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Bob Gainey is an Idiot


hab29RETIRED

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Because we finished 1st in the east in year 4, got better for year 5 and happen to struggle with injuries and sophomore slumps and finished with...

Wait for it....

9 points less?

Bad years happen. We had one last year. I wish everyone would stop thinking it defined Bob's 5 year plan. He obviously was on the right track.

This post sums up everything imho.

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Because we finished 1st in the east in year 4, got better for year 5 and happen to struggle with injuries and sophomore slumps and finished with...

Wait for it....

9 points less?

Bad years happen. We had one last year. I wish everyone would stop thinking it defined Bob's 5 year plan. He obviously was on the right track.

seb you are totally right, HOWEVER,

Kovalev, Koivu etc were still there for most of the year and failed as a team to avoid the BIG slump.

It's not so much the point total as the way they got there.

They were ONE OF THE WORST TEAM for the 2nd half of the season. Something happened, Carbo witnessed it, got fired because of it and Bob tried to salvage the TEAM by going down in the locker room, find each and every guilty soul and let them either walk or just ship them away (?! speculating a bit. btw, it doesn't mean that all those who walked away were guilty)

So you are totally right in saying that Bob's primary plan wasn't a failure. However, something in it got rotten and he had to somehow change the direction of that plan a bit. We're not out of it though, we just changed the leaders. however all the replacing pieces are still in the system (except for Mcdo)

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that was poor answer to a different question. This is simply not worth my time. You have no proof at all that komi wanted 4mill 7 years or any of the other stuff. You are just listening to shit.

WHy must you be so rude? :rolleyes:

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Bottom Line, and it's an obvious observation, we've lost a lot of talent for NOTHING. Our opinion of each player, the contract status, the time of year, the centennial. The freaking weather, I don't care, it's shocking.

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Bottom Line, and it's an obvious observation, we've lost a lot of talent for NOTHING. Our opinion of each player, the contract status, the time of year, the centennial. The freaking weather, I don't care, it's shocking.

There is no way we could have get the talent we have now by trading the old talent. We didn't lost a lot of talent for nothing, we lost it for CAP SPACE to get new talent, and younger talent.

Edit : I should not be allowed to use the word talent again until 2015 or so.

Edited by JoeLassister
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There is no way we could have get the talent we have now by trading the old talent. We didn't lost a lot of talent for nothing, we lost it for CAP SPACE to get new talent, and younger talent.

Edit : I should not be allowed to use the word talent again until 2015 or so.

I hear you, the cap is certainly an issue. At least you made me laugh, not being able to use the word talent!!!!

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Bottom Line, and it's an obvious observation, we've lost a lot of talent for NOTHING. Our opinion of each player, the contract status, the time of year, the centennial. The freaking weather, I don't care, it's shocking.

Er...

We also gained a lot of talent.

For nothing.

Just sayin'.

This is the nature of the hockey business world. Sometimes team building means making decisions such as this. Be glad it isn't the pro soccer world where players sign long-term contracts then demand new contracts with higher wages the next season.

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Er...

We also gained a lot of talent.

For nothing.

Just sayin'.

This is the nature of the hockey business world. Sometimes team building means making decisions such as this. Be glad it isn't the pro soccer world where players sign long-term contracts then demand new contracts with higher wages the next season.

Bob is a genius. :bow: Bob :bow:

Mara and Camm have to be one of the best signings this offseason, while the jury will be out on Gionta and Gill (but I'm think that as a 6th D, Gill will be excellent and Gionta always scored 60 pts on the 2nd line... so he can't do worse than that, which is good for 1st or 2nd in pts in almost any edition of the Habs for the last 10 years!!!)

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Bob is a genius. :bow: Bob :bow:

Mara and Camm have to be one of the best signings this offseason, while the jury will be out on Gionta and Gill (but I'm think that as a 6th D, Gill will be excellent and Gionta always scored 60 pts on the 2nd line... so he can't do worse than that, which is good for 1st or 2nd in pts in almost any edition of the Habs for the last 10 years!!!)

If by standing in line with everyone else at 12:01pm July 1st and opening up his wallet more than anyone else would classifies him as being a genius I guess by all means crown the man.

Cammalleri - good signing however $6M is only valid if he can produce 35G+ since his three full seasons he's avg'd 33G/yr. I guess you need to drop $6M these days on a 5'9" 180lb 30+ goal scorer so I can justify that as long as it continues.

Gionta - at 5'7" 175lb someone will need to make space out there for him to be effective, and I hope his last two full seasons of 20G and 22G are not an indication of his future production for a $5M/yr man but we'll have to wait and see.

Gomez - $7.5M for a guy that has averaged 19G and 68pts his last four seasons is part of the reason this is widely regarded as one of the worst contracts in hockey. I really want to believe Bob didn't get absolutely HOSED on this deal, I really do. His playoff numbers are much better at approx 1pt/game.

Please prove us wrong Bob, because this is your sword to fall on now.

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If by standing in line with everyone else at 12:01pm July 1st and opening up his wallet more than anyone else would classifies him as being a genius I guess by all means crown the man.

Cammalleri - good signing however $6M is only valid if he can produce 35G+ since his three full seasons he's avg'd 33G/yr. I guess you need to drop $6M these days on a 5'9" 180lb 30+ goal scorer so I can justify that as long as it continues.

Gionta - at 5'7" 175lb someone will need to make space out there for him to be effective, and I hope his last two full seasons of 20G and 22G are not an indication of his future production for a $5M/yr man but we'll have to wait and see.

Gomez - $7.5M for a guy that has averaged 19G and 68pts his last four seasons is part of the reason this is widely regarded as one of the worst contracts in hockey. I really want to believe Bob didn't get absolutely HOSED on this deal, I really do. His playoff numbers are much better at approx 1pt/game.

Please prove us wrong Bob, because this is your sword to fall on now.

here is my reply : post #28 of this thread

http://forums.habsworld.net/index.php?s=&a...st&p=361663

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seb you are totally right, HOWEVER,

Kovalev, Koivu etc were still there for most of the year and failed as a team to avoid the BIG slump.

It's not so much the point total as the way they got there.

They were ONE OF THE WORST TEAM for the 2nd half of the season. Something happened, Carbo witnessed it, got fired because of it and Bob tried to salvage the TEAM by going down in the locker room, find each and every guilty soul and let them either walk or just ship them away (?! speculating a bit. btw, it doesn't mean that all those who walked away were guilty)

So you are totally right in saying that Bob's primary plan wasn't a failure. However, something in it got rotten and he had to somehow change the direction of that plan a bit. We're not out of it though, we just changed the leaders. however all the replacing pieces are still in the system (except for Mcdo)

Yeah, I totally agree. I was defending Bob, and not the team (not a counter argument, just saying). I believe those who think Bob is an idiot are very short sighted and have a difficult time seeing the big picture. I completely endorse a remodelling of the team as Bob has done. Sure, I could bitch and moan about how small and overpayed our players are now, but if he could have done better, he would have. If Bob didn't think this team could be competitive with what he signed, he wouldn't have signed them.

We have as good a shot at 1st in the east again as anyone else. We're all at 0 points. We can talk about how good Bob's moves are once a year or two has passed, since we all know hindsight is 20-20. Everything now is just opinions.

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First of all Alexstream your the man! well said and nicely argued! :clap:

Secondly I also vote to change the title of this post!

Hey, can the mods perhaps change the title of this thread? I understand everyone has their opinions, but calling one of the Habs greats an idiot because you're unhappy with his latest moves is a bit juvenile, and frankly makes the board look a little unprofessional.

:blink:

may I suggest a new title.. "Mission Impossible 6: Bob Gainey Cleans up!" or

" Did Bob Gainey accomplish his mission? "

Edited by Chips
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First of all Alexstream your the man! well said and nicely argued! :clap:

Secondly I also vote to change the title of this post!

:blink:

may I suggest a new title.. "Mission Impossible 6: Bob Gainey Cleans up!" or

" Did Bob Gainey accomplish his mission? "

+1. Let's wait and see what happens.

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gotta tellya with the 2 guys we added today we just got a little tougher. We might have some smaller guys but we got some bigger one s too. I am really liking the looks of this.

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We have as good a shot at 1st in the east again as anyone else.

I still think Boston is a lock for number 1 in the east!

With the acquisition of Mara and Moen, we got bigger, which was needed. We'll fght for positions 5, 6 7 or 8.

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WHy must you be so rude? :rolleyes:

because i don't like people who hear stuff no verification and it becomes gospel on boards like this. I have looked and there simply is no verification of this anywhere. If it is your opinion fine but then state it as such. But there is actually no way that this information would be available to only one guy. I want this site to be real not an ek #2. He makes it up as he goes along. up untill saku signed with the ducks he had saku coming back "because something happened monday night" all bullshit cause ther were no talks after bob said bye saku we are not signing you. KEEP IT REAL

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I still think Boston is a lock for number 1 in the east!

With the acquisition of Mara and Moen, we got bigger, which was needed. We'll fght for positions 5, 6 7 or 8.

I think Boston will follow Monteal's route and not have as strong of a season.

The habs went from first to 8th in a total collapse, and now the Bruins will falter as well (just not start 27-8-4 then fall apart ala Montreal)

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Mara (who has played with Gomez, Gionta and Gill) said that all the new players coming to Montreal feel like they're joining a Cup contending team and that anythign less than a Cup will make this season a disappointment. (Moen said similar stuff).

My question is what the ###### is going on? Montreal - a place where no free agents want to go - being lead by Bob Gainey - a GM who hasn't had much success luring free agents in the past - is coming off one of the most disastrous seasons in our history, and an offseason where all 10 of our free agents (including our entire core) has walked away, has managed to lure in SIX free agents without seriously overpaying for any of them... and all of them are expecting a huge season. WHY are these guys so excited to play here? lol I'm not complaining, but these guys need to have their heads checked. Scott Gomez isn't THAT good. :P

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Mara (who has played with Gomez, Gionta and Gill) said that all the new players coming to Montreal feel like they're joining a Cup contending team and that anythign less than a Cup will make this season a disappointment. (Moen said similar stuff).

My question is what the ###### is going on? Montreal - a place where no free agents want to go - being lead by Bob Gainey - a GM who hasn't had much success luring free agents in the past - is coming off one of the most disastrous seasons in our history, and an offseason where all 10 of our free agents (including our entire core) has walked away, has managed to lure in SIX free agents without seriously overpaying for any of them... and all of them are expecting a huge season. WHY are these guys so excited to play here? lol I'm not complaining, but these guys need to have their heads checked. Scott Gomez isn't THAT good. :P

maybe Bob Gainey is :hlogo:

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Mara (who has played with Gomez, Gionta and Gill) said that all the new players coming to Montreal feel like they're joining a Cup contending team and that anythign less than a Cup will make this season a disappointment. (Moen said similar stuff).

My question is what the ###### is going on? Montreal - a place where no free agents want to go - being lead by Bob Gainey - a GM who hasn't had much success luring free agents in the past - is coming off one of the most disastrous seasons in our history, and an offseason where all 10 of our free agents (including our entire core) has walked away, has managed to lure in SIX free agents without seriously overpaying for any of them... and all of them are expecting a huge season. WHY are these guys so excited to play here? lol I'm not complaining, but these guys need to have their heads checked. Scott Gomez isn't THAT good. :P

I feel you on the "out of the blue" factor, it's great to be on the other side of it after tearing my hear out every damn year reading about FAs we wanted signing elsewhere. It also depends on what your definition of "seriously" overpaying is. I think Gionta and Gill are significantly overpaid, and Cammalleri got AT LEAST his market value. Mind you, I'm not arguing with the results of Bob's summer overall, and I am cautiously optimistic, but we also need to check our expectations. I'm glad Mara and Moen feel the way they do, and it's certainly great to get them at below-market value, but.....New coach, new system, lots of new guys. This could go either way, and if this group doesn't come together early enough, that still doesn't mean that this is a failed experiment. I hope we (collectively, as fans) maintain patience and give these guys enough time to gel.

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Scott Gomez isn't THAT good. :P

I'm hoping Habs fans will learn that he really is. Just because he was smothered in a horrid Ranger atmosphere doesn't mean he lost his skills.

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I'm hoping Habs fans will learn that he really is. Just because he was smothered in a horrid Ranger atmosphere doesn't mean he lost his skills.

I know he's good, but good enough to lure other players? Pretty much every single team has a better player on their roster.

Cammalleri said he signed here because of Gomez and he liked the direction the team was going in. (This was after the "horrible" Gomez trade and all 10 of our free agents had hit the free agent market... and all we'd done was bring in Spacek and Gill.)

Gionta came here because of Gomez.

And now read these quotes from today's Gazette:

Dave Stubbs: "Both players said last evening they chose Montreal because they see the revamped Canadiens as an opportunity to challenge for the Cup."

Mara: "The chemistry issue both on and off the ice won't be a problem. Guys they've brought in are character guys as well as quality players. All the guys, and I talked to Scott Gomez today, have a goal of winning the Stanley Cup. Anything short of that and we'll be disappointed."

Moen: "There's disappointment every year you don't win the Cup. I'm coming to Montreal because I think there's a good chance. There's a lot of history in Montreal and they look like they're going to have a great team again."

What's interesting is that TSN and most outside news sources have been blasting the Habs left, right and centre ever since the Gomez trade. The fans too have been calling for Gainey's head at many of his moves (and most of them have low expectations anyway after last season). Meanwhile, the players seem to think Montreal is the place to be this season and that we'll win the Cup.

What - is - going - on? It's like Bettman refuses to let the Habs suck and is forcing UFA to sign here.

Their confidence is very uplifting though. I do think that we're an even better team on paper than we were last year - and that last year we were an even better team on paper than we were the year we won the East. We're just a tough top 6 forward, some chemistry and some goalie confidence away from being a serious Cup contender. (That means Pacioretty and/or Latendresse.)

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How about we change the title of this thing, to some people thought Bob was an idiot and now very quiet. :lol: :hlogo:

Nope. Still thing it is utter STUPIDITY to lose the core of your team without getting any return. Just the number of 1st rounders lost without a return (Hainsey, Komi) or from seriously overpaying for the worst contract in hockey (Higgins, McDonough), as well as losing as many top 4 dmen or top six forwards for nothing during the last 3 years (Souray, Streit, Ryder, Kovy, Tanguay, Koivu) is incredible STUPID asset management. I don't think any team has lost that many assets without any return.

I get that he signed a bunch of FA and didn't give up anything (Gionta, Cammeleri, Moen, Mara, Spacek, Hill), but so do all the teams that are prime free agent destinations - but they have still got a return for the guys that they didn't fit in their plans or didn't want to keep for salary cap reasons (toronto - Kubina, NYR - Gomez).

If I gave up as many assets in the business world without getting any return I would be fired. To me the length of the contracts Bob has signed these guys is evidence that he made mistakes in the past. When he signed his own players it has always been to 1-2 or at the most 3 year deals. Andrei Kostitsyn should have been signed to a longer term deal - as it is I can see the Habs losing him for nothing in 2 years. Komi and Higgins should both have been signed to longer term deals two years ago. That is what good GM's do. Identify their blue chip assets and tie them down. If later you don't want them, at least you get a return for them.

With the current RA's, Pleks and Lats should be signed to a longer term deals - even if it means giving them more then what they are worth right now, because in the end it will cost them too much to keep them.

The only two resignings bob has made that I've liked are Gorges (great return for the salary cap hit) and Markov and the only good in the past couple of years that I liked at the time of the deas was the Rivet trade. I hated the Lang trade bcoz I thought he was washed up, but that was the only one that looking back was a good move and would have been a great move had it not been for a freak injury.

Every other trade made, Bob has given up too many assets or undervalued the players he was giving up in relation to the return received (Ribeiro, Valentenko/Higgins/Mcdonough, Draft picks for Tanguay).

I'm not saying I wanted the habs to keep every player that walked this year. The only three I would have liked back were Komi, Koivu and Higgins. I absolutely wanted nothing to do with Tanguay even when the habs traded for him. If Bob had no intention of keeping his FA's their rights should have been traded at the deadline. Moreover, Tangauy and Komi should have been signed when they were hurt. A policy of refusing to negotiate during the year is utter STUPIDITY. You are losing the entire advantage you have contractually over the other teams if you don't sign guys to long term deals.

I think Bob should have tried to move his other bad contracts as well - Hamrlik and Laraque. The habs have now gotten three guys that I've had a chance to see first hand in Calgary that the flames didn't want anything to do with - the worst of which was Tangauy.

I also think that Bob is really rolling the dice by signing a 20 goal scorer to a 5 year/$5M contract, as well as trading for the worst contract in hockey, bcoz their cap hits could cripple us for years. What the hell are we going to do if Kosty does finally break out and has a 40 goal year and Price does actually play like a thoroughbred and they become FA's????? Why wasn't Kosty signed to a longer term contract after last year that averaged out to around $4M to $4.5M. Every other team has made it a point to get their key assets signed to longer term deals. Bob only does it for second tier free agents. I really like Cammeleri but $6M is rolling the dice, because there is no Iginla that other teams are going to be keying on when Cammalleri is on the ice.

It seems that Bob is still acting like he is operating under a non-cap system and isn't learning the rules (i.e. losing Hainsey after making the same mistake with Beachiman). With all the bodies we have, unless Bob starts moving some guys, we are going to expose other assets to waivers (like Chipcura), because as it is there is no room for them on the roster.

I WANT the habs to succeed, I have never cheered for any other team since I became a hockey fan at the age of 4 1/2 in 1975 and was always a HUGE fan of the captain who played with two separated shoulders in the playoffs (unlike Tangauy), and was happy when he came over to take over a sinking ship, but you'll have to forgive me if I'm not all that optimistic over the moves made, when all we did was replace a 2nd line centre with younger 2nd line centre being asked to be a first line centre at double the salary.

Unless Bob is able to dump other bad contracts (Hamrlik - entire career has only had one decent year for the teams he has played with and always a non factor in the playoffs, Laraque - being paid $1.5M to give interviews on how great it is to be a vegetarian and other useless things on his useless blog, but doesn't realize what his job is when other teams run over Price).

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