Habs Officially For Sale - Sold!

[MAK]

I dont think Gainey's thinking of a youth movement. Otherwize he' would've traded assets for draft picks. Besides with the club on the verge of being sold he wasn't allowed to go through a youth movement.

maybe with the new owners he will be allowed if he chooses so. But in late june it's a bit late to tell the world he's going young.

besides, i'm sure h'es still very agressive a aquiring a number one centre who plays in Tampa bay.

[Colin]

Getting rid of André Savard after only 2 full years as Gm is more shortsighted than criticizing one Bob Gainey after 5-6 years.

Savard stepped aside for Gainey and there are rumours that Savard actually told Boivin to go and get Gainey to replace him. Once Gainey was installed, Savard felt his ideas were no longer being given any weight, and therefore asked to leave.

[MAK]

Savard stepped aside for Gainey and there are rumours that Savard actually told Boivin to go and get Gainey to replace him. Once Gainey was installed, Savard felt his ideas were no longer being given any weight, and therefore asked to leave.

Savard was asked to step aside by upper management. he was given a 4 year deal but it actually was his last year of contract divided by 4( or something close).

he was given as little power as possible and was pushed aside as soon as Gainey had the chance to do so.

Heck, Gainey's job was supposed to start july 1st 03 but Savard wasn't even allowed to pick his own choice on draft day which was Carter or Getzlaf...not kostitsyn.

[habs rule]

well guys let me clarify my comments. 1. I don't believe this team is as bad as last years record shows so I don't think we are looking at a youth movement other than some of the Dogs will be coming up. I dont know who exactly but some will make it. 2. Bob planned to have this many ufa's, it was not an accident, and I can tell you that there are more than a few teams who wish they were in this position. I don't think many of our ufa's will be returning, they are mostly older and on the down side of their careers. Kovalev is probably the only one I think is a lock to come back just cause Bob and he are in love . Lang maybe and tanguay maybe. Komi probably gone but only because he wants to go. If Bob can sign him he will but as always not for stupid money. Koivu same thing. The rest are pretty easily replaced, yeah I can hear you screaming what about shnide, well he's 40 years old and def on the slide down. If he can be had for cheap ok otherwise send him to burkey, he likes to overpay him. We have the freedom and flexibilty to sign who we want. So as I said let's see what september brings, this is still Bob's plan and he should play it out to the end. I remember how bad this club was before Bob got here and while he is not perfect he is the right guy in the right job at this time. Firing him now would be a major error in my opinnion. If this team regresses or pukes again next year I may have join the dark side with Marki and komi. :ghg: :hlogo:

Edited June 22, 2009 by habs rule

[MAK]

well guys let me clarify my comments. 1. I don't believe this team is as bad as last years record shows so I don't think we are looking at a youth movement other than some of the Dogs will be coming up. I dont know who exactly but some will make it. 2. Bob planned to have this many ufa's, it was not an accident, and I can tell you that there are more than a few teams who wish they were in this position. I don't think many of our ufa's will be returning, they are mostly older and on the down side of their careers. Kovalev is probably the only one I think is a lock to come back just cause Bob and he are in love . Lang maybe and tanguay maybe. Komi probably gone but only because he wants to go. If Bob can sign him he will but as always not for stupid money. Koivu same thing. The rest are pretty easily replaced, yeah I can hear you screaming what about shnide, well he's 40 years old and def on the slide down. If he can be had for cheap ok otherwise send him to burkey, he likes to overpay him. We have the freedom and flexibilty to sign who we want. So as I said let's see what september brings, this is still Bob's plan and he should play it out to the end. I remember how bad this club was before Bob got here and while he is not perfect he is the right guy in the right job at this time. Firing him now would be a major error in my opinnion. If this team regresses or pukes again next year I may have join the dark side with Marki and komi. :ghg: :hlogo:

Having that much cap space could be a fortunate situation if other NHLers were ligning up to come here. but with schooling and taxes, even quebec born players aren't whilling to come here.

If komisarek leaves I'm sure it's mostly because Gainey failed to sign him early in the season when he could've happen for lesser money he's going to get. I honestly don't know why he keeps on doing this has the only time he was able to retain a guy was with Markov. he lost souray, streit and now komisarek( well, maybe). what hurts the most was that he lost them for nothing.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Marky and komi, I agree that if we lose Komisarek, Bob will stand guilty of having lost three top-4 defencemen in the past three years - for nothing. You can offer plausible reasons in each case, but excuses or no excuses, that boils down to horrendous asset-management and is, in fact, the major reason why I've gone from being a Gainey enthusiast to a more qualified defender of him. Still, in a cap system, you *will* lose players, and I still think that on balance Bob has done a solid job and deserves the chance to prove he can take us to that elusive next level.

habsrule, it sounds like you want to see how 2009-10 pans out. If the team shows improvement, you stay on the Gainey train. If not, you throw him under the train. That's less generous than my 2-3 year window to build a contender, but it's reasonable. Sure beats the FIRE GAINEY NOW crowd.

[habs rule]

Having that much cap space could be a fortunate situation if other NHLers were ligning up to come here. but with schooling and taxes, even quebec born players aren't whilling to come here.

If komisarek leaves I'm sure it's mostly because Gainey failed to sign him early in the season when he could've happen for lesser money he's going to get. I honestly don't know why he keeps on doing this has the only time he was able to retain a guy was with Markov. he lost souray, streit and now komisarek( well, maybe). what hurts the most was that he lost them for nothing.

marky you do make me chuckle. What is Bob supposed to do about the schooling language laws and taxes? Does he also run for premier? Maybe Kenny d could give him some pointers? On politicking that is, he did not do so good with the laffs. So we should just give up and not sign free agents cause they don't want to come here anyways? I would be interested in when you and komi were talking about how he would sign for less in the fall when he was having a real good start to the season. It is after the shoulder injury that he went for shit. It does not seem logical that when he is playing like an all star he sez to bob hey bob I'll sign for 1 maybe 2 million less cause I'm having a great start to the year. you talk about Streit like he is some god but when you think that Bob could have signed him for less he was a 5th or 6th defenceman ( still think he's a 5th at best) and you do not pay 4.5 million for a 5th or 6th def. As to souray bob offered him more $ than Edmonton Thank god he turned it down cause we got hamerlick and he is 2 to 3 times better than the pylon known as Souray, you gotta look at you tube some time some great classic Souray moments in a habs uni. I hope we do sign Komi but his last 1/2 of the year cost him a lot of $.IMHO. Now would you please tell me who this great GM is that you think could replace Bob? I am interested cause I can't think of one that I would rather have at this time. And then tell us how he is going to solve the taxes schooling and language laws. Like I said before marky the road is in front of you, you going to hit a lot of cars driving in your rear view mirror. The biggest reason people get pissed at Bob is cause there are no leaks coming out of montreal. He ain't going to tell you what he is doing. Therefore you conclude that he does nothing but how many times does he come from left field and make something happen many times and I can cite a few but you already know that. One thing I would like to see happen on this forum is that people would quit using the lynch mob mentality, we lost a game "fire the coach" we lost 2 games "fire the gm" we lost 3 games "fire everybody" "Trade em all and start over" it is nonsence and it is not how this team works. We have been firing too many people in the last couple of decades. just my thoughts while I had some time. :ghg: :ghg: :ghg: :hlogo:

Edited June 22, 2009 by habs rule

[saskhab]

Bob was a bit handcuffed by Carbo's coaching tactics. I'm beginning to see a bit more of that now. Bob didn't get a proper evaulation on Streit becuase Carbo didn't play Streit on D when the team was healthy, and in 2007-08 the team was extremely healthy. Anyone who doesn't think our 2008-09 season would've gone a lot better with Streit on board is definitely naive, and I think our prospects for 2009-10 and beyond would look better with Mark Streit as a top 4 D going forward. If nothing else, we'd always have a successful powerplay unit to rely on, anchored by two guys with plenty of game left in them in Markov and Streit.

Chicoutimi Cucmuber, you made a couple of points about what we have to hope/expect from the 2nd phase of the rebuild (I'd prefer to just call it "team building" process)... I take issue with the "cross your fingers that the prospects/young players we've chosen to build around continue to develop." Player development must be a constant at the NHL level, and it has to come from the coaching staff. That so many young players failed to improve in the past season speaks to me of poor player development at our highest level. Don Lever could do all he wanted in Hamilton to get the kids ready, but Carbonneau, Jarvis, Muller and Melanson needed to work with the players to improve their game more. The fact that the same players we deride as lazy, selfish, cocaine snorting pricks were generally motivated and hungry when they first came up, and showed incredible gains as players at the AHL level. Perhaps some of the lost motivation could be pinned on making big money and living in the big city, but I have to think there was just not the communication and emphasis on improving individual players to fit the team concept at the NHL level that there was at the AHL level. We shouldn't cross our fingers that these guys develop, we should work with them better so that they will develop. If they're ready to buy in, then we should easily be able to accomplish this. It won't be a hope and pray scenario.

[MK1]

marky you do make me chuckle. What is Bob supposed to do about the schooling language laws and taxes? Does he also run for premier? Maybe Kenny d could give him some pointers? On politicking that is, he did not do so good with the laffs. So we should just give up and not sign free agents cause they don't want to come here anyways? I would be interested in when you and komi were talking about how he would sign for less in the fall when he was having a real good start to the season. It is after the shoulder injury that he went for shit. It does not seem logical that when he is playing like an all star he sez to bob hey bob I'll sign for 1 maybe 2 million less cause I'm having a great start to the year. you talk about Streit like he is some god but when you think that Bob could have signed him for less he was a 5th or 6th defenceman ( still think he's a 5th at best) and you do not pay 4.5 million for a 5th or 6th def. As to souray bob offered him more $ than Edmonton Thank god he turned it down cause we got hamerlick and he is 2 to 3 times better than the pylon known as Souray, you gotta look at you tube some time some great classic Souray moments in a habs uni. I hope we do sign Komi but his last 1/2 of the year cost him a lot of $.IMHO. Now would you please tell me who this great GM is that you think could replace Bob? I am interested cause I can't think of one that I would rather have at this time. And then tell us how he is going to solve the taxes schooling and language laws. Like I said before marky the road is in front of you, you going to hit a lot of cars driving in your rear view mirror. The biggest reason people get pissed at Bob is cause there are no leaks coming out of montreal. He ain't going to tell you what he is doing. Therefore you conclude that he does nothing but how many times does he come from left field and make something happen many times and I can cite a few but you already know that. One thing I would like to see happen on this forum is that people would quit using the lynch mob mentality, we lost a game "fire the coach" we lost 2 games "fire the gm" we lost 3 games "fire everybody" "Trade em all and start over" it is nonsence and it is not how this team works. We have been firing too many people in the last couple of decades. just my thoughts while I had some time. :ghg: :ghg: :ghg: :hlogo:

Did you see Hammer play at all last season?? He is a 5M yoke around the neck of this team and was brutal down the stretch, I mean F'ing brutal. Some people only see what they want to see I guess.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Did you see Hammer play at all last season?? He is a 5M yoke around the neck of this team and was brutal down the stretch, I mean F'ing brutal. Some people only see what they want to see I guess.

That can be said for almost everyone on this team!

[MAK]

marky you do make me chuckle. What is Bob supposed to do about the schooling language laws and taxes? Does he also run for premier? Maybe Kenny d could give him some pointers? On politicking that is, he did not do so good with the laffs. So we should just give up and not sign free agents cause they don't want to come here anyways? I would be interested in when you and komi were talking about how he would sign for less in the fall when he was having a real good start to the season. It is after the shoulder injury that he went for shit. It does not seem logical that when he is playing like an all star he sez to bob hey bob I'll sign for 1 maybe 2 million less cause I'm having a great start to the year. you talk about Streit like he is some god but when you think that Bob could have signed him for less he was a 5th or 6th defenceman ( still think he's a 5th at best) and you do not pay 4.5 million for a 5th or 6th def. As to souray bob offered him more $ than Edmonton Thank god he turned it down cause we got hamerlick and he is 2 to 3 times better than the pylon known as Souray, you gotta look at you tube some time some great classic Souray moments in a habs uni. I hope we do sign Komi but his last 1/2 of the year cost him a lot of $.IMHO. Now would you please tell me who this great GM is that you think could replace Bob? I am interested cause I can't think of one that I would rather have at this time. And then tell us how he is going to solve the taxes schooling and language laws. Like I said before marky the road is in front of you, you going to hit a lot of cars driving in your rear view mirror. The biggest reason people get pissed at Bob is cause there are no leaks coming out of montreal. He ain't going to tell you what he is doing. Therefore you conclude that he does nothing but how many times does he come from left field and make something happen many times and I can cite a few but you already know that. One thing I would like to see happen on this forum is that people would quit using the lynch mob mentality, we lost a game "fire the coach" we lost 2 games "fire the gm" we lost 3 games "fire everybody" "Trade em all and start over" it is nonsence and it is not how this team works. We have been firing too many people in the last couple of decades. just my thoughts while I had some time. :ghg: :ghg: :ghg: :hlogo:

I was just pointing out how Gainey has a harder job at obtaining UFAs as there are outside reasins for that.

What can he do you ask ??

-Make sure he retains the player he already has.-start signing contract as early as possible

-try and gain assets for players that we may lose

-make trades that will better the team long term

-give as many draft picks possible to Trevor Timmins as he does a good job.

-Better the pro scouts department. one cannot make another ribs for niinima trade.

as for streit, if the plan wasnt to keep him why not trade him a for a pick ?

[saskhab]

as for streit, if the plan wasnt to keep him why not trade him a for a pick ?

Uh, we were in first place and he had an important role in our success. You don't ditch guys before the playoffs. It's like saying the Penguins should have dealt guys like Sykora, Satan, Gill and Fedotenko who are UFA's and may not be brought back next year.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Bob was a bit handcuffed by Carbo's coaching tactics. I'm beginning to see a bit more of that now. Bob didn't get a proper evaulation on Streit becuase Carbo didn't play Streit on D when the team was healthy, and in 2007-08 the team was extremely healthy. Anyone who doesn't think our 2008-09 season would've gone a lot better with Streit on board is definitely naive, and I think our prospects for 2009-10 and beyond would look better with Mark Streit as a top 4 D going forward. If nothing else, we'd always have a successful powerplay unit to rely on, anchored by two guys with plenty of game left in them in Markov and Streit.

Chicoutimi Cucmuber, you made a couple of points about what we have to hope/expect from the 2nd phase of the rebuild (I'd prefer to just call it "team building" process)... I take issue with the "cross your fingers that the prospects/young players we've chosen to build around continue to develop." Player development must be a constant at the NHL level, and it has to come from the coaching staff. That so many young players failed to improve in the past season speaks to me of poor player development at our highest level. Don Lever could do all he wanted in Hamilton to get the kids ready, but Carbonneau, Jarvis, Muller and Melanson needed to work with the players to improve their game more. The fact that the same players we deride as lazy, selfish, cocaine snorting pricks were generally motivated and hungry when they first came up, and showed incredible gains as players at the AHL level. Perhaps some of the lost motivation could be pinned on making big money and living in the big city, but I have to think there was just not the communication and emphasis on improving individual players to fit the team concept at the NHL level that there was at the AHL level. We shouldn't cross our fingers that these guys develop, we should work with them better so that they will develop. If they're ready to buy in, then we should easily be able to accomplish this. It won't be a hope and pray scenario.

A very perceptive post, saskhab, and I agree with everything in it. I was being glib when I spoke of 'crossing fingers' on the young guns. Although to some degree player development is never a 100% sure-fire process, you are absolutely right that it was horrendous last season and that that is the responsibility of the coaching staff. I don't know how Carbo's defenders find it acceptable that every major young player on the team (except Lats and Lappy) regressed massively under his watch last season. That won't happen under proven developer Martin.

Marky and komi, your latest post is also pretty much 100% spot on. You perfectly capture the argument that Bob is guilty of poor asset management. He doesn't consistently do any of the things you suggest. (He keeps Souray to 'show loyalty' to players who proceed to flip him the bird in UFA negotiations; he arguably costs us a playoff round by trading Huet to 'maximize the asset' but bizarrely doesn't do the same with Streit; he (apparently) lets Komi walk rather than trade him for what would certainly have been a huge return in a year when the Habs had zero chance of getting anywhere in the playoffs; etc.. You can defend each decision, but the pattern shows zero consistent commitment to maximizing assets).

Despite that, as I say, he's had solid results overall and ought to be given 2-3 years to further elevate the franchise. For that matter, if he ends up re-signing Komisarek to a tolerable deal that will blunt the worst edges of the criticisms we're putting forward; because while Streit and Souray did have pretty big holes in their games, Komi is rock-solid, a bona-fide keeper. Keeping him will change the complexion of Bob's overall pattern of asset (mis)management.

(I wouldn't be *too* hard on the pro scouting staff, either. Yeah, the Ribs trade was bad, but Lang, Tanguay and Schneider were good acquisitions...Lang in particular was just what the doctor ordered).

Edited June 22, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[MAK]

Uh, we were in first place and he had an important role in our success. You don't ditch guys before the playoffs. It's like saying the Penguins should have dealt guys like Sykora, Satan, Gill and Fedotenko who are UFA's and may not be brought back next year.

I think gainey's opinion on Streit was that he didn't want him back as a Dman and that streit wouldn't come back if he was a foward.

[MAK]

(I wouldn't be *too* hard on the pro scouting staff, either. Yeah, the Ribs trade was bad, but Lang, Tanguay and Schneider were good acquisitions...Lang in particular was just what the doctor ordered).

thats the kind of move that get people fired. I also feel that somebody did do its homework on samsonov.

I have to applause Lang and Tanguay though.

[saskhab]

I think gainey's opinion on Streit was that he didn't want him back as a Dman and that streit wouldn't come back if he was a foward.

That was made because of how Carbonneau utilized him. Streit was never given a chance to be a regular D. He was only used as an injury fill-in. Gainey's fault was in trusting Carbo on this one.

[Habsfan]

I really would like to see Boivin turfed out on his ass, cause he does interfere and has no hockey knowledge.

I disagree!

Boivin might not be a "hockey guy" but he did not interfere with Bob's work.

Also, Boivin is the one responsible for the great marketing Job the Habs have done over the past 10 years. In case you didn't know, the Habs are number 1 in the league for merchadising sales! And the Habs Brand has skyrocketed under his presidency!

[Habsfan]

- Purchase price rumoured to be "in excess of $550 million."

I also heard that amount! Ridiculous! But hey, that's a good thing. Considering that the Habs are evaluated at about 310 million$ (according to Forbes) that would mean the Molson's paid well above market value for the Habs!

[Habsfan]

Despite that, as I say, he's had solid results overall and ought to be given 2-3 years to further elevate the franchise. For that matter, if he ends up re-signing Komisarek to a tolerable deal that will blunt the worst edges of the criticisms we're putting forward; because while Streit and Souray did have pretty big holes in their games, Komi is rock-solid, a bona-fide keeper. Keeping him will change the complexion of Bob's overall pattern of asset (mis)management.

I completely agree! I know some of you find Komisarek useless, but he does have his uses and has the potential to be a great captain

[habs rule]

I disagree!

Boivin might not be a "hockey guy" but he did not interfere with Bob's work.

Also, Boivin is the one responsible for the great marketing Job the Habs have done over the past 10 years. In case you didn't know, the Habs are number 1 in the league for merchadising sales! And the Habs Brand has skyrocketed under his presidency!

I think insisting the team have a french speaking coach and saying that the team would trade for a french superstar is interfering and is not helpful to the club. He is simply pandering to the nationalists who think the team should be all french canadien. Something it has never been.

[JoeLassister]

I think insisting the team have a french speaking coach and saying that the team would trade for a french superstar is interfering and is not helpful to the club. He is simply pandering to the nationalists who think the team should be all french canadien. Something it has never been.

That is a ridiculous statement wich will automaticaly let this thread slip into a debate we've been through hundreds of times.

[alexstream]

That is a ridiculous statement wich will automaticaly let this thread slip into a debate we've been through hundreds of times.

/debate

[JoeLassister]

See ? Streamer is ready. Soon you'll have ForumGhost and sbhatt and Habsy sneaking in with arguments for the best candidate available PERIOD. Then, Kozed and I would argue that Martin or Hartley are anyway probably as good as other candidates available. Then, Colin will sneak in and claim that he is now a fan of the Maple Leafs just to test how long he can go with this statement before soemone here jump on him for being a Leafs fan. We'll probably be able to read at least once the names of Trudeau, Bowman, Toe Blake, Pauline Marois and René Lévesque...

[alexstream]

See ? Streamer is ready. Soon you'll have ForumGhost and sbhatt and Habsy sneaking in with arguments for the best candidate available PERIOD. Then, Kozed and I would argue that Martin or Hartley are anyway probably as good as other candidates available. Then, Colin will sneak in and claim that he is now a fan of the Maple Leafs just to test how long he can go with this statement before soemone here jump on him for being a Leafs fan. We'll probably be able to read at least once the names of Trudeau, Bowman, Toe Blake, Pauline Marois and René Lévesque...

PTG for the win.

[Colin]

See ? Streamer is ready. Soon you'll have ForumGhost and sbhatt and Habsy sneaking in with arguments for the best candidate available PERIOD. Then, Kozed and I would argue that Martin or Hartley are anyway probably as good as other candidates available. Then, Colin will sneak in and claim that he is now a fan of the Maple Leafs just to test how long he can go with this statement before soemone here jump on him for being a Leafs fan. We'll probably be able to read at least once the names of Trudeau, Bowman, Toe Blake, Pauline Marois and René Lévesque...

I think hiring Martin was a coup for the club - he's miles beyond Hartley, Crawford and that ilk. Along with Jacques Lemaire and Pat Burns, I think he's one of the five best in the business (yes, I think a lot of the coaches out there aren't as good as those three). I could care less that he speaks French or Swahili. He's a fantastic coach who was a few pieces from winning a Cup in Ottawa (which the GM failed to give him.)

And for the record, I'm still a Habs fan. But the more soundbytes I get from Burkie along with some class in that organization (re: less jackasses like Sundin) may actually swing me more.