Official MLB Discussion Thread

[BlueKross]

What could the number 347 represent in baseball? League record for most home runs in a season by one team? Is it the leading batting average in the league? Number of wins for a future Hall of Fame pitcher? No, no, and not in this instance. What 347 represents is the number of fans who attended a Florida-Cincinnati game yesterday afternoon. Earlier in this thread, I lambasted Jeffrey Loria's brilliant vision to tarp the upper deck to create a better ambiance...wonder what that ambiance was like when you could've crowded the entire ballpark into one single section?

http://www.businessi...tendance-2011-8

Speaking about the business of baseball, the Jays going in the Tank for the rest of the season, may force AA's hand to make significant improvements to package what they want to sell next year. I think what you are seeing might force them into Fielder mix.

[dlbalr]

Speaking about the business of baseball, the Jays going in the Tank for the rest of the season, may force AA's hand to make significant improvements to package what they want to sell next year. I think what you are seeing might force them into Fielder mix.

A lot will depend on how they play. It seems to me last year they were around .500 at this time and then went on a bit of a run at the end. If they do that again, I'm not sure fans will be as anxious to see them go after the big fish.

[BlueKross]

A lot will depend on how they play. It seems to me last year they were around .500 at this time and then went on a bit of a run at the end. If they do that again, I'm not sure fans will be as anxious to see them go after the big fish.

With all the hype around what AA is doing in the scouting world, you have to wonder when that extrapulates to wins on the field. I can't believe fans can be content with another fourth place finish in a five pony race, for the third year in a row. I don't see any progression in the win column corresponding to the alleged drafting acumen. It will be a sad day if next year is also projected to be soso year.

[dlbalr]

It takes a lot longer for most prospects to reach the majors in MLB than in other sports. Quite honestly, the fruits of his labour won't be known for another 2-3 years minimum. It'd be longer still for the likes of Cardona and Osuna, both young IFA's who signed big bonuses. I'd be stunned if we see either of them in the majors until around 2017 (maybe a little earlier for Cardona). As long as the casual fan can see and understand the process, they'll be patient enough. The prospects are coming, the payroll has been trimmed down but will go up next year, all logical steps in a rebuilding process. If they go for a big free agent and it doesn't pan out, then the patience will start running out.

[BlueKross]

It takes a lot longer for most prospects to reach the majors in MLB than in other sports. Quite honestly, the fruits of his labour won't be known for another 2-3 years minimum. It'd be longer still for the likes of Cardona and Osuna, both young IFA's who signed big bonuses. I'd be stunned if we see either of them in the majors until around 2017 (maybe a little earlier for Cardona). As long as the casual fan can see and understand the process, they'll be patient enough. The prospects are coming, the payroll has been trimmed down but will go up next year, all logical steps in a rebuilding process. If they go for a big free agent and it doesn't pan out, then the patience will start running out.

The status quo isn't going to cut it for very much longer. The schedule for the rest of the year would indicate difficult times for the Jays. I think AA's hand will be forced, and he may have to prematurely make some big signings to put a pretty face on next years team. It's about marketing and not about timing. What do you think he is going to do in the off-season? He can't afford to sit on his hands and wait.

[dlbalr]

The status quo isn't going to cut it for very much longer. The schedule for the rest of the year would indicate difficult times for the Jays. I think AA's hand will be forced, and he may have to prematurely make some big signings to put a pretty face on next years team. It's about marketing and not about timing. What do you think he is going to do in the off-season? He can't afford to sit on his hands and wait.

The two priorities I think they'll look to address are the bullpen and 1st base. Lind is underperforming so I think they'll kick the tires on a Fielder/Pujols. (I don't think the Jays will get one of them but they'll look.) As for the bullpen, there seem to be more relievers on the market this year which bodes well for Toronto. Another starting pitcher should be towards the top of their list, remember the name Yu Darvish. He'll be posted by his Japanese team this year and it'll take Matsuzaka-like numbers to get him but the Jays have already been over to see him a few times already.

[BlueKross]

The two priorities I think they'll look to address are the bullpen and 1st base. Lind is underperforming so I think they'll kick the tires on a Fielder/Pujols. (I don't think the Jays will get one of them but they'll look.) As for the bullpen, there seem to be more relievers on the market this year which bodes well for Toronto. Another starting pitcher should be towards the top of their list, remember the name Yu Darvish. He'll be posted by his Japanese team this year and it'll take Matsuzaka-like numbers to get him but the Jays have already been over to see him a few times already.

Sound like you are agreeing with me. Darvish fee to talk can be mitigated by the number of years you get him for. The problem is that once you can talk to him, he has you by the short hairs. You either pay his price or forfeit the (fifty million?) negiotating fee. Fielder makes more sense to me. I do believe a top end starter should be a goal for this year.

[dlbalr]

Sound like you are agreeing with me. Darvish fee to talk can be mitigated by the number of years you get him for. The problem is that once you can talk to him, he has you by the short hairs. You either pay his price or forfeit the (fifty million?) negiotating fee. Fielder makes more sense to me. I do believe a top end starter should be a goal for this year.

The team only keeps the posting fee if he signs. Oakland won the posting rights with pitcher Hisashi Iwakuma last year but got the fee returned to them when they couldn't come to terms with the pitcher.

[BlueKross]

The team only keeps the posting fee if he signs. Oakland won the posting rights with pitcher Hisashi Iwakuma last year but got the fee returned to them when they couldn't come to terms with the pitcher.

That makes more sense to me. Then the player only has his ability as leverage.

[dlbalr]

That makes more sense to me. Then the player only has his ability as leverage.

A lot of times, the signing team can get a lot of leverage as the Japanese team who posted him will be encouraging the player to sign so that they get the posting fee. Iwakuma is one of the rare ones who didn't sign, nearly every one does.

[BlueKross]

A lot of times, the signing team can get a lot of leverage as the Japanese team who posted him will be encouraging the player to sign so that they get the posting fee. Iwakuma is one of the rare ones who didn't sign, nearly every one does.

I had the notion for some reason that the posting fee was lost no matter what. Dlbalr cleared that up. You bring something different up. Could you clarify whom you think the team who is putting player up has leverage on? I would ask, can a team withdraw their player if the posting fee isn't deemed sufficient?

[dlbalr]

I had the notion for some reason that the posting fee was lost no matter what. Dlbalr cleared that up. You bring something different up. Could you clarify whom you think the team who is putting player up has leverage on? I would ask, can a team withdraw their player if the posting fee isn't deemed sufficient?

If say the Jays win the posting rights to a player, the Japanese team is putting leverage on the player to sign (so they get to keep the posting fee) while the Jays obviously would be pushing for him to sign as well. As for the posting fee being withdrawn, the Japanese squad has up to 30 days to decide on whether the bid is acceptable.

[BlueKross]

Thanx Dlbair: I am looking at the headlines today and it says something about a wasted effort following the 2-0 defeat to Baltimore. Yea they didn't win, but what does it matter? Cecil had a brilliant outing which you can bank going forward. I just don't get why they are playing the veterans. Put the kids on the field and let them play, unless your into padding statistics.

[dlbalr]

It's a wasted effort in that pitchers don't generally pitch that well that often, you don't want to have those efforts in a loss. Yes, the wild card isn't an option now but you still want to see some wins. Mind you, to drop into protected 1st round pick status (for Type A free agents), they could stand to lose a couple more games. As for not playing the youngsters, they are quite a bit. Cooper and Loewen have already got into a game since being recalled, Thames/Lawrie are everyday regulars, while Arencibia still gets most of the games at catcher. A lot of nights, the Jays already are running out a pretty young lineup as it is.

[BlueKross]

It's a wasted effort in that pitchers don't generally pitch that well that often, you don't want to have those efforts in a loss. Yes, the wild card isn't an option now but you still want to see some wins. Mind you, to drop into protected 1st round pick status (for Type A free agents), they could stand to lose a couple more games. As for not playing the youngsters, they are quite a bit. Cooper and Loewen have already got into a game since being recalled, Thames/Lawrie are everyday regulars, while Arencibia still gets most of the games at catcher. A lot of nights, the Jays already are running out a pretty young lineup as it is.

Does Batista need to play? Does Molina? Wise? Lind? Where is the rookie third catcher? What's the point of bring him up if you just leave him on the bench?

[dlbalr]

Does Batista need to play? Does Molina? Wise? Lind? Where is the rookie third catcher? What's the point of bring him up if you just leave him on the bench?

Does the league leader in HR's need to play? If they don't want to be investigated by MLB for deliberate tanking, yes he does. Not to mention that if he gets shut down, attendance will drop. Molina needs to play when some of the youngsters are starting, he can call a better game than Arencibia; his experience will come in handy. Wise doesn't play all that much, McCoy is starting most of the games in CF. The problem is, neither Thames nor Bautista nor Loewen can play that spot so one of those two (McCoy/Wise) have to play. As for Lind...he was sat for consecutive games earlier this week but again, you still have to play some of your regulars. Jeroloman is there just for DH and PR flexibility purposes, everyone knows he really isn't that good. He's just content to collect a big league paycheque.

[BlueKross]

Does the league leader in HR's need to play? If they don't want to be investigated by MLB for deliberate tanking, yes he does. Not to mention that if he gets shut down, attendance will drop. Molina needs to play when some of the youngsters are starting, he can call a better game than Arencibia; his experience will come in handy. Wise doesn't play all that much, McCoy is starting most of the games in CF. The problem is, neither Thames nor Bautista nor Loewen can play that spot so one of those two (McCoy/Wise) have to play. As for Lind...he was sat for consecutive games earlier this week but again, you still have to play some of your regulars. Jeroloman is there just for DH and PR flexibility purposes, everyone knows he really isn't that good. He's just content to collect a big league paycheque.

Can I save this till spring and plant it in my garden?

[dlbalr]

Of course the day after I post Loewen can't really play CF (he had the odd start in AAA but nothing more), guess who starts in CF today...

[BlueKross]

Of course the day after I post Loewen can't really play CF (he had the odd start in AAA but nothing more), guess who starts in CF today...

I guess the Cubs must be tanking?

[dlbalr]

I guess the Cubs must be tanking?

Not sure what player you're implying is sitting, but their big guns are all in most of the time - Ramirez, Soriano, Pena, and Soto. They sat a couple of those yesterday but over the past week, they've ran nearly their whole squad out.

[BlueKross]

Not sure what player you're implying is sitting, but their big guns are all in most of the time - Ramirez, Soriano, Pena, and Soto. They sat a couple of those yesterday but over the past week, they've ran nearly their whole squad out.

I'm saying they are playing everybody and are more concerned with what they got next year than wins this year.

[dlbalr]

I'm saying they are playing everybody and are more concerned with what they got next year than wins this year.

The Jays have played all of their callups aside from Jeroloman (whose ceiling is a mediocre backup C), Beck (a double-A reliever who struggled in Las Vegas) and Farquhar (the closer in Vegas). That's not too bad though I would like to see the relievers get into a game or two...I think part of the reason they're running the vets like Camp out there are to try to improve their free agent status though.

In other news, Manny Ramirez was apparently arrested in Florida today. How sad is it that my first reaction is that it took longer than I thought?

[BlueKross]

I am laughing Dlbair. What set me off was when you talked about tanking. You said that basically if they didn't their star players they would be tanking. Dlbair, they got what 25 games left in a 162 game schedule, they are already in the tank; where are they going to go? Instead of playing your top nine and subbing the rookies in, play the rookies and sub in your stars. I have more interest in the players coming for next year than whether Batista hits 45 or 47 home runs. Secondly if any player comes up here and can't play because he is perceived not good enough, HE SHOULDN'T BE HERE!

[dlbalr]

And I stand by those remarks. Heck, even Baltimore, the perennial joke of the AL East, still plays most of their regulars nearly every night. Yes, they sub in an extra callup here and there which is exactly what the Jays are doing (I think Cooper and Loewen are in tonight actually). You simply cannot sit nearly the entire regular team and just periodically sub in the veterans as you've suggested. That's equivalent to the Habs being out of the playoffs in early March and calling 1/2 the Bulldogs up to play every night. That's clearly tanking which is why no organization plays a pretty much all-rookie squad at this time, no matter how far they're out.

[BlueKross]

And I stand by those remarks. Heck, even Baltimore, the perennial joke of the AL East, still plays most of their regulars nearly every night. Yes, they sub in an extra callup here and there which is exactly what the Jays are doing (I think Cooper and Loewen are in tonight actually). You simply cannot sit nearly the entire regular team and just periodically sub in the veterans as you've suggested. That's equivalent to the Habs being out of the playoffs in early March and calling 1/2 the Bulldogs up to play every night. That's clearly tanking which is why no organization plays a pretty much all-rookie squad at this time, no matter how far they're out.

Exactly what you are saying is the logic I am trying to get past. You can't make the comparison about tanking in the NHL to tanking in MLB at the end of season. Tanking is a buzz word that takes on a bad aroma but the effects would be quite different in the two sports. I site the length of schedule, the number of draft rounds,the number of teams in the playoffs as contributing factors that make a difference. I also think that bring in fresh people in Sept may in some cases be a boone .