Colin Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 50 shots against. Because: With the puck (in my opinion the largest problem) Other than Markov (who still isn't at 100% and it shows (mind you he's already better than everyone else)), we have little to no transition game. MAB is okay. Spacek is hit-and-miss. Hamr, when healthy, is reasonable. No speed through the neutral zone. See transition game. Wingers are static on their wings, and centre does one of two things, a slow crawl laterally across the neutral zone or checking back to the puck. The latter is fine, but then we need the defender not passing the puck to move into attack to generate speed and create confusion. Weak on the puck along the offensive walls in particular. Defensively at least we tie things up and while we only win about 40% of puck battles (my estimate) at least we have a chance to recoup and move the puck. Offensively we win about 25% of puck battles, if that, and we generate no discernable cycle. Metro, Moen and Patches all have the abilities to cycle, but they make poor decisions with the puck routinely. The Plex line doesn't cycle in the traditional sense, but at least when they get the puck, someone heads to the net - which is why they continue to have chances. Gomez can cycle, he continually gets in position but a) he loses the puck too much, either because he's weak on the puck, or more probably because he feels he has to do too much, and b) the rest of his line couldn't cycle to save their lives. Esentially, we get lots of shots against because we allow the opposition to have the puck far too much. For those that are older, they'll remember in particular Gainey, Carbo and Nilan cycling for - literally - a minute at a time. That's a minute when the opposition doesn't have the puck and therefore a minute when there were no shots against. If and when we get control of the puck in our own zone, we have to make that first good pass leading to a strong transition. Once we hit the opposition zone, we need to wear out the defenders with a good cycle, then head to the net and make something happen. Because we can't complete any of these areas with consistency, the opposition has the puck and we get too many shots. Defensively: We don't win enough board battles. We all know this. ( Other than Markov who, in my opinion, is one of the best one-on-one players in the game (see all my commentary on Markov dating back to his first years in HW articles)). His hand-eye is second-to-none and he doesn't usually need the big hit (but what a doozy last night!) to remove puck from player because he angles his man out extremely efficiently. No other player on the Canadiens is even close. Some have the potential, but they don't put in enough work. Patches, in my mind, is the closest right now, but he tends to get erratic in his board work, and by erratic I mean he looks like he's doing way too much - often with arms and legs akimbo. While we collapse well as a team, there are a few players who are not adept at taking out shooting lanes. (You can also read that as players who aren't willing to pay the price to get into said lanes and block shots.) I think this stems from a lack of puck control, quite honestly. Most players would get in the way a lot more if they felt they didn't have to block 10 shots a night rather than two. We're hit and miss clearning the front of the net. This has improved in recent weeks over the start of the season, but again is still a problem area. Opposition teams shoot more feeling Price and Halak have weaknesses. This is an interesting point which, I'm sure, will create a lot of controversy. I think teams shoot more against the Habs. I believe there's a perception around the league that Montreal's goalies are prone to error (perhaps rebound control being one of those issues). This may very well be true. Unfortunately for the Habs, they haven't realized themselves that every goalie in hockey is prone to the same errors. There are a lot of outside shots against the Canadiens, and I mean a lot. We don't take those shots against the opposition - they take every opportunity to shoot. I believe if you watch a team play against Montreal then against another team, you'll see a difference in the amount of shots they take. Look at how many shots we're getting - yes some are really quality shots. But there's a bucketload of point shots and perimeter shots as well. I honestly believe (scary point) our save % has been inflated in recent weeks because the opposition shoots from anywhere. Again, that's a controvercial point and I have no empirical data to back it up. Make of it what you will. We lose coverage too much. Easily said. We have, for whatever reason, more PP's against us. That necessarily leads to more shots. Remove at least 10 shots a game with 4 or 5 PP opportunities difference between teams in a lot of cases. I think this point is overlooked significantly. I think a lot of what I'm mentioned here goes along with most of what people have been saying. But there are a couple of points which I believe are too easily glossed over and ignored as symptomatic of opposing shot counts. In particular, the number of times short-handed can make a huge difference. ~~ As an aside, I think I counted at least three more times where D'Ago should have been penalized for blatant hooking/holding-type calls. Heer's a prime example of a player who isn't taking the extra step necessary. I believe there's far more chance of him being benched rather than moving another player, for instance demoting Patches, when Pouliot takes a spot in the lineup. Sorry Brian, not up for making it an article. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rafikz Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Pleks is making a believer out of me, at least when there is talent around him and another centre to divide the defensive pressure. My only nagging fear is that this is a contract year and Gainey will pay him a fortune, only to see Gomez 2.0 next year. I don't think he would be a Gomez 2.0 Gomez's best years are behind him, and he already won Stanley cups; his only motivation seems to be a comfy retirement Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) the ? is why is plek playing so well this year...you got to look at what as change...i think it as more to do with the coaching and more to do with who he is playing with...most people had plek wrote of at the begining of the year and now there on the bang wagon..i think plek only plays as hard as the guys he play with and is not a game changer him self...last year he played with kovalev,the most over rated player i every saw in the :hlogo: , he played when he feel like it, wasnt a leader and quit on the team when he didnt feel like he was getting the passes he like and ect.....but this year he is playing cammalleri and to me this guy is what the habs as been wait for along time, a guy that love to play hockey and be the best he can be all around, on the ice and off( a really leader) and i think this as rub off on plek and made him step up.. Edited December 22, 2009 by KEEP26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 .last year he played with kovalev,the most over rated player i every saw in the :hlogo: , he played when he feel like it, wasnt a leader and quit on the team when he didnt feel like he was getting the passes he like and ect. Quibbling, but I don't think he's overrated so much as just a lazy bum. *When he plays*... he's one of the top talents to have every played the game, of that I've little doubt. Problem is (and I live in Ottawa, so I hear it here now too), he only *chooses* to play a few games a year. The rest of the time he coasts on his reputation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KEEP26 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) Quibbling, but I don't think he's overrated so much as just a lazy bum. *When he plays*... he's one of the top talents to have every played the game, of that I've little doubt. Problem is (and I live in Ottawa, so I hear it here now too), he only *chooses* to play a few games a year. The rest of the time he coasts on his reputation. [/quote lazy bum i can live with that Edited December 22, 2009 by KEEP26 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I'm puzzled by the team's game of late. How can a Jacques-Martin-coached team play like this? Say what you like, but this guy had the Senators playing a rigorous, disciplined and effective defensive system, and he turned the Florida Panthers into one of those low-talent teams that you hate playing against because they made you work your butt off for every opportunity. But he comes here, and the team looks eerily like it did under Carbo (except in 08): weak on the transition, confused in its own end, surrendering masses of shots every night, generally soft, etc.. Not only that, but the team looks eerily similar despite having been thoroughly gutted by the GM. It's not even the same team!! What is it?? Something in the Montreal water?? Some toxic property adhering in the CH version of those new Nike sweaters??? It's just baffling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I'm puzzled by the team's game of late. How can a Jacques-Martin-coached team play like this? Say what you like, but this guy had the Senators playing a rigorous, disciplined and effective defensive system, and he turned the Florida Panthers into one of those low-talent teams that you hate playing against because they made you work your butt off for every opportunity. But he comes here, and the team looks eerily like it did under Carbo (except in 08): weak on the transition, confused in its own end, surrendering masses of shots every night, generally soft, etc.. Not only that, but the team looks eerily similar despite having been thoroughly gutted by the GM. It's not even the same team!! What is it?? Something in the Montreal water?? Some toxic property adhering in the CH version of those new Nike sweaters??? It's just baffling. I am puzzled too. When you look at the defensemen one by one, they should do better than that. I mean Markov, Hamrlik, Gorges and O'Byrne are good skaters, Spacek is not bad either. Mara and Gill are not as good, but they have their utility (size) and a lot of experience. Puzzling, really. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I'm puzzled by the team's game of late. How can a Jacques-Martin-coached team play like this? Say what you like, but this guy had the Senators playing a rigorous, disciplined and effective defensive system, and he turned the Florida Panthers into one of those low-talent teams that you hate playing against because they made you work your butt off for every opportunity. But he comes here, and the team looks eerily like it did under Carbo (except in 08): weak on the transition, confused in its own end, surrendering masses of shots every night, generally soft, etc.. Not only that, but the team looks eerily similar despite having been thoroughly gutted by the GM. It's not even the same team!! What is it?? Something in the Montreal water?? Some toxic property adhering in the CH version of those new Nike sweaters??? It's just baffling. Personally, I think our defense (as injury riddled as it is) is worse than it has been even during the dark Houle years. Markov is great. Played three games. Hamr has been awesome. Only guy around all year, at least until recently. The rest? Hit and miss - mostly the latter. Plus, other than one guy - Markov - we don't have someone who consistently brings the puck under control, DOESN'T PANIC, and passes it out. All the rest do, Hamr included. MAB is great on the PK, but his first pass is not the best from his end. And he's the next best on the team. He should be a winger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I really like MAB on the wing, keep him there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Actually he is 9th in points Hey by the way guys, our PP is 3rd and PK 7th 6th ex aequo with 40 pts. It's just that they rank them on goals score, so Parise, Backstrom and Richards come before. 40 pts, that's 3 less than Crosby and 1 less than Ovechkin! Anyway you look at it, smells like All-Star Game for Plex. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lazy26 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 6th ex aequo with 40 pts. It's just that they rank them on goals score, so Parise, Backstrom and Richards come before. 40 pts, that's 3 less than Crosby and 1 less than Ovechkin! Anyway you look at it, smells like All-Star Game for Plex. No All-Star Game with the Olympics going on, right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Man...I know the money might not work, the gamble might be too much...but the fact Plek has played through the negitivities this year and come out stronger, I want him around. I know it could be the blake effect. He does so much that doesn't show up on the scoresheet...his PK alone. Any chance we can get Gomez to kick in a couple mil to the save Plek fund? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 No All-Star Game with the Olympics going on, right? right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sir_Boagalott Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I was unable to watch the game, I was actually at the ACC watching the Laffs loose. Yeah Bergeron!! MAB sure is a Lucky Charm. afaik so far the Habs have only failed to get 2 points once in a game MAB scored in, and in that game they at least got 1 pt. I know MAB's had several multi point games so he only has 4 GWG's (not to shabby for $750K) but the most important thing is that the Habs have got points in every single game MAB scores. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackp Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 (I'm back!!! - Is that a universal groan I hear?) Took 3 days to get down here - had to run into that huge storm of course. There was snow almost all the way down to Charlotte, NC - very unusual for this area. Anyway, unable to watch the last 2 games - heard that Halak played great. *Lots* of unhappiness on this board on how the Habs have been playing. (I only saw the highlights on TSN - might have been able to see the Saturday game as CBC was streaming it BUT I got the "Cannot stream to USA" msg.) Trading Halak would be a big mistake. Potentially like the one (Chicago?) made in trading Hasek. Keep both I say and see how it eventually pans out. Sir B. you were basically correct on most of your analysis of last year. Short memory on this board. Halak played awesomely while Price was hurt near the end. Kept winning games where we were being outshot badly. Put us back into the playoff picture. Price came back from injury - Halak was put on bench, and we barely won another game that year (squeaked into playoffs and were consequently demolished). All I'm asking boys and girls, and all I have ever asked, is that goalies play based on *performance,* not on expectation. Use Toe Blake's old formula: you play until you lose. Price supporters have said that Halak/Price has been even. But Price has cost us *a few* games with bad goals at critical times. Halak has perhaps cost us *1* game this year. That is the difference and a big difference it is. (I don't think we have *ever* lost a game with Halak when we had a mere 22 shots against.) All the other problems Colin and others have identified seem to be true. They *do* look like last year's team (maybe even worse). One of the worst things I've noticed is that other teams seem to be much more organized exiting their zone. They do not depend on a great rushing defenceman. They just seem to pass the puck where we're not, and exit that way. We, OTH, just try to dump it out along the boards where it's often intercepted by their D. We look panicked; the opposition doesn't. As to those who have said in another thread that they want to "throw me in" on a trade to get rid of the "Trade Price" thread... Are you aware that I have a "no-trade" clause? And even if I'm traded, I have to approve the new location... (Healy and I, pal, Healy and I.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsy Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Be careful jackp, I read somewhere that Florida had to add something like 35 people, just to process the demands for a license to carry a gun. For regular, everyday citizens. To CARRY a gun, as in whenever they want. We all want you back in one piece, with no holes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 All I'm asking boys and girls, and all I have ever asked, is that goalies play based on *performance,* not on expectation. Use Toe Blake's old formula: you play until you lose. Price supporters have said that Halak/Price has been even. But Price has cost us *a few* games with bad goals at critical times. Halak has perhaps cost us *1* game this year. That is the difference and a big difference it is. (I don't think we have *ever* lost a game with Halak when we had a mere 22 shots against.) I hate this idea...play until you win. Goalies can be terrible in a win and brilliant in a loss. Halak may have won the game last night, but his shakiness and rebound control issues crept back into his game....hopefully Price for the next game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackp Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I hate this idea...play until you win. Goalies can be terrible in a win and brilliant in a loss. Halak may have won the game last night, but his shakiness and rebound control issues crept back into his game....hopefully Price for the next game. Worked well for Blake - the best coach I've ever seen. And sure, someone occasionally rides the pine unjustly but that's happened this year anyway. Halak faced 50 shots and only allowed 3... and you want Price. Does anyone here see what I mean? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackp Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) Be careful jackp, I read somewhere that Florida had to add something like 35 people, just to process the demands for a license to carry a gun. For regular, everyday citizens. To CARRY a gun, as in whenever they want. We all want you back in one piece, with no holes. Thank god this board's not located in Florida, right? I might have to {ahem} REVISE some of my more inflammatory comments. ("Hey pal, I'd have you know, I LOVE the Florida Panthers/Tampa Bay Lightning! What are they? Oh, they're rugby teams straight from New Zealand.") On a different theme, this is the first time in years that the Habs are not playing Xmas games in Florida (snowbird attractor). I wonder why... Edited December 23, 2009 by jackp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sakiqc Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I was unable to watch the game, I was actually at the ACC watching the Laffs loose. Yeah Bergeron!! MAB sure is a Lucky Charm. afaik so far the Habs have only failed to get 2 points once in a game MAB scored in, and in that game they at least got 1 pt. I know MAB's had several multi point games so he only has 4 GWG's (not to shabby for $750K) but the most important thing is that the Habs have got points in every single game MAB scores. And Marc-André is now tied for the league lead in goals scored amongst defensemen. I'll let you find out who is the other dman with 9 goals. And Marc-André is now tied for the league lead in goals scored amongst defensemen. I'll let you find out who is the other dman with 9 goals. oops, I see it was already pointed out by Kozed. Robidas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KoZed Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 oops, I see it was already pointed out by Kozed. Robidas Yep. I always loved Robidas, since back when I saw him play with the Habs in pre-season eons ago. Came a long way now. 8/05/2005 Signed as an unrestrited free agent by the Dallas Stars. 11/17/2003 Dallas Stars traded Jon Klemm and a 4th round selection in 2004 to the Chicago Blackhawks for Stephane Robidas and a 2nd round selection in 2004. 10/04/2002 Claimed by the Atlanta Thrashers from the Montreal Canadiens in NHL Waiver Draft. Then, Atlanta Thrashers traded Stephane Robidas to the Dallas Stars for a 6th round selection in 2003. 7/08/1995 Drafted by the Montreal Canadiens in the 7th round (164th overall) in 1995. Lost on waivers, traded for a 6th, then for what amounted to a 4th, then re-signed as a UFA for 1.5. Now on pace for 20 goals and 50 pts. Think we could use him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I'm puzzled by the team's game of late. How can a Jacques-Martin-coached team play like this? Say what you like, but this guy had the Senators playing a rigorous, disciplined and effective defensive system, and he turned the Florida Panthers into one of those low-talent teams that you hate playing against because they made you work your butt off for every opportunity. But he comes here, and the team looks eerily like it did under Carbo (except in 08): weak on the transition, confused in its own end, surrendering masses of shots every night, generally soft, etc.. Not only that, but the team looks eerily similar despite having been thoroughly gutted by the GM. It's not even the same team!! What is it?? Something in the Montreal water?? Some toxic property adhering in the CH version of those new Nike sweaters??? It's just baffling. What was the biggest complaint we had about the Habs over the past couple of seasons?? Lack of SIZE down the middle! With all the changes Bob made, he did not correct that issue. Not only did he not correct iot, but we are smaller up front then we've ever been! Like it or not, size does help, especially in a long and grueling season! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 I hate this idea...play until you win. Goalies can be terrible in a win and brilliant in a loss. Halak may have won the game last night, but his shakiness and rebound control issues crept back into his game....hopefully Price for the next game. You've got to be kidding?? If it wasn't for Halak, that game would've have ended in teh first period. He kept them in the game, all by himself. How can you complain about a goalie who had a .940 save% and made 47 saves??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) I'm puzzled by the team's game of late. How can a Jacques-Martin-coached team play like this? Say what you like, but this guy had the Senators playing a rigorous, disciplined and effective defensive system, and he turned the Florida Panthers into one of those low-talent teams that you hate playing against because they made you work your butt off for every opportunity. But he comes here, and the team looks eerily like it did under Carbo (except in 08): weak on the transition, confused in its own end, surrendering masses of shots every night, generally soft, etc.. Not only that, but the team looks eerily similar despite having been thoroughly gutted by the GM. It's not even the same team!! What is it?? Something in the Montreal water?? Some toxic property adhering in the CH version of those new Nike sweaters??? It's just baffling. I don't get this mystique like nonsense about a Jacque Martin coached team!! What exactly has this guy ever accomplished?? He had a stacked team in Ottawa in every position with the exception of goal and couldn't beat much inferior make belief teams. He had solid two way players in Alfredsson, Hossa and Havlat, had an offensive star in Yashin that was turned into Spezza and Chara. Yet coudn't win in the playoffs. What exactly did he accomplish in Florida???? Bouwmeester was rumoured to not want to play for the guy. The team was worse with him then without him, so what excactly did people expect from Martin's great system - which I still am unsure exactly what it is????? He was hired only becuase he was the most experienced French speaking coach available and after gainey and his predecessors had put green French coaches into head coaching positions since Demers was fired, he needed someone with a longer resume. Edited December 23, 2009 by hab29RETIRED Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 (edited) Worked well for Blake - the best coach I've ever seen. And sure, someone occasionally rides the pine unjustly but that's happened this year anyway. Halak faced 50 shots and only allowed 3... and you want Price. Does anyone here see what I mean? You've got to be kidding?? If it wasn't for Halak, that game would've have ended in teh first period. He kept them in the game, all by himself. How can you complain about a goalie who had a .940 save% and made 47 saves??? As we've been discussing, a lot of those shots were caused by poor shots by the opponents. I hate the sv.% stat. It's a mirage. A goalie lets in 2 weak goals on 40 shots, a goalie lets in 2 goals, with no chance 3 on 0 on 1 7 shots. You'd see the first goalie with a better sv/ % and think wow..he's better than the second goalie. Halak makes great reactionary saves, he's very physically talented, but he gives up terrible rebounds. This is not an attack on him, this is an evaluation. I worry everytime the opponent shoots on Halak, not for the first shot but where the rebound will go. The great goalies will direct the rebound to the corner away from the front of the net, and I'm no goalie expert, but I think that has something to do with being in proper positioning to face the shooter. It seems like Halak is not in position a lot because he relies on his reflexes too much and thus causes the puck to flop all around the ice like a fish. I could be wrong, could be out of my mind, but thats what I see. We could discuss this til we're blue in the face, but one of us will be unhappy with the decision Edited December 23, 2009 by bar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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