JoeLassister Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) Speaking french makes perfect sense for a job in Montreal whereby you need to communicate in french with your associates, employees and customers...I'm not so sure that the coach of an NHL team that is staffed by people who speak fluent english must have a french speaking requirement...sorry guys, just makes little sense. The ONLY argument you can make is that the coach can communicate his thoughts to the fans...however, that is easily done since the media will translate it anyways. They already translate anything Carboneau says in english too. I guess there would be a few less tv clips in french language...and certainly any coach would start learning the language too. Besides, fans want to win...the hardline francophone crowd might bitch and moan until the team wins a few in a row and would promptly shut up and wait for the team to lose before complaining...which they do regardless of the coach's language anyhow. Hire the best candidate who can make this team win. Anything less is just marketing and should be insulting to the fanbase. Medias don't translate in english, the coach has to answer in both french and english. But you (not you Zowpeb, but some of you guys) seem to assume that an NHL franchis is 100% about hockey. Wich is totally false. It is a business wich employs the same departments as the other businesses. Operation : hockey Accounting : paycheck, tickets, tv revenus, items sales Marketing : speak to the target population Maintenance : Bell Centre Communication/public relations : medias, Donald Beauchamps Logistic : Scheduling, airplanes/bus travelling, As the owner of the Montreal Canadien Hockey Club, you have to deliver at Operation 1rst, but you cannot exclude other departments or everything will fall down. Edited March 24, 2009 by JoeLassister Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I'm not sure if this has come up in this thread previously but how is this not discrimination/racism/bigotry? Of course not, it's not even close. One of the jobs of the coach is to talk to the media, a large percentage of which is French speaking. It's called a pre-requisite. If you're going to take a job teaching Spanish, you have to know Spanish. That's not discrimination, that's common sense. As I've said, I think they should be open to hiring a non-French speaking coach, but with the understanding that he learn French. It's ok to use a translator for a while, but at some point, it just becomes insulting to force French speaking people to accommodate a coach, when he's in their province whose official language is French. Marcel Hossa played over 200. He played more with the Rangers than Montreal, and was the key to the Kovalev deal. They were both busts. Two things wrong with this statement. Hossa was not part of the Kovalev trade and Kovalev was not a bust the whole time he was here. LeClaire didn't get the starter job in Columbus until this season, and he won't have it next season with Chris Mason around. LeClaire was the starter last year and was in the Vezina hunt till his yearly injury hit. LeClaire obviously won't have the Columbus job next year since he got traded to Ottawa. Also, Steve Mason is the goalie who made Pazzy expendable in Columbus. Chris Mason plays for St. Louis. 1. There were a lot of good players that Montreal could have taken but didn't. Some of them were playing in the Quebec League, and a lot of them weren't. They still would have missed out. 2. The player's birth certificate doesn't make a difference on the ice. 3. Hindsight is 20/20. Woulda, coulda, shoulda doesn't do anything of any benefit. Bleeding bleu, blanc, et rogue growing up is a wonderful thing for Habs player, but the reality is that we can't draft guys just because they grew up rooting for the Habs. A player having wonderful NHL success for the team he grew up rooting for is the exception, not the rule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 The ONLY argument you can make is that the coach can communicate his thoughts to the fans...however, that is easily done since the media will translate it anyways. They already translate anything Carboneau says in english too. I guess there would be a few less tv clips in french language...and certainly any coach would start learning the language too. No they dont do any translations. Maybe a bried summary. Whatever he says in english, it's usually just the same anyways. Its a requirement that comes with the job. If you get transfered to a job in Italy that has a daily and intense PR/media aspect to it, would you be surprised if your future employer asks that you can speak italian, even if everyone in your office will speaks english? This is just the same. Basic common sense, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 That's all I wanted to point out to Colin who said we'd have a bunch of minor leaguers. Nothing more. You've put together a whole pile of third and fourth line players with one or two decent ones. You also have a goalie who will make you long for the healthy days of Saku Koivu. And if you think the Habs are soft now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 No they dont do any translations. Maybe a bried summary. Whatever he says in english, it's usually just the same anyways. Its a requirement that comes with the job. If you get transfered to a job in Italy that has a daily and intense PR/media aspect to it, would you be surprised if your future employer asks that you can speak italian, even if everyone in your office will speaks english? This is just the same. Basic common sense, period. I'll say it one more time, so you can see the point. We all know that, it can't be more obvious. You're not adding anything new to the debate!! The problem is that makes the pool of candidates pathetically small, and weakens our chances of winning. Now, please respond by telling us what percentage of people speak whatever language, and again, it's a business, holy cow, we all know that. Basic common sense, period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Of course not, it's not even close. One of the jobs of the coach is to talk to the media, a large percentage of which is French speaking. It's called a pre-requisite. If you're going to take a job teaching Spanish, you have to know Spanish. That's not discrimination, that's common sense. As I've said, I think they should be open to hiring a non-French speaking coach, but with the understanding that he learn French. It's ok to use a translator for a while, but at some point, it just becomes insulting to force French speaking people to accommodate a coach, when he's in their province whose official language is French. Its called hiring a translator or giving the guy intense laguage lessons. So are you saying you would rather have a french canadian coach than the best coach for the job? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Its called hiring a translator or giving the guy intense laguage lessons. So are you saying you would rather have a french canadian coach than the best coach for the job? Did you even bother reading my post? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I'll say it one more time, so you can see the point. We all know that, it can't be more obvious. You're not adding anything new to the debate!! The problem is that makes the pool of candidates pathetically small, and weakens our chances of winning. Now, please respond by telling us what percentage of people speak whatever language, and again, it's a business, holy cow, we all know that. Basic common sense, period. Your argument is not basic common sense at all as you still ignore the fact that hiring a coach is not a 100% hockey related decision. Hockey franchises are run by business man, and these guys don't think 100% hockey and never will. And for the small pool of candidates : any coach with the ability to speak french at the same level as Bob Gainey would make it, IMO. And IMO, Bob Gainey's french is far from being good. So, any coach with a little motivation for learning a language could easily apply for the job. And, ib Bob Hartley that bad of a coach ??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) Your argument is not basic common sense at all as you still ignore the fact that hiring a coach is not a 100% hockey related decision. Hockey franchises are run by business man, and these guys don't think 100% hockey and never will. And for the small pool of candidates : any coach with the ability to speak french at the same level as Bob Gainey would make it, IMO. And IMO, Bob Gainey's french is far from being good. So, any coach with a little motivation for learning a language could easily apply for the job. And, ib Bob Hartley that bad of a coach ??? Are you serious?? I even pointed out it's a business in the exact post you replied to. In an earlier post, I said we'll probably hire a quebecois coach, and got through the same process in two years. But I guess we can all rejoice in the fact that we advanced the cause of francophone coaches with no experience. Bob Hartley, he doesn't seem to be getting too many interviews. Good coach, you or I don't know, we'll see. If you think Bob's french is good enough, than you're a wise man, because many of us in this province (media) don't think it's enough. I do. Edited March 24, 2009 by Habsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helmethead Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 No they dont do any translations. Maybe a bried summary. Whatever he says in english, it's usually just the same anyways. Its a requirement that comes with the job. If you get transfered to a job in Italy that has a daily and intense PR/media aspect to it, would you be surprised if your future employer asks that you can speak italian, even if everyone in your office will speaks english? This is just the same. Basic common sense, period. If there happens to be one fan base which is more hard headed and demanding when it comes to their heritage and language I think it is the English regarding their National Soccer Team. The similarities between the fan base of English National Team and the Canadiens is actually quite uncanny. If you factor out the championships that the Habs have won over the past century, I think that they might be the team with the greatest similarities concerning the "religious" following and never ending media following / scrutiny that they both have. Now, for as long as I can remember the English National Team has sucked crumpets. From 1990 onward they have gone through 11 different coaches and have basically accomplished NOTHING on a National Level. Year after year they would hire the "best" available English coach for their national team, and year after year they would fail. The reasons behind failure were as follows: 1) the coach's inability to motivate the players 2) the coaching staff's inabilite to out-coach opposing team managers 3) the coach's inability to absorb the press' constant coverage and scrutiny After all the years of futility and watching less qualified teams triumph to glory (see Euro 1992, Denmark - Euro 2004, Greece) they finally came to their senses and hired the "best" possible coach. Fabio Capello Capello has won the Championship with every team he has ever coached on a club level. He has won the Champions League in convincing fashion. The English Football Association convinced him to come out of retirement to help lead the fragile national squad to glory. So far they under him, they have been playing their best football in ages; actually leading their qualifying division for the 2010 World Cup. Pride seems to have returned to the Three Lions and their fans... Did I forget to mention that Capello doesn't speak English?? I rest my case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I'll say it one more time, so you can see the point. We all know that, it can't be more obvious. You're not adding anything new to the debate!! The problem is that makes the pool of candidates pathetically small, and weakens our chances of winning. I made a list a couple weeks back of all the potential candidates, and ended up with something like 7 names. How many candidates do you really need? 20? 50? And, really, are non-english speaking coaches automatically better? Because it seems to be the insinuation behind the "best coach available" rhetoric. So which coaches are we talking about here? Peter Laviolette, the guy that won the Cup once in Carolina but missed the playoffs all the other years? Ted I-won-the-Jack-Adams-10-years-ago Nolan? How about one of the overrated Sutter brothers who've been passed around the league more often than 5-cents whores? Or how about Terry Murray or another of those 9-lives generic anglo coaches that always finds a job somewhere in the league because he's connected in the Ol' Boys Network? Go on, I'm waiting for names of those, oh! so much better, unilingual coaches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) I made a list a couple weeks back of all the potential candidates, and ended up with something like 7 names. How many candidates do you really need? 20? 50? And, really, are non-english speaking coaches automatically better? Because it seems to be the insinuation behind the "best coach available" rhetoric. So which coaches are we talking about here? Peter Laviolette, the guy that won the Cup once in Carolina but missed the playoffs all the other years? Ted I-won-the-Jack-Adams-10-years-ago Nolan? How about one of the overrated Sutter brothers who've been passed around the league more often than 5-cents whores? Or how about Terry Murray or another of those 9-lives generic anglo coaches that always finds a job somewhere in the league because he's connected in the Ol' Boys Network? Go on, I'm waiting for names of those, oh! so much better, unilingual coaches. You made a list?? You have no clue what you're talking about. Rating coaches from in front of your computer. Kindly don't refer to this as rhetoric, when you limit the available pool of something to a specific group, you're , ahhh forget it, you'll never get it. Nobody's argueing against a francophone coach, I'd prefer one. Any habs fan is a friend of mine, peace. Edited March 24, 2009 by Habsy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 The Habs don't need a new "coach". They need a new "couch"! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 You made a list?? You have no clue what you're talking about. Rating coaches from in front of your computer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 (edited) I made a list a couple weeks back of all the potential candidates, and ended up with something like 7 names. How many candidates do you really need? 20? 50? And, really, are non-english speaking coaches automatically better? Because it seems to be the insinuation behind the "best coach available" rhetoric. So which coaches are we talking about here? Peter Laviolette, the guy that won the Cup once in Carolina but missed the playoffs all the other years? Ted I-won-the-Jack-Adams-10-years-ago Nolan? How about one of the overrated Sutter brothers who've been passed around the league more often than 5-cents whores? Or how about Terry Murray or another of those 9-lives generic anglo coaches that always finds a job somewhere in the league because he's connected in the Ol' Boys Network? Go on, I'm waiting for names of those, oh! so much better, unilingual coaches. I have no idea who the coaches are who are available now, or after the season ends. Name the best coach available right now? Is he unilingual or bilingual? I don't know that either. One fact of the matter is, that the Habs have gone through a number of coaches since 1993 and all have failed.....some miserably. And they all have atleast two things in common. NOne have had previous coaching experience in the NHL, which is major, and they have all been bilingual, maybe minor....maybe not. But just assuming the best coach for this team is bilingual is short sighted, ignorant and could very well lead to more mediocrity. THE BEST COACH AVAILABLE SHOULD BE GIVE THE JOB, regardless of what he speaks. The fact of the matter is that all the journalists speak English and can simply translate into french for their readers. not sure if thats better than the Bruce Willis response or not? Equally pointless. Edited March 24, 2009 by kaos Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 I have no idea who the coaches are who are available now, or after the season ends. Name the best coach available right now? Is he unilingual or bilingual? I don't know that either. One fact of the matter is, that the Habs have gone through a number of coaches since 1993 and all have failed.....some miserably. And they all have atleast two things in common. NOne have had previous coaching experience in the NHL, which is major, and they have all been bilingual, maybe minor....maybe not. But just assuming the best coach for this team is bilingual is short sighted, ignorant and could very well lead to more mediocrity. THE BEST COACH AVAILABLE SHOULD BE GIVE THE JOB, regardless of what he speaks. The fact of the matter is that all the journalists speak English and can simply translate into french for their readers. not sure if thats better than the Bruce Willis response or not? Equally pointless. Oh yeah, Réjean Tremblay would definitely be pleased to translate it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheDriveFor25 Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Just for the record.. I'm still rooting for Ted Nolan. Good with young guys and I like his style. But my gut tells me it'll be Patrick Roy behind the bench. The owner wants a french superstar, so unless Gainey can get one via trade, I think the owner will just sign one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kaos Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Just for the record.. I'm still rooting for Ted Nolan. Good with young guys and I like his style. But my gut tells me it'll be Patrick Roy behind the bench. The owner wants a french superstar, so unless Gainey can get one via trade, I think the owner will just sign one! Let Roy go and gain experience in Colorado and fail, then come to Montreal in 5 to 7 years. Just like Therien in Pittsburgh, Julien in Boston and probably Carbonneau in a few years Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRock Posted March 24, 2009 Share Posted March 24, 2009 Two things wrong with this statement. Hossa was not part of the Kovalev trade and Kovalev was not a bust the whole time he was here. I wasn't referring to Kovalev and Hossa, I was referring to Lehoux and Hossa. Hossa went to the Rangers for Garth Murray. I officially stand corrected. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 I wasn't referring to Kovalev and Hossa, I was referring to Lehoux and Hossa. Yeah got that. Hossa can still be considered a bust nonetheless. When all you can get for him is Garth "I wont touch the puck because i dont know what to do with it" Murray, you're a bust. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted March 25, 2009 Share Posted March 25, 2009 Yup, I agree. Best coach possible no matter what. They can easily pay a translator. That being said, I would require a non-French speaking coach to learn French as part of his contract. It's a sign of respect to the province, plus I think that if you are going to make a living somewhere, you should have to speak the language of where you are. The only smart reply in this entire thread. the rest is just francophobia! If Marc Crawford was able to learn how to communicate with the Media in Q.C., there's no reason someone else can't! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RobRock Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 The only smart reply in this entire thread. the rest is just francophobia! If Marc Crawford was able to learn how to communicate with the Media in Q.C., there's no reason someone else can't! Crawford grew up in a bilingual household, his mother was francophone and he coached junior in Cornwall in the Q. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted March 26, 2009 Share Posted March 26, 2009 Does Gordon Bombay speak french ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 Does Gordon Bombay speak french ?? t'es dans son groupe facebook? lol The only smart reply in this entire thread. the rest is just francophobia! If Marc Crawford was able to learn how to communicate with the Media in Q.C., there's no reason someone else can't! we should trade for Lecavalier and St-Louis just to teach them, damn francophobes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted March 27, 2009 Share Posted March 27, 2009 t'es dans son groupe facebook? lol non, mais j'ai maintenant 3 amis qui y sont, et 7 qui sont fans de Dédé Fortin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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