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Coyotes are done in Phoenix... OR will it be the Thrashers?


alexstream
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I couldnt play hockey as a kid because the equipment (buying and re-buying as I'd grow up) and driving me to ice rinks in the winter was too much for a single mom. But I played organized soccer every summer from 7 to 12 without any problems. That was 20 years ago, How much as changed?

same, played baseball but no hockey. i played lots of street hockey... but ice hockey? i had to practice first in order to make it worth it... but go practice alone as a kid, when you dont know how to skate...

i surrendered after 20 minutes :(

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same, played baseball but no hockey. i played lots of street hockey... but ice hockey? i had to practice first in order to make it worth it... but go practice alone as a kid, when you dont know how to skate...

i surrendered after 20 minutes :(

:lol:

My mom made me try figure skating. Teacher hated me because I kept skating like a hockey player and bumping other kids around. :P

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Thing is, Colin, that Bettman gambled on many "emerging" markets, ie. urban areas that were in full economic & demographic boom in the 90's. There's no guarantees that those places will keep thriving. Just look at Detroit. Soon half of it will be a ghost town.

Well, that was really my point. Expansion into these new areas was a good thing, but he did too many, too fast. Emerging or no, hockey still has to find a presence there eventually. Did Bettman make mistakes, you betcha - and that's why he'll be wearing more and more collars like Don Cherry soon. The axe is being sharpened as we debate this.

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I couldnt play hockey as a kid because the equipment (buying and re-buying as I'd grow up) and driving me to ice rinks in the winter was too much for a single mom. But I played organized soccer every summer from 7 to 12 without any problems. That was 20 years ago, How much as changed?

Tons. You don't just play for a team now, you play for a club and all the infrastructure contained therein. That includes personnel, fields and maintenance (which rises astronimcally each season) and, in the bigger clubs, dome construction and maintenance. As you get older, some of your fees go to supporting the younger players and in the end, the fees can get into the thousands per season for a truly competitive player.

Now, as an addendum to that, soccer is played year-round at those levels, where even hockey players get a bit of a break. So the costs per month may be a little lower for soccer, but they even out over the course of the year.

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Colin, I can see the point you are trying to make but I think it is missing slightly. Sure it is expensive to play a high level of competitive soccer, but to simply participate and grow a love for the game, it is extremely cheap. Shin pads and a $60 dollar fee will get your kid into the U5 house league in my town. The prices "escalate" up to $110 dollars once you get up to the U20 category.

Minor Hockey for U5 is $295, for the early bird fee, $395 after August 1st. Of course this doesn't include equipment. Tyke and Bantam league fees are $525.

Hell, even getting a game of road or floor hockey going can be expensive, especially when you compare it to a pickup game of soccer.

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Yeah, I loved your post earlier, Colin, but I've gotta agree with KoZed and Q60 here. To play casually or recreationally, soccer is TONS cheaper. If we're just talking about a local city league, then there's shoes, pads, and a fairly cheap pay-to-play fee. Just the pads alone in hockey cost more than all that, and you have to buy them over year or so for growing kids. Pay-to-play fees are also higher since there are fewer rinks than open fields, and rinks cost more to maintain.

At a higher level, like the club teams you're talking about, then soccer can become expensive. If we compare the lowest level of soccer to the lowest level of hockey, then hockey is far more expensive. Any sport gets expensive when you get into the ranks of traveling and club teams. When it comes to cheapo city leagues and just playing for fun, soccer is far, far cheaper.

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Yesterday the father of Louis Leblanc was on the Radio, explaining why he was in NCAA and how things were over there, etc.

Said that it's at least 12k a year to play hockey at competitive level, be it LHJMQ or NCAA.

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You're right, I agree with all that. I was referring to upper level soccer as compared with upper level hockey. At the lowest levels, hockey is still much more expensive. Sorry 'bout that.

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You know I'm sitting here wondering ( and bored ) what the reaction would be like if the shoe was on the other foot. Say if Ottawa had built a new building 2-3 years ago ( with province/govt $$ ) then the owner filed for bankruptcy so a Billionaire from Las Vegas could come in, way over pay for the team and move them to Vegas, even though there are other potential buys lined up to keep the team in Ottawa. Just saying :P

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The league needs to fight Balsillie tooth and nail and they will. If he succeeds in his plan it will be very bad for the owners and the league. He is arguing that league rules are an unfair restraint on trade and that Southwestern Ontario has a right to another club and he has the right to make money by moving his team there. If he wins then any team can move anywhere. Maybe even I don't need an existing team to put a team in Toronto. What happens if LA announces they

are moving to St. John's? Suppose Atlanta decides they can do a better job of making money in Buffalo than the Sabres - just move in and undercut the Sabres until they are forced to move. Probably not a very good business plan but if the league cannot prevent it there might be someone dumb/stubborn enough to try.

The league knows that a team in Hamilton (say) would be very profitable. The owners could hold an auction if they wanted and sell an expansion franchise there for a lot of money. Instead Balsillie has a right to move there? How can the league hope to help out small market teams if any team can move whenever and wherever they want? Soon people will be buying up small market teams, moving them to big markets and then selling them for a quick profit. The league will have lost its ability to approve new owners. No business can operate successfully under these conditions.

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http://www.rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/274443.html

Ok, Bettman might have found his "anti-Balsillie" solution once again (cause we all know how much he hates Balsillie)

The article states, for the Shakespearean who can't read Molière, that a group from Vancouver (with a guy named Gaglardi who also tried to buy the Nucks 5 years ago) could be ready to buy the Trashers and move them to Hamilton for 2010-2011.

Look at how the little hypocrite will manage that...

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Bah, I would rather have the Coyotes. Let's get some new blood in the east!

It strikes me as kind of odd Bettman would consider this if he wasn't worried about the Yotes. Sounds kind of like a compromise. Maybe the NHL isn't as sure about the illegality of what Balsillie is trying as it comes off as.

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Bah, I would rather have the Coyotes. Let's get some new blood in the east!

It strikes me as kind of odd Bettman would consider this if he wasn't worried about the Yotes. Sounds kind of like a compromise. Maybe the NHL isn't as sure about the illegality of what Balsillie is trying as it comes off as.

oh, it doesn't say wheter Bettman is considering it... but :

Bettman is strangely supporting Phoenix while we all know there is no hope... there is something fishy underneath. Is there something mafia-like going on? is the city paying Bettman? is it just Bettman's ego? do they just totally dislike Balsillie?

Regarding the Balsillie disliking... it might be just that... Bettman will just not let Balsillie in, no matter what?!

Bettman never said he was opposed to a new team in Hamilton... I even think he said he was open to that eventually (although he couldn't have explicitly said that, because that would have opened the door to a relocation and he denies that any team is having any problem right now)

All in all, Bettman could have many secret reason for prefering Atlanta to move over Phoenix. that's all speculative obviously.

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The battle for the control of the Trashers looks even more nasty than what's going on in Phoenix.

Either way, I hope Bettman wakes up and allow a team to move back to Canada.

is it just Bettman's ego? do they just totally dislike Balsillie?

I think these are the main factors.

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I don't live in Canada but moving a team into the east and 1 into the west is needed. How many US warm weather teams do they need. Florida, Nashville, Atlanta, Phoenix can barely even make the pay roll.

It would make for a little more exciting fan base, rivalries, etc.

Bettmen has done enough to screw up the NHL under his leadership, letting teams go bankrupt is just another stupid move when there are good Northern cities to fill them.

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I don't live in Canada but moving a team into the east and 1 into the west is needed. How many US warm weather teams do they need. Florida, Nashville, Atlanta, Phoenix can barely even make the pay roll.

It would make for a little more exciting fan base, rivalries, etc.

Bettmen has done enough to screw up the NHL under his leadership, letting teams go bankrupt is just another stupid move when there are good Northern cities to fill them.

they are not logical.

I mean, there is a TON of baseball and basketball teams in the South... as there should be.

why, in hockey, do they try to even up the numbers of north vs south?!!

they should concentrate in the North and have 1/5 teams in the south.

I mean it's way more logical to LOAD the places where people are "naturally" interested... and THEN try to seduce new markets.. they are putting "la charrue avant les boeufs" LOL (french expression -> they are doing things upside down/ in reverse order as they should be doing them)

Is it because the North is not populated enough? I mean Washington State, some place like Maine, Wisconsin... I'm no pro of US geography, but there are a lot of northern states without a Team... and if I knew nothing about NHL, I'd guess that there is a team in Maine way before saying that there is one in Arizona... or one in Wisconsin way before thinking of Tennessee, Georgia or Florida (heck at this rate, when will they have a franchise in New Mexico!!). EVEN Texas is a stretch.

so is there someone who knows the States well enough to explain me why there is not more teams in northern US?!

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Yea, it's funny even here in Colorado the fan base has went the other way. It was all about the Avs when they brought the best team in east over here and they were instant hits, then when they got Roy they were on par with the Broncos. Then a few years of losing and the real hockey fans are the only ones left.

Who wants to go watch a hockey game when it's 80 degrees outside? I think getting "fringe" fans interested is kind of worthless, remember all the dumb things they did to attract fans, how about that stupid glow puck thing on TV? That was bad, The rolling camara to show the speed was another stinker.

Back when Bettmen wanted to expand he went for the highest bidder and the most box seats sold. That's why so many in the south compared to the North.

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Yea, it's funny even here in Colorado the fan base has went the other way. It was all about the Avs when they brought the best team in east over here and they were instant hits, then when they got Roy they were on par with the Broncos. Then a few years of losing and the real hockey fans are the only ones left.

Who wants to go watch a hockey game when it's 80 degrees outside? I think getting "fringe" fans interested is kind of worthless, remember all the dumb things they did to attract fans, how about that stupid glow puck thing on TV? That was bad, The rolling camara to show the speed was another stinker.

Back when Bettmen wanted to expand he went for the highest bidder and the most box seats sold. That's why so many in the south compared to the North.

well, it's that way for every team though.

Chicago was close to bankruptcy like 2 years ago and it's an original 6.

Before the lockout the habs were losing money (questionable... but some years, they weren't filling the booth and the tv ratings weren't so good... I guess if you look at the lineup for the 1999-2000 season, that might be "the year" they lost money.)

that's just normal... is colorado worse than that? that's sad if it is. I thought it was a good hockey city.

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Chicago's owner was the problem there. he never allowed any televised games, not much to attract fans back to a proud franchise.

He was fine having a crappy team and making money. Once his son i beleive took over the Blackhawks came back strong.

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NICE

game 1 of the Phoenix - NHL battle has been won by Phoenix

http://www.rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/274613.html

:clap:

(it doesn't say much, besides that Phoenix "won" in court and that the NHL will have to disclose the details of the offer from the White Sox owner)

go Phoenix!

I wouldn't celebrate too much yet, the NHL filed an objection to the ruling this morning, claiming no such deal existed. I heard on the radio this afternoon that technically Jerry Reinsdorf is not the head guy behind a bid to keep them there, but moreso a secondary guy. Given the technicalities that appear in things like this, perhaps the objection is claiming that a deal with him is not done and is premature...who knows?

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=278453

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Raise your hands with me if you think Balsillie should instead buy the Habs and move them to Kitchener!

:lol:

Wow, It's going bad for the Coyotes. Other candidates said they would fire Gretzky cuz they don't see a coach earning 4 times more than the league average.

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