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brobin

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OTR was discussing the Habs and I thought they made a great point...

We have so many UFA that Gainey won't even talk to, how can they see themselves as a team. There is no stability because too many are thinking about their careers, not the team.

I think some players will "play for the contract", but half the friggin team? Transient team, as they called it on OTR...

I wonder, if Gainey signed Komi, would he settle down and play better? Would Koivu or Kovalev play better knowing they are part of the team, not just what amounts to hired help? It hardly shows confidence in them to say "hey, I will wait until after the season to see if I want them"

It has me pondering....

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OTR was discussing the Habs and I thought they made a great point...

We have so many UFA that Gainey won't even talk to, how can they see themselves as a team. There is no stability because too many are thinking about their careers, not the team.

I think some players will "play for the contract", but half the friggin team? Transient team, as they called it on OTR...

I wonder, if Gainey signed Komi, would he settle down and play better? Would Koivu or Kovalev play better knowing they are part of the team, not just what amounts to hired help? It hardly shows confidence in them to say "hey, I will wait until after the season to see if I want them"

It has me pondering....

I going to have to agree with them and you. It never really bothered me before but after losing Souray and Streit and now potentially Koivu(i doubt it) Kovalev,KOMI :( etc... I can't thelp but wonder how it makes the team feel.

It shouldn't bother anyone because Bob has always been a fair guy and always puts a fair market value deal on the table, but when you push it right up to July 1st it's no skin off the players a.....ss to wait it out and see what free agency brings. By that point they become more comfortable with the idea of playing somewhere else as well.

Then on the other side of the coin maybe BG doesn't want Kovalev on the team next year and will let him walk, and Koivu might get low balled and doesn't want to have that conversation just yet. Only Bob Gainey knows why he works this way, and obviously he is sticking to his guns. I'm going to have to trust him on this one because if Komi can't get his game together because he's in turmoil over a contract he really isn't doing himself any good whether he gets it now or in the summer.

The part that sucks is we may lose a bunch of these guys for nothing. After the Souray deal I wonder How is Gainey comfortable with this. One could argue it until they are blue in the face but with so many free agents Bob can't deal with 2 or 3 and not the others. The fact that it's maybe making our team crap, well, that sucks.

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I have heard the TSN guys discuss this before a game. They all thought that Gainey is out of his mind.

I have started to look at it as an instant rebuild plan. If we are not where Gainey thinks that we should be after his five year plan then he can let our core walk and start fresh.

That does not explain people like Komisarek however.

I do like the fact that Gainey has a fresh perspective on the new salary cap. The cap is reported to go up modestly next season then plummet the season after. I would expect that this will have an impact on negotiations. Bob has said several times that it takes a unique player to play in Montreal and for those that stay it is because they want to - think Markov.

Souray and Streit did not leave because they had no contract right away. Streit left because someone decided to overpay him. Souray left because he was not the Habs first priority (his words). That was in the middle of all the Briere houpla.

I don't really know the impact of this on our team but one thing for sure, Gainey has one hell of a busy summer ahead of him.

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I have heard the TSN guys discuss this before a game. They all thought that Gainey is out of his mind.

I have started to look at it as an instant rebuild plan. If we are not where Gainey thinks that we should be after his five year plan then he can let our core walk and start fresh.

That does not explain people like Komisarek however.

I do like the fact that Gainey has a fresh perspective on the new salary cap. The cap is reported to go up modestly next season then plummet the season after. I would expect that this will have an impact on negotiations. Bob has said several times that it takes a unique player to play in Montreal and for those that stay it is because they want to - think Markov.

Souray and Streit did not leave because they had no contract right away. Streit left because someone decided to overpay him. Souray left because he was not the Habs first priority (his words). That was in the middle of all the Briere houpla.

I don't really know the impact of this on our team but one thing for sure, Gainey has one hell of a busy summer ahead of him.

well, at the start of the season, when every other team starts signing, I'd have said yes to :

4.5M to Plekanec

4M to Higgins

5M to Komisarek

etc.

I'm damn glad that Bob waits.

They all deserve half of the upmentionned amount.

Same with Ryder. at the start of last season, 3-3.5M would have sound good... but seeing how he became a useless finesse player with a big head, let the other sign him to 4M as much as they want. im glad we waited.

players like markov who've shown that after 3-4-5-6 years they haven't stopped working and that they are always consistent deserve 3-4-5-6 years contracts.

otherwise, if players choke year in year out... well you can't give them more than 1-2 years contracts. :)

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I agree. It's hard to focus on your game if you don't know if/where you have a job. Gainey let this policy get out of hand IMO, instability is not good for players or team spirit.

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I can understand hesitating with the forwards because any of Tanguay, Koivu and Kovalev may opt to leave of their own accord and then Gainey might get stuck with a combination of the three he doesn't like. But Komisarek should get signed as soon as possible.

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I've been saying this since the lockout. The salary cap changed everything, except how Gainey does business. :(

Bob seriously needs to do contract negotiations during the season and know what the soon to be UFAs want or they loose them for nothing.

Am I the only 1 bummed aboot Bonk? I dont think Bob even talked to him because he probably just assumed Bonk would want millions, which wasnt the case. Sure Lang is an upgrade to Bonk, but Lang is paid 4 mil, Bonk is making around 1.5 mil in Nashville.

Anybody who want to play for the Habs at a reduced rate than what they are worth on the open market should be allowed. JP should be a habs right now and it frustrates the hell out of me that he isnt. Akosts had JP like stats 1 year, and already makes around 1.5 mil more than what JP would have singed for. :puke:

If Bob cant sign Beauchimin for around 4 mil because Komi got over 7 mil I will be uber pissed. Bob cant risk waiting until the off season to find out that Komi thinks he's worth almost 8 mil a year because by the time Bob finds that out it will be way to late to trade him so they will loose him for nothing.

Look around at the top teams, the majority of them that are perenial contenders all have 1 thing in common: UFA's who signed at below market value. Sadly the Habs have 0.

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I've been saying this since the lockout. The salary cap changed everything, except how Gainey does business. :(

Bob seriously needs to do contract negotiations during the season and know what the soon to be UFAs want or they loose them for nothing.

Am I the only 1 bummed aboot Bonk? I dont think Bob even talked to him because he probably just assumed Bonk would want millions, which wasnt the case. Sure Lang is an upgrade to Bonk, but Lang is paid 4 mil, Bonk is making around 1.5 mil in Nashville.

Anybody who want to play for the Habs at a reduced rate than what they are worth on the open market should be allowed. JP should be a habs right now and it frustrates the hell out of me that he isnt. Akosts had JP like stats 1 year, and already makes around 1.5 mil more than what JP would have singed for. :puke:

If Bob cant sign Beauchimin for around 4 mil because Komi got over 7 mil I will be uber pissed. Bob cant risk waiting until the off season to find out that Komi thinks he's worth almost 8 mil a year because by the time Bob finds that out it will be way to late to trade him so they will loose him for nothing.

Look around at the top teams, the majority of them that are perenial contenders all have 1 thing in common: UFA's who

signed at below market value. Sadly the Habs have 0.

what? who the hell is jp and how the hell do you compare bonk to lang? what the hell does beachemin have to do with komi. Are you in the whiskey? We did not want to keep bonk we needed more offence we got it he got hurt so sad. Everybody who wants to play for the habs should be able to? huh? Go have a nap. THANK YOU GOD THAT YOU HAVE BOB RUNNING THIS FRANCHISE. AMEN

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I've been saying this since the lockout. The salary cap changed everything, except how Gainey does business. :(

Bob seriously needs to do contract negotiations during the season and know what the soon to be UFAs want or they loose them for nothing.

Am I the only 1 bummed aboot Bonk? I dont think Bob even talked to him because he probably just assumed Bonk would want millions, which wasnt the case. Sure Lang is an upgrade to Bonk, but Lang is paid 4 mil, Bonk is making around 1.5 mil in Nashville.

Anybody who want to play for the Habs at a reduced rate than what they are worth on the open market should be allowed. JP should be a habs right now and it frustrates the hell out of me that he isnt. Akosts had JP like stats 1 year, and already makes around 1.5 mil more than what JP would have singed for. :puke:

If Bob cant sign Beauchimin for around 4 mil because Komi got over 7 mil I will be uber pissed. Bob cant risk waiting until the off season to find out that Komi thinks he's worth almost 8 mil a year because by the time Bob finds that out it will be way to late to trade him so they will loose him for nothing.

Look around at the top teams, the majority of them that are perenial contenders all have 1 thing in common: UFA's who signed at below market value. Sadly the Habs have 0.

I'm not sure Bonk would have wanted to stay in MTL, and I don't think he was a good fit for most of his tenure here. Lang has the ability to be a gamebreaker, and that is why he gets paid an awful lot more than Bonk.

JP wasn't signed because Bob had already spent the money on Samsonov... I'm sure Bob would have taken JP over Sammy, but he was filing for arbitration at the time.

I think Markov signed for less than market value.

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Some guys are concerned about their careers, but why would Gainey think that's a bad thing? Last year Pittsburgh had tons of free agents on their roster and they got to the Finals. You can't say it works one way and then turn around and say it does the opposite.

I don't know why people are thinking that guys like Plekanec or Komisarek are worth less as a result of this year than they were before the season began, either. Look at what Ryder got after a much worse year than either of those two are having. I still have Plekanec's next deal at around $4.5m and Komi's at $5m. I have Higgins down a little bit from $4m, but my guestimate at $3.5m I'm sure there are teams out there that would go higher.

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Some guys are concerned about their careers, but why would Gainey think that's a bad thing? Last year Pittsburgh had tons of free agents on their roster and they got to the Finals. You can't say it works one way and then turn around and say it does the opposite.

I don't know why people are thinking that guys like Plekanec or Komisarek are worth less as a result of this year than they were before the season began, either. Look at what Ryder got after a much worse year than either of those two are having. I still have Plekanec's next deal at around $4.5m and Komi's at $5m. I have Higgins down a little bit from $4m, but my guestimate at $3.5m I'm sure there are teams out there that would go higher.

I think you have Pleks and Higgins a little high. Your numbers represent what we want them to be and not who they are. Wow, Plex at 4.5. If that's what he will cost us I say move him quick. Not worth it. Mind you I love him, but I would think he needs a few more years of consistency to bring in that much dough. I might give him 3mil and a bit. Higgins should stay where he is. Komi, I will agree with.

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yeah, not after the season they had this year... see my point? ;)

As far as Komi is concerned, he will get more on the open market,regardless of the year he's having, for sure and it sucks that Bob will let him explore the idea of leaving the Habs by waiting until April/June to start talking to him. It may be too late already.

Edited by HABBER-oooooKNOWS
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well, at the start of the season, when every other team starts signing, I'd have said yes to :

4.5M to Plekanec

4M to Higgins

5M to Komisarek

etc.

I'm damn glad that Bob waits.

They all deserve half of the upmentionned amount.

Same with Ryder. at the start of last season, 3-3.5M would have sound good... but seeing how he became a useless finesse player with a big head, let the other sign him to 4M as much as they want. im glad we waited.

players like markov who've shown that after 3-4-5-6 years they haven't stopped working and that they are always consistent deserve 3-4-5-6 years contracts.

otherwise, if players choke year in year out... well you can't give them more than 1-2 years contracts. :)

I too would love to have all the above signed, but not at those salaries.

Pleks had one good year. Higgins not worth $4 mill, and Komi at $5 mill, you've gotta be kidding me.

Pleks has to prove consistency, Higgins says he can get 40 goals, but i don't see it.

Komi, i love, but his play lately stinks. Not withstanding that, he can't make $5 million. I'd be hardpressed to give him 4. Would suck to lose him but it's not like he's a # 1 d-man who plays 25-30 minutes a game. He is a hardnosed defensive defenseman.

Let the market play out and see what BG can do.

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what? who the hell is jp and how the hell do you compare bonk to lang? what the hell does beachemin have to do with komi. Are you in the whiskey? We did not want to keep bonk we needed more offence we got it he got hurt so sad. Everybody who wants to play for the habs should be able to? huh? Go have a nap. THANK YOU GOD THAT YOU HAVE BOB RUNNING THIS FRANCHISE. AMEN

You know, JP, the 3rd line winger for Buff that got 50ish pts a season, who's now 1st-2nd line winger for Nash getting 60-70ish pts making 4 mil/5yrs who was willing to come here for 2-2.5 mil a year. Earlier I compared him to the young and unproven AKosts who alreay makes almost 1.5 mil over what JP wanted. JP is actually more comparable to Tangs but he wouldnt have cost Habs any picks and for way less than the 5.25 Tangs gets. Dumont is French too. Bob could have saved money with JP and the Tangs picks and Habs would basically be same as they are right now.

The Habs this year aquired a 50ish pts 3rd liner costing only a 2nd rnd pick but Lang makes 4 mil.

Lang and Bonk are comparable in some ways and its actually Lang who doesnt really compare. What makes Lang so good on the Habs is that the #1 & #2 Centers are so bad compared with the other top Centers in the NHL. Lang is probably in the top 10 Centers in the NHL, in points. Good ole Bonk is probably in the top 5 of defensive minded shutdown Centers who can also score. The Habs need both and this year because the top 2 lines really, not just Centers havent been scoring Lang seems so much more needed than Bonk.

Size: tie - Bonk 6-3 WT: 213, Lang 6-3 WT: 216, zomg, Lang is so much huger, Habs havent had this much size up the middle in forev. :lol:

Defenisvely: Bonk pwns Lang, SHG: Bonk pwns, faceoffs: Bonk? - its probably fairly even but I bet Bonk has the edge, speed: Bonk, origin: tie (both Czech), fighting: tie - neither fight theyre Czechs, dumb penalties: Lang, gets way more

Heres my "Boaganomics":

Lang: 1W 4T 3L = 6 pts

Bonk: 3W 4T 1L = 10 pts

:P

Komi signing and Beauchimin possibilities are related. If Komi and Bob cant make out a deal before Jul 1st and Komi is offered north of 7 mil and Bob signs him at all costs than thats ends up being that much less Bob has to offer potential UFAs with. If Komi is that important he should have had a contract extension last summer.

JP wasn't signed because Bob had already spent the money on Samsonov... I'm sure Bob would have taken JP over Sammy, but he was filing for arbitration at the time.

Maybe you are unfamiliar with the concept. Pay close attention to the sports highlights on Weds and you might just discover a way in which Bob could have pulled off signing JP. ^_^

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I say Komi deserves no more than 4 mil. Look around at some of the D in the league and what they're making. Mike Green will be making 5.25 mil next year, Shea Weber at 4.5mil and Kaberle at 4.25mil. If Komi expects to make that much money he's out of his mind. Defensive defenseman don't get the big bucks. Maybe if he put up some more offensive numbers I can see shelling out the money for him.

I think Bob knows what he is doing here. These players have a job regardless so you can't really say they are playing under uncertainty of having a job. It may not be with the habs but they'll have a job and be making good money too. This is the year that they should be proving they deserve the money.

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I say Komi deserves no more than 4 mil. Look around at some of the D in the league and what they're making. Mike Green will be making 5.25 mil next year, Shea Weber at 4.5mil and Kaberle at 4.25mil. If Komi expects to make that much money he's out of his mind. Defensive defenseman don't get the big bucks. Maybe if he put up some more offensive numbers I can see shelling out the money for him.

I think Bob knows what he is doing here. These players have a job regardless so you can't really say they are playing under uncertainty of having a job. It may not be with the habs but they'll have a job and be making good money too. This is the year that they should be proving they deserve the money.

That's where fans may have screwed the team up. Komi will have better seasons then this one but all the hoopla around him as a crushing machine plus his ballot stuffing voted in butt as an all star will drive his price up quite a bit. If Bob wants to keep him he'll need to shell out more then 4 mil guaranteed. Any less he will go somewhere else and get it in a heartbeat.

He would be missed big time.

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So if they sign Komi for more then 4 mill you have about 22 mill in defenseman who average giving up 40 shots a game. That isn't good. If Komi wants more then i think he has to be let go.

The first move in the offseason is getting someone to coach the D zone.

Gorges, Hamrlik, Markov, Komi if signed are the same as this year, and the D zone has been awfull most of the year.

I have no problem with a few of those guys moving on. Emelin is a hitting machine as well, or it's reported he is. Weber close to coming up.

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Since last summer I've been saying that bob should sign Komisarek before he gats too close to free agency. If Bob makes him an offer in May...Komo's agent will tell him: "Listen, we've waited for a year and a half for this guy to offer us something, wehy not wait a few more weeks and see what we can get on the open market?" Komo would have to be stupid not to wait the extra 4-6 weeks!

A few UFA's can always be good, but when 55-60% of your team will be a UFA on July 1st...somethign is wrong! It will come to bite us in the ass!

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I too would love to have all the above signed, but not at those salaries.

Pleks had one good year. Higgins not worth $4 mill, and Komi at $5 mill, you've gotta be kidding me.

Pleks has to prove consistency, Higgins says he can get 40 goals, but i don't see it.

Komi, i love, but his play lately stinks. Not withstanding that, he can't make $5 million. I'd be hardpressed to give him 4. Would suck to lose him but it's not like he's a # 1 d-man who plays 25-30 minutes a game. He is a hardnosed defensive defenseman.

Let the market play out and see what BG can do.

yeah, what I meant is if Bob had done like everyone seems to want him to do, he'd have had no other choice but to offer these kind of contracts, because contracts are based on stats... and those players were out of career year... So Bob would have sit with the agent and he would have had no other choice but to accept that it was their value according to their stats.

thank god he waited! they all stunk badly and now cannot ask inflated undeserved amount. we now know their true face and know that they're not worth 4.5M and more.

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Well if you consider the Ufa's, which ones are really a key to the habs future success.

Begin already gone

Bouillon: Don't need him

Kovalev: Don't need him 15 goals 5 mill a year, you can do the math there.

Koivu: I don't think he brings much to the table any more. Injuries have taken him down.

Kostopolous: Great heart and soul guy. Earned a new contract

Dandy: Should be moved by tomorrow

Komi: Arguably the only must sign guy depending on the price

Scneider: Just Got him. More a PP specialist, decent player. Could go either way.

So as you can see eevn if all these players leave, what production have the habs really lost. 40 goals combined maybe. The habs have plenty of money to upgrade these postions with younger more productive players.

I think BG has done very well with this, his youth can take over the team, he has plenty of cash to buy who he wants, so i wouldn't look at it half empty, i look at it half full.

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Well if you consider the Ufa's, which ones are really a key to the habs future success.

Begin already gone

Bouillon: Don't need him

Kovalev: Don't need him 15 goals 5 mill a year, you can do the math there.

Koivu: I don't think he brings much to the table any more. Injuries have taken him down.

Kostopolous: Great heart and soul guy. Earned a new contract

Dandy: Should be moved by tomorrow

Komi: Arguably the only must sign guy depending on the price

Scneider: Just Got him. More a PP specialist, decent player. Could go either way.

So as you can see eevn if all these players leave, what production have the habs really lost. 40 goals combined maybe. The habs have plenty of money to upgrade these postions with younger more productive players.

I think BG has done very well with this, his youth can take over the team, he has plenty of cash to buy who he wants, so i wouldn't look at it half empty, i look at it half full.

I forgot Tanguay, he could go either way, i liked what i saw early but injuries took him down. I would look 4-5 mill may be reasonable.

wow, I agree with you :clap:

however

Kov brings more than just goals

Koivu brings more than just points...

if we don't re-sign them, we HAVE TO get something else to replace them.

i dont want our 2nd line center to be Lapierre and I don't want our PP to rely on d'Agostini's offensive flair :P

but I agree that they are not irreplaceable.

I'd say Tanguay is a must though. at 28, french speaking (to appease the folks), talented, wants to play here, etc. 4-5M is just perfect.

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