Remstar to bring back hockey in Québec City ?

[JoeLassister]

http://www.rds.ca/hockey/chroniques/279569.html

The Rémillard brothers would be down to bring back a hockey club in Québec and TQS would invest and present their games...

Rumors about Quebecor, rumors about Remstar, rumors about 2 other groups that want to stay anonymus..........

It is only rumors for now, but a shit load of rumors.

[JLP]

Rink of Dreams?

[KoZed]

Rink of Dreams?

Pretty much. The NHL wont award a franchise unless there's at least a new building up to NHL standards. The window of opportunity is now, because we're lucky enough to have a dynamic, industrious and visionary mayor in Regis Labeaume who would facilitate a lot the building of a new arena.

Problem is, if you built it, it's not guaranteed they'll come. Look at Winnipeg. They built the MTS Centre with the hopes that it could bring an NHL franchise back to the city. 5 years later, still nothing.

[JLP]

Look at Winnipeg. They built the MTS Centre with the hopes that it could bring an NHL franchise back to the city. 5 years later, still nothing.

Any Monster Truck shows?

Would it be accurate to say the new franchise likelihood list for Canadian cites would be 1) Hamilton, 2) Winnipeg, 3) Québec ?

[Habitforming]

Any Monster Truck shows?

Would it be accurate to say the new franchise likelihood list for Canadian cites would be 1) Hamilton, 2) Winnipeg, 3) Québec ?

I would think Hamilton would be last on the list of 3 but something like that yes.

[Sir_Boagalott]

Pretty much. The NHL wont award a franchise unless there's at least a new building up to NHL standards. The window of opportunity is now, because we're lucky enough to have a dynamic, industrious and visionary mayor in Regis Labeaume who would facilitate a lot the building of a new arena.

Problem is, if you built it, it's not guaranteed they'll come. Look at Winnipeg. They built the MTS Centre with the hopes that it could bring an NHL franchise back to the city. 5 years later, still nothing.

Winnipeg has the same problem Toronto has bringing in a NFL team. The newest arenas that were built werent built big enough. They were idiots when the built these new stadiums.

I've heard that the new arena in Winnipeg only holds 15-16K people which in NHL standards isnt big enough. Smaller markets like that should probably have larger stadiums 20k+ so when they make the playoffs they can reach max capacity by filling the upper most balcony level with an extra 1500-2000 people. I beleive the Flames do this to generate more income during the playoffs when the demand is at its highest, and the extra seats dont count on the arenas max capacity during the regular season.

If there are people who really want a NHL team in Quebec they should be smart and build at least a 20K person arena.

[KoZed]

Winnipeg has the same problem Toronto has bringing in a NFL team. The newest arenas that were built werent built big enough. They were idiots when the built these new stadiums.

I've heard that the new arena in Winnipeg only holds 15-16K people which in NHL standards isnt big enough. Smaller markets like that should probably have larger stadiums 20k+ so when they make the playoffs they can reach max capacity by filling the upper most balcony level with an extra 1500-2000 people. I beleive the Flames do this to generate more income during the playoffs when the demand is at its highest, and the extra seats dont count on the arenas max capacity during the regular season.

If there are people who really want a NHL team in Quebec they should be smart and build at least a 20K person arena.

You got that right. Which, in a way, is stupid when you consider that 15-16k would be sold out, and in the meantime you got team down south with 5k attendances.

I heard the comments from the Remillard Bros and they seem to have a lot of interest in replicating the Gillet Entertainment business model. Meaning that they'd need a building who can welcome big shows. Strictly tickets-wise, Quebec Citycan draw big acts without any problems, like Metallica two nights in a row; but there's no big modern building for entertainment which turns off many shows.

Meaning I'd see more than 15-16k. 20k might be a bit much. Montreal has 21,273, Chicago 20,500 and those are the biggest in the League. I'd expect something more along the lines of cities with similar population numbers (450,000/3M metro), like the new Consol Energy Center in Pittsburgh, which has 18,087 seats for hockey, or the XCel Energy Center in Minnesota with 18,064 seats.

The Colisée is 15k and was already too small in 95. It was also always sold out. I'm guessing 18k is reasonable, with all the corporate suites needed to make the thing profitable. There was already a project in place started by a group of promoters, their goal is to sell something like 1800 seats (ie. season tickets) to show the project is serious.

[Colin]

I think the actual number of seats is relatively low in the "need" equation. These days hockey teams build business models based on corporate boxes. Does Quebec have the capacity to fill a pile of those? If they build a new arena, I don't think there'd be a problem with 16K seats - as long as they had a whackload of boxes: filled!

And while someone mentioned Hamilton, Winnipeg, Quebec as Canadian destinations in that order, I'd say politics (read: Toronto and to a lesser extent Buffalo saying NO) will limit Hamilton's chances. While Winterpeg would seem to have the upper hand in some respects, I'd say Quebec should be the first to get a team. Brings back the biggest rivalry in all sport, puts a team where there are more dedicated fans (in 2000, or somewhere thereabouts, the mayor of Winterpeg actually stated that he believed his city to be an AHL city, and without the fan and corporate support necessary for long-term NHL stability), and more importantly for us REAL Habs fans, gets rid of the Nordique supporters who like Montreal just because they're in Quebec. Guys like Bergeron et al can go blow their bigoted spew for the Diques rather than force it down our throats.

[KoZed]

and more importantly for us REAL Habs fans, gets rid of the Nordique supporters who like Montreal just because they're in Quebec. Guys like Bergeron et al can go blow their bigoted spew for the Diques rather than force it down our throats.

Agreed. And we should also bring back the Maroons to get rid of the other bigots who like the Habs just because they're in Canada.

[Sir_Boagalott]

Well the Laffs ACC holds something like 18.5K which I think is way to small for that market.

Is there a cap on max capacity for a NHL arena?

I think any Canadian NHL teams arena should hold 20K. The arenas life span is so long that it will only be a matter of time before it is constantly filled and is over the max capacity. Plus like said about other uses like bands etc. There are a lot of music tours that dont make many Canadian stops and if there were more Canadian cities with slightly larger arenas more bands probably would make more stops. Most big bands probably shy away when they hear an arena holds 16K people and figure its not worth their time.

All Canadian arenas should be designed for multiple uses. These arenas cost so much money its stunning that they dont put more thought into it. :puke:

Why did they build a 16K capacity arena in Winnipeg? Is it even acoustically viable? probably not, so what the hell was it built for?

[KoZed]

Well the Laffs ACC holds something like 18.5K which I think is way to small for that market.

Is there a cap on max capacity for a NHL arena?

I think any Canadian NHL teams arena should hold 20K. The arenas life span is so long that it will only be a matter of time before it is constantly filled and is over the max capacity. Plus like said about other uses like bands etc. There are a lot of music tours that dont make many Canadian stops and if there were more Canadian cities with slightly larger arenas more bands probably would make more stops. Most big bands probably shy away when they hear an arena holds 16K people and figure its not worth their time.

All Canadian arenas should be designed for multiple uses. These arenas cost so much money its stunning that they dont put more thought into it. :puke:

Why did they build a 16K capacity arena in Winnipeg? Is it even acoustically viable? probably not, so what the hell was it built for?

That's a good question. I'm guessing it's all about the bottom line. Or maybe architecture. I know the Bell Centre is a praised for its architecture, because even with 21k seats the stands were done at the optimal angle so even the furthest seats were within X meters from the rink.

As for the multiple uses, I think they're trying the best they can. Without second and third pro sports team to be year-round tenants, it all relies on congresses, shows and expos. Big once-a-year events.

[Colin]

Reagarding the Leafs, why build it bigger? It's the boxes where they make the dough. An extra thousand or two and their paltry money is nothing compared to box revenues.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I think the actual number of seats is relatively low in the "need" equation. These days hockey teams build business models based on corporate boxes. Does Quebec have the capacity to fill a pile of those? If they build a new arena, I don't think there'd be a problem with 16K seats - as long as they had a whackload of boxes: filled!

And while someone mentioned Hamilton, Winnipeg, Quebec as Canadian destinations in that order, I'd say politics (read: Toronto and to a lesser extent Buffalo saying NO) will limit Hamilton's chances. While Winterpeg would seem to have the upper hand in some respects, I'd say Quebec should be the first to get a team. Brings back the biggest rivalry in all sport, puts a team where there are more dedicated fans (in 2000, or somewhere thereabouts, the mayor of Winterpeg actually stated that he believed his city to be an AHL city, and without the fan and corporate support necessary for long-term NHL stability), and more importantly for us REAL Habs fans, gets rid of the Nordique supporters who like Montreal just because they're in Quebec. Guys like Bergeron et al can go blow their bigoted spew for the Diques rather than force it down our throats.

I think your question about corporate boxes is the key. And given that Quebec is a (provincial) government town it has to be considered an open question whether it has the corporate capacity to fund an NHL team.

[Sir_Boagalott]

Only the Devils with their close proximity to Wall Street can get by solely on corporate box seats.

Sure corporate box seats are required for the majority of teams but so are regular fans. Teams need both, not 1 or the other.

More seats = more revenue. If these seats are corporate or regular it really doesnt matter, the revenue that is generated is what really matters.

When a team is doing shitty in the standings and not as many regular fans are coming out a team relies on season ticket holders and the corporate box seats to help keep the team afloat but they still need regular fans to make a profit.

[KoZed]

I think your question about corporate boxes is the key. And given that Quebec is a (provincial) government town it has to be considered an open question whether it has the corporate capacity to fund an NHL team.

Well Quebec Metro has 3+M people, and since it's at the crossroads of Saguenay, Beauce and Bas-St-Laurent, 3 significant regional markets. Telus has its Quebec headquarters in Rimouski and control most of the Eastern Quebec phone, mobile and internet market. I'm guessing one of the main reasons for Quebecor's involvement is to set a stronger foothold in that market.

As for the corporate boxes, I'm thinking the Tanguays will guarantee a couple. There's several companies in the Beauce market that could secure some more. Telus will probably try to land some. Then I'm thinking some Quebec Government might get a couple to enterain the suits who come to the city to deal with the various branches of the Gvt.

But Quebec is like the anti-Toronto. Not that much corporate power to justify building a ton of corporate boxes, but a huge rabid and loyal fan base who dont have anything else in the way of pro sports. The Nords were selling out even during their darkest miserable years (31 pts season) so it might be a better strategic move to build more individual seats at the expanse of corporate boxes.

[Habsy]

Metro Quebec has a population less than 800,000. The only way a team moves back, is if the salary cap drops by 50%. There's just not enough corporate money. It's a nice place to visit, but it can't support NHL hockey at todays prices. That's why they left in the first place. It's all about money.

[KoZed]

Metro Quebec has a population less than 800,000. The only way a team moves back, is if the salary cap drops by 50%. There's just not enough corporate money. It's a nice place to visit, but it can't support NHL hockey at todays prices. That's why they left in the first place. It's all about money.

You're talking about the immediate Quebec City area (Quebec, Levis, St-Augusting, Portneuf, etc). The conventional "Metro Quebec" that's used for all Quebec City events can go upwards to over 2M because everything East (Saguenay, Charlevoix, Cote-Nord, Bas-St-Laurent), South (Beauce and everything all the way to Sherbrooke) and West (all the way to Trois-Rivieres) can be counted on. Might seem stretched, but that's just the way it actually works. If there's buses of fans that can come from as far as Baie-Comeau or Rimouski (3+ hours away) and pack the Colisée up to 12k just for junior hockey games, you can be sure they'll come for NHL hockey.

Besides, the Nords didnt left because of money per se, they left because to keep competing in a cap-less era the old Colisée was obsolete and the municipal authorities (ie. ex-mayor Jean-Paul L'Alliée) were completely anti-sports and wouldnt lift a finger to get a new rink project move along and instead chose to put all their chips on a new convention center. The attendance or corporate backing was never an issue, the financing of a new building was.

Aubut asked for a deal to build a new building and L'Alliée just turned a deaf ear. Aubut and L'Alliée hated each other. L'Alliée was your typical bourgeois snob who snubbed everything remotely closed to sports. Aubut was used to get his way all the time but when he got stonewalled by the city, he took the easy money (something like 1250% profit) and sold the team while laying all the blame on L'Alliée.

In a cap era, where some teams down south can't get more than 6,000 attendances with no TV contract and little local support and mediatic exposure, you can bet your ass that a team in Quebec with guaranteed 16,000 attendances AND cable TV revenues AND wall-to-wall provincial media coverage thanks to Quebecor and the instant rivalry with Montreal would be viable franchise.

[RobRock]

Well the Laffs ACC holds something like 18.5K which I think is way to small for that market.

Is there a cap on max capacity for a NHL arena?

I think any Canadian NHL teams arena should hold 20K. The arenas life span is so long that it will only be a matter of time before it is constantly filled and is over the max capacity. Plus like said about other uses like bands etc. There are a lot of music tours that dont make many Canadian stops and if there were more Canadian cities with slightly larger arenas more bands probably would make more stops. Most big bands probably shy away when they hear an arena holds 16K people and figure its not worth their time.

All Canadian arenas should be designed for multiple uses. These arenas cost so much money its stunning that they dont put more thought into it. :puke:

Why did they build a 16K capacity arena in Winnipeg? Is it even acoustically viable? probably not, so what the hell was it built for?

ACC's "capacity" is 18,819 and they've averaged over 19,000 since the place opened. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the lowered their official "capacity" so it will look good on the year-end statements. Otherwise the fire marshall would be locking the doors pretty damn quick.

The reason why Winnipeg's 'NHL-sized" arena is so small is because the parcel of land they built it on was barely large enough to accommodate it. There's no room to expand, they can't go upwards and still sell the seats, and they couldn't get enough land at the beginning to get the layout that would accommodate a crowd of 18-19,000. It was either an error in judgement – that 15,500 was big enough to bring back an NHL franchise; an error in planning – not getting enough land to construct a facility that would seat 18,000+ for hockey; or an error in design – placing the arena in a location which limited or eliminated the possibilty for expansion.

[Jean]

I really want to see Québec get it's team back, but sadly I dont think it's gonna happen as long as Bettman is still in place. He's doing anything he can to prevent the 'yotes from moving to Hamilton and I dont see him doing any favours to Québec either. He's just too stubborn/proud to admit than his go south strategy has been a failure ; he'll do anything he can to prevent teams from moving. In the current economic context, I don't think we'll see an expansion either.

[Sir_Boagalott]

ACC's "capacity" is 18,819 and they've averaged over 19,000 since the place opened. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the lowered their official "capacity" so it will look good on the year-end statements. Otherwise the fire marshall would be locking the doors pretty damn quick.

The reason why Winnipeg's 'NHL-sized" arena is so small is because the parcel of land they built it on was barely large enough to accommodate it. There's no room to expand, they can't go upwards and still sell the seats, and they couldn't get enough land at the beginning to get the layout that would accommodate a crowd of 18-19,000. It was either an error in judgement – that 15,500 was big enough to bring back an NHL franchise; an error in planning – not getting enough land to construct a facility that would seat 18,000+ for hockey; or an error in design – placing the arena in a location which limited or eliminated the possibilty for expansion.

It doesnt really matter what the actual reason is because either way they dropped the ball, big time.

Its truly disgusting that when they spend 100's of millions in tax payers dollars to build something like this that they dont put more thought into it.