Dalhabs Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 It isn't fair to compare him to what we could have had in Vinny. Gainey made an offer for Lecavalier and their ownership nixed it. Vinny wasn't an option. It's more like this vs giving up something similar for Briere vs giving up more than this for Marleau vs keeping Koivu/Lang vs trying your luck at the UFA market. It was probably a decision between Subban and McDonagh and Gainey chose McDonagh. Not necessarily a bad decision but I don't see why we had to throw in either of them. We have Fischer, Weber, O'byrne, Emelin, Bennett and Carle to offer. The thing is that I still think Vinny can be that 90-100 point/year player... in Gomez I see a new Koivu with twice the salary. AND we lost Higgins AND Mcdonagh in that deal. I hope someone burns Gaineys car or something else that doesnt hurt someone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 It isn't fair to compare him to what we could have had in Vinny. Gainey made an offer for Lecavalier and their ownership nixed it. Vinny wasn't an option. It's more like this vs giving up something similar for Briere vs giving up more than this for Marleau vs keeping Koivu/Lang vs trying your luck at the UFA market. It was probably a decision between Subban and McDonagh and Gainey chose McDonagh. Not necessarily a bad decision but I don't see why we had to throw in either of them. We have Fischer, Weber, O'byrne, Emelin, Bennett and Carle to offer. What I dont understand is why Gainey gave so much for a player inferior or as good as Tanguay without even making an offer to Tanguay first? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MFT77 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Let's remember that the Habs got the best player in the deal and usually that is the winner of the deal. We'll only know for sure in like 5 years if McD becomes a top pairing d-man. What I dont understand is why Gainey gave so much for a player inferior or as good as Tanguay without even making an offer to Tanguay first? Might try to get Tangs and Koivu signed now. Let's hope so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 If so then I would be relieved to hear that! Hard to say if he did or didn't at this point, he has one of the rare "Progressive No-Trade Clauses" out there (I may have made that term up, but it's accurate). Each year, Gomez adds 3 teams to his list of teams he won't accept a trade to. It's been 2 years, so 6 teams are on that list currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted June 30, 2009 Author Share Posted June 30, 2009 What I dont understand is why Gainey gave so much for a player inferior or as good as Tanguay without even making an offer to Tanguay first? Why Tanguay couldn't be signed too ? Don't have to be a long term contract... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 It's all on Gomez being a 70-85 point player. It's about us making the playoffs and winning when we're there. If he can be. If we're still spending countless shifts in our zone because our D sucks and our forwards dont know how to play in their zone, you can forget that 70-85 pts. Gomez is far from a Selke winner, so he's no help there. I wonder if Martin had any say, and if he has a specific role or plan for Gomez. I'd be a little less pissed off if I knew the coach had a real plan that required a player exactly like Gomez; rather than Bob "settling" for the C with the best resume. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PMAC Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Hard to say if he did or didn't at this point, he has one of the rare "Progressive No-Trade Clauses" out there (I may have made that term up, but it's accurate). Each year, Gomez adds 3 teams to his list of teams he won't accept a trade to. It's been 2 years, so 6 teams are on that list currently. Aside from the fact that we overpaid, IMHO because the Rags need(ed) cap space does anyone else worry about the timing? IF I were going to make this trade I would make sure to have my free agents signed before giving my competition cap space to bid on them. What a kick in the ass it would be to have Sather use his cap savings to sign Komi. ARRRAGGGH! I hope I'm wrong, but has Bob been possessed by the spirit of Reggie Houle? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 What I dont understand is why Gainey gave so much for a player inferior or as good as Tanguay without even making an offer to Tanguay first? Well, the obvious answer is that Gomez is a C and Tanguay is much better as a winger. I'm not totally sure about our cap situation now but I think we still have the cap space to re-sign Tanguay? What's about to happen won't be pretty. Either Bob dishes out the rest of our cash on Komi (overpayment, the fans go nuts), or he uses it to re-sign Tanguay (possible overpayment, the fans go nuts) and he wind up with a mediocre D, or he tries his luck on UFA. I think he might have the intention of signing Brian Gionta (who's a UFA) and re-uniting him with Gomez. They've had success together playing with Elias (Kovalev) in a defensive system (like Martin's). But no matter what happens, the one constant is that the fans will go nuts. I can't see anything Bob can do this offseason that will "redeem" himself in the fans' eyes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 What I dont understand is why Gainey gave so much for a player inferior or as good as Tanguay without even making an offer to Tanguay first? cause Gainey has until 12pm tom to do so... With Gomez he didnt have that luxury... Obviously there must have been someone else who wanted Gomez!... Gomez was being shopped around weeks ago! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nhfarber Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 But no matter what happens, the one constant is that the fans will go nuts. I can't see anything Bob can do this offseason that will "redeem" himself in the fans' eyes. I think this sums it up pretty much. I dont love the deal, but I think we've reached a point where some people are critical of Bob Gainey because he woke up this morning and was still Bob Gainey. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 When Gainey shows himself in Bell centre next season it will be like his name would be Gary Bettman. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) I really think people are overreacting a bit. I mean, Habs Inside Out, it's like the end of the world. Comparisons to the Roy and Chelios deals, etc. Interestingly, the reaction on the RDS site seems to be much more positive. Is this a steal for Gainey? Obviously not! BUT: -Pyatt projects to be a legitimate NHLer. This is important to consider when we evaluate the loss of McDonagh. We didn't JUST 'lose' McDonagh. We got a solid prospect back. -We got the best player by some distance. -The salary needs to be balanced off against what we'd pay Higgins versus what we'll pay Higgins' replacement. We will SAVE millions on the Higgins replacement. That should be considered before we just throw ourselves off a bridge because Gomez is overpaid. -'Gomez is another Koivu...' Well, he's arguably better than Koivu in the latter's prime, and is a country mile better than Koivu right now. Whoever said 'the Habs just got younger, faster, and better' is quite right. Again, not saying this is a heist...just that I don't think this trade warrants the hate being spewed toward it. Edited June 30, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I'll have to wait and see what Bob does with our UFA situation and how he manages the rest of our cap space. If he goes shopping and comes back with more overpaid consolation prizes like Hamrlik or Gomez, I'll be pissed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 The thing is that I still think Vinny can be that 90-100 point/year player... in Gomez I see a new Koivu with twice the salary. AND we lost Higgins AND Mcdonagh in that deal. I hope someone burns Gaineys car or something else that doesnt hurt someone. What I was saying is that Gainey tried very, very hard for maybe several years to haul in Vinny... and he had a deal in place... and the other team's ownership vetoed it. So he had to go on to Plan B. (I assume this was Plan B - still better than our usual Plan D). Vinny would have been better BUT Tampa refused to trade Vinny. Nothing we can do about that. I think this sums it up pretty much. I dont love the deal, but I think we've reached a point where some people are critical of Bob Gainey because he woke up this morning and was still Bob Gainey. And with each new move, more people are being converted to the anti-Gainey side. If the Habs miss the playoffs, he's fired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflhabfan Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 is irv grundman still alive??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 But no matter what happens, the one constant is that the fans will go nuts. I can't see anything Bob can do this offseason that will "redeem" himself in the fans' eyes. He has a long way to go to redeem himself, as far as trades go. He doesnt really have a good track record for trades/UFAs. At best his grade would be 50%. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) I'll have to wait and see what Bob does with our UFA situation and how he manages the rest of our cap space. If he goes shopping and comes back with more overpaid consolation prizes like Hamrlik or Gomez, I'll be pissed. That I will agree with you! BUT that's the reality of our situation. a player needs to have the mental toughness of George Laraques AND even better be french canadian =(habs fan) to wanna play in MTL... so be prepared to get pissed Edited June 30, 2009 by CoRvInA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I think this sums it up pretty much. I dont love the deal, but I think we've reached a point where some people are critical of Bob Gainey because he woke up this morning and was still Bob Gainey. The one thing working against Bob is anticipation. We wait and wait and we know he's working in the shadows and we wait and wait and anticipate... and when he finally moves, it's almost never what we expected, and often less than we anticipated. So disappointment and frustration are the first reaction. "What? All that talk just for this? This?! This is the best he could do? Really?" before people accept it. That I will agree with you! BUT that's the reality of our situation. you have the mental toughness of George laraques AND even better be french canadian =(habs fan) to wanna play in MTL ?! Not sure I get what you mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 What I dont understand is why Gainey gave so much for a player inferior or as good as Tanguay without even making an offer to Tanguay first? yah. that would be my main problem if I wasn't blindfolding my eyes and crying out loud "IN GAINEY I TRUST, IN GAINEY I TRUST" endlessly, just not to hear all the critics. oh shit. seriously, I agree with you. This is not THAT BAD of a trade. It had to be made. but of all people? We COULD have kept Tanguay and traded for another center?? no? I guess no, if we ended up with Gomez? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alexstream Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Well, the obvious answer is that Gomez is a C and Tanguay is much better as a winger. I'm not totally sure about our cap situation now but I think we still have the cap space to re-sign Tanguay? What's about to happen won't be pretty. Either Bob dishes out the rest of our cash on Komi (overpayment, the fans go nuts), or he uses it to re-sign Tanguay (possible overpayment, the fans go nuts) and he wind up with a mediocre D, or he tries his luck on UFA. I think he might have the intention of signing Brian Gionta (who's a UFA) and re-uniting him with Gomez. They've had success together playing with Elias (Kovalev) in a defensive system (like Martin's). But no matter what happens, the one constant is that the fans will go nuts. I can't see anything Bob can do this offseason that will "redeem" himself in the fans' eyes. 2 things : Gomez consistently plays over 20-21 mins. (as per Pat Burns) Tanguay rarely played over 15-16 mins in MTL. (can we use one season as a basis?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 (edited) BTH, alexistream, I'm with you guys. Look, Gomez is a talented and exciting player with elite offensive skills. He is a classic 'Montreal Canadiens'-type player, fleet of foot, great vision; AND he's a proven winner who raises his game when it counts. It's one thing to say we overpaid in this deal, that losing McDonagh hurts us, that the cap hit is worrisome, etc.; but we don't need to dismiss Gomez as a 'consolation prize' or jeer his value as a hockey player. WE JUST GOT AN EXCELLENT CENTREMAN. Chill out, folks! Edited June 30, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dalhabs Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 He doesnt sound so happy about the trade. CKAC interview right now http://www.corussports.com/audio.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mathieu30 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I like Gomez" skating!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I think this sums it up pretty much. I dont love the deal, but I think we've reached a point where some people are critical of Bob Gainey because he woke up this morning and was still Bob Gainey. in paticular on this board. look at the deal as it stands. we traded higgins for gomez not koivu not lang not tanguay. if someone trys to tell me that higgins is better than gomez. he needs his head read. gomez could be a great asset as a 1st line centre. we will see how it works out. Giving up on Mcdo is regretable but in order to make a trade you have to give something up. Bob said he is going in a different direction. so fasten your seat belt we are going in a different direction. Not offering tanguay etc contracts was to give himself the maximum cap room to make a deal like this. if you had listened to him that is what he said. Yes gomez is overpaid. but if we win a cup who cares? There are more moves on the go. And tanguay ain't gone yet komi maybe. Gomez is a better centre than koivu at this stage of his career. Bob is not going the discount route anymore apparently. :hlogo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Look, Gomez is a talented and exciting player with elite offensive skills. He is a classic 'Montreal Canadiens'-type player, fleet of foot, great vision; AND he's a proven winner who raises his game when it counts. It's one thing to say we overpaid in this deal, that losing McDonagh hurts us, that the cap hit is worrisome, etc.; but we don't need to dismiss Gomez as a 'consolation prize' or jeer his value as a hockey player. WE JUST GOT AN EXCELLENT CENTREMAN. Chill out, folks! I wouldnt say "excellent". He's not a complete player: he's a passer. He has a good resume (2 cups and good playoffs), I'll give him that, but he averages 17 goals, 50 assist for 67 pts. Remember people have whined for years that "Saku needs good wingers", well with Gomez it'll be the same old song. If his wingers dont score often, he'll be virtually useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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