at everything. That's why lot of those guys end up just being jack-of-all-trades but master-of-none. It's not quite the same however. Guys like Ward, Stevenson, Chounard, and Terry Ryan were mostly attractive because of their size and production at the junoor level, but weren't all that good overall. They were guys aiming for top offensive roles in the NHL, and they failed. I would put Andrew Conboy in the category of a Maxim Lapierre. These are guys that combine strong skating abilities, great size, as well as grit, which right there makes them interesting prospects. However everyone knows that these guys will likely never be more than 3rd and 4th liners, and therefore they come with lower expectations. Although they are slightly different players, my hopes and expectations for Andrew Conboy are the same I had for Lapierre, that he would become a great 4th liner, and perhaps a little more if he progresses really well. To me guys like Lapierre and hopefully Conboy are a big step up from the more tradionnal and limited 4th liners like Begin, Murray, Laraque, etc. They give you a lot more flexibility, they don't specialize in a single skill, they bring a lot more to the table, and you never have to worry about sending them on the ice (ex. unlike guys like Laraque or especially Ivanans who are barely tolerable as hockey players). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 To me guys like Lapierre and hopefully Conboy are a big step up from the more tradionnal and limited 4th liners like Begin, Murray, Laraque, etc. They give you a lot more flexibility, they don't specialize in a single skill, they bring a lot more to the table, and you never have to worry about sending them on the ice (ex. unlike guys like Laraque or especially Ivanans who are barely tolerable as hockey players). Yep. I think guys like Lapierre are a sort of hybrid breed between smart, talented and sometimes nasty top defensive specialists like Carbo, Tikkanen, Peca, Lethinen; and those physical grinding energy 4th liners. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 My top 5 untoucheables would be(Price is obviously number 1, but we were told not to include him) 1- Komisarek: We've been waiting for a big, strong d-man on this team for 20 years...we won't trade him now that he's about to reach his peak! 2- Markov: a Top 10 maybe even top 5 d-man in the League. The QB on our PP. Enough said. 3- AK46: Andrei has the potential to become a 40 goal scorer. he has the skills, the speed and the size to become a true superstar. 4- Pacioretty: The potential to becoming a true Power forward is there with this kid...need I say more? 5- I'd like to put McDonough as my number 5, but he's still pretty far away from the NHL...anything can happen. So as my #5 pick I'll go with.....Emelin. This kid is supposed to be the Best d-man in the world who isn't in the NHL. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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