jackp Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 "It’s time for the Canadiens to recognize that Jaroslav Halak is the key to the team’s playoff hopes, just as he was last season." Pat Hickey, Montreal Gazette, Saturday January 23 Seeing all the debate about Halak this year, I thought some of you might be interested in reading this article in today's Gazette. (And please - *intelligent comments.* Don't go all ballistic. I know many of you *on this board* disagree. Give your reasons why (other than he's the goalie of the future). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Halak is the key to the Habs playoff success this season. If he stays, he should probably play more because he's been the more consistent guy. If he goes, his return should be enough to put us into the playoffs. I still believe that, long-term, Price will be the better goalie. He is two years younger and has a lot to learn. That said, it's a win-win for Montreal. I'm curious to see how things pan out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habitforming Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Why keep creating new threads for old fodder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 I think Halak is the goalie of right now (he can still be inconsistent as he is also young and learning), and Price is the goalie of the future. What I am not sure of is whether Price's future will be in Montreal. I am starting to hear analyst suggest that Price might need to get out of Montreal (ala Lats) to take his game to the next level. He is damage right now from being moved too fast and too hard into a role he simply was not ready for. He has been in recovery mode ever since that playoff disaster in his first year. I still think if we had kept Huet that year, we would have gone farther in the playoffs, and Price would be a better goalie right now. Same think with Lats... rushed, turned into a superstar, lost his focus, lost his confidence, stopped improving.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Before we anoint Halak the number 1, I would like to see him play more against the tougher opponents. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted January 23, 2010 Share Posted January 23, 2010 Price's last few starts were so-so. That should settle the argument in the immediate term. This team can't afford many more losses - we're now definitively in the do-or-die phase of the season. Because Price did not make a compelling case for himself, you go with Halak until he falters; and if Price replaces him with a middling performance, then you go back to Halak. In other words, I see Halak as the #1 guy for the immediate present. This is in no way an attack on Price. It's just a reading of where this team is and where its goalies are. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
han_dyl Posted January 24, 2010 Share Posted January 24, 2010 Listen, you're not going to find a bigger Price guy than me. But right now Halak is getting the W's, and looking pretty good in doing so. I still think Price is this teams goalie of the future but right now you gotta ride the hot hand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackp Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) And again, from today's (Monday) Gazette: "Time to give Halak the job he’s won" - Headline from front of sports page... More from the article: "“Without Halak’s big weekend, the Canadiens (would be) in 13th place.” Somewhere in the midst of Jaro Halak’s big weekend (two critical games against strong opposition, two wins, 64 shots, one goal) I recalled a curious fact mentioned by Alain Crête on RDS a few weeks back: Never in his NHL career (his Canadiens career, in other words) has Halak started a game after a loss. Never, in other words, does this young man take the ice without a mountain of pressure on his shoulders: lose, and he sits. Even a win doesn’t always guarantee him the start the next time out. But now, with this curious up-and-down season coming up on the Olympic break and then the short, furious scramble for playoff spots that is sure to follow, you have to wonder. Will the battling Slovak finally be given the job he has legitimately won a halfdozen times? Or will Jacques Martin and Bob Gainey go on with business as usual, giving Price the bulk of the work and trotting him out every time Halak has the misfortune to lose a game? To tell the truth, Price has been much better this season than I thought he would be. He’s been better – but he hasn’t been as good as Halak. No matter. Price still gets a free ride from the organization, the media and most fans. Every time the opposition scores a goal, the broadcast crew (it doesn’t seem to matter which crew it is, TSN, RDS or CBC) immediately declares that “you couldn’t blame Price for that one.” Maybe, maybe not. If Price is never to blame, why is his record so much worse than Halak’s? It seems that enough pucks are sneaking through to add up to this curious but dramatic discrepancy in the won-loss record: Halak is 14-8 (overtime record included) while Price is 11-20. (Price also has a 2.73 goalsagainst and a .913 save percentage compared with Halak’s 2.45 and .927, but I’ll leave it to more discerning observers to decide whether that constitutes a significant statistical difference.)" Read the complete article in today's Gazette... And there's a 2nd article on the same topic on page 2 of the sports section. (And, no, I do not work for the Gazette!) :-) Edited January 25, 2010 by jackp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I've finally figured the puzzle out. Jack, YOU'RE ALAN WALSH!!! And we thought our little HabsWorld site was so unknown. Halak's agent is even here! Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I'm not gonna go over this again, but the win/loss record doesn't tell the whole story. Neither does the stats, playing against bad teams can pad your stats. Playing the bulk of your games lately with a full staff of players help, getting more goal support helps your win/loss record. Last I saw Price avg. 1.5 goal support, Halak had something like 2.5 goal support. These stats are a red herring, but I'm happy with Halak getting some more starts, what ever it takes to win. Price is still the future, and he's still young. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Now they're making it out that Halak was the key in a 6-0 blowout? Really? I mean, good for him to get a shutout, but I don't think the Habs' big weekend was all on him at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JCPetit Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I'm not gonna go over this again, but the win/loss record doesn't tell the whole story. Neither does the stats, playing against bad teams can pad your stats. Playing the bulk of your games lately with a full staff of players help, getting more goal support helps your win/loss record. Last I saw Price avg. 1.5 goal support, Halak had something like 2.5 goal support. These stats are a red herring, but I'm happy with Halak getting some more starts, what ever it takes to win. Price is still the future, and he's still young. I agree with you. Price is the future. It's not that I don't like Halak though, but before the beginning of next year one of those two fine goalies will be gone. It just makes sense to have a preference to the youngest, more talented one. Too bad, because Halak is really good too. Not fun to make such a decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I think jackp is actually Jack Todd. And nobody is disputing that Halak has been playing well. But Todd loses credibility when he repeatedly uses the same stats without giving the context (like Wamsley did in his article - I wonder if I should email him telling him to read it?). Stubbs at least mentioned that Price has faced tougher opponents and received worse goal supports, Todd just celebrates after every good Halak performance and refrains from commenting on all the other games. By the way, did anyone notice this line from Stubbs's article: "Halak is a slice of white bread in this multigrain world, though one with a rye sense of humour." I wonder how many years Stubbs has been waiting to say that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I just can't see how people can't celebrate what Halak does WITHOUT knocking Price. Whenever Halak plays a good game, they take swipes at Price. This isn't like the leafs and habs, you can like both, you do not have to choose. The other day I was watching a game, I forget which, they were saying that goalies that make great spectactular saves are generally the goalies that are out of position, and the mundane everyday saves are the sign of a good goalie because they are in the right position. The reason I bring this up, is that Price hasn't many hightlight saves, because his positioning has been better. I worry a lot about Halaks positioning, and his rebound control still, he's gotten better, but you still see pucks sit in front of the net instead of being smothered. I like bother goalies, but each have stuff to work on, Halak supporters think he is perfect, and thats doing him a dis-service. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IN THE HEARTS OF MEN Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 i've been a member of this site for like 5 yrs and although i NEVER post i like to read the threads daily for a nice dose of habs related news & to see what most fans are thinking... this price/ halak bull has forced me out of my (media silence). everyone needs to chill..... if you watch the habs as i do every night u will clearly notice that halak is playing better in the net on most nights. price had a 7-10 game stretch were he played great but we were unable to win. then halak went on that 6 wins in 7 starts to pad his win total and is playing really good hockey these days. martin understands halak is seeing the game well & on most nights the game is still moving pretty quickly for price... halak is getting the bulk of the starts as well he should. he is the more developed goalie at this point i am not discounting price & his "potential" as only a fool would let a goalie go who has won & been an MVP at every level of hockey he's played in. his ability to reach 50 wins faster then the likes of greats like roy, brodeur, luongo & fleury are a testament to his potential and 1 of the major reasons he isnt going anywhere. i believe gainey has learned from dealing away huet to early and will keep halak until next years deadline. he will continue to play them both and have them push eachother for the benefit of the team as well as for their development (barring a RFA contract from another team or an over the top trade). either way the montreal candiens are blessed to have 2 talented goalies under 25. price being the younger prospect with a higher ceiling & halak being the older equally talented goalie who has clearly benefited from his time in the AHL & seems to be just that... 2yrs more developed!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jackp Posted January 25, 2010 Author Share Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) i've been a member of this site for like 5 yrs and although i NEVER post i like to read the threads daily for a nice dose of habs related news & to see what most fans are thinking... this price/ halak bull has forced me out of my (media silence). everyone needs to chill..... if you watch the habs as i do every night u will clearly notice that halak is playing better in the net on most nights. price had a 7-10 game stretch were he played great but we were unable to win. then halak went on that 6 wins in 7 starts to pad his win total and is playing really good hockey these days. martin understands halak is seeing the game well & on most nights the game is still moving pretty quickly for price... halak is getting the bulk of the starts as well he should. he is the more developed goalie at this point i am not discounting price & his "potential" as only a fool would let a goalie go who has won & been an MVP at every level of hockey he's played in. his ability to reach 50 wins faster then the likes of greats like roy, brodeur, luongo & fleury are a testament to his potential and 1 of the major reasons he isnt going anywhere. i believe gainey has learned from dealing away huet to early and will keep halak until next years deadline. he will continue to play them both and have them push eachother for the benefit of the team as well as for their development (barring a RFA contract from another team or an over the top trade). either way the montreal candiens are blessed to have 2 talented goalies under 25. price being the younger prospect with a higher ceiling & halak being the older equally talented goalie who has clearly benefited from his time in the AHL & seems to be just that... 2yrs more developed!!!! At last!!! A balanced post! (Even if I don't agree with the implication that in 2 years Price will be as good as Halak is now). At least now the Price supporters (not calling you that IN THE HEARTS OF MEN) are giving Halak a little bit of praise (grudgingly, I might add). Let's not forget that it wasn't too long ago that they wanted him traded away. (Some of them still do. I guess that would be one way of making sure Price is number one...) Edited January 25, 2010 by jackp Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
huzer Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 At least now the Price supporters (not calling you that IN THE HEARTS OF MEN) are giving Halak a little bit of praise (grudgingly, I might add). Let's not forget that it wasn't too long ago that they wanted him traded away. (Some of them still do. I guess that would be one way of making sure Price is number one...) I've never understood why fans of a team can't be supporters of both netminders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fanpuck33 Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 I've never understood why fans of a team can't be supporters of both netminders. Isn't it obvious? If you say anything the least bit critical or praiseworthy of either goalie, you're automatically a lover or a hater! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 At last!!! A balanced post! (Even if I don't agree with the implication that in 2 years Price will be as good as Halak is now). At least now the Price supporters (not calling you that IN THE HEARTS OF MEN) are giving Halak a little bit of praise (grudgingly, I might add). Let's not forget that it wasn't too long ago that they wanted him traded away. (Some of them still do. I guess that would be one way of making sure Price is number one...) Nobody wanted Halak traded away because he was bad. It's called dealing from a position of strength/selling high to support your teams weaknesses. But that's the problem with selling high: once your guy is playing well, you're always too attached to trade him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Nobody wanted Halak traded away because he was bad. It's called dealing from a position of strength/selling high to support your teams weaknesses. But that's the problem with selling high: once your guy is playing well, you're always too attached to trade him. Another reason to trade Halak, is his agent has made it pretty clear he doesn't want his client coming back to a team where he'll be a 1a/1b tandem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 The incredible thing to me is that Halak has never once gotten to play after a loss. How can some of you people sit in judgment (Price is more talented, Price has more upside) when Halak has never really been handed the reigns. We have never seen him be able to come back after a loss (his fault or not). We have never seen how he responds to carrying the load knowing his job is secure. For all we know he will falter if given the chance, but Price has faltered numerous times and keeps getting more chances. Halak can't even get the chance, which is key to a goalie's development. Do you really blame him for wanting to either be traded or be played? He needs to do it and we need to see it before we decide that Price is better. I think both these goalies need more seasoning before they are legitimate number one guys (I define that as showing more consistency, they can both pitch great games). I just want to see Halak get that seasoning as well before we make any decisions. I think Halak has earned the right to play this entire road trip, win or lose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 Halak is doing very well. I like him a lot. I am a Halak supporter. I would like to see him get a start after a win. Price is developing nicely. I am a Price supporter. It is too bad he was called up too early and Huet was let go too early. Wow, look at that. I like both goalies. Neato. I still think we should trade Halak for Ott straight up, and call up Dejardains. Unless BG can keep both next year. But I don't see that happening. The only issue is Ott is UFA at the end of the year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 (edited) The incredible thing to me is that Halak has never once gotten to play after a loss. How can some of you people sit in judgment (Price is more talented, Price has more upside) when Halak has never really been handed the reigns. We have never seen him be able to come back after a loss (his fault or not). We have never seen how he responds to carrying the load knowing his job is secure. What this tells me is the coaches know that goaltending isn't the issue with this team, it was the injuries, the influx of new players, and other circumstances. For all we know he will falter if given the chance, but Price has faltered numerous times and keeps getting more chances. Halak can't even get the chance, which is key to a goalie's development. Do you really blame him for wanting to either be traded or be played? He needs to do it and we need to see it before we decide that Price is better. I think both these goalies need more seasoning before they are legitimate number one guys (I define that as showing more consistency, they can both pitch great games). I just want to see Halak get that seasoning as well before we make any decisions. I think Halak has earned the right to play this entire road trip, win or lose. One thing that gets me, is now Halak gets a chance to play more and peeps are still complaining about his lack of a chance? He's getting his chance right now. Brobin you mention about how we can sit in judgement of Halak? We can because we are fans, but we as fans have very little say in the long run. It's up the coachs to determine when a goalie plays, do you think they would put a player in 'just to save their job'? Or maybe they see something we do not? We do not and will not ever know the full story what goes on in the dressing room. What happens between games regarding attitudes. My reasoning against Halak is my observations of his lack of rebound control, feel free to disagree with me on that. Last two games he has been better, so sure give him the road trip, but don't error too much in giving Halak a chance, if he's playing bad get him out, don't stubbornly play the 'it's Halak turn' card and make two wrongs. The way the goalies have been handled this season has been about perfect in my eyes, except for the strength of opponents each goalie has faced. Edited January 25, 2010 by bar Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brobin Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 The chance I am referring to is the chance to play after he loses. The chance to come out the next game and redeem himself. Price gets that treatment, Halak does not. I think that is a key to both judging and developing a true number one guy. I don't begrudge the opportunities Price had to carry the ball for a few games, win or lose, but Halak should get the same opportunity. For the matter, several times this season Halak has lost even though he played great, but he didn't get the next game. A week later, Price lost, but he got the next game. In other words, I suggest we play by the same rules between the goalies, not one set of rules for Halak and a different set for Price. It might make both of them better and will certainly help us down the road when we have to decide what they are worth As for trading Halak, unless the return is great, I wouldn't do it. We made the mistake once with Price (dumping Huet for a draft pick) and I don't want to see it done again, unless we are completely out of contention or the offer is too good to refuse. We can get a pick for him this summer to let him sign with another team if we want, he is restricted and I don't believe either of them are going to run to the KHL any time soon. What this tells me is the coaches know that goaltending isn't the issue with this team, it was the injuries, the influx of new players, and other circumstances. One thing that gets me, is now Halak gets a chance to play more and peeps are still complaining about his lack of a chance? He's getting his chance right now. Brobin you mention about how we can sit in judgement of Halak? We can because we are fans, but we as fans have very little say in the long run. It's up the coachs to determine when a goalie plays, do you think they would put a player in 'just to save their job'? Or maybe they see something we do not? We do not and will not ever know the full story what goes on in the dressing room. What happens between games regarding attitudes. My reasoning against Halak is my observations of his lack of rebound control, feel free to disagree with me on that. Last two games he has been better, so sure give him the road trip, but don't error too much in giving Halak a chance, if he's playing bad get him out, don't stubbornly play the 'it's Halak turn' card and make two wrongs. The way the goalies have been handled this season has been about perfect in my eyes, except for the strength of opponents each goalie has faced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueKross Posted January 25, 2010 Share Posted January 25, 2010 In other words, I suggest we play by the same rules between the goalies, not one set of rules for Halak and a different set for Price. It might make both of them better and will certainly help us down the road when we have to decide what they are worth What's wrong with You win your in You lose you snooze? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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