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Moen is still on our first PK unit. And we have less PKers today than we did at the end of the season.

Really, he's hardly keeping a spot from anyone at this point. And his salary is perfectly acceptable as the team is nowhere near the cap.

I think we can do better then Moen. I'd rather have a guy who can kill penalties AND be a hard hitter. When Moen came over, I didn't know much about him, other then he won a cup in Anaheim. He was described as a fairly big, hard hitting physical player. For a team that lacks size, you need to have guys that have some size actually use their size on a regular basis.

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Personally, i think White and Darche more then enough of Moen replacments. Moen doesn't hit that u h either.

I'd have to disagree with that somewhat. Moen has been 2nd on the team in hits for each season he has been with the club; his cumulative total is tops over that span as well. I think we all fell guilty of hearing 'hitter' and expecting him to run down everyone in the opposite coloured jersey which as we know now, isn't really his game. What he gives you is some physical play and mostly good defence. A full season of White (if he plays like he did in his second stint as his first one earlier in the year was a joke) will help Moen notably as it will take more of the physical load away from him. They can be complementary players on a newly styled physical 4th line, I don't think Moen needs to go because White will be there full time. Moving him could free up a little cap space but with what's left out there (I'll have an article on that tonight by the way), freeing space up for this year right now is becoming less of a priority as there isn't much left to spend on.

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I think we can do better then Moen. I'd rather have a guy who can kill penalties AND be a hard hitter. When Moen came over, I didn't know much about him, other then he won a cup in Anaheim. He was described as a fairly big, hard hitting physical player. For a team that lacks size, you need to have guys that have some size actually use their size on a regular basis.

I have read your thinking on and off for some time now, and for the most part I find myself agreeing more than disagreeing with your views. However, even at the threat of a gun I can’t agree with you on this issue.

It’s not Moen that has changed, it is Martin that has changed Moen and so many others, including Gomez that have had their strengths diluted with in a ‘ Martin system’. A system he has been using for the past 16 years with little or no success. One might think, if you are too stubborn to adapt to the new NHL why would you expect the end result to be different. He has a defense first system relying on the Power play and his players are not allowed to take penalties or retaliate, warranted or not. If you should break this rule, you get the famous ‘ non-confidence’ label.

Unfortunately, whatever player PG looks for to play with a edge Martin will sit until he becomes another Moen or Pouliot. We have most of the right players with the wrong Coach and system.

The good news, or BAD News is It’s only a matter of time before he stabs PG in the back, so he can move into the GM’s job and drag this organization down to the level he accomplished in Florida.

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I have read your thinking on and off for some time now, and for the most part I find myself agreeing more than disagreeing with your views. However, even at the threat of a gun I can’t agree with you on this issue.

It’s not Moen that has changed, it is Martin that has changed Moen and so many others, including Gomez that have had their strengths diluted with in a ‘ Martin system’. A system he has been using for the past 16 years with little or no success. One might think, if you are too stubborn to adapt to the new NHL why would you expect the end result to be different. He has a defense first system relying on the Power play and his players are not allowed to take penalties or retaliate, warranted or not. If you should break this rule, you get the famous ‘ non-confidence’ label.

Unfortunately, whatever player PG looks for to play with a edge Martin will sit until he becomes another Moen or Pouliot. We have most of the right players with the wrong Coach and system.

The good news, or BAD News is It’s only a matter of time before he stabs PG in the back, so he can move into the GM’s job and drag this organization down to the level he accomplished in Florida.

I love when a plan comes together.

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Oh good, yet another thread that mutates into a 'Martin sucks!' argument. I agree, between getting to the semi-finals and then taking an injury-decimated squad to Game 7 OT against the eventual Cup champs, Martin has conspicuously failed to get this team to play up to its potential. Travis Moen is the second coming of Bob Gainey, but it's Martin's system that is robbing him of multiple Selke trophies; just as we are the 1987 Edmonton Oilers, being held back by Martin's self-evidently idiotic commitment to team defence. :thumbs_up:

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I have read your thinking on and off for some time now, and for the most part I find myself agreeing more than disagreeing with your views. However, even at the threat of a gun I can’t agree with you on this issue.

It’s not Moen that has changed, it is Martin that has changed Moen and so many others, including Gomez that have had their strengths diluted with in a ‘ Martin system’. A system he has been using for the past 16 years with little or no success. One might think, if you are too stubborn to adapt to the new NHL why would you expect the end result to be different. He has a defense first system relying on the Power play and his players are not allowed to take penalties or retaliate, warranted or not. If you should break this rule, you get the famous ‘ non-confidence’ label.

Unfortunately, whatever player PG looks for to play with a edge Martin will sit until he becomes another Moen or Pouliot. We have most of the right players with the wrong Coach and system.

The good news, or BAD News is It’s only a matter of time before he stabs PG in the back, so he can move into the GM’s job and drag this organization down to the level he accomplished in Florida.

poor old jm just can't win. When we have success it is the asst coach or the players or the other team is just no damn good. If we struggle well then obviously it is the system and jm should never have been hired and needs to fired immediately. What complete hogwash.

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Oh good, yet another thread that mutates into a 'Martin sucks!' argument. I agree, between getting to the semi-finals and then taking an injury-decimated squad to Game 7 OT against the eventual Cup champs, Martin has conspicuously failed to get this team to play up to its potential. Travis Moen is the second coming of Bob Gainey, but it's Martin's system that is robbing him of multiple Selke trophies; just as we are the 1987 Edmonton Oilers, being held back by Martin's self-evidently idiotic commitment to team defence. :thumbs_up:

Huh! So much verbiage with very little substance. Not sure if you were playing the role of ‘The Devils Advocate’ or just chastising anyone’s view that is in conflict with yours. I am not reading anything in your argument that is constructive to build on . . .perhaps, that is your point, ‘leave no habs fan standing’ and it’s not necessary.

My view came from stats on Moen and Gomez; Finishing your checks can and often bring penalties deserved or not. I guess the true test will be to see if Cole with 225 hits last season is forced to change his style of play.

Moen with SJS and ANA had 171 hits. In his first year in Montreal he continued to play his style with 161 hits to the coach’s disliking with less ice time. This last season he had 129 hits with more ice time.

Gomez with NY had 61 hits, this year with Montreal, 30 hits and even a benching as to help change his style

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Huh! So much verbiage with very little substance. Not sure if you were playing the role of ‘The Devils Advocate’ or just chastising anyone’s view that is in conflict with yours. I am not reading anything in your argument that is constructive to build on . . .perhaps, that is your point, ‘leave no habs fan standing’ and it’s not necessary.

My view came from stats on Moen and Gomez; Finishing your checks can and often bring penalties deserved or not. I guess the true test will be to see if Cole with 225 hits last season is forced to change his style of play.

Moen with SJS and ANA had 171 hits. In his first year in Montreal he continued to play his style with 161 hits to the coach’s disliking with less ice time. This last season he had 129 hits with more ice time.

Gomez with NY had 61 hits, this year with Montreal, 30 hits and even a benching as to help change his style

Your argument is a massive fallacy. You think JM told them to hit less? How do you know? You say yourself that the only thing you are looking at is stats. Stats = what the coach says? Did JM also tell Gomez to score less points?

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My view came from stats on Moen and Gomez; Finishing your checks can and often bring penalties deserved or not. I guess the true test will be to see if Cole with 225 hits last season is forced to change his style of play.

Moen with SJS and ANA had 171 hits. In his first year in Montreal he continued to play his style with 161 hits to the coach's disliking with less ice time. This last season he had 129 hits with more ice time.

Gomez with NY had 61 hits, this year with Montreal, 30 hits and even a benching as to help change his style

There is a degree of subjectivity to hitting as well, each team statistician has their own definition of what constitutes a hit. 5 or so years ago, the Habs were atop the league every year by a long shot; if a Hab blinked at a player, he was credited with a hit. Now, the pendulum has swung the other way, the Habs are (rightfully) toward the bottom in this department.

This makes it hard to compare hit stats from other teams. Were the Sharks, Ducks, and Rangers teams that had inflated hit totals? Deflated? Actually accurate? I seem to remember from a study I read a few years back that the Rangers like the Habs had inflated totals but I'm not sure about recent years. Cole will be an interesting one this year too, will he stay at that total, rise, or drop significantly, even if his style doesn't change?

I suppose a true measure would be to compare hit stats from home and away, it would at least identify home biases which would clear up a bit of the uncertainty. Though I thought I knew of a site that had these breakdowns, it escapes me at this time; I know the NHL site just has total hits and not the home/away split. Regardless, I don't think just looking at a players' hit total can accurately paint a full picture because of the subjectivity associated with real-time stats.

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This is supposed to be a rumour thread, not an argument over the capabilities of our head coach.

Martin has been incredible. It is laughable that somebody thinks he is reigning in players in an attempt to one day take PG's job.

Isn't is usually the coach who gets fired when players don't perform?

Moen is a good, serviceable 3rd or 4th liner. He'll play hard and score the odd goal. But to suggest his stats are down because of miss use is ignorant and wrong.

There are SO many factors that go into stats.

So PLEASE... Leave the coach alone. As long as we're in the playoffs contending each year, WHO CARES!

ALso... anybody got any rumours?

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I wish people wouldn't tease us like that... Anyways, Habs have nowhere near enough cap space for that unless we shipped out Gomez, which would leave us with only one top six center.

Actually, now that I think about it, isn't Cammy a natural center?

Kostitsyn - Pleks - Cole

Pacioretty - Cammy - Gionta

Eller (Trotter while injured) - Desharnais - Palushaj

Darche - Engqvist - Moen

White

Markov - Doughty

Subban - Gill

Gorges - Spacek

Yemelin

I can dream, right?

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I wish people wouldn't tease us like that... Anyways, Habs have nowhere near enough cap space for that unless we shipped out Gomez, which would leave us with only one top six center.

Actually, now that I think about it, isn't Cammy a natural center?

Kostitsyn - Pleks - Cole

Pacioretty - Cammy - Gionta

Eller (Trotter while injured) - Desharnais - Palushaj

Darche - Engqvist - Moen

White

Markov - Doughty

Subban - Gill

Gorges - Spacek

Yemelin

I can dream, right?

Dream away, but Cammy has been pretty clear that he prefers to play the wing. He's one guy that I don't think you want to alienate.

Obviously I share TheDrivefor25's impatience with the ongoing claim that Martin is some sort of awful coach - a claim that many fans persist in maintaining despite the fact that he is the first coach since Demers who has actually put the Habs on a footing where they have a bona fide chance to win. The grass truly is always greener. Hence the intemperance of my earlier post. I swear, if JM had more media charisma, he would be much more respected among these fans, who seem chronically to confuse image and substance.

I think we need to resign ourselves to Gomer for at least one more season and cross our fingers that he bounces back. It is, however, a lot of fun to imagine the wheeling and dealing that would be needed both to unload Gomez and then to replace him. If Brian Jerk were our GM, for instance, I guarantee you that Gomez would have been moved by now and some sort of crazy deal arranged to bring in another C. Of course, true to Burke's form, the net result would not necessarily be a stronger team, just a busier one ^_^

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http://www.thefourthperiod.com/news/mtl110703.html

According to the above story, Gauthier sniffed around Yandle and Suter either at the trade deadline or recently. Yandle is apparently hesitant to sign long term in Phoenix because of the ownership situation. Getting either of those players would be a real long shot, but it encourages me to hear (even whispers) that PG is sniffing around other teams' better players. Yandle had 59 points last year (his 3rd full year in the league), 32 of which were at even strength. Either of these guys would give the Habs that elite defense that CC (I think it's CC) was suggesting would be a good idea (which I agree).

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To be honest, Yandle would give us a great #3 D for the near future behind Markov and Subban. Suter would give us a top pairing D that would challenge Markov.

That said, I can't imagine that the Preds will shop Suter after dealing Franson and the Lombardi headache.

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Rumour is that J.F Jacques has received a call from Gauthier. From Brian's UFA writeup on the frontpage:

J-F Jacques: He isn't an enforcer by definition but drops the gloves a few times a season and is more the type of physical player Martin will want. Being unqualified by the NHL's last place team does say something though.

Had 5 points (4 goals) and 63 PIMS in 51 games last season. 111 hits as well. The previous season he had 11 points (4 goals) and 78 PIMs in 49 games, and led the Oilers in hits with 158.

Yay or nay?

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I personally liked Konopka for 2 reasons, he won fights and faceoffs. He also hits alot. he has plenty fo flaws as well.

3rd and 4th liners a re a dime a dozen. that's why they change teams so much.

They'll pick up another Halpern type guy if they need to, maybe JM thinks Engqvist (spelling) can do the job.

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Wamsley's right that these guys are a dime a dozen. While I'd prefer to get a quality guy in that role and stick to him, a lot of teams are on this particular merry-go-round. As long as we get someone reliable, I'm happy.

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Wamsley's right that these guys are a dime a dozen. While I'd prefer to get a quality guy in that role and stick to him, a lot of teams are on this particular merry-go-round. As long as we get someone reliable, I'm happy.

I agree, if a guy does well why not sign him again.

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About 30 minutes ago my friend told me the Habs had made a trade with the LA Kings. I checked everywhere, found nothing, and called him a liar. Now EK (yes, that idiot) has just posted that the Kings are up to something...

My friend is now gloating saying it is a trade with Montreal. He's called 50 times in the last 4 minutes. We bet a case of beer that it was a lie.

Probably just a coincidence... but stay tuned!

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