Jump to content

Permanent Rumour Thread


Fanpuck33

Recommended Posts

Well said. Along with the plus 7, a huge stabilizing force on the backend. Well see if he can keep it up for 4 years, but for now a solid addition and the Habs would be nowhere near where they are without his contribution.

I think the prices for a defenseman of his caliber will surely go up and so will the salary cap. Just like Gainey's signing of Markov was brilliant. It will seem cheap in two years aswell.

One huge factor that no-one is discussing, the fact that we have a lot of kids coming up to play defense. To have Komi, Markov and most importantly ThE HAMMER as teachers and mentors to our future blueline. That really is priceless. He will end his career in Montreal and give away all his secrets to the youth. I'm not stressed one bit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who has received more than they would have gotten elsewhere?

Koivu and Markov. People in other markets were probably scoffing at how much we paid for relatively low-key players. Kaberle gets 4.25 a season from Toronto, and he was coming off a career year. Chris Phillips gets 3.5 in Ottawa. I know that guys like Chara and Pronger make more than Markov, but frankly he wasn't in their category last offseason to any impartial observer anywhere in the league. Don't get me wrong, Markov is a great player, but we probably could have got him for around 4.5-5 mil a season tops.

Koivu should have been signed for 4 million a year at most. He got more than the Sedins, Cole and Staal did at the same point (before last season). Instead we gave him money that puts him closer to a guy like Oli Jokinen, who is a better player. I'm happy that Bob can keep our players, but he never can get a good deal for us (except of course the RFAs, which are a ridiculous steal, and makes me more worried when they become UFAs.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no way we could have signed Markov for 4.5 M! Scott Hannan signed a 4 years 4.5M contract with Colorado this summer as a UFA. Markov is definitely better than Hannan!

Timmonen got 6.33 and Rafalski 6... Not sure they are much superior to Markov...

I agree Koivu got a bit much with his 4.75...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

No Sakic recorded 36 goals and 64 passes for 100 points @ 37 yo... that is brutal !

and? The whole point was establishing players who were productive past 37? WTF does it matter if Sakic had better numbers?

You are going to criticize or mock the post because I did not list the top 4 players after the age of 37?

Nonsense

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well said. Along with the plus 7, a huge stabilizing force on the backend. Well see if he can keep it up for 4 years, but for now a solid addition and the Habs would be nowhere near where they are without his contribution.

It seems like we were going to end up with either Sourey or Hamrlik. All things being equal, I would take Hamrlik over Sourey any day. It's only partway through the season but unless something very dramatic takes place, Hamrlik is not going to finish anywear near -27 and has a shot at finishing on the plus side. Overall, it's Hamrlik, hands down. In addition, Sourey seems much more injury prone at this point in his career. And where we thought we'd be most affected, and likely tried to keep him mostly for this reason, we still have a #1 power play without him. I think if we had resigned Sourey we would have been saddled with a very definite "badly overpaid salary" burden to carry for years. Overall, we ended up with the better player.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Koivu should have been signed for 4 million a year at most. He got more than the Sedins, Cole and Staal did at the same point (before last season). Instead we gave him money that puts him closer to a guy like Oli Jokinen, who is a better player. I'm happy that Bob can keep our players, but he never can get a good deal for us (except of course the RFAs, which are a ridiculous steal, and makes me more worried when they become UFAs.

The reason he got more than the Sedins, Cole and Staal are because you don't want to lose a guy who is the heart and soul of your team for $750,000 a season? He got a 1.5M raise because he was approaching UFA status which is always going to garner more money. What is he worth? 4M? He was not going to accept a 600K raise in his UFA year. That is not realistic. He had the leverage and he used it.

The 4 players you listed lacked the same leverage and therfore did not get as much.

Cole signed a 4M/year extension as a 28 year old coming off a career best 59 point season (close to a PPG). He was not a UFA and the Canes paid him market value hoping that he became a bargain if he continued in his development.

The Sedins also signed extensions and were not approaching their UFA year and were coming off career seasons as well.

Stall, once again an RFA who the Canes gambled will be a bargain by the 3rd year of that extension.

Their is a huge difference between negotiating an RFA deal and a UFA deal.

Hindsight is 20/20. You have to judge the contract on the day it is handed out. You cannot judge them based on today and their production since, or today's standards because RFA's now have increased negotiating power with the Vanek, Penner offers. Teams are now afraid of having to match obscene raises.

But those deals are not subject to that because they were signed 1-2 years ago.

You do not let your captain who has bled Red/White/Blue, fought cancer and has been the face of the franchise for 10 years walk for $750,000 per.

And people think players don't want to sign here now as UFA's.

Edited by Wamsley01
Link to comment
Share on other sites

There is no way we could have signed Markov for 4.5 M! Scott Hannan signed a 4 years 4.5M contract with Colorado this summer as a UFA. Markov is definitely better than Hannan!

Timmonen got 6.33 and Rafalski 6... Not sure they are much superior to Markov...

I agree Koivu got a bit much with his 4.75...

Those are good points, Markov is better than those guys in my books. The difference was that those players were lured to new clubs by oversized contracts. I guess we did the same with Hamrlik, but he was much less heralded as a big name.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hindsight is 20/20. You have to judge the contract on the day it is handed out. You cannot judge them based on today and their production since, or today's standards because RFA's now have increased negotiating power with the Vanek, Penner offers. Teams are now afraid of having to match obscene raises.

I thought that when each of the players mentioned were signed that they were overpayed. Koivu at the time was not at the same level as other players at 5 million. I guess your point about him getting a sizable raise is valid, but that doesn't change the fact that he earns too much. It seems like Montreal always gives people the money on the higher end of the spectrum of what they could earn as opposed to getting a deal, and this doesn't bode well for when our current crop of RFAs become UFAs after next season. I'm hoping Bob can lock one or two of them up with reasonable contracts before then.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I thought that when each of the players mentioned were signed that they were overpayed. Koivu at the time was not at the same level as other players at 5 million. I guess your point about him getting a sizable raise is valid, but that doesn't change the fact that he earns too much. It seems like Montreal always gives people the money on the higher end of the spectrum of what they could earn as opposed to getting a deal, and this doesn't bode well for when our current crop of RFAs become UFAs after next season. I'm hoping Bob can lock one or two of them up with reasonable contracts before then.

Those guys were overpaid because the team is speculating on their improvement. If Staal has 3 consecutive 100 pt seasons he is a a steal at 5M a season. The Sedins are already outperforming their extensions.

When you wait for UFA years you will always overpay unless the player shits the bed like Ryder this season. Even so I bet Ryder can suck somebody into giving him a raise this summer.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree.

I love Recchi and the game he brings, and he is being used as a scapegoat for the Pens who still suck after sitting Recchi.

He (like Smoke) would be quite useful for one season, and lets face facts here, the is no market for goalies in the NHL right now, so it is really dry for goalies not in the NHL right now.

Having said that, there is no way we trade Halak to the pens for Recchi straight up. We would likely get a second rounder or we could throw in a boarder line player (Perezhogin anyone?) and maybe get a better prospect or pick with Recchi.

This could also be a set up trade that would allow Gainey to pull the trigger on a Ryder deal with Recchi being able to replace Ryder.

It could lead to alot of things.....IF it happens at all

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree.

I love Recchi and the game he brings, and he is being used as a scapegoat for the Pens who still suck after sitting Recchi.

He (like Smoke) would be quite useful for one season, and lets face facts here, the is no market for goalies in the NHL right now, so it is really dry for goalies not in the NHL right now.

Having said that, there is no way we trade Halak to the pens for Recchi straight up. We would likely get a second rounder or we could throw in a boarder line player (Perezhogin anyone?) and maybe get a better prospect or pick with Recchi.

This could also be a set up trade that would allow Gainey to pull the trigger on a Ryder deal with Recchi being able to replace Ryder.

It could lead to alot of things.....IF it happens at all

You do not make that trade

Best case scenario - Recchi recaptures his 38 year old form of 68 points, Halak is a career backup

Worst case scenario - Recchi is shot and Halak turns into a legit top 10 starter in the league.

Does the best case offset the worst case? Not even close. For one it is highly unlikely that Recchi produces at that level considering that last season he was flanking Crosby, not Koivu. I am not even going to speculate on a 2nd rounder because that player could turn into anything.

I love the Recching ball, but I would give up a 5th rounder at most.

Edited by Wamsley01
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I disagree.

I love Recchi and the game he brings, and he is being used as a scapegoat for the Pens who still suck after sitting Recchi.

He (like Smoke) would be quite useful for one season, and lets face facts here, the is no market for goalies in the NHL right now, so it is really dry for goalies not in the NHL right now.

Having said that, there is no way we trade Halak to the pens for Recchi straight up. We would likely get a second rounder or we could throw in a boarder line player (Perezhogin anyone?) and maybe get a better prospect or pick with Recchi.

This could also be a set up trade that would allow Gainey to pull the trigger on a Ryder deal with Recchi being able to replace Ryder.

It could lead to alot of things.....IF it happens at all

WHAT?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So Gainey went from asking for Colby Armstrong to Mark Recchi for Halak? YA right!! Eklund is fun to read but sometimes I think he's heavy into the Jack (Daniels).
Yeah. he gets on my nerves too. Many a time he will post, "rumors coming up in a few minutes"..... :zzz: ....FOUR HOURS LATER, it updates. Is this an attempt to have people hit his site over and over until an update appears? :angry:

By the way people, please don't shoot the messenger (me) just becasue Ek is a clown. I don't buy into him anymore or less than others but rumour is rumour so I posted it. :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

You do not make that trade

Best case scenario - Recchi recaptures his 38 year old form of 68 points, Halak is a career backup

Worst case scenario - Recchi is shot and Halak turns into a legit top 10 starter in the league.

Does the best case offset the worst case? Not even close. For one it is highly unlikely that Recchi produces at that level considering that last season he was flanking Crosby, not Koivu. I am not even going to speculate on a 2nd rounder because that player could turn into anything.

I love the Recching ball, but I would give up a 5th rounder at most.

If you think that Gainey is going to wait for a deal that borders on blockbuster, you will be deeply disappointed.

Besides, we have seen that patience before and that "Young talented goalie" is still with the Bulldogs and Theodore was the #1 of the future holding him at bay at the time.

There is no market for a tender...period. Why keep another unnecessary asset, when we already have Ryder, Perezhogin, Begin, Bouillion, and Dandy in that department. Recchi will likely hit waivers anyway and we could have him for nothing....but Halak is essentially nothing right now anyway.

I don't think this deal will happen for a second, but to listen to all you guys talk about a future hall of famer like he is 10 years past his retirement date is a but much.

He can't be worse then Ryder's numbers (with the same ice time)

Edited by Habitforming
Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you think that Gainey is going to wait for a deal that borders on blockbuster, you will be deeply disappointed.

Besides, we have seen that patience before and that "Young talented goalie" is still with the Bulldogs and Theodore was the #1 of the future holding him at bay at the time.

There is no market for a tender...period. Why keep another unnecessary asset, when we already have Ryder, Perezhogin, Begin, Bouillion, and Dandy in that department. Recchi will likely hit waivers anyway and we could have him for nothing....but Halak is essentially nothing right now anyway.

I don't think this deal will happen for a second, but to listen to all you guys talk about a future hall of famer like he is 10 years past his retirement date is a but much.

He can't be worse then Ryder's numbers (with the same ice time)

So what if he puts up Ryder numbers. Then you gave away Halak for nothing.

I don't know if Halak is going to be a starter. But Recchi offers nothing but limited upside. Why risk unlimited upside for limited upside?

If Gainey dealt Halak for a player like Armstrong at least there is s possibility of large upside and an argument can be made.

Recchi is having limited impact as a 39 year old on a team that is stacked with offensive creators. The odds of him recapturing his youth with a team that rarely scores 5 on 5 is very limited.

It is not a strong gamble. I am not waiting for a blockbuster. But that trade leaves you open to be burnt, Pittsburgh would essentially be losing nothing.

I believe in calculated risks. Those calculations do not add up for me.

Edited by Wamsley01
Link to comment
Share on other sites

So what if he puts up Ryder numbers. Then you gave away Halak for nothing.

I don't know if Halak is going to be a starter. But Recchi offers nothing but limited upside. Why risk unlimited upside for limited upside?

If Gainey dealt Halak for a player like Armstrong at least there is s possibility of large upside and an argument can be made.

Recchi is having limited impact as a 39 year old on a team that is stacked with offensive creators. The odds of him recapturing his youth with a team that rarely scores 5 on 5 is very limited.

It is not a strong gamble. I am not waiting for a blockbuster. But that trade leaves you open to be burnt, Pittsburgh would essentially be losing nothing.

I believe in calculated risks. Those calculations do not add up for me.

"Unlimited upside"???

Are you serious?

We are talking about Halak, (an NHL backup, boarderline starter at best) and Armstrong who has proven to be a third liner for every NHL season in his career (Not to mention he's a dirty player)

I'm Sorry....but "Unlimited upside" is a bit overblown

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If you think that Gainey is going to wait for a deal that borders on blockbuster, you will be deeply disappointed.

Besides, we have seen that patience before and that "Young talented goalie" is still with the Bulldogs and Theodore was the #1 of the future holding him at bay at the time.

There is no market for a tender...period. Why keep another unnecessary asset, when we already have Ryder, Perezhogin, Begin, Bouillion, and Dandy in that department. Recchi will likely hit waivers anyway and we could have him for nothing....but Halak is essentially nothing right now anyway.

I don't think this deal will happen for a second, but to listen to all you guys talk about a future hall of famer like he is 10 years past his retirement date is a but much.

He can't be worse then Ryder's numbers (with the same ice time)

The difference between the two is that it is very unlikely Recchi will ever again be able to score 30 goals, or even come close to what he was, that's why he's been healthy scratch so often lately. He'll be a hall of famer for the past, not for the present or future. However Ryder could easily catch fire and score 25 goals, maybe even 30 again, because he's yonger and still has the potential to duplicate what he's done the past two years. Big differene in potential between those two right now. And that's not a slam on Recchi, he was a great player who was respected, it's just like everyone else, he may be close to the end of his career. But I do agree with you, this deal will not happen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...