Permanent Rumour Thread

[KamalPanesar]

OK, I don't tend to mong rumours, but this one came out on-air today on the Sunday Shinny on TSN 990.

We had JT Utah, from 25Stanley.com, on the show and he claims to have a source indicating the Habs offered Price a 7 year, $49 million deal. Apparently, Price's camp came back with a 10 year, $70 million deal.

Yowza!

Here's the piece I wrote on it:

http://www.habsaddict.com/2012/01/is-carey-price-about-to-sign-long-term.html

I also included the podcast, at the end, that you can listen to our livley discussion about this topic!

[Colin]

OK, I don't tend to mong rumours, but this one came out on-air today on the Sunday Shinny on TSN 990.

We had JT Utah, from 25Stanley.com, on the show and he claims to have a source indicating the Habs offered Price a 7 year, $49 million deal. Apparently, Price's camp came back with a 10 year, $70 million deal.

Yowza!

Here's the piece I wrote on it:

http://www.habsaddic...-long-term.html

I also included the podcast, at the end, that you can listen to our livley discussion about this topic!

I would happily sign either of those. The Habs should take his offer and run with it. When the cap is at $100M and he's making a comparable pittance, we'll look like geniuses. And if there's one thing I think we can actually bank on: Price is the real deal.

[JMMR]

10 years for a goalie is a long time but if he really wants the money and to stay in Montreal I would say do it.

He better know as soon as he signs that deal the pressure would be even more insane.

[JMMR]

Rivet was a much better all around player than Gill is.

It's hard to get an honest, objective reading on just how much the players on your team are worth on the open market. Frankly, I think most of our guys could be moved for 2nd or 3rd round picks. More than that seems optimistic.

-Gill is not worth a 1st-round pick under any circumstances. I can see him commanding a 2nd-round pick from a higher-end team looking to complete its roster for the playoffs, but even that's a stretch. 2nd round pick'd be great return.

-Weber: the kid has potential but zero record of achievement. Maybe a 2nd rounder if you're lucky. More likely a 4th rounder, or a player swap (team that wants a young PP specialist trades a young potential FW, something like that).

We will have to agree to disagree.

I really think Gill will garnish a very low first rounder.

As for Weber he is the same age as PK I really would not trade him unless it was overpayment at this stage.

[hab29RETIRED]

I'd have no hesitation signing him long term. However, I wish they would front load the deal to get a lower cap hit. For example, on a ten year deal, offer him $10m payable July 1, 2012, and then $5m/yr over the life of the contract. Total cost for us is $60m, rather then $70m and more importantly a cap hit of $6m/yr.

Incentive for Price is that he gets a total of $15m during the first year of the contract.

As for the pressure that would be on Price, given the amount of pressure that he went through in his first three years, I wouldn't be concerned.

10 years for a goalie is a long time but if he really wants the money and to stay in Montreal I would say do it.

He better know as soon as he signs that deal the pressure would be even more insane.

[JMMR]

I'd have no hesitation signing him long term. However, I wish they would front load the deal to get a lower cap hit. For example, on a ten year deal, offer him $10m payable July 1, 2012, and then $5m/yr over the life of the contract. Total cost for us is $60m, rather then $70m and more importantly a cap hit of $6m/yr.

Incentive for Price is that he gets a total of $15m during the first year of the contract.

As for the pressure that would be on Price, given the amount of pressure that he went through in his first three years, I wouldn't be concerned.

Sure why not or even what I would love to see some non Kovalchuck cap circumvention.

Sign Price till he is 37 or 39.

[hab29RETIRED]

I think you are missing the point. In September I wouldn't even. E willing to give up a 3rd rounder for Gill, since he has limited use 5 on 5. However to a contender who is looking for depth, PK help and shot blocking in the more defensively played Stanley cup finals, a 2nd round pick is almost a no brainer return and there WILL be GM's willing to roll the dice that a guy like Gill can be a difference maker to put them over the top in the finals.

Last year. If I was a contender, as much as I hate regular season fill, I would have been much more willing to give up a 1st rounder for gill and his playoff pedigree then the ridiculous price the bruins gave up for a born loser like Kaberle. Winning and having one counts for a lot.

As for AK46, a 1st rounder is the absolute minimum.

Weber was messed up by our coaching staff - Martin. You don't take a young kid trying to make it into the NHL and expect him to be able to flip back and forth as a dman and forward and then expect him to become a good NHL dman. A guy like Streit was a different case. Eca use he was already 25 or 26 when he came over.

Rivet was a much better all around player than Gill is.

There's a certain surreality to fans' wish list here. It's like the Cammalleri trade. We all feel Gauthier should have gotten more. Now that may be true, but it also may NOT be true. I also find it funny that posters who relentlessly rag on certain players as glaring pieces of crap nevertheless expect Gauthier to trade them for quality value.

It's hard to get an honest, objective reading on just how much the players on your team are worth on the open market. Frankly, I think most of our guys could be moved for 2nd or 3rd round picks. More than that seems optimistic.

-Gill is not worth a 1st-round pick under any circumstances. I can see him commanding a 2nd-round pick from a higher-end team looking to complete its roster for the playoffs, but even that's a stretch. 2nd round pick'd be great return.

-AK46 *might* command a 1st-round pick if he gets super-hot leading up to the deadline, but again, I don't see it. Think 2nd-rounder.

-Weber: the kid has potential but zero record of achievement. Maybe a 2nd rounder if you're lucky. More likely a 4th rounder, or a player swap (team that wants a young PP specialist trades a young potential FW, something like that).

-Moen: 2nd rounder. In some ways, I think he will be out hottest commodity at the deadline. Cup winner, has produced in the playoffs before, adds grit and leadership, won't alter your 'core' or disrupt chemistry - a perfect deadline pickup.

-Campoli: will be desirable, but his value's low. 4th-5th rounder.

This is why I was counting on Gauthier to PACKAGE Cammalleri with some of these guys. Because I can't see any of them, taken in isolation, yielding a return that is sufficient to make a real impact on the future of this team.

[Habsy]

We will have to agree to disagree.

I really think Gill will garnish a very low first rounder.

As for Weber he is the same age as PK I really would not trade him unless it was overpayment at this stage.

It's not even debatable. I hope "guest" to this website from other teams don't think we believe he's worth a 1st.

[brobin]

there is not a single player in this league I would sign for 10 years. If Pitts is lucky, Crosby is either great again or quits. If he comes back and is a mediocre player, the franchise is in trouble. Same goes for Ovie.

Long term contracts represent a lack of confidence by the player and the team taking all the risk. $7 mill a year is for a very very elite goalie. Price hasn't even done that yet, but we are going to assume he will for 10 years? What if he get a back problem? What if his knees start going? What if he just loses his passion? Have we learned nothing from Gomez? Have we learned nothing from DiPietro?

Sign him for 5 years and then re-evalutate in year 4.

[Commandant]

I can't see Gill being worth a first either.

The only guy who might be is AK, and I'm not even sure there.

Last year we saw a lot more firsts move, but Scouts last year were saying it was a relatively weak draft at the bottom of the first round.

This year is the deepest drafts since the lockout by all accounts. I think teams will be much more reluctant to give up 1sts.

[Colin]

I can't see Gill being worth a first either.

The only guy who might be is AK, and I'm not even sure there.

Last year we saw a lot more firsts move, but Scouts last year were saying it was a relatively weak draft at the bottom of the first round.

This year is the deepest drafts since the lockout by all accounts. I think teams will be much more reluctant to give up 1sts.

Somewhere around Montreal, there's a distortion field, I'm sure.

To a team desperate to improve their PK and acquire more depth on defence as they go on a Cup run, there's no reason why they wouldn't pay a 1st rounder for Gill. It's not going to be a top pick, and when you look at the draft, I believe anywhere from 15-60 could be anything from an ECHLer to a bonified NHLer. Don't grade Gill for what he is, rather grade him based on what he can give a specific team based on their needs. Put a couple of teams in the same boat and you have a "bidding war" wherein Gill surely nets far more than he's ostensibly worth.

As for Kostitsyn, he's worth a first rounder regardless of how you look at the situation. A guy who's scored at a fairly regular rate playing lesser minutes on a defensive-minded team. If they can't get a first for him, Gauthier should be tarred and feathered. And yes, I know he's UFA - which should mean there'll be more than a few teams interested in his services.

[hab29RETIRED]

I don't see him being worth a 1st eIther, frankly I wouldn't even give up a 3rd. But gm's do stupid things T the deadline. Hell look at the Gomez trade. Even sather said that he never thought he would actually have been able to get mcDonough included in that deal!!! Point is, you at least have to ASK and try to get the most you an get.

Gm's do overpay at the deadline, so you never know. That is what pIsses me off the most about the Cammy trade. There is no reason (other then desperation on PG's part), for the deal going down when it did.

I also don't think there should have been any hesitation to trade within the Conference to a team like the caps.

I can't see Gill being worth a first either.

The only guy who might be is AK, and I'm not even sure there.

Last year we saw a lot more firsts move, but Scouts last year were saying it was a relatively weak draft at the bottom of the first round.

This year is the deepest drafts since the lockout by all accounts. I think teams will be much more reluctant to give up 1sts.

I don't see him being worth a 1st eIther, frankly I wouldn't even give up a 3rd. But gm's do stupid things T the deadline. Hell look at the Gomez trade. Even sather said that he never thought he would actually have been able to get mcDonough included in that deal!!! Point is, you at least have to ASK and try to get the most you an get.

Gm's do overpay at the deadline, so you never know. That is what pIsses me off the most about the Cammy trade. There is no reason (other then desperation on PG's part), for the deal going down when it did.

I also don't think there should have been any hesitation to trade within the Conference to a team like the caps.

I can't see Gill being worth a first either.

The only guy who might be is AK, and I'm not even sure there.

Last year we saw a lot more firsts move, but Scouts last year were saying it was a relatively weak draft at the bottom of the first round.

This year is the deepest drafts since the lockout by all accounts. I think teams will be much more reluctant to give up 1sts.

I don't see him being worth a 1st eIther, frankly I wouldn't even give up a 3rd. But gm's do stupid things T the deadline. Hell look at the Gomez trade. Even sather said that he never thought he would actually have been able to get mcDonough included in that deal!!! Point is, you at least have to ASK and try to get the most you an get.

Gm's do overpay at the deadline, so you never know. That is what pIsses me off the most about the Cammy trade. There is no reason (other then desperation on PG's part), for the deal going down when it did.

I also don't think there should have been any hesitation to trade within the Conference to a team like the caps.

I can't see Gill being worth a first either.

The only guy who might be is AK, and I'm not even sure there.

Last year we saw a lot more firsts move, but Scouts last year were saying it was a relatively weak draft at the bottom of the first round.

This year is the deepest drafts since the lockout by all accounts. I think teams will be much more reluctant to give up 1sts.

[Commandant]

I agree, when trading UFAs there should be no difference if you trade within the conference or outside of it.

As for Gill, we'll have to agree to disagree, I just don't see a 1st coming back.... although I''d love it to happen.

Not much we can do from here either, just gotta wait and see on that.

[Colin]

I don't see him being worth a 1st eIther, frankly I wouldn't even give up a 3rd. But gm's do stupid things T the deadline. Hell look at the Gomez trade. Even sather said that he never thought he would actually have been able to get mcDonough included in that deal!!! Point is, you at least have to ASK and try to get the most you an get.

Gm's do overpay at the deadline, so you never know. That is what pIsses me off the most about the Cammy trade. There is no reason (other then desperation on PG's part), for the deal going down when it did.

I also don't think there should have been any hesitation to trade within the Conference to a team like the caps.

I don't see him being worth a 1st eIther, frankly I wouldn't even give up a 3rd. But gm's do stupid things T the deadline. Hell look at the Gomez trade. Even sather said that he never thought he would actually have been able to get mcDonough included in that deal!!! Point is, you at least have to ASK and try to get the most you an get.

Gm's do overpay at the deadline, so you never know. That is what pIsses me off the most about the Cammy trade. There is no reason (other then desperation on PG's part), for the deal going down when it did.

I also don't think there should have been any hesitation to trade within the Conference to a team like the caps.

I don't see him being worth a 1st eIther, frankly I wouldn't even give up a 3rd. But gm's do stupid things T the deadline. Hell look at the Gomez trade. Even sather said that he never thought he would actually have been able to get mcDonough included in that deal!!! Point is, you at least have to ASK and try to get the most you an get.

Gm's do overpay at the deadline, so you never know. That is what pIsses me off the most about the Cammy trade. There is no reason (other then desperation on PG's part), for the deal going down when it did.

I also don't think there should have been any hesitation to trade within the Conference to a team like the caps.

Emphatic in responding 3 times! I like that.

[hab29RETIRED]

Emphatic in responding 3 times! I like that.

Replying on the iPhone is problematic at times - especially at the airport with spotty wireless coverage

[Habsy]

Replying on the iPhone is problematic at times - especially at the airport with spotty wireless coverage

I've noticed, you travel too much. We have a game to lose tonight, c'mon.

[BlueKross]

While you are all talking about picks you might get; there is also the scenerio were the guy you want to move gets hurt just before you want to move him. Things have gone pretty bad around here but there is still room for them to get worse. I wanted to wait longer but the moving of Cammy is the signal to start the turnover.

[hab29RETIRED]

I've noticed, you travel too much. We have a game to lose tonight, c'mon.

Have to travel a lot for my job. Just touched down in Kamloops (armpit of BC) - with apologize to my sister and others who live in kamloops;). Will have to listen to the game on TSN Radio

[Colin]

Have to travel a lot for my job. Just touched down in Kamloops (armpit of BC) - with apologize to my sister and others who live in kamloops;). Will have to listen to the game on TSN Radio

Any armpit of BC is better than the weather in Ontario right now.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

See, the same folks who on this board deride Gill as barely even a 6th defenceman, one who cannot take a regular shift, are expecting other teams to surrender a first for him. This way, of course, they can be outraged when we finally do move him for less than a first.

I agree that it'd be nice to move him for a first round pick and that sometimes hungry GMs do dumb things. But REALISTICALLY you cannot assume that teams are gonna surrender a first-round pick for Hal Gill.

As for Price, hoo boy, $7 million? Yikes. Sounds like he's got the Habs by the balls and is going to squeeze for all he's worth.

[JMMR]

The cap is currently just over 63 million, up form like 50 million 4 years ago.

It will continue to rise for sure I would say it will be over 70 million in 2 years and Price is worth 10% of cap FOR SURE.

I am excited to see what the Habs get for Gill, either to eat crow or get to say told you so.

Either way I can not wait for deadline day.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The cap is currently just over 63 million, up form like 50 million 4 years ago.

It will continue to rise for sure I would say it will be over 70 million in 2 years and Price is worth 10% of cap FOR SURE.

I am excited to see what the Habs get for Gill, either to eat crow or get to say told you so.

Either way I can not wait for deadline day.

Trust me, if we rack up a pile of first-round picks at the deadline, I will happily eat that crow and his entire family. I just have trouble seeing it.

[Trizzak]

Guys, Gauthier will trade Gill, but he'll target a very specific team to get what should fall between the 44th and 47th OA pick. That's the pick he wants, so that's the pick he gets, and it's laudable for Gauthier to always get what he wants - nothing less ... and nothing more.

[dlbalr]

It will continue to rise for sure I would say it will be over 70 million in 2 years and Price is worth 10% of cap FOR SURE.

No way it gets to 70 million in 2 years. The cap is going down in the next CBA for the sole reason that the league isn't going to agree to give the players 57% of HRR as they're getting now. Yes, Winnipeg will help the league HRR compared to Atlanta but not enough to compensate...the lower exchange rate will also drop things a bit. Here are the rough numbers:

$64.3 M cap hit * 30 teams = 1,929,000,000 to the players

1,929,000,000 / 57% HRR = approx 3,384,210,500 total HRR

For the sake of estimation, let's put this year's HRR at 3.4 billion (and I think that's going high based on attendance issues in other markets, I think it will be down from last year's despite Winnipeg's increases). Also, let's assume they negotiate back to 54% which is where it was at the start of the CBA (and I think it'll be lower).

54% of 3.4 B divided by 30 is a ceiling of $61.3 million. I truly think it will be lower; even if it's this, it ain't jumping to 70 the next year.

As for the Price report, I don't trust the source, that site has been wrong many, many times before.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Gill could net a second from a team that desperately needs veteran support and penalty killing improvement. Sharks, Blackhawks, Red Wings, Senators and Predators fit that bill.

Kostitsyn could net a first from a team needing secondary scoring. Los Angeles is the best bet there.

Moen could possibly net a first but likely more a second or decent prospect from anyone in the league. Teams love a guy like Moen.

Weber has little value himself but a lot more value in a package. Surprised it was Ramo instead of Weber who went with Cammalleri.