Julien Brisebois

[Colin]

So, the question begs:

When does "capologist" Julien Brisebois get fired? It's obvious that Gainey has been labouring with bad advice from the cap-master. I suspect our resident capologist would be a massive upgrade on Brisebois, unless there's something he knows that dlbalr doesn't. I, for one, am disappointed with how the cap has been played with, and can't see how this guy has kept his job. Yes, the final decision rests on Gainey, and yes he's accountable, but if he's working with bad advice and isn't a numbers guy himself, then Julien has to leave.

[dlbalr]

So, the question begs:

When does "capologist" Julien Brisebois get fired? It's obvious that Gainey has been labouring with bad advice from the cap-master. I suspect our resident capologist would be a massive upgrade on Brisebois, unless there's something he knows that dlbalr doesn't. I, for one, am disappointed with how the cap has been played with, and can't see how this guy has kept his job. Yes, the final decision rests on Gainey, and yes he's accountable, but if he's working with bad advice and isn't a numbers guy himself, then Julien has to leave.

I'm guessing you're starting to see things my way when I said that Plekanec is as good as done as a Hab?

Before anyone disagrees with me or wonders why I seem so certain, consider the numbers (ah, yes, it's not often I post without a number or two nowadays...):

Total committed payroll for next year: $44,892,141

Players under contract: 13

Assuming the cap drops slightly (let's say to 55 mil), there's roughly 10 million in space for...8-10 players. Of those that have to be re-signed (besides Plekanec): Price, Halak, Pouliot, Lapierre, S. Kostitsyn, and D'Agostini (RFA) plus Bergeron, Mara and Metropolit (UFA). With that many guys to re-sign (or fill either via UFA or the AHL), can the team really afford another $4.5mil+ player? Not a chance. I found an old article last night where I said the Habs could spend up to $20 mil in UFA's this summer, provided there were several 1 year deals in there. Mara's the only 1-year deal and the Habs are going to feel the effect of that this summer unless they can find someone willing to eat a big ticket without sending a similar contract back.

Thanks for the support though, Colin.

[matsnaslundsuperfn]

What's wrong with our cap... Gainey has all the players he wants and can afford them to boot.

Moves can be made to sign players who they see being on the team... I don't think the cap situation is as black and white as we think.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Bob makes the decisions. Unless Brisebois has been negligent in keeping him apprised of essential cap information - e.g., if he failed to tell Bob that he's on the hook for Spacek's salary even if Spacek retires because he was signed after age 35 - then it would be brutally unfair to fire him. I don't think we should talk about people losing their livelihood unless we have tangible proof of their incompetence.

[Chris]

dlbalr, most of the players you listed are irrelevant to the team and can easily be replaced.

Sk and Pouliot arguably should be able to get a small raise.

D'Agi, Lapierre, Metro are pretty much worthless. Pyatt and White proved they can do the same job for less money.

Pleks ands Halak are gone. Mara as well.

So really resigning Price will be fine, MAB a 2 yr 2 mill contract id fine.

A rookie D makes the team as well.

The team is fine

[Quebecois]

Am I the only one who thinks the Cap is overrated? We kept hearing about how the Cap was going to go down by several million this season, back to the high 40s range, and look what has happened. It may even got up by a million or two! This is during a recession. Imagine how much it'll be going up in a couple years if the economy turns around.

There are just so many ways to get around this salary cap that I don't think it is worth panicking over. Sure it isn't like things used to be, and maybe in a previous time we would still have a guy like Mark Streit on the team, but it isn't a big of a factor as people make it out to be.

Sorry if this poops on all your hard work dlbalr, just my two cents

[kenadian]

Ask the Flames about the cap.......last year they played several games with a short bench due to injuries and (up against the cap) couldn't call anyone up..

Edited January 5, 2010 by kenadian

[BTH]

dlbalr, most of the players you listed are irrelevant to the team and can easily be replaced.

D'Agi, Lapierre, Metro are pretty much worthless. Pyatt and White proved they can do the same job for less money.

Pleks ands Halak are gone. Mara as well.

The team is fine

How is this team competitive without any of these players? Because of White, Pyatt and Stewart?

If we let Pleks walk, we're done until Gomez's contract expires. I think we'll be moving one of the big contracts (probably Hammer).

[dlbalr]

dlbalr, most of the players you listed are irrelevant to the team and can easily be replaced.

Sk and Pouliot arguably should be able to get a small raise.

D'Agi, Lapierre, Metro are pretty much worthless. Pyatt and White proved they can do the same job for less money.

Pleks ands Halak are gone. Mara as well.

So really resigning Price will be fine, MAB a 2 yr 2 mill contract id fine.

A rookie D makes the team as well.

The team is fine

Thing is, Pyatt and White make more than Lapierre/D'Agostini and only a bit less than Metropolit. So they'd actually cost more - this is the main reason why D'Ags is still on the Habs right now. But the team, barely clawing for a playoff spot now will be fine without its leading point getter next year? Let's use your numbers a bit:

Pouliot + S. Kostitsyn - small raises so combined let's say 2 mil (less than $200,000 raise per player).

Pyatt (RFA) + White + Lapierre (I'm putting him in as he'll be re-signed): Let's say $2.75 mil

Price: 3 mil, backup TBD: 750 k = 3.75 mil

MAB: $2 mil

Total spent: $10,500,000 on only 8 players - still 2 potential roster spots left and we're already over the hypothetical cap of 55.

I'm sorry, I can't see how the team would be fine in that regard - weaker goaltending and less scoring on a team that can't score as is.

Am I the only one who thinks the Cap is overrated? We kept hearing about how the Cap was going to go down by several million this season, back to the high 40s range, and look what has happened. It may even got up by a million or two! This is during a recession. Imagine how much it'll be going up in a couple years if the economy turns around.

There are just so many ways to get around this salary cap that I don't think it is worth panicking over. Sure it isn't like things used to be, and maybe in a previous time we would still have a guy like Mark Streit on the team, but it isn't a big of a factor as people make it out to be.

Sorry if this poops on all your hard work dlbalr, just my two cents

There's ways to get around the cap short term, but don't tell me that Philly'll be on easy street in 3 years when Pronger retires and he's counting against the cap at around 6 mil for 3 more years. Ditto Hossa in Chicago amongst others. Look at the calculations above, doesn't take long to spend 10 million without Plekanec. In Montreal's case, the only way to get back into decent shape is to buy out players, but the prime candidates are either always hurt and would be able to block a buyout (Laraque) or were over 35 when they signed so there's no potential savings (Spacek).

Oh, by the way, I've yet to even mention the overage cap hit that's coming for next year which looks like it'll be around $500,000 unless something changes. That's right, the Habs cannot afford the players they have now (that one's for matsnaslundsuperfan); if nothing changes on the roster before year's end, that'll be even less to spend next season.

Plain and simple, management shot themselves repeatedly in the foot this summer and whoever's running the team this offseason is going to suffer dearly.

[lazy26]

How is this team competitive without any of these players? Because of White, Pyatt and Stewart?

If we let Pleks walk, we're done until Gomez's contract expires. I think we'll be moving one of the big contracts (probably Hammer).

Absolutely. Bob is going to have to find a way to keep Pleks and a goalie. Everyone else is a lesser priority.

I think that either Hamrlik or Spacek will have to be moved.

[Colin]

How is this team competitive without any of these players? Because of White, Pyatt and Stewart?

If we let Pleks walk, we're done until Gomez's contract expires. I think we'll be moving one of the big contracts (probably Hammer).

Unless he thinks we're Cup-bound, or close to it, Bob can't let Plex walk for nothing. And if we think anyone out there will pay for Hamr this season when he still has another year left on that contract, we're probably dreaming. Aside from that, who replaces Hammer when he's gone? At least he's been solid this year; more than solid.

The quagmire in which we currently reside, cap-wise, will require either a feat of majestical proportions or one of those insane long-term, front-loaded contracts to Plex: 14 years averaging a cap hit of $3M, or something stupid like that. The question must be this: is this the real Plex, or is this the contract-season Plex?

Perhaps the best question is this: can Bob make a move in the coming days while Plex's value remains exorbitantly high. I suspect the little forward will start to tire soon (we saw very clear evidence of that last game) and I wonder if this is the beginning of the end for his stellar season. Not that he'll sink into mediocrity, mind you, just that his production will start to taper off to about .75 pts per game, or thereabouts.

Can we therefore reasonably expect Pouliot to step in as second/first line centre and fulfill his promise as a 4th OA pick thereby allowing us to forget Plex? Will Plex's return, if he's thus traded in this hypothetical, give us back a young star?

Finally, though his contract is small, can Halak (maybe packaged with Hamr - spur of the moment thought) pull in another young, puck-moving defender? These two moves would reasonably alter the cap situation in our favour, at least, presumably, until Spacek leaves and his albatross contract is gone (3 years).

I shudder to think of losing Plex for nothing at the end of the year. While I like the general direction of the team and am not against most of the acquisitions, I will definitely be disappointed if Bob actually thinks this team can win a Cup and so keeps Plex with this vain target in mind. Not that they absolutely can't, mind you - parity in the NHL being what it is...

[KEEP26]

i dont think mab well get 2 mil...s kostitsyn will be traded, same as his brother i would think...halak well be trade..

Thing is, Pyatt and White make more than Lapierre/D'Agostini and only a bit less than Metropolit. So they'd actually cost more - this is the main reason why D'Ags is still on the Habs right now. But the team, barely clawing for a playoff spot now will be fine without its leading point getter next year? Let's use your numbers a bit:

Pouliot + S. Kostitsyn - small raises so combined let's say 2 mil (less than $200,000 raise per player).

Pyatt (RFA) + White + Lapierre (I'm putting him in as he'll be re-signed): Let's say $2.75 mil

Price: 3 mil, backup TBD: 750 k = 3.75 mil

MAB: $2 mil

Total spent: $10,500,000 on only 8 players - still 2 potential roster spots left and we're already over the hypothetical cap of 55.

I'm sorry, I can't see how the team would be fine in that regard - weaker goaltending and less scoring on a team that can't score as is.

There's ways to get around the cap short term, but don't tell me that Philly'll be on easy street in 3 years when Pronger retires and he's counting against the cap at around 6 mil for 3 more years. Ditto Hossa in Chicago amongst others. Look at the calculations above, doesn't take long to spend 10 million without Plekanec. In Montreal's case, the only way to get back into decent shape is to buy out players, but the prime candidates are either always hurt and would be able to block a buyout (Laraque) or were over 35 when they signed so there's no potential savings (Spacek).

Oh, by the way, I've yet to even mention the overage cap hit that's coming for next year which looks like it'll be around $500,000 unless something changes. That's right, the Habs cannot afford the players they have now (that one's for matsnaslundsuperfan); if nothing changes on the roster before year's end, that'll be even less to spend next season.

Plain and simple, management shot themselves repeatedly in the foot this summer and whoever's running the team this offseason is going to suffer dearly.

[dlbalr]

i dont think mab well get 2 mil...s kostitsyn will be traded, same as his brother i would think...halak well be trade..

Nor do I (regarding Bergeron), just going with the hypothetical numbers supplied. My guess: Bergeron's a goner next year.

[Colin]

Nor do I (regarding Bergeron), just going with the hypothetical numbers supplied. My guess: Bergeron's a goner next year.

The only way he stays is as a 4th liner and PP shot specialist. He won't be a regular defender.

[Chris]

I still don't see the dire situation. BTH, they aren't very good with those guys. So i wouldn't really miss most of them.

Pleks can land you a first no problem. Pouliot is a natural centre and could take Pleks spot.

Hamrlik can be moved, there are playoff contenders who would love a guy like that even for a high 1 year cap hit. The habs could take smaller salary back. A big 2 way centre for the 3rd line. Spacek can move back to the left side.

I also think O'Byrne, Gorges or another Dman gets moved. Subban will make the club next year which also makes MAB less needed.

I am fine with a line up wihout those guys

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Having a trade asset like Plex allows us to dump some salary if need be (although our dumpable salary isn't big).

Either Gainey is short sighted as Wamsley has suggested or Bob has a master plan to smooth this all out.

This is from Spectre's and it better not be right!

LA PRESSE: Rejean Tremblay reported the Montreal Canadiens can now begin contract talks with pending UFA forward Tomas Plekanec but the club's lack of cap space for next season combined with what could be the centre's expensive salary demands - Tremblay suggests Plekanec could entertain offers up to $7 million per season this summer - could make re-signing him very difficult.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Having a trade asset like Plex allows us to dump some salary if need be (although our dumpable salary isn't big).

Either Gainey is short sighted as Wamsley has suggested or Bob has a master plan to smooth this all out.

This is from Spectre's and it better not be right!

LA PRESSE: Rejean Tremblay reported the Montreal Canadiens can now begin contract talks with pending UFA forward Tomas Plekanec but the club's lack of cap space for next season combined with what could be the centre's expensive salary demands - Tremblay suggests Plekanec could entertain offers up to $7 million per season this summer - could make re-signing him very difficult.

If Pleks is looking for $7 mi, then he's not interested in staying here. If that's the situation, you pull the trigger on a trade and move on with your life.

And don't kid yourself. There is no big Bob "master plan" - unless it was (as I believe) to sign some quality UFAs to tide us over until the next generation of young players was ready to take over, a process Bob perhaps anticipated taking 3-5 years. Bob didn't expect Pleks to have this kind of season any more than anyone else did. Now he is improvising. I don't see this as disastrous; it all depends on the return he gets for Pleks (perhaps packaged with Halak). I am not having a heart attack over losing Pleks, either, because I think there's maybe a 70% chance that Pleks plays out his career as a 60/70-point player: Gomez Redux. Anyway, this could all be hooey. We'll see.

Edited January 5, 2010 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[BTH]

I still don't see the dire situation. BTH, they aren't very good with those guys. So i wouldn't really miss most of them.

Exactly. They aren't very good with these guys. Imagine them now without Plekanec, their MVP of the season.

[Habitforming]

Exactly. They aren't very good with these guys. Imagine them now without Plekanec, their MVP of the season.

I think he was talking about losing those guys in order to resign Plex.

[dlbalr]

Hamrlik can be moved, there are playoff contenders who would love a guy like that even for a high 1 year cap hit. The habs could take smaller salary back. A big 2 way centre for the 3rd line. Spacek can move back to the left side.

I also think O'Byrne, Gorges or another Dman gets moved. Subban will make the club next year which also makes MAB less needed.

I am fine with a line up wihout those guys

I don't think Hamrlik has any sort of market whatsoever, I've even said in the past that his contract is probably the 2nd hardest to move on the team (though Spacek's giving him a run for his money). Why move a young asset for an old 2nd pairing d-man when you take that that money and make a run at Kaberle in the offseason? Granted, contending teams may find him as the missing piece, but it's far from a certainty. And if they're contenders, they're not moving a piece of their core (such as a big TW centre).

O'Byrne has a bit of a 'poison pill' in his contract that makes him tougher to move - his salary next year jumps to $1.4 million. This means his qualifying offer after that season is $1.4 million and the way he's played the last 2 years, he ain't worth that. Just makes moving him a bit tougher.

[hab29RETIRED]

Bob makes the decisions. Unless Brisebois has been negligent in keeping him apprised of essential cap information - e.g., if he failed to tell Bob that he's on the hook for Spacek's salary even if Spacek retires because he was signed after age 35 - then it would be brutally unfair to fire him. I don't think we should talk about people losing their livelihood unless we have tangible proof of their incompetence.

I'm sorry, but if Gainey didn't know something that most fans on a forum like this are aware of, he deserves to lose his job for gross negligence and incompetence.

[Habsy]

I'm sorry, but if Gainey didn't know something that most fans on a forum like this are aware of, he deserves to lose his job for gross negligence and incompetence.

Hab29, I like your style, but to even suggest that is completely ridiculous.

[saskhab]

The cap is supposed to go up by $1m or so next year, not down. That's what Bettman told the BOG's back in December. High Canadian dollar this year compared to last is what is keeping the cap in positive inflation.

[Colin]

The cap is supposed to go up by $1m or so next year, not down. That's what Bettman told the BOG's back in December. High Canadian dollar this year compared to last is what is keeping the cap in positive inflation.

The league should thank the Habs and Leafs who probably float half the Yank teams by themselves. And as a Habs fan I prefer to be thanked by increasing the Habs (and Leafs, I spose) individual cap level by another $10M.

[dlbalr]

The cap is supposed to go up by $1m or so next year, not down. That's what Bettman told the BOG's back in December. High Canadian dollar this year compared to last is what is keeping the cap in positive inflation.

Here's hoping it's true for the Habs' sake, but I'm not overly confident of that happening yet. The 'dog days of January' have hit, let's see how the southern cellar dwellers drag things down with their low attendance. I'd forgotten that report though, thanks for reminding me of that.