Gainey

[ForumGhost]

Holy crap, I agree with Casper here!

[MK1]

Holy crap, I agree with Casper here!

I'm sorta of dumbfounded. Jeez, Tanguay is one of the very very few good moves from Bob. Why slam it?

Slam it because he is paying premium $$$ for a guy that is hurt alot and is a no-show in the playoffs. Here is the lowdown on Tanguay in the playoffs since the lockout season:

24 GP --------> THREE goals

Bravo, just what we need, another perimeter softie who "looks great" in the regular season and then blows or gets injured when it actually matters. Throw a wet Joe Thornton in the dryer and you get Tanguay, definitely worth 5M in my books. Whoever mentioned it earlier, Sutter must just smile everytime he things of BG. I guess a sucker is born every minute.

I am going to throw out ONE name, and suggest that Bob open up this mediocre roster and basically give whatever is needed to get him signed, because he is a phenom even on a terrible team and will be a legend on a decent/good team.

ILYA KOVALCHUK - 2010 UFA

Pay him and sign him, period. There is your franchise move.

[Sir_Boagalott]

Tanguay's numbers seem to be a little bit better than Streits, though one's a forward and the other is a d-man.

But why do you say Tanguay was in our doghouse? He was injured but that's it.

We had the #1 PP the year before Streit emerged too; there was no reason to think losing him would have made all the difference it did. And if there was... well Tanguay is a better playmaker and had some experience on the point. There didn't seem to be any emergency. Losing the picks might hurt but that is the cost to bring in a first line talent. This was expected to be a huge season - not one in which we had time to develop Dags and Patches on the first two lines.

I didnt say Tangs was in our doghouse, he was in the Flames. Not sure why you say there was no reason to think that Habs PP would remain strong after getting rid of their best PP guy, again. How many consecutive years can a team loose 1 of their top PP guys and still maintain 1 of the best PP? Answer is apparently 2. The Habs were lucky the 1st time and tested fate the 2nd. Did you really think the Habs could pull that off a 2nd time? All the analysts were shocked that the Habs managed to over come loosing Souray so I can see why members here though Habs could afford to loose Streit.

Did the Habs really need another small forward thats under 6' 200 lbs, whos playoff production is questionable at the cost of a 1st & 2nd rnd pick? Also stop saying we can bring Tangs back next year. Bob could have signed him this summer regardless if Sutter had fleeced him or not. Bob did pay trade deadline day price on a mid summer trade.

Also I'm sure most will say how could Bob have known Tangs would get injured but I bet none will say I am phsycic. Hard to beleive that a 6" 200 lbs Canadian guy on a line with 2 Euros who almost never go in the corners would get crushed when he goes into the corner. Who could have possibly seen that one comming.

My point aboot D'Ags n Patches is that if your only drafting 6' 200 lbs guys then at some point you have to trade for or sign UFAs with some size. Bob makes several fundamental mistakes and I dont see him ever changing that. i.e. no contract negotiations during the season, no 5+ yr contracts, no great deals (nobody is grossly under paid), turns down UFA players who want to be good deals.

[alexstream]

The Habs without Tangs but with Striet still would have made the playoffs, and they wouldnt have barely made them either. Dont forget the Habs had 1 of the best PP with Striet, right?

Look at the stats:

GP G A Pts +/- PPG PPA SHG SHA GWG PIM Shots PCT Hits

Tangs: 50 16 25 41 +13 5 11 0 0 3 34 76 21.05 -

Streit: 74 16 40 56 +6 10 19 1 1 1 62 150 10.67 114

Striet 29 PP points, Tangs 16

Striet didnt cost Habs a 1st and 2nd round pick, and wasnt injured for 30+ games, and would have been guarenteed to still be around next year. None of these things can be said for Tangs.

The Habs farm system is full of guys under 6' 200 lbs guys. Paying a 1st and 2nd round pick to aquire a player that is in a teams dog house who makes 5mil+ is a huge price. I hope Sutter will be sending Bob Christmas cards for a long time.

So Kovy and Koivu were comletely revived by Tangs 25 A? : umm, but Striets 49 A last year didnt have anything to do with Kovy getting 35G that year?

Tanguay > Streit no matter what stats you come up with.

Streit -> very good situational player. ideally, you're still with 3 lines philosophy in the 70s and you play him all the while on the PP... 15 mins of PP per game. that's it.

of course he was the best D in NYI they had nothing else!

but here?! tye prefered to play briser at D instead of him... cause his d was too bad. that says a lot.

remember weinrich?! he was our 1st d. we then traded him to Boston and... suddenly what happened?! he was a reserve dman.

that's the same. Streit on our team would still give us 10 goals per year... but his giveaways ratio? his hit ratio? forget it.

and 50 pts over 80 games

vs

50 pts in 60 games for Tanguay?

well that's easy to choose.

[Sir_Boagalott]

But you can come up with w/e stats you want to proove Tangs is way better.

Their real stats this year are:

Tangs 50 GP 41 pts

Streit 74 gp 56 pts

Tangs avgs .82 pts/game to Streits .756

The facts proove Tangs is 10 thousand times better than Streit do they?

Oddly Striet played more games, had more points than Tangs, and gets paid 1.275 mil less than Tangs. Clearly the best choice for the Habs was to loose Striet and 2 picks for Tangs. How cant everybody see how huge an improvment Tangs is over Striet.

Now for the extremely obtuse:

If Bob had have dropped his self imposed no contract agreements during the reg season and signed Striet during the reg season last year he could have got Streit for 2.5 mil/year. No worries I wont be surprised when most of you still say Tangs < Striet.

The choice is easy, rational thinking apparently isnt

Edited May 9, 2009 by Sir_Boagalott

[ForumGhost]

I didnt say Tangs was in our doghouse, he was in the Flames. Not sure why you say there was no reason to think that Habs PP would remain strong after getting rid of their best PP guy, again. How many consecutive years can a team loose 1 of their top PP guys and still maintain 1 of the best PP? Answer is apparently 2. The Habs were lucky the 1st time and tested fate the 2nd. Did you really think the Habs could pull that off a 2nd time? All the analysts were shocked that the Habs managed to over come loosing Souray so I can see why members here though Habs could afford to loose Streit.

Did the Habs really need another small forward thats under 6' 200 lbs, whos playoff production is questionable at the cost of a 1st & 2nd rnd pick? Also stop saying we can bring Tangs back next year. Bob could have signed him this summer regardless if Sutter had fleeced him or not. Bob did pay trade deadline day price on a mid summer trade.

Also I'm sure most will say how could Bob have known Tangs would get injured but I bet none will say I am phsycic. Hard to beleive that a 6" 200 lbs Canadian guy on a line with 2 Euros who almost never go in the corners would get crushed when he goes into the corner. Who could have possibly seen that one comming.

My point aboot D'Ags n Patches is that if your only drafting 6' 200 lbs guys then at some point you have to trade for or sign UFAs with some size. Bob makes several fundamental mistakes and I dont see him ever changing that. i.e. no contract negotiations during the season, no 5+ yr contracts, no great deals (nobody is grossly under paid), turns down UFA players who want to be good deals.

Again, you miss the point like a champ in disregarding skill completely. Size means nothing if you don't have skill. And Tanguay is certainly one of our most skilled players. And again, YOU CAN'T COMPARE THE PRODUCTION OF A DEFENSEMAN AND A FORWARD. Furthermore, how on Earth can you possibly deduce that a Canadian playing on a line with two Euros would get injured would be injured when he goes into the corner? That makes absolutely no sense at all.

The more you write, the more my eyes are getting tired from rolling in their sockets.

turns down UFA players who want to be good deals.

May I have a specific example please? Also don't say Striet because that 2 mil thing is pure rumor.

Edited May 9, 2009 by ForumGhost

[BTH]

I didnt say Tangs was in our doghouse, he was in the Flames. Not sure why you say there was no reason to think that Habs PP would remain strong after getting rid of their best PP guy, again. How many consecutive years can a team loose 1 of their top PP guys and still maintain 1 of the best PP? Answer is apparently 2. The Habs were lucky the 1st time and tested fate the 2nd. Did you really think the Habs could pull that off a 2nd time? All the analysts were shocked that the Habs managed to over come loosing Souray so I can see why members here though Habs could afford to loose Streit.

Did the Habs really need another small forward thats under 6' 200 lbs, whos playoff production is questionable at the cost of a 1st & 2nd rnd pick? Also stop saying we can bring Tangs back next year. Bob could have signed him this summer regardless if Sutter had fleeced him or not. Bob did pay trade deadline day price on a mid summer trade.

Also I'm sure most will say how could Bob have known Tangs would get injured but I bet none will say I am phsycic. Hard to beleive that a 6" 200 lbs Canadian guy on a line with 2 Euros who almost never go in the corners would get crushed when he goes into the corner. Who could have possibly seen that one comming.

My point aboot D'Ags n Patches is that if your only drafting 6' 200 lbs guys then at some point you have to trade for or sign UFAs with some size. Bob makes several fundamental mistakes and I dont see him ever changing that. i.e. no contract negotiations during the season, no 5+ yr contracts, no great deals (nobody is grossly under paid), turns down UFA players who want to be good deals.

Streit wasn't our top PP guy though, which is made obvious by the fact that our PP was first in the league before he ever emerged. We had two PP magicians in Markov and Kovalev and then a whole bunch of other talented players in Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Koivu, Lang, Tanguay, etc... We had no excuse for not having a top PP. We had the personnel there even without Streit.

Does it matter so much that Tanguay's under 6'0, 200 lbs? Most first line players are on the small side. Yeah, we could use some grit in our top 6 forwards but that doesn't mean bringing in great small (average really) players is counter-productive. Tanguay wasn't meant to be our saviour, he was meant to add to what we had. Now Bob needs to add a big player that can work on a top 2 line with skill guys like Tanguay.

[redondo]

Streit wasn't our top PP guy though, which is made obvious by the fact that our PP was first in the league before he ever emerged. We had two PP magicians in Markov and Kovalev and then a whole bunch of other talented players in Kostitsyn, Plekanec, Koivu, Lang, Tanguay, etc... We had no excuse for not having a top PP. We had the personnel there even without Streit.

That was the prevalent thinking at the time - that the magic of Markov and Kovalev will make the PP click regardless of who's on point. But this past season has proven otherwise, so much so that with all the other holes in this lineup at the trade deadline, the only addition Gainey made was to get a guy he KNEW could play trigger on the PP, Schneider.

[BTH]

That was the prevalent thinking at the time - that the magic of Markov and Kovalev will make the PP click regardless of who's on point. But this past season has proven otherwise, so much so that with all the other holes in this lineup at the trade deadline, the only addition Gainey made was to get a guy he KNEW could play trigger on the PP, Schneider.

Yep. We winded up having trouble finding someone to play Streit's position. That doesn't mean he was our top PP guy or that we didn't have a bunch of players that should have been able to fill Streit's shoes. It's not like he had a rocket from the point, he was just solid at moving the puck around. We have plenty of skilled playmakers that should have been able to fit into one of the league's top PP units.

[redondo]

Yep. We winded up having trouble finding someone to play Streit's position. That doesn't mean he was our top PP guy or that we didn't have a bunch of players that should have been able to fill Streit's shoes. It's not like he had a rocket from the point, he was just solid at moving the puck around. We have plenty of skilled playmakers that should have been able to fit into one of the league's top PP units.

And I will be the first one to tell you I thought so too at the time - Streit seemed replaceable, as was Souray the year before. BUT obviously it didn't work out, in the end it turned out what we really needed was not so much a passer but a shooter, someone who is looking to unleash, and can get the puck on net (most of the time anyway lol Souray) to get something going. I think Schneide's mobility also helped, another thing Streit was pretty good at.

Which of course begs the question of what happens in the offseason, now that Gainey KNOWS he needs to address this, either by keeping Schneide or getting someone else to play that role. Honestly, so many holes on this team that need to be filled in the next few months, it gives me a headache to contemplate.....

[ForumGhost]

For the record, in hindsight I still see Souray as being more of a liability on defense than an asset on the offense. I would gladly take Streit back, but Souray can stay in Edmonton.