BTH Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 Certainly, a no. 5 draft choice should have far more potential than a no. 271 -- everything else being equal. However, the minor leagues are littered with first-round picks who didn't live up to their potential. Even first overall is far from being a guaranteed franchise player. At draft time, scouts are trying to judge the future potential of an 18-year-old kid, and that is not an exact science. Six years after Halak was drafted, and four years after Price, is it still as clear a difference as it was? Might Halak not have turned out as well, or better, than some first-rounders from that year? Take a look at the top 10 from that year? 1. Marc-Andre Fleury 2. Eric Staal 3. Nathan Horton 4. Nikolai Zherdev 5. Thomas Vanek 6. Milan Michalek 7. Ryan Suter 8. Braydon Coburn 9. Dion Phaneuf 10. Andrei Kostitsyn Hmmm ... Are you insinuating that Halak is better than some of those players? All ten of those players are out of Halak's league, as well as almost the entire rest of that first round. The gap has closed since they were both 18 but it's still significant. Price is already a far better and far more experienced goalie despite being two years younger than Halak. Some 5th overall picks never make it... but Price is making it. He isn't a bust - if anything, he's ahead of the curve and ahead of anything we could have expected from him up to this point. Taking our sights off him now for Halak? Taking our sights off Price as our eventual franchise goaltender is the single worst move the franchise can do. For the moment, keep playing Halak but never forget who our starter needs to eventually be. Giving Halak the permanent starting job is a horrible use/waste of resources that may take years to recover from. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted March 1, 2009 Share Posted March 1, 2009 I guess Price now knows how Huet felt last year when people ignored him in a rush to anoint the "next one".... I am loving Halak's performance, but he hasn't show me that he can be a number 1 guy, or a playoff guy. Either has Price to be honest. We should hope Price gets going again and these two push each other. I consider us to be playing a tandem now, with the hot hand getting most games, until they go cold.. by the end of March, that hand could be Price's again... We can like both you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted March 1, 2009 Author Share Posted March 1, 2009 Besides, Halak will probably become a pretty good NHL starter but Price's potential is undeniably higher: he can become a franchise goaltender and possibly the best goalie in the league in up to five years. We chose Price with the 5th pick because Timmins thought he was the final player remaining with the potential to become a franchise player. Had we wanted a team full of solid players with no real leader (as we have now), we'd have drafted Kopitar, Brule, Staal or Bourdon. But we went for the home run and Price is the one piece in our organization that can ensure that we remain a good team for the next decade or more. Our highest priority should be ensuring that Price hits his potential. That really doesnt mean jack... That line of logic is what made Milbury trade Luongo in favor of DiPietro. The other examples have been repeated enough times. Hasek, Kipper, Giggy, Bryzgalov, Vokoun, etc. The highest priority isnt for Price to hit his highest potential. That's Price's priority. The Habs' highest priority is to make sure they have a reliable top-end goalie for the future. Long term potential is when you draft and develop players in minor league. At this point, those matter a little less and results a whole lot more. I dont know if people remember, but back when they were minor leaguers, it was Mathieu Garon that was supposed to become the Habs' future #1 and Theodore was just an after-thought. Saw how it changed? I'll be the first one that'll be happy if Price reaches his (possibly overrated) potential, but he's been handed enough things on a silverplate. And often it shows in his careless demeanor. He needs to learn to compete for real, to stop taking things for granted. To keep treating Price with kids gloves because of his draft rank and minor league resume only further allows him to take his NHL success for granted, as if it was owed to him. The complete opposite needs to be done. So the pressure will come from inside, not from outside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 That really doesnt mean jack... That line of logic is what made Milbury trade Luongo in favor of DiPietro. The other examples have been repeated enough times. Hasek, Kipper, Giggy, Bryzgalov, Vokoun, etc. The highest priority isnt for Price to hit his highest potential. That's Price's priority. The Habs' highest priority is to make sure they have a reliable top-end goalie for the future. Long term potential is when you draft and develop players in minor league. At this point, those matter a little less and results a whole lot more. I dont know if people remember, but back when they were minor leaguers, it was Mathieu Garon that was supposed to become the Habs' future #1 and Theodore was just an after-thought. Saw how it changed? I'll be the first one that'll be happy if Price reaches his (possibly overrated) potential, but he's been handed enough things on a silverplate. And often it shows in his careless demeanor. He needs to learn to compete for real, to stop taking things for granted. To keep treating Price with kids gloves because of his draft rank and minor league resume only further allows him to take his NHL success for granted, as if it was owed to him. The complete opposite needs to be done. So the pressure will come from inside, not from outside. Agreed.. I still think trading Huet was a huge mistake.. should have kept him for the playoffs and then let him go. I still think it did more harm to Price then good putting our season on his shoulders last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I think trading Huet was the right move. It was important for Price to get that playoff experience, and to know what it felt like being the starter for the stretch. No matter what, he would have had to go through it all eventually so it was great he got that experience so early in his career. He flopped. He has struggled much of this year. Its called rushing a young goalie. Many never recover. I hope he recovers, but handing him the reigns without a safety net is not a good strategy. It would be different if we scraped into the playoffs with few expectations. Instead, we were the top seed and the pressure was enormous. I can't remember another team in that position who tossed the keys to a first year goalie unless it was due to injury or the starter tanking. Coming in with no expectations is a completely different story then what happened to Price last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 He's only struggled since he was injured. He was fantastic as normal all season before that. He hasn't flopped yet. What about Kipper? He 'flopped' at the beginning of the year, and look where he is now. Even Luongo 'flopped' coming off his injury. It's called a rough patch, and every goalie, young or old, goes through them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 He's only struggled since he was injured. He was fantastic as normal all season before that. He hasn't flopped yet. What about Kipper? He 'flopped' at the beginning of the year, and look where he is now. Even Luongo 'flopped' coming off his injury. It's called a rough patch, and every goalie, young or old, goes through them. He flopped in the playoffs last year. As I said, I don't think he is screwed, but last year was not a good move, imo. Worse, I believe we would have beat Philly last year with Huet and Price in tandem.. then who knows... (probably lose to Detroit anyways). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I think they need to keep going with the hot hand. They aren't in a position to be able to even risk one game on saying if Price has got his game back. The have to make sure they get in the playoffs and get the best possible position and the race is too tight to give Price a chance unless Halak starts dropping the ball. I was pissed when Carbo played Huet over Halak on the last game against the leafs a couple of years ago when the habs got knocked out of the playoffs. halak kept them in the race and should have played that game. Besides, with goalies, you just never know. As much as Belfour likes to refer to Hasek as the guy who was his backup in Chicago, who would you rather have had in their prime??? I think we got to give Halak more of a chance this year AND next year - regardless if he doesn't stay as hot as he has been. As far as goalies go, I think you tell them both they have a shot at being number one at the start of the year and let their play dictate waht to doand then decide what to do. Having two stud goalies in their age group is a great position to be in. ANyone know when Halak is eligible for UFA status??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 (edited) For all that Carbo gets villainized around here and Gainey praised, it's worth noting that Carbo, not Gainey, may have been right about Price. Carbo's view was that Price should perhaps spend more time in the minors, and certainly that he needed more seasoning. Gainey's response was to agree that this was a sound general principle but that 'every rule has its exception.' He kept Price on the big team (only to send him down later) and eventually moved Huet to anoint him #1. Now in a sense they were both right. People seem to have completely forgotten that Price was fabulous down the stretch last season and tremendous for us all season long, until his injury. The Price boosters are entirely right to point out just how impressive those performances were for a player of that age, and in that market - they're historic performances, really. (Even Patrick Roy took a few seasons before he could produce the kind of reliable netminding Price gave us over those stretches). The fly in the ointment has been Price's weird propensity to collapse: once in his rookie year before he got sent down; again against Philly; and again after the All-Star break. It's as if he suddenly loses all confidence, forgets how to play goal. This is a bit unnerving, because it points to a more fragile psyche that you'd expect to see from a Franchise Player. (E.g., Carbo, again rightly, points out that many young players hit a wall eventually - his example being Sam Gagner; but if Price really is The Franchise, the comparable should be Crosby, and I don't recall his game heading south as catastrophically as Price's has for any length of time). Note that some 'great' goalies suffered this 'sudden collapse' syndrome all their lives. Tretiak and Dryden both went through dismal stretches (in Dryden's case, the 72 series and the 1979 playoffs come to mind; in Tretiak's, the 1980 Olympics). Maybe Price is one of those types of goalie. Or maybe it's just growing pains. In Price's case, part of Gainey's desire to hurry him along may have to do with cap considerations. I think he's decided Price has the cojones to survive the ups and downs and that this will free up cap space to spend in other positions. Would he do the same in the pre-cap model? Perhaps, but I highly doubt it. Finally: as great as Halak's been, no team can keep winning if they give up 40 shots a night. I am utterly baffled as to how a team that consistently kept opponents to 20-25 shots against before the All Star Break has suddenly forgotten how. The only explanations are injuries to Hamrlik and Komisarek. Bottom line: we were supposed to be contenders this season, goddamit, and here we are getting all excited by a hot goalie who is stealing games for us against teams that - if we were contenders - we wouldn't need to steal. I'm happy for the kid, but in the bigger picture, this sucks ass. Edited March 2, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 (edited) Price is a party animal because a picture of him with 3 cigarettes from Mexico in the summer surfaced? Nobody gave a shit that Lafleur was boozing on his way to Hart trophies, Conn Smyth trophies and Stanley Cups. Nobody gave a shit when Chelios was boozing and was winning Norris trophies and nobody gave a shit about Price drinking while dominating during the first 3 months of the season. Yawn. How boring and unoriginal. Short memories. The calling for heads when they slump to annointing superstars when they streak. The extremes on this board are ridiculous. Halak has had plenty of chances. How well did he play when Price was injured in January? How does 3.53 GAA with an .888 SV% How great was he when he was given the ball in Game 4 in Philadelphia? How does 3.08 GAA with an .880 SV% Halak is playing better than Price right now. Wow, 4 games. He was the better goalie all along! CC, I love your perspectives, but his comparable is not Crosby, no more than Roy's was Lemieux or Gretzky. Price is 21. Comparing Halak to him straight up right now is not the proper comparable. The proper comparable is 2 seasons ago. The season Halak almost SAVED their season. Look at his stats. They were meh, just like Price's this year. During the 16 game stretch he gave up 3 or more goals 11 times, in half of those games he had a sub .900 SV%. He did what you would expect from a 21 year old goalie making his NHL debut. So let's not create hyperbole about his accomplishments 2 seasons ago. As for Price being streaky, mentally weak, prone to collapse? Roy won the Cup in 1986 and was brutal for 5 of the next 6 playoffs. Anybody remember this beauty in Game 7? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAOFRure7Yo...rch?q=cam+neely A goal that made it 2-0 in a game they would lose 2-1? So mentally weak and prone to collapse that the geniuses of habs Nation wanted Andre Racicot to start the 1993 playoffs. If Halak becomes a star, that is great. But he has NEVER in the NHL dominated like Price did from last February to this December. Here is his chance. Let's see him run with it, I hope he does because the CREST will be the beneficiary. I love Carey Price, but I loved Roy more and I got over him being dealt. My loyaly is to the logo and if Halak is ultimately better than Price, great. But from what I have seen, four great games will not change my opinion that he is not. But please save the BS about opportunity. Last February Bob Gainey looked at his goaltending situation, saw a 32 year old about to make 5M+ and a 20 year old who dominated the juniors and the AHL and saw a 22 year old who dominated the AHL. He decided to hand the reigns to Price AND Halak. He went out of his way to mention Halak in the Huet trade press conference. Well Price was dominant to end the year, and to begin this year. He earned the benefit of the doubt that Carbo/Gainey provided this season. It is called loyalty, and it is a trait that should be admired. Loyalty looks past panic, unfortunately panic is prevalent on this board. Halak was not screwed, Halak was not wronged. Price earned it, he earned 8 games to regain his mojo. But Price shits the bed for 8 games and the fanbase rakes him through the coals? It is amazing how quickly Halak's shitty games have been swept under the rug in the last week. People wonder why Lecavalier/Briere etc are rumoured to not want to play in Montreal. Who created the expectations? The same BS has been going on with Latendresse for 3 seasons. A project player who has been ripped incessantly for being a project player who the fans created an unrealistic expectation for. BTH is 100% right, who cares who is playing better. I hope Halak plays great the rest of the season and when Price gets his chance I hope he returns to form. But ripping two kids for inconsistency at any time is ridiculous, patting yourself on the back with an I told you so after four games is just as inane. I am glad Halak has finally decided to play like an NHL goaltender. Maybe Price will have to worry about his job again. I for one am excited to see how Price rises to the challenge, not like he has never done it before. Edited March 2, 2009 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 100% agree on everything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I loled when someone said Price never sees the puck, but just waits for it to hit him. His puck tracking skills have been off and on, and I have seen cases where this is true, but when he was playing well this wasn't the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Halak has won 4 games in a row and now everyone is calling him the savior just like Priuce last year. Some of you guys are going nuts with this. Price is a good golalie, too much partying, immaturaty and an injury has slowed him down. Halak was good and bad at times this year and currently he is hot. The problem with this team is simply they a brutal in there own end, continually giving up 40 shots a night, goalies can't hang under that kind of pressure every night, Halak will slow down and Price will have to show if he has learned anything. Does anyonr think this team would be much better with other goalies? I don't think so. If Price and Halak were splitting time with the Devils, the Devils still would be leading there division, they are a good TEAM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 How has this thread gotten so whacked out!?! I think the vast majority of people here are all saying the same basic thing. Price is obviously the guy but Halak is playing so well that we should ride him until he pukes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 I also agree with the tenet that the team needs to play better, so the goalies don't have to steal so many games. This burns them out. No goalie can keep this pace up. Brodeur has always benefited from playing behind a solid defensive team. There were many games where he was sub-par, but no one noticed given the 18 shots he faced. This is why he could play so many games a season. Put Brodeur on the habs, have him face 40 plus shots a night (including more odd man rushes then I can count) and you would see him struggle too. The best way to get Price back is to make sure when he does get the call, the team makes it an easy game. He needs to build confidence, which is hard when you are getting shelled. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ForumGhost Posted March 2, 2009 Share Posted March 2, 2009 Price may get a shot if Halak doesn't recover from the flu in time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) Price may get a shot if Halak doesn't recover from the flu in time. Why is it that nothing seems to go right for very long this season? Halak gets hot as fire, but then gets a flu to put his win streak in jeopardy. The hockey gods are not with us lately. Edited March 3, 2009 by sbhatt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HABBER-oooooKNOWS Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Why is it that nothing seems to go right for very long this season? Halak gets hot as fire, but then gets a flu to put his win streak in jeopardy. The hockey gods are not with us lately. Lately? They haven't been with us since THE OLD FORUM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Why is it that nothing seems to go right for very long this season? Halak gets hot as fire, but then gets a flu to put his win streak in jeopardy. The hockey gods are not with us lately. maybe the hockey gods have decided that carey (the second coming) is ready to come off the bench shhhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 (edited) maybe the hockey gods have decided that carey (the second coming) is ready to come off the bench shhhh The way he has been playing, that is proof that they are against us!!! Edited March 3, 2009 by sbhatt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psycing Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 "Goaltender Jaroslav Halak, who is riding a four-game winning streak, missed practice because of the flu" SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUREE!!! I'm sure it is the flu, and not a hangover after the partying the players probably did after beating the best team in the league. Note: I am not saying that it is wrong for them to have partied after the game, but rather that I do not believe this flu business what-so-ever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 "Goaltender Jaroslav Halak, who is riding a four-game winning streak, missed practice because of the flu" SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUREE!!! I'm sure it is the flu, and not a hangover after the partying the players probably did after beating the best team in the league. Note: I am not saying that it is wrong for them to have partied after the game, but rather that I do not believe this flu business what-so-ever. He's 23/24 years old and he's already experiencing two day hangovers? Man... at that age I was just starting to truly experience hangovers that lasted until I ate lunch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 On Fan 590 today...Scotty Bowman said word going aruond the league Price is weak up high on glove size. At 2:00 mark of the interview. And I was crucified for saying this in Oct/Nov.. I guess Bowman and I are idiots.... Price needs to work on his weaknesses to remain at the top of the nhl... in this league, coaches have video, scouts, etc... You can't hide for long.. let's see how he responds.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 I wonder if that's the arm he drinks with? All goalies have weeknesses. Everyone knows Price's weakness is the glove hand. I would argue his biggest weakness is the defensive team in front of him. He still is over 500 with all the problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HABBER-oooooKNOWS Posted March 3, 2009 Share Posted March 3, 2009 Halak is still sick, and Price starts in Buffalo. Tanguay still not ready, maybe Friday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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