Trizzak Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Maybe even go after Marleau again, offer Hamrlik, Pleks, and a NCAA pick that still has 2 NCAA years left + 1 AHL year to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 So knowing he could have easily been awarded over $3 M in arbitration, you would have given him...what? Higgins got $2.25 M and he had an even lousier season than Plekanec did. Heck, there wasn't even the threat of arbitration in that instance. well I think that basically 10 guys got shown the door after last season and he get's a million dollar raise. Doesn't seem fair. Also because he could have gotten 3million in arbitration doesn't make it right. It is just the way of the NHL where no matter how bad you screw up you get a raise. Gosh I wish I could do that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 well I think that basically 10 guys got shown the door after last season and he get's a million dollar raise. Doesn't seem fair. Also because he could have gotten 3million in arbitration doesn't make it right. It is just the way of the NHL where no matter how bad you screw up you get a raise. Gosh I wish I could do that. I could live with that myself too. It may not be right, but it is the reality of the league. I noted Grabovski earlier in the thread and how both he and Plekanec will be making roughly the same $$$ next year. Personally, I'd prefer Plekanec of the 2. A quick calculation making the following assumptions - the average payroll spent will be $53 million (some will be more, others less) and an average of 22.5 players will be on the opening roster. 53 million X 30 teams = 1,590,000,000 22.5 players X 30 teams = 675 Divide the 2 to come up with an average salary of...$2,355,555.56. In other words, Plekanec will get just a few hundred thousand over the league average. Considering he's the only player on the team besides Gionta to score at least 20 three years in a row, it's closer to fair value that you think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Price is still a potential franchise player on all 30 teams. We better hope so or the 2nd line centre is irrelevant. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Pitts has two of the top dominant centers in the league. They have a couple top defense. They had a goalie who delivered the way people dream Price would deliver. Detroit is dripping with talent. There is no comparison. What Gainey is building (again) is solid but mediocre up and down the team. Unless you are lucky like the Wings, you need to get some absolute top of the league talent, then fill around them with cheap young guys. Who exactly on the habs is a franchise player on any other team (besides Markov)? It's not Plekanec's fault that we don't have Malkin as our #1. The Pittsburgh example shows that you don't need a team full of top players to win, you can do it with weaknesses. So yeah, I definitely think a team can win a Cup with Tomas Plekanec on their 2nd line (or even with Pierre Dagenais on their first line). well I think that basically 10 guys got shown the door after last season and he get's a million dollar raise. Doesn't seem fair. Also because he could have gotten 3million in arbitration doesn't make it right. It is just the way of the NHL where no matter how bad you screw up you get a raise. Gosh I wish I could do that. Gainey got rid of UFA! Plekanec is a RFA! How often does someone his age get a pay cut? Plekanec's agent would have been proven totally incompetent had he accepted Gainey's low-ball offer and went with a salary similar to the one he had last season. Had you expected Plekanec to sign for 2 million or less, you were only kidding yourself. At any rate, this is the rate a player like Plekanec goes for in the NHL, if not less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) For the record, when you over pay 20 guys by a quarter million a piece, you lose a $5 M player. In my view, Gainey is always over paying just a little bit, but it adds up in a hurry in a cap world. Pleks is not the worst example by any means, and I also understand why he over paid free agents, but at some point, Gainey needs to get some bargains in the mix. Edited July 22, 2009 by brobin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Lats, Moen, Laraque (when healthy), Gorges, Lapierre, Chipchura even Metropolit i would consider bargains for there price tag. I thought they got Mara really cheap as well for what he brings to the table. So some guys are overpaid, but that's what it takes when the taxes are the highest in the league. Players do look at that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
habs rule Posted July 22, 2009 Author Share Posted July 22, 2009 Divide the 2 to come up with an average salary of...$2,355,555.56. In other words, Plekanec will get just a few hundred thousand over the league average. Considering he's the only player on the team besides Gionta to score at least 20 three years in a row, it's closer to fair value that you think. I suppose when you consider he is or should be a better than average player it makes the case for paying him that amount of money. I guess we all thought the cap would keep salaries lower, we should have known that was not going to happen. Every GM in the league is trying to find away around the cap. They do a much better job of it than any player agent. :hlogo: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 I suppose when you consider he is or should be a better than average player it makes the case for paying him that amount of money. I guess we all thought the cap would keep salaries lower, we should have known that was not going to happen. Every GM in the league is trying to find away around the cap. They do a much better job of it than any player agent. :hlogo: Yeah, if there were no cap, I seriously think the Habs would now be looking at a $75m+ payroll. We'd be like the Rangers, Red Wings, Leafs and Flyers were. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nam Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 +1. I totally agree with that entire paragraph! I also think that 2.75 millioin is a reasonable amount for Plex. If he can score 25 goals and get 30 asists, he will be worth every cent. Once again I agree with you, however what's done is done. We will be stuck with the Gomez Contract for another 5 years. No other GM will be crazy enough to take this monstrous contract off of our hands! I think it would be wiser to wait and see what boht of these guys do this season. The Habs have gone through some MAJOR changes. If you replace Laraque and Hamrlik this year, htat will mean that over 50% of the team last year is no longer there. That might be a little too much change for one locker room! Not entirely true. If a team takes him in 2 years the hit is 5.8M, in 3 years 5M and for the last year of his contract 4.5M. Those numbers are all affordable for his contract (which is front loaded). The cap hit is the average of the contract from when the team takes him if I am not mistaken. So for the next five years is 8M, 8M, 7.5M, 5.5M and 4.5M. We eat two years of that and suddenly there is a guy with a decent contract who's production has been constant since the lockout. I checked and he has been in the top 29 centers for scoring and face-offs since the lockout and averaged 68 points a season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nam Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Now I know I will get roasted for this one, but for fun... If anyone is coming to Montreal I'm guessing Plekanec is going the other way and Hamrlik will be on the move in that deal or to someone else with little or no salary coming back. Dallas was reported to have been looking to move Richards who is a 7.8M hit the next two years, maybe Hamrlik and Plekanec would be the basis for a deal for Richards. They are looking to shed salary, but equal would have to go back the other way, but would be in multiple players instead of one. Last 2 Seasons: Plekanec: 161GP 108P +6 26 Years Old (1 Years Remaining On Contract) Richards: 130GP 110P -31 29 Years Old (2 Years Remaining On Contract) Hamrlik: 158GP 60P +11 35 Years Old (2 Years Remaining On Contract) Richards at this point would seem like a gamble as he has declined in his production the last few years. '05 82GP 91P 0 '06 82GP 70P -19 '07 74GP 62P -27 '08 56GP 48P -4 So over the last 4 seasons Plekanec is +20 and Richards is -50. Also looking at the Dallas roster, they have 3 forwards and 3 D-men signed past this year. 2 UFA goalies, 2 UFA D-men, 5 UFA Forwards, 2 RFA D-men, 3 RFA Forwards. Look like a team this past off-season? Would that fix the second line centre problem in Montreal? Maybe, but it would also create a defensive liability and losing a good PK guy that can score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) We'd be paying over 16 million dollars for our top two centers and people would still be saying that we lack a "true" #1. Edited July 23, 2009 by BTH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 People would complain if the centers were: Thornton Vincent L Madden Lapierre So some folks have there own ideas on what a team looks like. I am looking forward to the new look team. People can complain about Gomez all they want but numerous players including Cammallari said that move sealed the deal for signing with the habs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Not entirely true. If a team takes him in 2 years the hit is 5.8M, in 3 years 5M and for the last year of his contract 4.5M. Those numbers are all affordable for his contract (which is front loaded). The cap hit is the average of the contract from when the team takes him if I am not mistaken. So for the next five years is 8M, 8M, 7.5M, 5.5M and 4.5M. We eat two years of that and suddenly there is a guy with a decent contract who's production has been constant since the lockout. I checked and he has been in the top 29 centers for scoring and face-offs since the lockout and averaged 68 points a season. Sorry to say it, but you are mistaken. The cap hit is the average of the contract period, not when a team acquires him. Gomez's cap hit is the same for the next 5 years, no matter what (unless he was bought out). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Sorry to say it, but you are mistaken. The cap hit is the average of the contract period, not when a team acquires him. Gomez's cap hit is the same for the next 5 years, no matter what (unless he was bought out). His point on his salary declining is significant. A team like Nashville may not want to shell out $8m a season for Gomez, but the final 2 years at $5.5m and $4.5m he could be attractive to them again, despite his cap hit. He definitely becomes more marketable as an asset in 3 years time when his salary drops. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 His point on his salary declining is significant. A team like Nashville may not want to shell out $8m a season for Gomez, but the final 2 years at $5.5m and $4.5m he could be attractive to them again, despite his cap hit. He definitely becomes more marketable as an asset in 3 years time when his salary drops. That much I'd agree with - for the team who doesn't want to spend but has to hit the floor, a $5 M salary with a $7.5 M hit would be quite favourable - less out of their pockets to reach the cap floor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 People would complain if the centers were: Thornton Vincent L Madden Lapierre So some folks have there own ideas on what a team looks like. I am looking forward to the new look team. People can complain about Gomez all they want but numerous players including Cammallari said that move sealed the deal for signing with the habs. You're right. In Vancouver I have to listen to doofuses complaining night and day that the Sedin twins aren't 'front-line players.' Their PPG production is not enough. When people say this, what they really mean are 'superstars,' or 'franchise players.' It strikes me that the 1977 Habs lacked a 'real #1 C' (by these standards) as well. How did they do? So I'm with ya. We can't just give up on ALL our young players, any time they have a poor season. Gainey has assembled a highly talented core of small-but-deadly players and proven winners, supplemented by young guys who, a mere two years ago, looked like can't miss kids (the Kostitsyns, Price, Plekanec). My inclination is to want to watch this incredibly transformed team for a while rather that blow up the remaining hold-overs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) BTW, it should be noted that according to NHLNumbers, which has an average age feature, we project to have the 8th youngest roster in the NHL next year. Last year the Habs were the 12th oldest team, but we let everyone over 30 save Markov, Metropolit, BGL and Hamrlik go, and only brought in a couple of over 30 players in return. And that projected roster is for a 21 man roster, and doesn't include D'Agostini, Stewart, or Pacioretty. http://www.nhlnumbers.com/compare.php?seas...&order=DESC For reference sake, we were 21st in average age in 2007-08 when we finished with 104 points. Edited July 24, 2009 by saskhab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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