kenadian Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Shanny signs with the Devils for 800,000...........Good pickup at a better price. http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=263183&lid...os=topStory_nhl Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MAK Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Shanny signs with the Devils for 800,000...........Good pickup at a better price. http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=263183&lid...os=topStory_nhl woot woot woot!! I can take out my New jersey Shanahan sweater I had in grade 7 !!! not a bad signing but well see if he has the sundin effect or will it be positive this time !! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Puck Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 cap rule is "at any given time" you cannot exceed the cap... it's not the total spending by the end of the year. otherwise, a team could theorically load up with 500k players, then trade for 10 guys worth 10M and steal the CUP. ----------- that said, we'd have to free roughly 7.5M to make room for Vinny. the easy way out, aka EA's NHL, in your dreams deal. Plekanec + Higgins = 3.2M 5.3M left Dandy + Cube = 3.6M (we'd basically have to lose those guys for nothing.. and then call up a guy like Weber or O'Byrne 700k left (but add the O'burn salary) ... lots of tinkering.. totally impossible. the hard way out, aka reality would be something as follows: a big guy like Koivu or ... LANG (noooo!) is traded away to free cap room we get a good return. Vinny would fill the void. 3M worth of players is traded (dandy + higgins or something like that, players who have no impact on our performances right now). the balance is filled with our very best prospects. whoever they want, they have, i.e. be it Chipchura, McDonaugh, or what not... Maybe anyone but Max Pac. Vinny's big contract doesn't start until next year. His cap hit this year is $6,875,000 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Vinny's big contract doesn't start until next year. His cap hit this year is $6,875,000 That's true, but itr's still nearly impossible for the Canadiens to free up enough cap room unless we let go of one of one of Koivu, Kovalev, Lang, Markov, or Hamrlik... in addition to Plekanec and Higgins. As I mentioned before we would basically have to keep a 21-man roster in Montreal, and send Dandeneault and Laraque to the minors. Unfortunately even if a deal for Lecavalier becomes a possibility, Bob Gainey might have to pass on it because he overpaid several marginal players, in particular Dandeneault (1.7M), Brisebois (1.5M), and Laraque (1.5M). Not to mention Bouillon (1.875M), but at least he plays regularly. I especially don't understand why we used up almost every penny left on our cap room to give bonuses to Patrice Brisebois, especially since he had hardly any bargaining power; a simple 700K for the season would have been more than fair while at least giving us a little bit of extra cap room. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 If it's impossible to get Lecavalier and if Gainey is looking into this acquisition it clearly shows he is incompetant - right? Fire him I guess. Our resident self proclaimed capolgists and armchair GM's here have concluded it's impossible. Off with BOb's head! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 If it's impossible to get Lecavalier and if Gainey is looking into this acquisition it clearly shows he is incompetant - right? Fire him I guess. Our resident self proclaimed capolgists and armchair GM's here have concluded it's impossible. Off with BOb's head! Impossible? Hardly, although the deal as proposed would put the Habs over the cap. Doesn't mean a secondary move couldn't be worked out, don't misconstrue what I've been saying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 If it's impossible to get Lecavalier and if Gainey is looking into this acquisition it clearly shows he is incompetant - right? Fire him I guess. Our resident self proclaimed capolgists and armchair GM's here have concluded it's impossible. Off with BOb's head! First of all no one said Gainey was actually negociating with the Lightning. Last I heard from Montreal is that we're doing just fine, but we might look into acquiring a defenseman, while the Lightning have repeated that they are not shopping Lecavalier although in theory no one is untouchable (the rest is all rumors). Second if Gainey is looking into - which he should if there truly is a possibility - it doens't mean that it is feasible and/or desirable for the Canadiens (or the Lightning). Gainey can look for solutions all he wants, it doesn't mean that an acceptable deal (or deals) can be reached. The rumor as it is now is not feasible as it would put us well over the cap. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 (edited) Impossible? Hardly, although the deal as proposed would put the Habs over the cap. Doesn't mean a secondary move couldn't be worked out, don't misconstrue what I've been saying...It wasn't directed at anyone specific. I just get annoyed when people conclude that the ideas about this are erroneous based on math. It is true that the math is off but I'm sure that if we could acquire him then BOb would find a way. That's my beef. Why have a "Permanent Rumor Thread" and have open discussions if the proposed ideas or rumours are being floated? Someone says it's impossible because of A, B or C - does that equate to the idea being non-true? We could introduce a new "Permanent Rumor Thread" rule. If it's not workable under the cap - don't post/discuss the rumour. BTW: Loose rumour taken from another board: It's a poster "Heard on radio/TV" so it's not too trustworthy. Nevertheless, here goes: From The Score: Markov + Subban + draft pick for Lecavalier and Bob refused! If the Score is reporting a true rumour then it illustrates that there is activity going on. Edited January 15, 2009 by Athlétique.Canadien Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 From The Score: Markov + Subban + draft pick for Lecavalier and Bob refused! No way that Tampa Only asked for Markov and Subban with a 1st round pick. Impossible! the Score is full of horsesh.it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mont Royale Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 No way that Tampa Only asked for Markov and Subban with a 1st round pick. Impossible! the Score is full of horsesh.it! Not sure if it's true or not... but "only" Markov? He's one of the best defencemen in the league! And given Montreal's needs (which are defence more than offence), this trade wouldn't make sense for Montreal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 It wasn't directed at anyone specific. I just get annoyed when people conclude that the ideas about this are erroneous based on math. It is true that the math is off but I'm sure that if we could acquire him then BOb would find a way. That's my beef. Why have a "Permanent Rumor Thread" and have open discussions if the proposed ideas or rumours are being floated? Someone says it's impossible because of A, B or C - does that equate to the idea being non-true? We could introduce a new "Permanent Rumor Thread" rule. If it's not workable under the cap - don't post/discuss the rumour. BTW: Loose rumour taken from another board: It's a poster "Heard on radio/TV" so it's not too trustworthy. Nevertheless, here goes: If the Score is reporting a true rumour then it illustrates that there is activity going on. I agree that I find it frustrating when people say it won't work under the cap - half the time, they're wrong (and not just on this board either). Although it's understandable to a degree; how often at this point in the season do you see a deal that is a precursor to another deal to stay under the cap? I've heard that line many a time before, usually from Eklund. (Maybe that's why people are so quick to jump on rumours, after being let down so often in the past?) As for The Score, haven't heard it myself (not saying it didn't happen though), but their hockey department hasn't been too accurate on anything lately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Athlétique.Canadien Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 So, we now have: Chapter 1: "The Phantom Sundin" Chapter 2: "Attack of the Lecavalier's" What's next? Chapter 3: Revenge of the Marleau? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zowpeb Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 No way that Tampa Only asked for Markov and Subban with a 1st round pick. Impossible! the Score is full of horsesh.it! Why "only"? That's relatively fair...it doesn't fit the organizations needs but it's fair value IMO. Vinny is so overrated around here it's insane...not saying he's not very good but he's not even a top 5 C in the league...let alone a top 15 player. Markov, a 2nd round defensive prospect with rising value after the WJC's and a 1st round pick is a pretty fair request for Lecavalier. Most of the proposals I've seen on here are ridiculous...some of you may be overcompensating for the homerism in your veins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 (edited) Not sure if it's true or not... but "only" Markov? He's one of the best defencemen in the league! And given Montreal's needs (which are defence more than offence), this trade wouldn't make sense for Montreal. Al Strachan on the Score reported the "Markov, Subban and draft picks for Lecavalier"... First of all, it doesn't make sense for Tampa Bay to trade the face of the franchise - he is the only reason why there may be a future for the Lightning in Tampa. The only way they trade him is because of financial reasons and an incredible offer. Second, Strachan is delusional if he thinks that that's what the Habs offered - it would likely take Higgins/Plekanec, Markov/Komisarek, a prospect (Subban/Mcdounagh(sp?)) and draft picks. Third, I wouldn't include Komisarek or Markov in a trade for Lecalvier - how would we replace that on our D? If we want to win the cup this, with or without Vinny, we need a shutdown defence. Edited January 15, 2009 by Gman Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Al Strachan on the Score reported the "Markov, Subban and draft picks for Lecavalier"... Something tells me that my statement about how The Score's hockey department hasn't gotten much right lately is going to hold true. Montreal needs defenceman, so they'll offer their best one for a forward...yep, that's Al in a heartbeat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gman Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Why "only"? That's relatively fair...it doesn't fit the organizations needs but it's fair value IMO. Vinny is so overrated around here it's insane...not saying he's not very good but he's not even a top 5 C in the league...let alone a top 15 player. Markov, a 2nd round defensive prospect with rising value after the WJC's and a 1st round pick is a pretty fair request for Lecavalier. Most of the proposals I've seen on here are ridiculous...some of you may be overcompensating for the homerism in your veins. You have to consider more than his value on the ice - You have to take into account what it will take for Tampa to move him. They won't trade him for fair value; Tampa will only move him if they get an incredible offer. Add in the fact that Montreal plays in the East, the Habs play in Tampa twice a year and the that Montreal appears desperate to get him and it is a gaurantee that Montreal will be overpaying if they land him. That being said, we can afford to over pay because our depth is insane. As much as I love Plekanec and Higgins and want to see what Subban will do, we have players in the system that can replace their production, not to mention what Lecavalier will bring. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Something tells me that my statement about how The Score's hockey department hasn't gotten much right lately is going to hold true. Montreal needs defenceman, so they'll offer their best one for a forward...yep, that's Al in a heartbeat. The report did say that Montreal rejected the offer. That might be what Tampa wants, but not what Bob wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Why "only"? That's relatively fair...it doesn't fit the organizations needs but it's fair value IMO. Vinny is so overrated around here it's insane...not saying he's not very good but he's not even a top 5 C in the league...let alone a top 15 player. Markov, a 2nd round defensive prospect with rising value after the WJC's and a 1st round pick is a pretty fair request for Lecavalier. Most of the proposals I've seen on here are ridiculous...some of you may be overcompensating for the homerism in your veins. Sorry dude, but I,ll take Pierre McGuire's and Bob Mackenzie opinions before I'll take yours. And both of them said that any trade for Vinny would be a 4 component deal. Ie: an established young player, a d-man, an excellent young prospect and a 1st round pick! We aren't the ones who came up with the Higgins, Plex, Subban, Gorges and a 1st round pick rumour! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoRvInA Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 with the fact that higgins are komi are so close... I would have to go with this scenario as the upper most I would sacrifice to get vinnie Higgins-komi-pleks- (mind you most are to be UFA) so you would have to sign them to extensions or in lieu add prospects... Chips-D'agostini-O'brien or equivalent draft picks (number 1s 2s...) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CerebusClone Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 Why "only"? That's relatively fair...it doesn't fit the organizations needs but it's fair value IMO. Vinny is so overrated around here it's insane...not saying he's not very good but he's not even a top 5 C in the league...let alone a top 15 player. Markov, a 2nd round defensive prospect with rising value after the WJC's and a 1st round pick is a pretty fair request for Lecavalier. Most of the proposals I've seen on here are ridiculous...some of you may be overcompensating for the homerism in your veins. Just curious, who's a better and more dominant centre than Lecavalier besides Crosby, Thornton, and Malkin? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Habsfan Posted January 15, 2009 Share Posted January 15, 2009 (edited) with the fact that higgins are komi are so close... I would have to go with this scenario as the upper most I would sacrifice to get vinnie Higgins-komi-pleks- (mind you most are to be UFA) so you would have to sign them to extensions or in lieu add prospects... Chips-D'agostini-O'brien or equivalent draft picks (number 1s 2s...) If you trade Markov or Komi in a Vinny Lecavalier trade, you are taking a step backwards from the Stanley Cup. As I've said before, like any NHL GM's have said before, you build championship winning teams from the back out. Starting with a good goalie, and a solid corps of defensemen! If I were Bob, instead of wasting time with Tanpa, I'd make a serious effort to pick up Bouwmeester...Imagine having a top 4 defense with Markov-Komi and Bouwmeester with Hamrlik...NOW THAT would be a stanley Cup contender! Edited January 15, 2009 by Habsfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbhatt Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I think the importance of keeping Higgins around as it relates to re-signing Komisarek is being overstated by many on this board. I'm sure they realize that they aren't likely to play their entire NHL careers together, that they are not inseperable; it's not like they're Bert and Ernie, for God's sake! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johnnyhasbeen Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Just wondering here, Vinnie would be just over 3 mill hit this year, just under half a year. How much have we saved from Saku, BGL, Tang, Price, Komo........ We must be close to that in savings. I think we needn't shed much salary, thanks to injury. Am I close to right? If Pleks and Higgins go, it would be about 1 mill saved, plus injury savings. ....Are we close? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 I think the importance of keeping Higgins around as it relates to re-signing Komisarek is being overstated by many on this board. I'm sure they realize that they aren't likely to play their entire NHL careers together, that they are not inseperable; it's not like they're Bert and Ernie, for God's sake! Exactly. If they just went on how good of friends they are, then they'd all sign in Atlanta to re-join Hainsey. And Koivu would've left town as soon as he could to play with Recchi... and now Rivet. Friends don't determine where people work. A lack of good ones might be a reason for leaving, but you just go to a new place and meet new friends, and keep in contact with the old ones. It's called regular life. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 16, 2009 Share Posted January 16, 2009 Just wondering here, Vinnie would be just over 3 mill hit this year, just under half a year. How much have we saved from Saku, BGL, Tang, Price, Komo........ We must be close to that in savings. I think we needn't shed much salary, thanks to injury. Am I close to right? If Pleks and Higgins go, it would be about 1 mill saved, plus injury savings. ....Are we close? As of today, Lecavalier's remaining cap hit is $3,215,725.81. Combined, Plekanec, Higgins, and Gorges (since his name's been in there as well) have a remaining cap hit of $2,058,064.52, a difference of $1,157,661.29. The Habs have projected payroll space (based on the roster staying as is) of $353,483.34, meaning there's still $804,177.95 that would have to be cut off the roster. As to find players who can make that amount, use the screenshot in the cap thread, stickied at the top of this forum. The 5 guys you mentioned have saved the Habs absolutely squat, as none has been placed on LTIR, nor have the Habs gone over the cap except for one day (Dandenault was placed on LTIR for that to work, and since they're back under the cap, there's no further savings there either). Being hurt does not mean instant cap savings, I can't stress that enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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