Permanent Rumour Thread

[DON]

stirring stirring stirring. How's that pot Don?

Pacioretty comment;

"This year, [Galchenyuk] gained more experience than any other year, whether it be on the ice, switching positions every now and then, or switching linemates, and then off the ice… not a tough year but he learned a lot. It helped him prepare for the last however many games, 20 games maybe, when he definitely played the best hockey of his career."

How much of this one from Jan. is accurate? Never heard Bergevin had met with Galchenyuk and lawyers. Or Subban escorted him from establishment. A rumour(s) maybe, but that is the thread so fits.

https://habsterix.com/2016/01/24/the-enigma-that-is-alex-galchenyuk/

https://habsterix.com/2016/05/14/galchenyuk-has-gained-in-maturity/

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

In all honestly, I don't see DON as a pot-stirrer. He's a guy who makes a point of assuming out management are not idiots and therefore takes their point of view seriously. I'd call that a valuable asset in a fan-base where nearly every man jack thinks he's 10X the expert on Habs player development and usage than professionals who have dedicated their lives to those subjects. Just saying.

[Commandant]

That Habsterix guy is an F'Ing Idiot.... thats all i'm gonna say about how accurate his reports are.

And lets be clear here... EVERYONE else's report is that Galchenyuk's girlfriend assaulted him, and he did not retaliate... so sure, if you want to blame him cause his girlfriend was abusive go ahead.. but to me that is bullshit.

[KoRP]

Yeah, that's as much a pile o' shit as DD being a better option at C than Galchenyuk... even out of training camp. Utter nonsense.

[Commandant]

For the record.

Alex Galchenyuk was the 2nd line centre coming out of training camp.

DD was third.

Galchenyuk only moved to wing in late december, when we couldn't score to save our lives, and had injuries to our top 6 including gallagher. What was a three line attack up until that point was consolidated down to two lines and two grinding lines in an attempt to get more offence by putting more offensive talent on each line. This happened for about 2 months until he was moved back to centre.

So really he played 75% of the year as the number 2 or number 1 centre on the depth chart. He wasn't behind DD. The only thing you can really say is that he spent 2 months on Plekanec's wing, while DD played C with Pacioretty. When both were at C, Galchenyuk generally played on a higher line.

[Commandant]

As for ice time... DD's shifts are usually a little longer than Galchenyuks.

I wonder if Galchenyuk needs to work a bit on his conditioning.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Fantastic points, Commandant. But the 'demonization' of MT has long passed the point of reason, so no number of mere facts will be sufficient to dislodge the idea that Therrien is simply scheming to destroy Galchenyuk while giving DD 45 minutes of ice per night.

[Davehab]

Fantastic points, Commandant. But the 'demonization' of MT has long passed the point of reason, so no number of mere facts will be sufficient to dislodge the idea that Therrien is simply scheming to destroy Galchenyuk while giving DD 45 minutes of ice per night.

This is what I've been saying all along....jeez finally someone gets it

[habs rule]

Fantastic points, Commandant. But the 'demonization' of MT has long passed the point of reason, so no number of mere facts will be sufficient to dislodge the idea that Therrien is simply scheming to destroy Galchenyuk while giving DD 45 minutes of ice per night.

The demonisationon of Le Genius is pretty damn easy after a year like we just had. But we are stuck with him for now. You can say that it was Galchenyuk's fault he did not play more at #1 center and I can say it was Le Genius's. You obviously are looking at the world through rose coloured glasses. This guy does not do well with Super Stars. Aka Subban and Galchenyuk. Patches has always been his own man, and really I think gives a fiddlers fork what Le Genius thinks. Le Genius loves his 3rd and 4th liners. That is what he was, a grinder. He believes that you win with 3rd and 4th liners. I have no idea why you think it beyond the point of reason. Simply put. He has no concept of offence and his stats bare that out. He overplays vets and does not allow any mistakes by jr players. And the stats bare that out. It is my consistent and ongoing opinion that he is a lousy coach with a decent team and a world class goalie. No goalie no win. No goalie no plan. Really he does have a plan but it HIS plan and does not take into account his players and their talents. Why does DD play so much? Especialy on the PP?

Now for all of you who will jump on me, I did not bring him up I only answered a statement I believe to be erroneous.

He is a lousy coach and until we get a good coach we will not win a cup. I pray to the great pumpkin I am wrong but I doubt it.

NO MORE FORKING EXCUSES.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

The demonisationon of Le Genius is pretty damn easy after a year like we just had. But we are stuck with him for now. You can say that it was Galchenyuk's fault he did not play more at #1 center and I can say it was Le Genius's. You obviously are looking at the world through rose coloured glasses. This guy does not do well with Super Stars. Aka Subban and Galchenyuk. Patches has always been his own man, and really I think gives a fiddlers fork what Le Genius thinks. Le Genius loves his 3rd and 4th liners. That is what he was, a grinder. He believes that you win with 3rd and 4th liners. I have no idea why you think it beyond the point of reason. Simply put. He has no concept of offence and his stats bare that out. He overplays vets and does not allow any mistakes by jr players. And the stats bare that out. It is my consistent and ongoing opinion that he is a lousy coach with a decent team and a world class goalie. No goalie no win. No goalie no plan. Really he does have a plan but it HIS plan and does not take into account his players and their talents. Why does DD play so much? Especialy on the PP?

Now for all of you who will jump on me, I did not bring him up I only answered a statement I believe to be erroneous.

He is a lousy coach and until we get a good coach we will not win a cup. I pray to the great pumpkin I am wrong but I doubt it.

NO MORE FORKING EXCUSES.

As Commandant pointed out, DD plays a lot because the team has four top-6 FWs. If it wasn't DD, it'd be some other guy (with less offensive vision than DD, I might add).

As Commandant also pointed out, Galchenyuk started the season ahead of DD on the C depth chart and remained so for most of the year.

In terms of Subban, I see a guy who plays 30 minutes a night. So I don't understand how we can condemn Therrien for his usage of Subban (as opposed to, say, a negative comment in a press conference, or rumours of tension between the two).

All that said, is Therrien a great coach? No. The point of my sarcastic remark was that the attack on him has been blown completely out of all proportion, 'distorted beyond reason' to quote Elvis Costello. And I stand by that point. It's the 'coaching' version of the demonization of Patrice Brisebois.

[illWill]

Listening to people complain about Therrien doing this or not doing that reminds me of sitting in a rink and hearing old ladies with no clue about hockey constantly yelling "SHOOT". It doesn't matter if there's no lane to get the shot through or if they are in the corner with the puck on the backhand, they want them to shoot the damn puck. Well, I'm a firm believer that anyone who is a paid professional in the very best league in the world knows exactly what they are doing and everyone else's opinion is just that, an opinion. I'm not going to tell a mechanic how to fix my car or a dentist how to fill my tooth, I'm going to go with what the professional thinks is best. But I guess I'm not someone who thinks they know everything.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

For the record.

Alex Galchenyuk was the 2nd line centre coming out of training camp.

DD was third.

Galchenyuk only moved to wing in late december, when we couldn't score to save our lives, and had injuries to our top 6 including gallagher. What was a three line attack up until that point was consolidated down to two lines and two grinding lines in an attempt to get more offence by putting more offensive talent on each line. This happened for about 2 months until he was moved back to centre.

So really he played 75% of the year as the number 2 or number 1 centre on the depth chart. He wasn't behind DD. The only thing you can really say is that he spent 2 months on Plekanec's wing, while DD played C with Pacioretty. When both were at C, Galchenyuk generally played on a higher line.

This is the problem with labeling lines. We can call it the second line all we want. The only way to fairly call it a second line is if we also call Desharnais' line a second line.

Between the start of the season and December 18th (it was the 19th that Desharnais moved back up as a top line centre), this is how the forward minutes broke down at even strength:

Tomas Plekanec: 472 minutes in 33 games (14:19)

Max Pacioretty: 470 minutes in 33 games (14:15)

Tomas Fleischmann: 456 minutes in 33 games (13:49)

David Desharnais: 444 minutes in 33 games (13:28)

Brendan Gallagher: 293 minutes in 22 games (13:20)

Dale Weise: 428 minutes in 33 games (12:58)

Lars Eller: 403 minutes in 33 games (12:13)

Alex Galchenyuk: 402 minutes in 33 games (12:10)

Clearly Plekanec, Pacioretty and Gallagher were the top line. #3, #4 and #6 in ES minutes were the third line of Desharnais, Fleischmann and Weise. At the bottom of the list were the second line with Eller and Galchenyuk. On the PP, Galchenyuk was third with 80:13 at this point which is only 8 minutes more than Desharnais. Remember, Galchenyuk wasn't playing centre on the powerplay up to this point. He was on the wing.

This despite the fact Galchenyuk was third in the club in scoring, 14 of his points coming even strength. His linemates in Eller (9), Semin (4) and Andrighetto (4) dragged behind him. To be fair, that third line was producing quite well at this point on even strength (Fleischmann had 15, DD and Weise had 14) but it just helps magnify that Galchenyuk wasn't being treated like a second line centre. He was only being listed as the second line in lineup sheets. This was all done while Galchenyuk was stuck with, as Commandant said in a Galchenyuk at C vs. W thread:

Its so hard to tell, cause galchenyuk NEVER got top 6 wingers during all the time experimenting with him at C.

So even then he admitted that Galchenyuk wasn't getting top six wingers, but today it's still being called Galchenyuk on the second line. The fact he produced with scrubs like Eller and Semin should have immediately got lines shuffled, but instead it was Chucky getting flip flopped from what position he was on.

So to once again re-iterate, Galchenyuk was never treated like a second line centre, was never given top six wingers to work with, played the eighth most ES minutes at centre while not playing centre on the powerplay and still was able to be a top three scorer for us all things considered. Once put with Pacioretty, his goal scoring increased and established himself as the second best point producer on the club.

This is not to say Therrien ruined Galchenyuk on purpose. This is to say that Therrien's lack of trust was evident from the beginning and that he was never protecting Galchenyuk but holding him back from the position. This has happened countless times with other head coaches. Therrien being more comfortable playing Desharnais isn't because he hates Galchenyuk but because he's more comfortable with a vet. Therrien was reluctant to put hima t centre and the team is now writing the narrative that he just slowly led him up the lineup. That said, it should be remembered that as late as early March, Galchenyuk was playing LW to Mike McCarron. So maybe it wasn't just trusting a veteran. It was that Therrien felt Galchenyuk was better to the team at wing. I don't think he thought that maliciously. I think he just values defence over offence and was willing to sacrifice potential offence from Chuck at centre over any defensive lapses it could create.

[Commandant]

He didn't get top 6 wingers cause we HAD TWO TOP 6 WINGERS... Pacioretty and Gallagher.

When i wrote that post... Pacioretty had played the entire season with Tomas Plekanec (when Galchenyuk was at C)... When Galchenyuk was at LW, he played with Plekanec and DD played with Patch. Gallagher had also played nearly the entire season with Plekanec (or played with DD).

Again he played the second line, but had no top 6 wingers, cause we had 4 top 6 forwards.... and when at centre it was not that DD was ahead of him, Plekanec was.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Again he played the second line, but had no top 6 wingers, cause we had 4 top 6 forwards.... and when at centre it was not that DD was ahead of him, Plekanec was.

How was he be on the second line when his linemates didn't play more than the wingers on DD's third line while Galchenyuk played less minutes than the third line centre?

I don't care what their zone starts were. If a line gets 100% offensive zone starts but plays five minutes a game, that doesn't make it a top line. Lines are about usage and Galchenyuk's line was used less than the Desharnais line. It was not the second line. The only way it can be stated as such is if you say it was 2A and 2B and even, it's arguable that Galchenyuk's line was the 2B.

Galchenyuk played with McCarron for a few games on wing, specifically the March 2nd and 3rd games against the Kings and Ducks. That was while DD was injured. So at first, even when DD was hurt, Michael McCarron got tried at 2C before he did.

Therrien does not trust Galchenyuk with top six centre minutes (or didn't trust until now). That's what every bit of information points to. And that's not a hate thing. That's a coach thing.

[DON]

How was he be on the second line when his linemates didn't play more than the wingers on DD's third line while Galchenyuk played less minutes than the third line centre?

I don't care what their zone starts were. If a line gets 100% offensive zone starts but plays five minutes a game, that doesn't make it a top line. Lines are about usage and Galchenyuk's line was used less than the Desharnais line. It was not the second line. The only way it can be stated as such is if you say it was 2A and 2B and even, it's arguable that Galchenyuk's line was the 2B.

Galchenyuk played with McCarron for a few games on wing, specifically the March 2nd and 3rd games against the Kings and Ducks. That was while DD was injured. So at first, even when DD was hurt, Michael McCarron got tried at 2C before he did.

Therrien does not trust Galchenyuk with top six centre minutes (or didn't trust until now). That's what every bit of information points to. And that's not a hate thing. That's a coach thing.

Coach/Habs Mgmt had him playing when and how much as they deemed appropriate to give them best chance to win, which is quite normal in sports (until winning didn't matter. then they experimented with the like of John Scott and moved Galchenyuk back to centre).

We all know armchair coaches and GMs have smarter ideas and cant seem to figure out why they don't do what they want done. But coaches and GMs have to do it in real life, not fantasy land with no repercussions for bad moves or strategies.

But is funny when someone (like Commandant for example) actually explains it to them in a logical way, they instantly need to try and prove they are wrong, instead of admitting their theory might not be based in reality (or based on anything but icetime #s).

Sort of similar to when someone, or anyone criticizes Subban for anything...instant over the top reaction coming to the super star's defense, even though the criticism may seem valid.

Watch... Subban shouldn't be on Team Canada and is only the 4th best RH d-man in Canada at the moment.

[Machine of Loving Grace]

We all know armchair coaches and GMs have smarter ideas and cant seem to figure out why they don't do what they want done. But coaches and GMs have to do it in real life, not fantasy land with no repercussions for bad moves or strategies.

And coaches/GM's make mistakes. I know I can't do Bergevin or Therrien's job. I would make mistakes in many other areas. However, in these situations, with several respected members of the media have wondered why Galchenyuk wasn't a centre and when he becomes a centre, Therrien is suddenly Joker going, "IT'S ALL PART OF THE PLAN!", it's pretty easy to see what it was. It was backpedaling.

By your troll logic, Mike Milbury was a genius who didn't make mistakes. We are just armchair GMs and don't understand the genius of them.

[habs rule]

Listening to people complain about Therrien doing this or not doing that reminds me of sitting in a rink and hearing old ladies with no clue about hockey constantly yelling "SHOOT". It doesn't matter if there's no lane to get the shot through or if they are in the corner with the puck on the backhand, they want them to shoot the damn puck. Well, I'm a firm believer that anyone who is a paid professional in the very best league in the world knows exactly what they are doing and everyone else's opinion is just that, an opinion. I'm not going to tell a mechanic how to fix my car or a dentist how to fill my tooth, I'm going to go with what the professional thinks is best. But I guess I'm not someone who thinks they know everything.

What a load of crap. Sorry your comment makes no sense. Are all mechanics of the same caliber. I was in the car business as a General manager for over 30 years. There are good mechanics and bad mechanics. I have seen many poor dentists. This guy is a bad coach but that is only my opinion based on 50 years of watching the Habs. Experience does not mean you know how to do it right. Otherwise Millbury and some others I could name would still be working like for instance "the ghost".

[illWill]

What a load of crap. Sorry your comment makes no sense. Are all mechanics of the same caliber. I was in the car business as a General manager for over 30 years. There are good mechanics and bad mechanics. I have seen many poor dentists. This guy is a bad coach but that is only my opinion based on 50 years of watching the Habs. Experience does not mean you know how to do it right. Otherwise Millbury and some others I could name would still be working like for instance "the ghost".

The mechanics you've worked with are not elite level. They are not amongst the top 30 in the world. Therrien is one of the best in the world at his job no matter how much you hate it. If one of your mechanics was one of the best in the world I would listen to him and think he knows what he is doing. That was the point you missed.

[DON]

Troll logic, haha. Not sure what that means but no matter.

We are all armchair GMs, that you are correct about and I will agree with.

Milbury would of had Price and Subban already traded by now.

And clubs also don't tell media why or even if a player is hurt. Does Bill Belichick answer questions about player usage or be expected to? Why should Habs Mgmt be any different, other than answer media questions with clichés, brush em off or change subject. They simply let talking heads and fans speculate is what typically happens, isn't it?

[habs rule]

The mechanics you've worked with are not elite level. They are not amongst the top 30 in the world. Therrien is one of the best in the world at his job no matter how much you hate it. If one of your mechanics was one of the best in the world I would listen to him and think he knows what he is doing. That was the point you missed.

Actually he is just a former hockey player/bouncer who lucked into a great job.

[habs rule]

Troll logic, haha. Not sure what that means but no matter.

We are all armchair GMs, that you are correct about and I will agree with.

Milbury would of had Price and Subban already traded by now.

And clubs also don't tell media why or even if a player is hurt. Does Bill Belichick answer questions about player usage or be expected to? Why should Habs Mgmt be any different, other than answer media questions with clichés, brush em off or change subject. They simply let talking heads and fans speculate is what typically happens, isn't it?

Of course you are right about that. We are fans, not privy to the inner thinking and workings. Maybe cause if they told us, it might prove they were wrong.

I am offended at the troll remark. I don't think that is fair. I thought you would be above that kind of low class shit.

[dlbalr]

Did anyone hear the rumour about this being a rumour thread?

[Guest Stogey24]

The mechanics you've worked with are not elite level. They are not amongst the top 30 in the world. Therrien is one of the best in the world at his job no matter how much you hate it. If one of your mechanics was one of the best in the world I would listen to him and think he knows what he is doing. That was the point you missed.

What

[Machine of Loving Grace]

Did anyone hear the rumour about this being a rumour thread?

Unfortunately nothing really Habs related in Friedman's latest except that future Hab Vadim Shipachyov has huge interest around the league as well as Michal Kempny and Evgenii Dadonov (Ship's linemate).

[dlbalr]

Unfortunately nothing really Habs related in Friedman's latest except that future Hab Vadim Shipachyov has huge interest around the league as well as Michal Kempny and Evgenii Dadonov (Ship's linemate).

That's why I figure Shipachyov's deal is going to be in the $3+ million range. From what he's walking away from to the interest league-wide, there's going to be a bit of a bidding war.

The other name floating around is French d-man Johann Auvitu. 5 teams are apparently interested in a 1 year ELC for him.