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Carbo fired


alexstream

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Sorry. I love Carbo, but I haven't been impressed with him behind the bench at all. Not sorry to see him go.

Smart move by Gainey. They have been imploding since the break. This gives Gainey the opportunity to evaluate all of the players and to see if they respond by making the playoffs and winning some games in the post-season.

If they are unable to turn this around quickly, win some games, get in the playoffs and win some post-season games, I expect few of the UFAs will be back....

Good to see Dandy get an opportunity to contribute....

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Well, Koivu just tossed Carbo under the bus in a radio interview. I don't care if he is right, as the Captain he should show more class. So he can go.

So when he doesn't speak out he's a bad captain and when he does speak out he's a bad captain. :rolleyes:

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So when he doesn't speak out he's a bad captain and when he does speak out he's a bad captain. :rolleyes:

He's doing it backwards. A captain should backup his coach and call out his teammates, not the other way around... well, that's what good captains used to do anyway.

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He's doing it backwards. A captain should backup his coach and call out his teammates, not the other way around... well, that's what good captains used to do anyway.

Even when the coach is bad? Sometimes getting the coach fired is a good thing when it helps the team, wouldn't you say? Or is it better to just toil away knowing your coach is blowing it?

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He's doing it backwards. A captain should backup his coach and call out his teammates, not the other way around... well, that's what good captains used to do anyway.

It's not as black and white as that. If the team is unsatisfied with their coach, then it is definitely the responsibility of the captain to backup his teammate and call out the coaching staff. Maybe this was done privately in recent weeks and no changes were. This could very well have been one of the factors leading to his firing. The team may have gone to Gainey with their concerns. Of course, if a captain is backing up lazy players, that's another story.

Now, calling out the coach after he's already fired is in bad taste. No need to kick a man while he is down.

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Even when the coach is bad? Sometimes getting the coach fired is a good thing when it helps the team, wouldn't you say? Or is it better to just toil away knowing your coach is blowing it?

When the coach is bad? Same guy was nominated for the Jack-Adams last year. The players stopped playing because they got lazy and complacent; plus injuries to all key players piled up. That's not a bad coach, that's a coach put in a bad situation because he got no support from the players, starting with the one that should be supporting him the most.

When Jean Perron took the job in 85-86 and the team had ups and downs, you think Gainey told himself "well, the coach is bad, let's go whine to the GM behind his back". Nah. He showed the way to the players by being a good soldier and following orders. That team had 8 rookies. They managed because the vets, starting with the captain, lead. And when a young buck dragged his feet or got out of line, Gainey or another strong vet with leadership would put him back in his place. Nilan kicked Richer's ass in a practice. Anyone remembers that? That's what a captain does. It's not his job to second-guess the work of the coach, it's his job to make sure every player is playing for the team and the coach.

It's not as black and white as that. If the team is unsatisfied with their coach, then it is definitely the responsibility of the captain to backup his teammate and call out the coaching staff. Maybe this was done privately in recent weeks and no changes were. This could very well have been one of the factors leading to his firing. The team may have gone to Gainey with their concerns. Of course, if a captain is backing up lazy players, that's another story.

Now, calling out the coach after he's already fired is in bad taste. No need to kick a man while he is down.

The bowling episode. That's the leadership of the vets in a nutshell. They play a horrible game. They close the lockerroom for 45 mins. They talk amongst themselves, they decide they need to... go bowling. Coach lets them go bowling, agrees to let the players do what the players -- the leaders -- thought was best for the team. So the players go bowling. And what happens next? They play the same horrible game. That's supposed to be the coach's fault? He said "Alright Saku, you're the captain of these guys, you know the pulse of the lockerroom, you find out what needs to be done to get the guys up and running" and look what happened. Miserable failure.

That's a team with leadership? No. That's a captain backing up lazy players, siding with them in choosing recreation and then stinking like the rest of the lazy players the next game. Never, ever, called the players out during that bad stretch. Yet first thing he does when the coach is gone is to knock on him? That's leadership?

But now Koivu & Kovy cant work against the coach anymore, The buck stops with Bob, he wont be replaced and he's Bob Gainey, one of the most respected man in hockey. You know something's wrong when your vets will only respect and support that kind of man. As if anyone less wasnt good enough for them...

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Koz, I think you misunderstand my comment. I was by no means defending Koivu's leadership. I simply meant to point out that there are situations where it is, indeed, the captain's job to call out his coach instead of calling out his teammates. I was just trying to give him a little benefit of the doubt.

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Koz, I think you misunderstand my comment. I was by no means defending Koivu's leadership. I simply meant to point out that there are situations where it is, indeed, the captain's job to call out his coach instead of calling out his teammates. I was just trying to give him a little benefit of the doubt.

I understood... I was just trying to erase that doubt. :P

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When Jean Perron took the job in 85-86 and the team had ups and downs, you think Gainey told himself "well, the coach is bad, let's go whine to the GM behind his back". Nah. He showed the way to the players by being a good soldier and following orders. That team had 8 rookies. They managed because the vets, starting with the captain, lead. And when a young buck dragged his feet or got out of line, Gainey or another strong vet with leadership would put him back in his place. Nilan kicked Richer's ass in a practice. Anyone remembers that? That's what a captain does. It's not his job to second-guess the work of the coach, it's his job to make sure every player is playing for the team and the coach.

But wait. Nilan kicked Richer's ass. You just said so! Why didn't Gainey? Wasn't he the captain? We all know how vocal Gainey is - I daresay you would have been on him for not shouting, screaming, kicking over cans, and beating players. Gainey, too, was a quiet leader.

The bowling episode. That's the leadership of the vets in a nutshell. They play a horrible game. They close the lockerroom for 45 mins. They talk amongst themselves, they decide they need to... go bowling.

That was Carbo's idea. Koivu was interviewed - said it himself. Players were ready to get on the bus to go to practice. They got on and were told they were going elsewhere. You can place that bowling catastrophe squarely on Carbo's shoulders.

Communication problems. Everyone knows it now, even Bob alluded to it. The players didn't know their role! How are any of them, captain or not, to be blamed when they don't know what the frock the coach wants from them?

Here the bottom line: Carbo couldn't get the team playing well, defensively they stunk and there was no discernable system. Strike one. The players didn't even know what was expected of them on the ice - something Bob has said, and in fact mentioned for his first practice: they'd each know exactly what was expected of them. Carbo's communication was horrid. Strike two. Then he threw up his hands and indicated that he didn't know what to do anymore. Strike three, kiss of death, siyanora, thanks for coming out.

It's mighty easy to point blame at the "core" of players not doing what was expected of them, but *when they didn't even know themselves*... Pretty simple. Even more simple is that the GM seems to have agreed. I suspect he told everyone exactly what he wanted tonight, and for a change there was more heart displayed because the players came in with a plan and knowing what was expected of them.

I really don't get this "core" argument either. The "core" has changed from year to year for the last number of years and basically the one consistent person is Koivu. If you mean Koivu by "core" then just say it. He's not the big, prototypical, 1st-line superstar French centre that some fans feel is the only way this team will ever win a Cup. That's just the way it is. Boy is it ever going to take a bite out of a few asses if the rumours are true and he's already put pen to paper on a new deal.

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The bowling episode. That's the leadership of the vets in a nutshell. They play a horrible game. They close the lockerroom for 45 mins. They talk amongst themselves, they decide they need to... go bowling. Coach lets them go bowling, agrees to let the players do what the players -- the leaders -- thought was best for the team. So the players go bowling. And what happens next? They play the same horrible game. That's supposed to be the coach's fault? He said "Alright Saku, you're the captain of these guys, you know the pulse of the lockerroom, you find out what needs to be done to get the guys up and running" and look what happened. Miserable failure.

Yes, that is Carbos fault though. Think of this: The Cheif of Police goes to his detectives and gets them to have a meeting to discuss whats the best way to start looking into catching the latest cereal killer. Its like God asking John the Baptist for directions! :P

The people in charge are in charge because they are the ones who are supposed to know what to do. Thats the reason why they are in charge.

I'm not bummed that he was fired. I am bummed that he was hired!! Hiring Carbo is Bob's biggest mistake. Carbos only real fault is inexperience and Bob should have known that coaching in Montreal isnt a learn on the fly position. Its not an easy thing to do. Its not like its Toronto and the fans dont care aboot the results. :lol:

Its one thing to coach kids, and its different to coach Junior and AHL where they make $100K+ than it is to coach players who make millions. It wouldnt be exactly easy to get players making way more money that you to listen to you. Thats why in business your manager always makes more money than you. If you made more money that your manager at work than you would probably treat him like a punk because you would be more important to the company (thats why you make more money).

Sadly I could totally see in the next 5 years Carbo coaching his way into the Cup finals, most likely team Dallas. Most of the Habs recent ex coaches havent had enough experience and Montreal must be a great learning experience for them because most go on to have more success with the next teams they coach.

I'd love to see Roy coach the Habs but if he is their next coach the Habs will be doing the Avs a huge favour training him for around 3 years.

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What did Koivu say about Carbo anyway? Any links, or transcripts, or summaries - ?

Paraphrasing: everyone has a weakness and it seemed like communication was Carbo's weakness.

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Paraphrasing: everyone has a weakness and it seemed like communication was Carbo's weakness.

OMG!

Koivu = worst captain ever, what a disgrace. He may be the worst human being to ever live.

How could he say that everyone has weaknesses?

I can't believe this lazy bum got an elite like Carbo fired :P

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But wait. Nilan kicked Richer's ass. You just said so! Why didn't Gainey? Wasn't he the captain? We all know how vocal Gainey is - I daresay you would have been on him for not shouting, screaming, kicking over cans, and beating players. Gainey, too, was a quiet leader.

Hey, when I blame vets, I blames vetSSSSS. Not just Saku, but he's the head vet. It starts with him. Besides, there's a difference between "quiet" and "indifferent".

That was Carbo's idea. Koivu was interviewed - said it himself. Players were ready to get on the bus to go to practice. They got on and were told they were going elsewhere. You can place that bowling catastrophe squarely on Carbo's shoulders.

You missed the point entirely. Carbo let the players talk to come up with some solution, they told Carbo they were mentally worn out. They get a recreation and come out flatter than ever. That's not quitting on your coach? That's on the players shoulders for not responding.

Sometimes those players reminds me of an episode of the Simpsons when there's a brand new cake on the kitchen counter. Marges tells Homer "dont eat the cake", and he says "fine, I'll just go like this [bite in the air while walking forward] and if the cake gets eaten, it'll be its fault". Players said "fine, we'll just play half-assed and without any emotions, and if we lose, it'll be the coache's fault"

And the entire "we didnt knew what to do"... are you f*cking kidding me? Koivu is 34, Kovy 36, Hamrlik 34. That a 20-something kid doesnt know what he's supposed to do, its normal. That a 14 seasons veteran needs to be sent a picture to figure out what he's supposed to do, that's just crass irresponsability. God forbids he just goes to the coach and clear things up if he's confused. Nah, that's what too complicated.

Jesus, stop making excuses for these millionaires who slack off, act irresponsibly, underachieve and blame someone else for it.

I found an article a couple of days back, it was about Gainey's conference when he canned Julien. He was saying "too many big names are underachieving" as one of the reasons he needed to change the coach. And hey, what do you know, same thing is happening this year.

It's clear some "big names" on this team are chronic underachievers and pouters. How can anyone still denies it. It's there, right in front of your eyes. And it's nobody's fault but the players themselves. Anything else is just excuses.

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OMG!

Koivu = worst captain ever, what a disgrace. He may be the worst human being to ever live.

How could he say that everyone has weaknesses?

I can't believe this lazy bum got an elite like Carbo fired :P

So.. you think it is classy that the day after he helped get his coach fired, he is in the press bad mouthing him?

Here is what he should say "We feel bad about it, clearly we are part of the problem and Carbo paid the price for all of us. We must do better and we will. We wish Carbo the best in the future". Full stop...

Koivu knows this and knows it well. So why did he blather on and justify the firing? Because he was one of the people pushing for it. And now that he has his way, he starts playing harder. That is not captain material. They call that a mutiny in the Navy. Demers hinted at it on OTR when he said about Carbo "I am not sure if it was fair or not, but I won't say anything bad about him. When he was my Captain, he supported me as the coach". Demers may have been fired, but Carbo the Captain made sure it wasn't because the team sand bagged it on him.

I am sorry, but there is no way Koivu should escape some responsibility for this teams character problem. It is not all his fault, and it is not all Carbo either. Carbo paid, and I believe Koivu's time is coming. Shame. I thought better of him for a lot of years.

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So.. you think it is classy that the day after he helped get his coach fired, he is in the press bad mouthing him?

Here is what he should say "We feel bad about it, clearly we are part of the problem and Carbo paid the price for all of us. We must do better and we will. We wish Carbo the best in the future". Full stop...

Koivu knows this and knows it well. So why did he blather on and justify the firing? Because he was one of the people pushing for it. And now that he has his way, he starts playing harder. That is not captain material. They call that a mutiny in the Navy. Demers hinted at it on OTR when he said about Carbo "I am not sure if it was fair or not, but I won't say anything bad about him. When he was my Captain, he supported me as the coach". Demers may have been fired, but Carbo the Captain made sure it wasn't because the team sand bagged it on him.

I am sorry, but there is no way Koivu should escape some responsibility for this teams character problem. It is not all his fault, and it is not all Carbo either. Carbo paid, and I believe Koivu's time is coming. Shame. I thought better of him for a lot of years.

This is such nonsense.

If you listen to the interview it is Koivu who is choosing his words and trying to be kind to Carbo. There is clearly no intent to bash Carbo in any way. Koivu tried very hard to soften the reports that Carbo is a poor communicator - something that is well known and reported since Carbo got here.

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This is such nonsense.

If you listen to the interview it is Koivu who is choosing his words and trying to be kind to Carbo. There is clearly no intent to bash Carbo in any way. Koivu tried very hard to soften the reports that Carbo is a poor communicator - something that is well known and reported since Carbo got here.

To each his own. I am not saying Koivu was wrong about Carbo, I am saying he should shut the hell up and play hockey.

This team will not win a cup until they sweep away the last vestiges of mediocrity. Koivu and Kovy are on the way out..

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Like it or not, in pro sports, the team shits the bed, who's the fall guy? Yup, it's usually the coach. Shame on the Habs for failing to have a higher standard and instead firing the "vets" that colluded to get Carbo fired.

And the same people Koivu-bashing, man does it get old reading every single spin to somehow pin most of the team's woes on Koivu. What a bum, let's rip off the C and waive the jerk, send him to Hamilton. No team would even claim him, he's such a coach-killing POS. Watch the Cups rolllll in once the Habs get rid of him.

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So.. you think it is classy that the day after he helped get his coach fired, he is in the press bad mouthing him?

Here is what he should say "We feel bad about it, clearly we are part of the problem and Carbo paid the price for all of us. We must do better and we will. We wish Carbo the best in the future". Full stop...

Koivu knows this and knows it well. So why did he blather on and justify the firing? Because he was one of the people pushing for it. And now that he has his way, he starts playing harder. That is not captain material. They call that a mutiny in the Navy. Demers hinted at it on OTR when he said about Carbo "I am not sure if it was fair or not, but I won't say anything bad about him. When he was my Captain, he supported me as the coach". Demers may have been fired, but Carbo the Captain made sure it wasn't because the team sand bagged it on him.

I am sorry, but there is no way Koivu should escape some responsibility for this teams character problem. It is not all his fault, and it is not all Carbo either. Carbo paid, and I believe Koivu's time is coming. Shame. I thought better of him for a lot of years.

What did Koivu say before that? and after that? We don't know because the audio has been edited. Clearly by the sound-clips entrance it's been clipped. I doubt Koivu was flat out bagging on Carbo. He might have praised his strengths for an hour before that 30 seconds summing up his weakness. Plus this isn't the first time we heard about Carbo and lack of communication. Thank-you Saks for honesty, at least you aren't waiting to be traded to let the truth out, like most other players.

I'd rather hear an honest answer then what I've heard from Komi who never says anything but the cliche right thing to say bullcrap, Gee thanks Komi, do you have an original, honest bone in your body? Some insight please, Oh right...."He's a proven winner and I'm just glad to be a part of the organization............. Gainey is full of crap 80% of the time when he talks to the press too.

I don't blame them, that's just the way it goes. What bugs me is how some of you guys don't see this and take a 30 second clip and completely base judgement on an entire career. I think Koivu getting Carbo fired is the stupidest thing any of you could ever come up with. Carbo got Carbo fired, end of story. Ownership got Carbo fired not Saku. The owners could have called for Saku's head at the trade deadline, but they didn't.......and they never will.Hmmmmmmm I wonder why? I'm not going to pretend I know either like most do here.

Usually it's the same guys that bitch about Koivu not speaking french.......who friggin cares. I hope to God the rumors are true and he's already signed. I hope we win the cup and Saku stays healthy to hoist it and his MVP trophy just so all you nay sayers can pout while your team wins the cup.

SICKENING! is what it is.

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I hope we win the cup and Saku stays healthy to hoist it and his MVP trophy just so all you nay sayers can pout while your team wins the cup.

Any "fan" who would be upset about the Habs winning a Cup with Saku clearly isn't a Habs fan at all.

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Any "fan" who would be upset about the Habs winning a Cup with Saku clearly isn't a Habs fan at all.

Yeah, it is that suggestion by others that ticks me off. I want Koivu gone because I BELIEVE that it will make this a better team. Somehow people connect being a fan with mindless love for Saku, or any other player. Meanwhile, they bash the hell out of Carbo. Should they not support Carbo? Would these people pout if Carbo had led this team to a cup???

I have been a huge fan of his for years, but I am not into hero worship. I have to analyze the facts in front of me. Some people refuse to see that Koivu is on the down side, he is a tie to a terrible past, and his leadership is questionable. They can feel free to believe in Koivu if they want, but suggesting that people who don't want him are not habs fans is a joke.

I would be very happy to see Koivu lift the cup over his head this year, but I still wouldn't sign him in the summer. Same with Kovy. I am not sure Gainey disagrees with me.. did you see him extending a contract to his mighty Captain? For all we know, he did try to trade him or Kovy, but there were no takers..

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When Jean Perron took the job in 85-86 and the team had ups and downs, you think Gainey told himself "well, the coach is bad, let's go whine to the GM behind his back". Nah. He showed the way to the players by being a good soldier and following orders. That team had 8 rookies. They managed because the vets, starting with the captain, lead. And when a young buck dragged his feet or got out of line, Gainey or another strong vet with leadership would put him back in his place. Nilan kicked Richer's ass in a practice. Anyone remembers that? That's what a captain does. It's not his job to second-guess the work of the coach, it's his job to make sure every player is playing for the team and the coach.

How do you know Bob didn't whine to the GM and get Perron fired, or Bob Berry or Boom Boom. He was close to management, I'm sure he had some complaints back then. It's pretty unfair to express such an opinion and compare it to Saku when you are clearly assuming Koivu was whining about Carbo at all in the first place. What do you base that story on anyway, link please?

As far as Nilan kicking Richer's ass in a practice, and I quote you ''That's what a captain does? Anyone remember that?'' I find that statement really funny because you Kozed are the one who who doesn't remember when Koivu kicked Ribero's ass in practice for similar reasons. Of course you don't remember that, I mean you would have to praise Koivu's actions and I know that's hard for you to do.

Oh but that doesn't matter because your posts only magnify things and certain players YOU don't like. Very good insight, I hope your "lurkers" don't develop opinions based on your one sided judgement calls that are based on, well your on sidedness. ^_^

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What did Koivu say before that? and after that? We don't know because the audio has been edited. Clearly by the sound-clips entrance it's been clipped. I doubt Koivu was flat out bagging on Carbo. He might have praised his strengths for an hour before that 30 seconds summing up his weakness. Plus this isn't the first time we heard about Carbo and lack of communication. Thank-you Saks for honesty, at least you aren't waiting to be traded to let the truth out, like most other players.

I heard the entire 60 second clip, and Koivu goes on for 60 seconds saying that everyone has weaknesses and that for some it's communication.

MItch melnick played the clip on the Team 990 Tuesday during the afternoon drive-home show. He played the clip for Pierre mcGuire, and McGuire said he was truly disappointed by "that player" (meaning Koivu)! For pierre mcGuire to say that he was disappointed in Koivu for saying these things shows that we are not wrong to believe that koivu was one of the players who had Carbo fired!

I realize many of you don't like McGuire, but it doesn't change the fact that he knows hockey and he knows what goes on a team. For him to come out after hearing that clip and saying that the players are at fault and that the pressure is now on them to perform says alot!

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Yeah, it is that suggestion by others that ticks me off. I want Koivu gone because I BELIEVE that it will make this a better team. Somehow people connect being a fan with mindless love for Saku, or any other player. Meanwhile, they bash the hell out of Carbo. Should they not support Carbo? Would these people pout if Carbo had led this team to a cup???

I have been a huge fan of his for years, but I am not into hero worship. I have to analyze the facts in front of me. Some people refuse to see that Koivu is on the down side, he is a tie to a terrible past, and his leadership is questionable. They can feel free to believe in Koivu if they want, but suggesting that people who don't want him are not habs fans is a joke.

I would be very happy to see Koivu lift the cup over his head this year, but I still wouldn't sign him in the summer. Same with Kovy. I am not sure Gainey disagrees with me.. did you see him extending a contract to his mighty Captain? For all we know, he did try to trade him or Kovy, but there were no takers..

It's rumored he's already signed. Take it for what it's worth. I hope it's true.

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Any "fan" who would be upset about the Habs winning a Cup with Saku clearly isn't a Habs fan at all.

This goes without saying. I can't stand Saku, but a cup is a cup and I'd be happy no matter who the captain was if it means the Habs finally win it again. Osama Bin Laden could be the captain of the Canadiens and it wouldn't stop me from enjoying a cup win!

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