REV-G Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 For quite a while most everyone believed that we have needed a top 1st line centre. With the addition of Scott Gomez it seems Bob Gainey feels like that top priority has been filled. But I wonder if now our top priority has just shifted from needing a 1st line centre to now needing a solid 2nd line centre who can score? Our current remaining centers, candidates for the 2nd line centre postion, are Plekanec, Lapierre, Metropolit, Chipchura, Maxwell and Johansson. I think out of this group only Plekanec is realistically a candidate to possibly come close to being the top 2nd line centre who we need to bring scoring and playmaking ability so we can have two solid, scoring, dangerous top lines. But last regular season Plekanec's number weren't great if we expect to not just make the playoffs but be a legitimate contender. In 80 games he scored 20 goals, 19 assists and was -9. If we're going to upgrade, this has got to be the next top priority, unless Plekanec can raise his performance. I think we have the potential to have a very good 1st line, we'll have a very good 3d line and a tough 4th line, but since we've made so many changes already, I hope Bob isn't finished yet because if he can get us a really good, legitimate 2nd line centre we may have the strongest lineup in years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I don't see Pleks becoming a true number 2 centre, but I have a bad feeling we are going to have to watch him try. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JLP Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Laps can do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Plekanec's numbers over the past 2 years are more than acceptable for a 2nd line C. He had confidence issues all year and still potted 20 goals in the end. This season will be more about reducing goals against than how many goals a particular player scores anyways. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I don't see Pleks becoming a true number 2 centre, but I have a bad feeling we are going to have to watch him try. why not ?? he did score 69 points a few years ago. to me that's top 2 centre points. yes he didn't have the same amount of points last year but what if last year was only a fluke ?? Do we want to trade him away and see him become another Ribeiro ?? Laps can do it! whats the love with Lapierre ?? he had his best year so far, yet he only scored 28 points. Let him become a great 3rd liner instead of hoping for him to become 2nd line. I really hope Chipchura finds his niche with the club...if not: good riddance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 why not ?? he did score 69 points a few years ago. to me that's top 2 centre points. yes he didn't have the same amount of points last year but what if last year was only a fluke ?? Do we want to trade him away and see him become another Ribeiro ?? Agree, Pleks is the guy to start the season at the very least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 20 goals out of a 2nd line centre isn't bad. He also can kill panalties, great speed. Obviously his faults are he plays like a girl most of the time and needs to have more assits. But he is ok for this year, my guess is the writting is on the wall for him, play well this year or your gone. He may be gone before that anyways. AK46 will need to have a big year to help him out as well. He may be next to be moved. So it wouldn't surprise me if BG is looking but the trade would be for a similar salary, i don't see a big deal coming around. He has some young centers under contract who may make Pleks expendable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 why not ?? he did score 69 points a few years ago. to me that's top 2 centre points. yes he didn't have the same amount of points last year but what if last year was only a fluke ?? Do we want to trade him away and see him become another Ribeiro ?? You forget his 69 points were with #1 centre ice time, on the # 1 line at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 You forget his 69 points were with #1 centre ice time, on the # 1 line at the time. so he did put up decent numbers as a number one yet people dont want him as a second ?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I think people want him to show up during critical times and when the team needs someone to make something happen. I could be wrong but i don't think people are necassarily saying he is a bad player, just can he take the next step and improve. Here is his chance, no Kovalev, He should be playing with AK46 and Pacioretty (other younger player) will he step up or disappear. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 I'm all for giving Pleks another year to redeem himself. At this point I think he's the best option for our #2 C. As much as I love Lapierre, and as so many have stated, I think he's better suited for a 3rd line, checking role. Pleks just needs to regain his confidence, and I think the simple-minded hockey that Cammalleri, Gomez and Gionta play will rub off on him. Martin can only help. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 You forget his 69 points were with #1 centre ice time, on the # 1 line at the time. So because he succeeded as our first line centre, he isn't good enough to be a #2? He has three consecutive 20 goal seasons. He needs to rack up the assists, which he will if he's playing with Kostitsyn and Cammalleri. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soflhabfan Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 with the constant shuffling of forwards in and out of the lineup, due to injuries to both body and mind, it was hard for plek to get anything going. he needs another chance. laps is NOT a second line centre.he has a ways to go yet. i think plek will rebound . if not, hello marleau. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted July 20, 2009 Share Posted July 20, 2009 Pleks had one good year with Kovalev playing like he should. Kovalev made Pleks look good, not the other way around. I don't see Pleks as a major play maker and he always disappears in the playoffs. While I hope he proves me wrong, I suspect people will eventually realize that those 69 points were a career best, not a career average. (and 69 points is not number 1 kind of guy, imo). If he could do 69 points with average linemates, then I will happily declare him a perfectly good number 2 guy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Pleks is a perimeter player, doesnt have size, has speed and is a really good 2 way player. That sounds like a #3 C to me. Pleks is afraid of being hit, but he can and does hit. Not liking getting hit isnt #2 C characteristic. Pleks does hit, and that is a #3 C responsibility. Laps has a nose for the net, has size, has speed and is a good 2 way guy. That sounds like a #2 C to me. Sure Laps doesnt have a lot of Assists, but dont forget that Kosto was his linemate and he isnt the most prolific scorer out there. I honestly think that both players production would go up with swapping their roles. Plekz on the 3rd line will have 2 wingers who go to the net, so he can still be open from where he usually scores from. Laps on the 2nd line will be the 1 with size who buzzes around the oppositions net, he'll have wingers who can accept his passes and will know exactly what to do with the puck when they get it. If Laps plays with 2 wingers who score 25+ G then I'm quite sure his worrisome low Assist totals would skyrocket. After all its kinda hard to surpass your linemates total goal production in assists. When your wingers score less than 25 G total its kinda hard to have 40+ Assists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 You have to look at the big picture. Plex's PPG average increased constantly in his first 3 seasons in Montreal: 0.49, 0.58, 0.85. Last season he regressed to 0.49 in a year where almost everybody else on the team regressed. Looking at his AHL numbers also, I think Plex will hover more or less around 0.8 PPG avg. That's close to 65 pts per season, including 20+ goals. He also kills penalties very well, good work ethic, highly coachable. It's a good deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Laps might have offensive upside, but I dont think at this point of his career it'd be wise to put point production pressure on him. He's not at that stage yet. He was never expected to be an offensive player, it was never his intended career role. Let it come to him naturally when he's succeeded in his role; dont force it upon him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 No offense but I think its funny how you say put point production pressure on him. I cant see how that could happen. All Laps would have to do is touch the puck every once in a while and his wingers end up with it and score = +1 Assist to Laps. I dont think Laps would have to drastically change anything to put up higher point totals if he plays with 2 wingers who are high G producers. Hypothetically speaking wouldnt it be less pressure for Laps to produce offensively if he had Mario Lemieux on his wing? i.e. Laps would just have to be there to get an Assist and playing with Tom K would put more pressure on Laps to produce offensively? i.e. Laps would have to do the majority of the work to get 1 Assist) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 No offense but I think its funny how you say put point production pressure on him. I cant see how that could happen. All Laps would have to do is touch the puck every once in a while and his wingers end up with it and score = +1 Assist to Laps. I dont think Laps would have to drastically change anything to put up higher point totals if he plays with 2 wingers who are high G producers. Hypothetically speaking wouldnt it be less pressure for Laps to produce offensively if he had Mario Lemieux on his wing? i.e. Laps would just have to be there to get an Assist and playing with Tom K would put more pressure on Laps to produce offensively? i.e. Laps would have to do the majority of the work to get 1 Assist) You're waaay oversimplifying this. It's as if the center didnt have to do anything and only the wingers had pressure to put up points. You're talking like the offensive production isnt a whole line thing, but just different players. That's not how it works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 You're waaay oversimplifying this. It's as if the centre didnt have to do anything and only the wingers had pressure to put up points. You're talking like the offensive production isnt a whole line thing, but just different players. That's not how it works. Hahaha, and I say you are way over complicating this. You make it sound like you need to have Gretzky between Mario and Fedorov for the centre to put up decent points, and all I'm saying is that is false. If a low point centre is playing between 2 high point wingers the Centers point total will go up. Lots of times certain players look great on a certain line but when the go to another team or different line they do nothing because its the other 2 linemates who are making that 1 player better. i.e. Blake's 1 40G season on Long Island, Samsonov, etc Laps could be like this if he's played on the 2nd line with way better wingers than he has ever had it will make Laps look a lot better. I agree that at this point Laps probably isnt a 60 point guy on his own accord, but when sandwiched by 2 60+ point guys than he could end up with close to that many points. If you play between 2 30 G scorers then its not really a huge stretch or massive pressure like you suggest for a player to have touched the puck around 40 times before your linemates shoot the puck in the net. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Lapierre hasn't even solidified his future as a third line centre yet. A short while ago, he didn't seem like he would ever make the NHL. I'd wait before giving him the second line centre job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Lapierre hasn't even solidified his future as a third line centre yet. A short while ago, he didn't seem like he would ever make the NHL. I'd wait before giving him the second line centre job. Indeed. Lapierre has approximately zero assists in his career so far - NOT what I want from a 2nd-line C. The whole notion is dubious. Pleks will just have to man up, and he's only 26, so there's a good chance he can recover from last season. Like it or not, despite Gainey's many moves, this team will still be dependent on unproven young players such as the Kostitsyns and Plekanec for the all-important secondary scoring. In a cap system, it pretty much has to be that way - you gotta have faith that the cheap youngsters can contribute substantially. (The only alternative would be something like re-signing Lang to a dirt-cheap deal, taking a flyer on a cheap high-risk veteran who might perchance be able to step in should a young guy falter. My guess is that Bob plans to do something like this if Pleks is still sucking ass after a couple of months). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Indeed. Lapierre has approximately zero assists in his career so far - NOT what I want from a 2nd-line C. Huh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Ya, I dont get it. IMO their low Assist argument is bunk. Laps just needs to be there, and win faceoffs and Assists will "magically appear". It literally can be that easy when you have 2 30 Goal guys on your wing. Am I the only who knows the following will routinely happen: Scenario 1: Laps wins faceoff, puck goes to Cammy, Cammy crosses over the blue line and passes to A Kosts who scores. +1 A to Laps Scenario 2: Laps wins faceoff in the Habs end, knocks the puck back to 1 of the Habs passing Dmen, quick breakaway pass to Cammy or A Kosts who scores. +1 A to Laps Scenario 3: Laps wins faceoff in the oppositions end, knocks the puck back to 1 of the Habs Dmen at the point, they shoot and they score. +1 A to Laps No clue why some are suggesting Laps cant get Assists on the 2nd line and would be under so much more increased pressure to produce offensively. Its absurd to suggest none of the above scenarios will ever happen. Laps could easily get way more 2nd Assists on the 2nd line that he could easily eclipse his career best by a large number and he would basically only be under pressure to win faceoffs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted July 21, 2009 Share Posted July 21, 2009 Hahaha, and I say you are way over complicating this. You make it sound like you need to have Gretzky between Mario and Fedorov for the centre to put up decent points, and all I'm saying is that is false. If a low point centre is playing between 2 high point wingers the Centers point total will go up. Lots of times certain players look great on a certain line but when the go to another team or different line they do nothing because its the other 2 linemates who are making that 1 player better. i.e. Blake's 1 40G season on Long Island, Samsonov, etc Laps could be like this if he's played on the 2nd line with way better wingers than he has ever had it will make Laps look a lot better. I agree that at this point Laps probably isnt a 60 point guy on his own accord, but when sandwiched by 2 60+ point guys than he could end up with close to that many points. If you play between 2 30 G scorers then its not really a huge stretch or massive pressure like you suggest for a player to have touched the puck around 40 times before your linemates shoot the puck in the net. Wingers depend as much on their center as center do on their wingers. Of course, playing with better wingers raises your point total. But we've strayed from the point. You're on a 2nd line, you have the responsibility to put up points regardless of wither your wingers are better or not. Saying that Lapierre can just be thrust into that role and given those responsibilities without any effect on his psyche because all he has to do it touch the puck now and then isnt serious nor realistic. Being on an offensive line with offensive responsibilities changes your entire game. You can just settle for dump the puck in the corners and be content with cycling and pinning the defense in their zone. You have to carry the puck way more, and carry it longer, and produce constant scoring chances. You think Laps can just leave the puck to his wingers and let them do the job? How fast do you think the opposition will see through that and just focus on neutralizing the wingers? That is what pressure to produce is about. Confidence in your offensive instincts and skills is critical. You put Laps in there and he's doing like Plex or Higgins and not scoring for 10 straight games and the pressure is on. He's going pointless for 10 games and it gets worse. Not saying he can't do it, not saying he couldnt be good at it. Just saying "not yet". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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