KoZed Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 well if some guys agent (not vinny's)said so it must be true I'd trust Ciccone. Briefly played with Vinny and TB but learned the ropes with Kent Hughes (Vinny's agent) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Darren Dreger's also said that Montreal would be at the top of Vinny's list of places to play... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 (edited) Vinny wants to play here more than anywhere else. Enrico Ciccone said so... Vinny wanted to home to Montreal so bad that instead of waiting a year to become a UFA and singing with his beloved home town team, he decided to sign a contract so he can be a member of the Lightning until he is 40. Yep sounds like a guy pining to come home. and wanting to play in hockey's shrine rather then living in anonimity in sunny TB. Briere passed up more $/yr and go to a hole in the ground city, rather then come home to Montreal. Until Tangauy had to choose between another year of being punted around by Keenan, he didn't want anything to do with Montreal. But, i guess all of the OTHER french born players in the league really do want to play in Montreal. Edited March 22, 2009 by hab29RETIRED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Vinny wanted to home to Montreal so bad that instead of waiting a year to become a UFA and singing with his beloved home town team, he decided to sign a contract so he can be a member of the Lightning until he is 40. Yep sounds like a guy pining to come home. and wanting to play in hockey's shrine rather then living in anonimity in sunny TB. I didnt say Vinny was dying to come home, I said he'd want to come here more than anywhere else, as in Montreal is his #1 choice if he had to be traded. Briere passed up more $/yr and go to a hole in the ground city, rather then come home to Montreal. Philly was smart enough to have best friend (Biron) give him a tour of the city and tell him how good the team was. Who did we send to meet Briere and try to sell him the city and team? Oh, that's right, NOBODY... Could have always try to make our best player Koivu do that PR job... oh, on second thought, Koivu wasnt even able to sell the team and city to his good buddy (Selanne), so scratch that. Until Tanguay had to choose between another year of being punted around by Keenan, he didn't want anything to do with Montreal. Did he lift his NTC to come here or not? Is he here or not? But I guess you can spin it that he was forced to chose between the lesser of two evil, if that satisfies you... But, i guess all of the OTHER french born players in the league really do want to play in Montreal. Dumont wanted to come here like crazy, MTL didnt even bother making him an offer and chose Samsonov instead. :puke: For sure, though, French players should always had prefer to come here and play with a team that sucked, had no good young players and was barely making the playoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 (edited) Vinny wanted to home to Montreal so bad that instead of waiting a year to become a UFA and singing with his beloved home town team, he decided to sign a contract so he can be a member of the Lightning until he is 40. Yep sounds like a guy pining to come home. and wanting to play in hockey's shrine rather then living in anonimity in sunny TB. Briere passed up more $/yr and go to a hole in the ground city, rather then come home to Montreal. Until Tangauy had to choose between another year of being punted around by Keenan, he didn't want anything to do with Montreal. But, i guess all of the OTHER french born players in the league really do want to play in Montreal. now this i agree with and lets not forget georges larague saying he would never play in montreal but once there was no place else to go "it's home I go" "For sure, though, French players should always had prefer to come here and play with a team that sucked, had no good young players and was barely making the playoffs." and this makes your argument how again? Edited March 22, 2009 by habs rule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 22, 2009 Share Posted March 22, 2009 Dumont wanted to come here like crazy, MTL didnt even bother making him an offer and chose Samsonov instead. :puke: Dumont would have been run out of town faster than you can say "Samsonov is a softie." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 What you're describing right now is what Ronald Corey did in 1983 when he took over as President and hired Serge Savard as GM. The Habs were getting shifted on the identity front by the Nordiques and it was the Brewers War (Molson vs O'Keefe). In retrospect, it got us 2 Cups (oh, but we would suck with Francos, right? Yeah. We had 14 Francos on the roster in 1993...) This time, no Nords, no O'Keefe... Dont think there's any real need to go All-Quebec as much as in the past. Although when you look at the team and oftentimes only the local boys plays like they care, makes you wonder... true, it paid off, but Serge Savard was a heck of a Manager IMO... he wasn't the best at drafting after 1989... but otherwise, a heck of a GM... what I was talking about was more something "driven by" boivin... he knows nothing in hockey but goes nuts and directs his GM to pick such and such Qc player available, otherwise, i agree with you on most accounts. However, about the above post on Samsonov vs Dumont, you're deadwrong. Samsonov was signed... then, some time after that, Dumont, a RFA, went into arbitration... and won. Buffalo didn't accept the ruling and let him free. he was then a UFA. but the Habs were already with a full roster and were already capped. (it was really late in the summer way later than the samsonov signing) YES it could have been a good idea to try to unload a player to get dumont... but they it's false to say that they chose Sammy over Dumont. dumont wasn't available at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Dumont wanted to come here like crazy, MTL didnt even bother making him an offer and chose Samsonov instead. :puke: You do know the Habs signed Samsonov before the Sabres walked away from Dumont's arbitration award which made him a UFA in the first place? I happened to be in Montreal (my only trip) shortly after Dumont was released and talked to a couple people in the organization while I was getting a tour of the arena. They wanted him, but they told me there were concerns with money - they had little left after Samsonov. It's not so much that they didn't make him an offer, but they just couldn't (and by that I mean free up space to make him one). I suppose I should've read Streamer's response before, oh well... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDriveFor25 Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I haven't read this entire thread so please do not kill me if I am reiterating what somebody else already said, but why is nobody talking about Ted Nolan as the next HC. I'm not sure the dude knows any french, but I am DAMN sure he can coach. And I think our players would fit his style pretty well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redondo Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 (edited) I haven't read this entire thread so please do not kill me if I am reiterating what somebody else already said, but why is nobody talking about Ted Nolan as the next HC. I'm not sure the dude knows any french, but I am DAMN sure he can coach. And I think our players would fit his style pretty well. Don't know about Nolan, isn't he rumored to have a dislike for french players in particular? And definitely a history of communication issues too, there's a reason he goes 10 years between NHL coaching jobs. Edited March 23, 2009 by redondo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Don't know about Nolan, isn't he rumored to have a dislike for french players in particular? And definitely a history of communication issues too, there's a reason he goes 10 years between NHL coaching jobs. Considering he coached very successfully in the QMJHL, I highly doubt that rumor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 Considering he coached very successfully in the QMJHL, I highly doubt that rumor. certainly had that prob in buffalo and ny Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I haven't read this entire thread so please do not kill me if I am reiterating what somebody else already said, but why is nobody talking about Ted Nolan as the next HC. I'm not sure the dude knows any french, but I am DAMN sure he can coach. And I think our players would fit his style pretty well. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO NOT NOLAAAAAAAAAAAAN!!!!!!!!!!!!! GAAAAH! Ahem... uh, sorry... old reflex. Seems every time there's talks about a new coach in MTL someone has got to mention Nolan, the most overrated coach ever. A rookie coach Patrick Roy put him in his little back pocket at the Memorial Cup a few years back. And when I mean put him in his little backpocket, I actually mean mind-f*cked him out of his skull. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I'm not sure if this has come up in this thread previously but how is this not discrimination/racism/bigotry? Why is it that somebody has to speak french to get the job? I know nobody is going to argue this point, because most Canadian, english speaking people really probably do not care, but how can they discriminate against people that do not speak french? They actually have a bylaw in the NFL that teams when looking for coaches have to interview atleast 1 black candidate. Could you imagine another national hockey league team saying they were only going to interview english speaking coaches only? Could you imagine the uproar. The other point is just how said this statement really is. "we will only hire a francophone coach" Not the best person for the job. Thats sad. Instead of trying to make this team the best it can be, its trying to do what is politcally correct. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted March 23, 2009 Share Posted March 23, 2009 I'm not sure if this has come up in this thread previously but how is this not discrimination/racism/bigotry? Why is it that somebody has to speak french to get the job? I know nobody is going to argue this point, because most Canadian, english speaking people really probably do not care, but how can they discriminate against people that do not speak french? They actually have a bylaw in the NFL that teams when looking for coaches have to interview atleast 1 black candidate. Could you imagine another national hockey league team saying they were only going to interview english speaking coaches only? Could you imagine the uproar. The other point is just how said this statement really is. "we will only hire a francophone coach" Not the best person for the job. Thats sad. Instead of trying to make this team the best it can be, its trying to do what is politcally correct. You're wrong. They will interview/hire only bilingual candidates. They would be much more againts the law if they would hire a only-english speaking coach. Remember, we're in a "french" province, our laws are in french... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 You're wrong. They will interview/hire only bilingual candidates. They would be much more againts the law if they would hire a only-english speaking coach. Remember, we're in a "french" province, our laws are in french... Not really sure that your argument makes any sense. Does that make it illegal to hire a french only speaking coach in Toronto? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Not really sure that your argument makes any sense. Does that make it illegal to hire a french only speaking coach in Toronto? It wouldn't be illegal. Strange, but not illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) Not really sure that your argument makes any sense. Does that make it illegal to hire a french only speaking coach in Toronto? Nah, I mean, it is not illegal in Québec to hire someone who speak both language over a english only speaking person. It is normal to not be hired if you don't meet the requirements, and one of these is to speak french, as per Pierre Boivin. I don't think the opposite would be illegal in Toronto as well. But I just can't imagine Brian Burke interviewing only some candidates who don't speak english at all... Edited March 24, 2009 by JoeLassister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I'm not sure if this has come up in this thread previously but how is this not discrimination/racism/bigotry? Why is it that somebody has to speak french to get the job? I know nobody is going to argue this point, because most Canadian, english speaking people really probably do not care, but how can they discriminate against people that do not speak french? They actually have a bylaw in the NFL that teams when looking for coaches have to interview atleast 1 black candidate. Could you imagine another national hockey league team saying they were only going to interview english speaking coaches only? Could you imagine the uproar. The other point is just how said this statement really is. "we will only hire a francophone coach" Not the best person for the job. Thats sad. Instead of trying to make this team the best it can be, its trying to do what is politcally correct. ok, i just erased all the insults i wanted to put in this post... man, just actually have a walk in Gaspé, Rouyn, or Rimouski. Just go there. and Talk in english. If you're not saying something like "I love my toaster"... no one will understand you. NO ONE. in Qc City, it's something like 10-15 % Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tokyohabs Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Why is this drum still banging? For those that have never lived in Montreal, it is highly advisable to be able to speak French in terms of employment - unless you want to be the deck swabber out at the Baie d'Urfe marina or something. It just makes more sense. A job in a restaurant, even if the kitchen are all anglo, the clients are for the most part going to want to speak in French. Again, Boivin did not say 'French Canadian only'. The candidates must be able to speak the language. You can always learn. The federal civil service requires employees to show some proficiency in French. Pretty sure that is not illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Why is this drum still banging? For those that have never lived in Montreal, it is highly advisable to be able to speak French in terms of employment - unless you want to be the deck swabber out at the Baie d'Urfe marina or something. It just makes more sense. A job in a restaurant, even if the kitchen are all anglo, the clients are for the most part going to want to speak in French. Again, Boivin did not say 'French Canadian only'. The candidates must be able to speak the language. You can always learn. The federal civil service requires employees to show some proficiency in French. Pretty sure that is not illegal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRock Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Hmmm... Ok, say in the last 10 years, Habs try to draft as many Quebec-born players as possible: 1999 draft: - Martin Grenier (45th oa) instead of A. Buturlin (39th oa) 2000 draft: - Antoine Vermette (55th oa) instead of Hainsey (13th) - Yanick Lehoux (86th oa) instead of Hossa (16th). 2001 draft: - Pascal Leclaire (8th oa) instead of Komisarek (7th oa), - Jason Pominville (55th oa) instead of Perezhogin (25th oa), - Stephane Veilleux (93rd) instead of Duncan Milroy (37th). Might still pick Plekanec 71st oa. Veilleux is a regular grinder in Minny for 4 years now. 2002 draft: - Franco-ontarian Daniel Paille (20th overall) or Montrealer Matthew Lombardi (90th oa) instead of Chris Higgins (14th), - Maxime Talbot (234rd) instead of Tomas Linhart (45th), 2003 draft: - Steve Bernier (16th oa) instead of A. Kostitsyn (10th), - Patrice Bergeron (45th) instead of Cory Urquhart - Alexandre Picard (the Ottawa D) (85th) instead of Ryan O'Byrne (79th oa) - Bruno Gervais (182th) instead of Corey Locke (113th) 2004 draft - Nick Fugere (114th) instead of Chipchura (18th). No Q players from that year made the NHL yet. 2005 draft - Luc Bourdon (10th oa) instead of Price (5th oa) 2006 draft - Claude Giroux (22nd oa) instead of Fisher (20th oa) Giroux plays for the Flyers already. 2007 draft - Angelo Esposito (20th) instead of McDonagh (12th) - David Perron (26th) instead of Pacioretty (22nd) QMJHL crap, really? Bergeron, Vermette, Pominville, Lombardi, Bernier, Veilleux, Paille, Talbot, Giroux & Perron are all in the NHL. Add Lapierre & Latendresse and you have a pretty good group of forwards, wouldnt you say? On defense we'd lack Komisarek, instead we'd have swift puck-moving D like Picard & Gervais. And Bourdon (God rest his soul) was a stud in the making. We wouldnt have Price, but we'd have Leclaire already. This is was muddles up the debate. Ignorance and preconveived ideas. If you really want to go down THAT road, then let's take a longer walk and not just a stroll 1999 - Martin Grenier (45th oa) instead of A. Buturlin (39th oa) or Niclas Havelid (83rd), Mike Comrie (91st), Ryan Malone (115th), Martin Erat (191st), Henrik Zetterberg (210th, ouch), Radim Vrbata (212th, played in Hull) 2000 - Antoine Vermette (55th oa) instead of Hainsey (13th) - Yanick Lehoux (86th oa) instead of Hossa (16th). or Alexander Frolov (20th), Justin Williams (28th), Jarret Stoll (46th), Lubomir Visnovsky (118th), John-Michael Liles (159th) Yanick Lehoux has played 10 NHL games, while Marcel Hossa played over 200. He played more with the Rangers than Montreal, and was the key to the Kovalev deal. They were both busts. 2001 - Pascal Leclaire (8th oa) instead of Komisarek (7th oa), - Jason Pominville (55th oa) instead of Perezhogin (25th oa), - Stephane Veilleux (93rd) instead of Duncan Milroy (37th). Might still pick Plekanec 71st oa. or Derek Roy (32nd), Mike Cammalleri (49th) Komisarek was a better pick than LeClaire, this season notwithstanding. LeClaire didn't get the starter job in Columbus until this season, and he won't have it next season with Chris Mason around. 2002 - Franco-ontarian Daniel Paille (20th overall) or Montrealer Matthew Lombardi (90th oa) instead of Chris Higgins (14th), - Maxime Talbot (234rd) instead of Tomas Linhart (45th) Jarret Stoll again (36th), Paul Ranger (183rd), Dennis Wideman (241st) Looking at that draft, it's pretty weak after the top ten spots. 2003 - Steve Bernier (16th oa) instead of A. Kostitsyn (10th), - Patrice Bergeron (45th) instead of Cory Urquhart - Alexandre Picard (the Ottawa D) (85th) instead of Ryan O'Byrne (79th oa) - Bruno Gervais (182th)instead of Corey Locke (113th) Jeff Carter (11th), Dustin Brown (13th), Zach Parise (17th), Ryan Getzlaf (19th), Brent Burns (20th), Mike Richards (24th), Corey Perry (28th) – damn that's a great first round – 2004 - Nick Fugere (114th) instead of Chipchura (18th). Who is Nick Fugere? Wojtek Wolski (21st), Andrej Meszaros (23rd), Mike Green (29th), Johan Franzen (97th). They did take Mark Streit that year at 262 and let him walk. 2005 - Luc Bourdon (10th oa) instead of Price (5th oa) Anze Kopitar (11th), Marc Staal (12th), Andrew Cogliano (25th), Paul Stasnty (44th, one spot before Guillaume Latendresse), Kris Letang (62nd, played in Victoriaville, born in Montreal) I'm not even gonna bother with 2006 and 2007 because neither Fischer nor McDonagh have played a pro game yet so there's no basis of comparison, and Pacioretty is still in his first year. So what is the ultimate point of this exercise? Well, there's three. 1. There were a lot of good players that Montreal could have taken but didn't. Some of them were playing in the Quebec League, and a lot of them weren't. They still would have missed out. 2. The player's birth certificate doesn't make a difference on the ice. 3. Hindsight is 20/20. Woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't do anything of any benefit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 ok, i just erased all the insults i wanted to put in this post... man, just actually have a walk in Gaspé, Rouyn, or Rimouski. Just go there. and Talk in english. If you're not saying something like "I love my toaster"... no one will understand you. NO ONE. in Qc City, it's something like 10-15 % Who cares who speaks what in small town Quebec. The point is, we're never going to hire the best available candidate, point finale!!! You guys regirgitating stats about the language breakdown, we know already, give us all a break!!! I'm from here, I cheered for Lafleur, it's great to have my province represented on my favourite hockey team, it's a bonus, not essential. In the end, we'll probably hire somebody with no experience, and go through the same process in 2 years. Whatever man, hope we'll all be proud about how we advanced the cause of up and coming Quebecois coaches. Because that's all we'll have to cheer about. The last century, win, win, win. Ten years into the new century, no winning in sight, and a responsibility/expectation to hire Quebecers, great, just great. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Speaking french makes perfect sense for a job in Montreal whereby you need to communicate in french with your associates, employees and customers...I'm not so sure that the coach of an NHL team that is staffed by people who speak fluent english must have a french speaking requirement...sorry guys, just makes little sense. The ONLY argument you can make is that the coach can communicate his thoughts to the fans...however, that is easily done since the media will translate it anyways. They already translate anything Carboneau says in english too. I guess there would be a few less tv clips in french language...and certainly any coach would start learning the language too. Besides, fans want to win...the hardline francophone crowd might bitch and moan until the team wins a few in a row and would promptly shut up and wait for the team to lose before complaining...which they do regardless of the coach's language anyhow. Hire the best candidate who can make this team win. Anything less is just marketing and should be insulting to the fanbase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Yanick Lehoux has played 10 NHL games, while Marcel Hossa played over 200. He played more with the Rangers than Montreal, and was the key to the Kovalev deal. They were both busts. It was Balej, not Hossa, that was part of the Kovalev deal. Komisarek was a better pick than LeClaire, this season notwithstanding. LeClaire didn't get the starter job in Columbus until this season, and he won't have it next season with Chris Mason around. I said Komo was the best pick. But Leclaire was the Blue Jackets starter last year. Lead all goalies with 9 shutouts. Same as Mason this year. Perhaps it's just Hitchcock's system... 2004 - Nick Fugere (114th) instead of Chipchura (18th). Who is Nick Fugere? Dont ask me. That year was horrible for the Q. I wasnt trying to put only the best options. 2005 - Luc Bourdon (10th oa) instead of Price (5th oa) Anze Kopitar (11th), Marc Staal (12th), Andrew Cogliano (25th), Paul Stasnty (44th, one spot before Guillaume Latendresse), Kris Letang (62nd, played in Victoriaville, born in Montreal) Kopitar was my pick instead of Price. Still is. Letang I thought about after. He was Bourdon's pairing partner in Val d'Or. So what is the ultimate point of this exercise? Well, there's three. 1. There were a lot of good players that Montreal could have taken but didn't. Some of them were playing in the Quebec League, and a lot of them weren't. They still would have missed out. That's all I wanted to point out to Colin who said we'd have a bunch of minor leaguers. Nothing more. Pominville, 80 pts last season. Who before Kovy reached that many pts before? Hint: not Koivu! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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