[Game Thread] Atlanta Thrashers @ MONTREAL CANADIENS

[Chris]

I know, it's so predictable, the habs lose Price sucks. Well i beleive they had like 24 turnovers or something, the D zone was a complete dissaster. The shot from the point i'm sure he wished he had back but not much you can do when 2 goals are 1 timers from 5 feet out and 2 off your own guys.

I still don't understand with all the defensive minded coaches they have had over the past 15 years why the defensive zone is so bad. I realize this years team is now missing 2 regulars but come on, this is the NHL, you should atleast know who to cover, where to move the puck, who covers the front of the net. Carle was invisible, he looked awful out there. I'll give him a few games before i decide on him. When will Hamrlik realize only bad things happen when you try to knock the puck out of the air?

The other bad news is this team has a knack for doing something well, getting a big goal, then within 2 minutes taking a penalty, a terrible turnover, leaving people wide open in front of there own net and losing all the momentum. Until that changes, not much else will .

The good news:

The top line continues to impress along with Pleks. If only he had a few NHL wingers to play with.

They continue to work hard for the most part and play until the end.

[bar]

Price made those goal saving saves IN THE FIRST period, to keep it 0-0. You compare his play to Pavelec, the type of shots, from the point, permiter shots. Our team makes goalies look a lot better than they are, shots right at goalies, how many cross crease passes for goals have the habs scored this season? I'd be surprised if it was more than 4.

Like I've said this game has nothing to do with goaltending, it's about a D corp that is missing 3 regulars and hasn't been able to replace them. Lets not let the forwards off the hook either, what was Moen doing on the cross crease pass, he could have easily tied up his player yet he tried to lazily stick check him. Why do we KEEP bagging on the goalies when it's the D corps which is letting us down game after game? Goalies, QBs, pitchers, such easy targets in sports, but they aren't always the problem.

[JCPetit]

Come on.. Price made a couple of nice saves, but look at the other end.. Pavelec made far more big saves, which was the difference. There were at least 5 chances by the habs that if they had gone in, would not have been Pavelec's fault either, but they didn't go in because he came up huge!

A starting goalie in this league has to do more then make most of the sure saves, he has to rob people on occassion, and of course, timing is everything. Price has a mid-eighty save percentage and while our defence sucks, you can say that about a lot of teams. Atlanta is just as bad, but they have won several games due to goaltending.

And for the record, while Halak has been better then Price, he is not playing like a number one guy either. At some point, one of these guys has to steal some games. They have to bail out our defence. It is no secret that our defense core is depleted. This team needs top line goaltending to make up for it, and so far, we are getting average goaltending.

Price was suppose to be our franchise guy. Our top player. The backbone of our team. He is no where close right now and that has nothing to do with Halak.

Pavelec was good, that's for sure. But Price had to deal with more close range shots. And rebounds too. No doubt that the team plays very bad defense before him. I was just saying that Price has been good enough to win, if the team played good defense. If he had been lucky, we would have won.

All in all, too many good shots on the goal. Pavelec had to deal with easier shots to handle; that's why, in the end, they won.

[JCPetit]

This game is ALL on the D, for all those that ragged on Gilly, he would have prevented likely 2 of those goals. We keep arguing about goaltending when it isn't the issue.

Price made 3 big saves at 0-0 to keep us in the game, yet we don't mention it. Same with Halak, he makes plenty of big saves, I think it's about time the D makes big plays, and when they don't get called out for it.

Send MAB down to the minors, bring up Belle, at least Belle added something with his mistakes, I fear everytime MAB touches the puck. Another thing why do our D HATE, and I mean HATE shooting the puck, they constantly give up a shot, looking for the perfect shot, get it on the net and let the forwards crash the net, we have forwards who will do that this year...grrr..so frustrating watching the D wait like 3 seconds and then finally shoot only to have the puck bounce off the other teams shins.

Gill would have helped, no doubt about it. Why do you think he had so much ice time, despite the fact that he had to play with a serious injury? The guy is certainly not spectacular, I would like him to play a tougher game, he looks slow, but he also does a lot of little things that smaller guys just can dream of doing. Obviously, the coaches like him, and that's because they see the whole thing better than the amateur.

[bar]

I have been happy with Gills performance this year, he's a stabilizing force on D with an active stick (teehee).

[brobin]

Sorry guys.. I watched Pavelec make huge, in close shots. I saw him come out and challenge players. I saw him anticipate the play on cross ice passes.

Neither Price nor Halak is a top goalie in this league. Our D is also brutal, there is no doubt.

So, we have average goaltending (at best), poor D (due to injuries) and 1.5 forward lines. I don't see a cup this year.

Frankly, I have said for years that we need to bring in a vet goalie to play with Price if we want Price to develop properly. I am still worried we have ruined the kid by pushing him too hard, too fast. He has zero confidence.

After a game like that, Patrick Roy would have ripped his team good.. He would have been P.Oed and let them know it. Price looked like he wanted to cry. He has a "woe is me" attitude. I would prefer he punch some more walls.

As I write this, I just watched Pavelec on the highlights of the night robbing us blind while his Defense watched...

Pavelec was good, that's for sure. But Price had to deal with more close range shots. And rebounds too. No doubt that the team plays very bad defense before him. I was just saying that Price has been good enough to win, if the team played good defense. If he had been lucky, we would have won.

All in all, too many good shots on the goal. Pavelec had to deal with easier shots to handle; that's why, in the end, they won.

Pavelec faced harder, point blank shots as well as a stunning cross crease pass. If not for him we would have been up 3 goals in the first. Atlanta's D was just as brutal as ours.

[saskhab]

Yeah, not much Price can do when Paul Mara abandons the front of the net and goes chasing after guys either at the point (goal #4) or in the corner (goal #5). Not much he can do when Bergeron is turned into a pylon by a teenager. Heck, even the knuckler was a screen shot (screened by his own guys) that he just didn't pick up. It's not like he whiffed with his glove on that one.... he didn't even see it until it was right there.

It was painful to watch. The Habs didn't give up a ton of shots, but they didn't need to. It's not like Price had a chance to make the first save on their chances.

I think the Habs need a full day long video session to break down their own zone coverage.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I am NOT "blaming" Price, nor am I one of these Price-bashers. Not at all. And certainly if Price were surrounded by a hermetic defence on the Jacques Lemaire model, he'd look loads better. However, the fact is that Price has delivered merely adequate goaltending - "average" is brobin's accurate word - ever since the Vancouver disaster. He makes *most* of the saves he should make and occasionally makes a great one. But he also lets in questionable goals at crucial moments of the game. He does *not* seem to give his own team confidence, nor does he intimidate the other team. In short, he is an eminently beatable goalie. The stats are eloquent on this. Halak's technique is not as good, but on all those intangibles he seems to be way ahead of Price (then again, he's not exactly Bill Durnan...but he's got those intangibles working, and Price doesn't).

None of this would be as big a deal if we had a team capable of giving Price a margin of error. But our team has one elite offensive player (Cammalleri), two near-elite players (Gomez and Plekanec) and one reliably dangerous but only moderately productive winger (Gionta). The rest are plumbers. Add to that the fact that most teams in today's NHL have goalies who are playing better than Price - even relative unknowns come in and play really well - and you have a recipe for a middling offensive team being outgoaltended regularly. And that, my friends, is bad news.

But what really worries me is that Price's confidence seems as shaky as his play. This is no longer the young man who entered the league as an Anakin-Skywalker "Chosen One" destined to Bring Balance to the Force, i.e., return the Cup to its rightful home. He seems decidedly battered by a disastrous 2008-09 and the pressure of playing what may be the hardest position in all of sport (Habs' G). Worse, he does not have a D-corps around him that could give him the safety net he needs in which to rebuild his game and his confidence. We have not been able to put him in a position to succeed. Instead we're asking him to be an elite player night after night and he's not up to the task. Is this a recipe for developing the Next Patrick Roy? I find that hard to believe.

Martin HAS to get the team back to that system whereby it gives up only 20 shots per night. Or else Carey needs some sort of miraculous recovery of form. Otherwise, there ARE legitimate grounds for worry that the Great Prospect is slowly being ruined before our eyes.

Edited November 4, 2009 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[bar]

This game was strange in the amount of breakdowns the Habs had, did you guys notice anything different the team was doing?

One plus that I've seen expressed so far, is that I never really feel like our team is out of it, even late, they compete every night.

[Chris]

Yes, recently i notices too much standing around in the nuetral zone, which allows the other team to gain the line with speed. Then they stand around and simply watch the puck in there own end. This allows wide open players going down the slot for one timers. The passing is terrible, the forwards are no where to be found defensively.

The other 2 big problems currently are dumb penalties rearing there ugly head. How many blind back hand passes do they make at both blue lines? Way too many, if your name isn't Gomez or Cammi, you have no business making blind passes at the blue lines.

Notice how easy it is for teams to break the zone on the habs (except the top line).

Where has ll the puck possesion gone we saw early in the year, short passes out of the zone.

[saskhab]

It's not so much standing around in the defensive zone, it's just following the puck. When it gets close to them, they sometimes leave a good positioning to chase after the guy with it, even when he's not in a dangerous spot. It's just simply not playing your position properly.

Hal Gill probably could've blocked a couple of those passes to the slot that resulted in goals.

It's scary to see guys ALREADY breaking down with all their added minutes. And we've still got nearly a whole month before either Gill or O'Byrne comes back, and 3 until Markov comes back.

[l<OV4L3V]

I don't think we can blame Carey for everything. No offense Kovalev I don't know if you got an axe to grind against Price but you seem to have thin patience with the guy.

He was rattled after goals and that's a mental aspect he needs to improve for sure. I just don't want to blame the guy entirely cause honestly where the hell was his defense tonight. It was quite sad to see.

He really didn't need defense last night....his GAA is terrible (37th/40 goalies currently to be exact), and last night's game was a little more justification that his confidence is non-existant.

What he needs to do is go back to the drawing board, and do the things that worked for him in the previous two seasons.

Popovic goal: must have

Skate deflection goal: a result of him cheating and not trusting the d-men to prevent the cross crease pass

Peverly goal: positioning was way off. Solution: should have pushed out to challenge, but instead was far too deep in his crease

I am not a Price hater whatsoever, nor am I a goalie expert. I'm pretty sure it's safe to say that it is not only my patience that is becoming short-lived for this season on Price, but also others who post on this board, and a growing percentage of Canadiens fans worldwide as well. What I am attempting to imply is a game like such should be two points, no matter which way you look at it. It also was a prime opportunity for Price to rebound against a team with a sidelined superstar. Those two points could potentially cost the Habs home ice advantage in the playoffs, and maybe even missing the playoffs entirely.

Bottomline: Letting in that many goals against the Thrashers without Kovalchuk is not acceptable, and expecting your team to put up 6, when you let in 5 (unless your the Washington Capitals), the chances of winning are close to nil

[Chris]

Pavlik still gave up 4 against a team with 1 line. He wasn't that much better.

[MK1]

Pavlik still gave up 4 against a team with 1 line. He wasn't that much better.

Pav made 50/51 saves the other day to beat Ottawa ... when was the last time ANY habs tender stole a game for their team like that?!?

Good teams (not including ATL in this btw) win the games they are supposed to and a bunch they probably shouldn't. This team has a hard enough time winning the games it should win, let alone stealing ones they shouldn't.

All I can say is thank Christ for OT/shootouts or this team would have 2 regulation wins a month+ into the season. THAT is what scares me.

Edited November 4, 2009 by MK1

[jrhabs]

OK just to sum it all up.

Our D is in big trouble and we need some serious help before x-mas , else we'll be out of the playoffs before we know it and regardless if Markov comes back.

Our first line is doing it's job, WANTED... second line scoring.

Goalies are in trouble because of extremely poor defense.

Holy crap , now I know why M-A Bergeron wasn't picked up by anyone, his D skills are horendous.

I'm out...

[saskhab]

Have some perspective people. He's 22 and has had a bad run for 4 months with glimpses of brilliance in between. He needs his confidence built up and it's really tough to do on a team plagued by as many injuries in front of him and with all the changes that have been made. And thanks to the NHL's wonky waiver rules for goalies, he lost his eligibility to be sent to the minors to work through these problems when he was still 21.

Anyways, unfortunately I don't see much hope in this season already here in November as a fan.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Well put, saskhab. Especially on Price. It's not that he can't do well, it's that he may not be in a position to succeed because this team doesn't seem capable of carrying him as he works his way back.

The defensive problems represent a setback relative to where the team was two weeks ago. Ironically, that should give us hope - it suggests that this group can play much better team defence. This may just be part of the learning process: they started 'getting' Martin's system, but have now slipped and probably need a practice or two to correct things. We might want to ease up on the despair just yet. But I'll admit, playing Spacek and Hamrlik 26 minutes a night is NOT a recipe for longer-term success. We'll be lucky if their bodies don't break down (God forbid) before Markov returns.

[bar]

Hmm..here's a thought, could we start dressing 7 D, and double shift gionta and gomez on the 4th line, so make it so our vets on D aren't getting overwhelmed on ice time?

[Athlétique.Canadien]

I am ultra low right now. I'm worried about Price and frustrated with him. Yes, the game was not his fault but between the boos (more deserved for the media for selecting Price and not Price himself) for the Molson cup and his almost defeatist body language, and his continuing shrugging at his D when he lets in a goal or gets beaten has me just stumped.

Can Carey regain his confidence? Yes. Can he learn to enjoy playing for the Habs? Yes. Can Gainey calm him and reinforce the kid to just give it time? Yes.

Is it possible that Gainey will rope him in and get him to calm and he'll still be a worry? Unfortunately for me - yes?

Gainey might summon all of his skills to curb the problems and in the long run it might not make a bit of difference. Even non-Habs fans around the office are noticing and very much questioning. Yikes, it's not that I don't support him and it's not as if I want to believe in him. It's moreso my fan-o-meter gas tank is running on empty.

Sincerly: Worried.

[KEEP26]

here my 2 cents...i believe for a goalie to be good or great he need to play...if your the number one guy you should play most of the games win or lose..i hate this you play one and then you play the next game bulls**t.....this gets in guys heads more then losing...the way it looks to me this year is we are going to win some and lose some no matter whos in net...so pick one guy and his the man...trade the other one and call it a season..

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I am ultra low right now. I'm worried about Price and frustrated with him. Yes, the game was not his fault but between the boos (more deserved for the media for selecting Price and not Price himself) for the Molson cup and his almost defeatist body language, and his continuing shrugging at his D when he lets in a goal or gets beaten has me just stumped.

Can Carey regain his confidence? Yes. Can he learn to enjoy playing for the Habs? Yes. Can Gainey calm him and reinforce the kid to just give it time? Yes.

Is it possible that Gainey will rope him in and get him to calm and he'll still be a worry? Unfortunately for me - yes?

Gainey might summon all of his skills to curb the problems and in the long run it might not make a bit of difference. Even non-Habs fans around the office are noticing and very much questioning. Yikes, it's not that I don't support him and it's not as if I want to believe in him. It's moreso my fan-o-meter gas tank is running on empty.

Sincerly: Worried.

I share your worries, AC, but Bob Gainey is not a babysitter. The job you describe belongs properly to Jacques Martin and the goaltending coach.

I am not interested in Price's "body language" - he has always been an oddball and hard to read - but I am interested in the way he seems shaky after giving up a goal, and the fact that he has a disastrous record this season in every respect. Worries are legitimate at this point.

[redondo]

Everything about Price points that he'll be alright in the long run. He has the physical pre-despositions, talent and so far this is still just a blip in what still looks like a good resume. But he IS NOT looking confident right now, last nite was not awful, but it wasn't great either.

You guys are right that this team cannot carry a goalie right now, but am I the only one feeling that the rest of the team still seems to play a little more confidently with Halak between the pipes right now? Not that he's been stellar either, but we seem to be in a lot of 1-goal games this year. The D was shaky even before Gill went down, and every bad goal hurts. It's looking like we will be scraping by any which way until Markov gets back, but I still think that with everyone healthy (or at least all major pieces) we can be dangerous in the playoffs. IF we get there.......big IF...

[redondo]

here my 2 cents...i believe for a goalie to be good or great he need to play...if your the number one guy you should play most of the games win or lose..i hate this you play one and then you play the next game bulls**t.....this gets in guys heads more then losing...the way it looks to me this year is we are going to win some and lose some no matter whos in net...so pick one guy and his the man...trade the other one and call it a season..

agree with everything except "trade the other one". i would keep both goalies.

[Colin]

Price's confidence is low, no doubt.

That said, Martin's post-game conference indicated that he had little problem with the way Carey played - made some great saves to keep them in it early. What Martin was more worried about was the attackers not hustling back to assist the defenders.

And that's straight from the coaches maw.

[KEEP26]

price looks pissed after every goal because i dont think he feels the time is good effort to win a game with out him being great everynight..so everytime they score on him he feels that he lose the game for the team...this team got to start scoring first and getting a lead so the goalies can have less pressure on them like every shot could cost the game...to asked your goalie to be great once in a while to win you a game is ok..but to asked the guy to be great every night good luck finding that goalie..it seems like every game is one goal games and that suck for the goalie...