Permanent Rumour Thread

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

32 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Exactly.  Its team mentality.  Not one player.  We saw it last year when every scrum became a situation where all the players on the ice got involved, even guys like Hutson and Caufield.  

 

I agree it's not just one player and it's a team mentality but how often do you want guys like Hutson and Caulfield involved in scrums. 

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

22 minutes ago, WildTurkeyXX said:

Yup, and as it stands (including Arber) we have 3 players who bring that quality (legitimately). We probably need about 3 more. Which is why swapping one out, even for another of equal physical value, just doesn't really move the needle. 

 

I agree. I think Hughes realizes that and it was no coincidence he drafted a lot of size and grit this year. 

[Commandant]

52 minutes ago, WildTurkeyXX said:

Yup, and as it stands (including Arber) we have 3 players who bring that quality (legitimately). We probably need about 3 more. Which is why swapping one out, even for another of equal physical value, just doesn't really move the needle. 

 

I think we have more than 3.  Again its mentality 

 

You need one or two guys who can play the game and fight anyone in the league.  In terms of fight anyone thats Arber and Anderson, but the play of arber is debated.

 

But when i say mentality, im talking Jayden struble or Kaiden Guhle or Slafkovsky who may not fight the Oliver, or tom wilson types but will not back down if they have to fight a middleweight on the other team and will get themselves in the middle of scrums.  Guys like Bolduc also fit this mold and there are a few more.

 

And then when they get involved it brings everyone into the fight.  Dobes isnt backing down, Hutson isnt, caufield, suzuki, etc... not fighters and i dont want them fighting but they are in a gang mentality where everyone on the ice jumps into every scrum.  

 

And so you find guys who can play in a top 9/top6 role and play minutes and also fit paragraph 1 or paragraph 2 of this post.  Thats team toughness.

 

I fully believe when players see teammates standing up for each other, they do the same.  Doesnt matter if its arber or hutson, they get in the fight and it drags others in.  On the same side if there is a couple soft players who shy away, that can spread through the team.  So that has to be maintained with players acquired in free agency, trades, draft picks, etc...  get guys who have their teammates backs.

 

So this is what we talk about with Character and Compete and Heart and all those adjectives we love to use.

[Commandant]

33 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I agree it's not just one player and it's a team mentality but how often do you want guys like Hutson and Caulfield involved in scrums. 

 

I dont want them fighting but i dont want them shying away either.  Its a benefit to the whole team when the talented guys are in the middle of things.  Its scary but it creates the everybody has everybody else's back mentality that you need today.

 

Changed rules, faster player, deeper rosters, etc.. this has taken away from the Dave Semenko types in the league.  The Wilson, Probert, Oliver, Nilan, types who can be heavyweights and play the game will always be in the league and always be golden, but the Semenko, Brashear, goon types are being pushed out (heck i might argue there are only 3 or 4 left in the league).

 

So that gets supplemented by your entire team being willing to stick up for and fight for each other.  

[WildTurkeyXX]

It is mentality, but it's not only mentality. It's also a numbers game. Ghule, Anderson and Xhekaj are the only (truly) physically imposing players on this roster. I'm all for the little guys and the borderline guys having the dog mentality, but the number of actual monsters needs to increase. Caufield and Hutson getting involved is a bonus, but it can't be part of the physical foundation. With it without Arber, this is an area that needs to be addressed. Management seems to get it, but I needs to be implemented on the ice. 

[WildTurkeyXX]

And it's not about the fighting, or the scrums. It's about the ability to deliver consistent, physical punishment to the other teams. Between the whistles.

[Habs Fan in Edmonton]

15 minutes ago, WildTurkeyXX said:

It is mentality, but it's not only mentality. It's also a numbers game. Ghule, Anderson and Xhekaj are the only (truly) physically imposing players on this roster. I'm all for the little guys and the borderline guys having the dog mentality, but the number of actual monsters needs to increase. Caufield and Hutson getting involved is a bonus, but it can't be part of the physical foundation. With it without Arber, this is an area that needs to be addressed. Management seems to get it, but I needs to be implemented on the ice. 

 

I don't see Guhle as being physically imposing.  To his credit he tries to play a physical game but he needs to get stronger.  I love Anderson but he is also a UFA after this year.  How much to do pay a somewhat aging physical winger?  Habs would certainly miss what he brings. 

[Commandant]

I wasnt saying we dont need another player like Anderson.  Of course that is helpful.

 

I am however saying that a guy who cant be trusted to play important minutes is of limited value in adding team toughness.  If he isnt on the ice for key moments and with top players... that doesnt add the team toughness.

 

Arber can crush Hagel in a fight but Hagel adds more to the team toughness of Tampa cause he doesnt shy away from anything and is able to play with top players.  Heck, Slafkovsky is probably more important to the Habs team toughness than Arber is.

 

Its those guys who bring hutson and caufield's dog out.... its having the belief that others have their backs that let them get involved too.

 

Overall here is my position to sum it up.

 

If someone makes a good offer we can trade Arber Xhekaj and still improve team toughness by getting someone like a Matthew Knies, and yes that ship may have sailed, but that type of player for the top 6 or another defenceman with a physical presence even if they arent a heavyweight fighter, or another Anderson/Bolduc style winger even.  

 

Im not saying dont add toughness.  Im saying a middleweight who plays 15-20 minutes effectively and with top players on the ice for both teams is better than a super heavyweight who has to be sheltered.  Obviously the wilson/oliver type is best but they are unicorns.

[WildTurkeyXX]

And it's also not about players that can be dragged into it. That's great to have, players that can join in. But we need more players of whom the fight is just their natural mentality. Not the whole team, just a higher percentage of it than we currently have.

[WildTurkeyXX]

11 minutes ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

I don't see Guhle as being physically imposing.  To his credit he tries to play a physical game but he needs to get stronger

You may be right, but I figured he was close enough that I would give him some credit. He has a nastiness to him that just seems to come naturally to him, so I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

[WildTurkeyXX]

9 minutes ago, Commandant said:

I wasnt saying we dont need another player like Anderson.  Of course that is helpful.

 

I am however saying that a guy who cant be trusted to play important minutes is of limited value in adding team toughness.  If he isnt on the ice for key moments and with top players... that doesnt add the team toughness.

 

Arber can crush Hagel in a fight but Hagel adds more to the team toughness of Tampa cause he doesnt shy away from anything and is able to play with top players.  Heck, Slafkovsky is probably more important to the Habs team toughness than Arber is.

 

Its those guys who bring hutson and caufield's dog out.... its having the belief that others have their backs that let them get involved too.

 

Overall here is my position to sum it up.

 

If someone makes a good offer we can trade Arber Xhekaj and still improve team toughness by getting someone like a Matthew Knies, and yes that ship may have sailed, but that type of player for the top 6 or another defenceman with a physical presence even if they arent a heavyweight fighter, or another Anderson/Bolduc style winger even.  

 

Im not saying dont add toughness.  Im saying a middleweight who plays 15-20 minutes effectively and with top players on the ice for both teams is better than a super heavyweight who has to be sheltered.  Obviously the wilson/oliver type is best but they are unicorns.

I don't fully disagree, but I think I slightly do. I'm very interested to see how Arber looks with this new coach. I think that's key. This new coach is no doubt going to have a big affect on our defensive structure. We have an opportunity to see how Arber fairs in a different system, without having to watch it with another team. Personally, I think that makes it worth the wait. 

And besides, Arber would (likely) be more valuable at the deadline. So if we are going to move him, that might be the better timing. 

[GHT120]

5 minutes ago, WildTurkeyXX said:

This new coach is no doubt going to have a big affect on our defensive structure. We have an opportunity to see how Arber fairs in a different system, without having to watch it with another team.

Doesn't Robidas coach the defencemen ... I thought Lalonde would be involved more in the TEAM defensive structure

[WildTurkeyXX]

13 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Doesn't Robidas coach the defencemen ... I thought Lalonde would be involved more in the TEAM defensive structure

Yes, Robidas is the Defensive coach. But with Lalonde being the assistant coach (I think that's his title), and him being a defensive minded coach. One who has as much coach experience as he does, I would imagine he will have a very big role with defense as a whole. At least I hope so. Our systems were pretty tough to watch these past couple of seasons 

[WildTurkeyXX]

38 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

Doesn't Robidas coach the defencemen ... I thought Lalonde would be involved more in the TEAM defensive structure

I guess another way to put it is that the two are part and parcel. Unlike in Football, where offense and defense are two completely separate units. I'm no hockey coach, but I'd have to assume it would be tough to do anything with the overall team defense without being heavily involved in the defense.

[GHT120]

My point was more that Robidas works with the individual defencemen ... Lalonde will likely be more involved in the overall scheme in which Robidas' defence corps operates ... don't think Lalonde will be involved in directly coaching any of the defencemen ... Xhekaj's weaknesses will be the same in any system

[WildTurkeyXX]

8 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

My point was more that Robidas works with the individual defencemen ... Lalonde will likely be more involved in the overall scheme in which Robidas' defence corps operates ... don't think Lalonde will be involved in directly coaching any of the defencemen ... Xhekaj's weaknesses will be the same in any system

Ahh... Then we agree where Lalonde's role and involvement is concerned and I disagree with your conclusion.

My curiosity revolves around how Arber would fair in a different system. Some systems compliment players differently than others (and visa versa). 

I assume we will still operate in some sort of hybrid system, but I am curious to see how it's implemented. What situations do we lean into man vs zone. Is it the same as previous years? Do we spend more time in one vs the other? I don't know which suits Arber better, or if it will make any difference at all. That is what I'm curious to see. But no, I don't expect Lalonde to whisper into his ear and transform Arber into a whole different player..

[Commandant]

1 hour ago, WildTurkeyXX said:

I don't fully disagree, but I think I slightly do. I'm very interested to see how Arber looks with this new coach. I think that's key. This new coach is no doubt going to have a big affect on our defensive structure. We have an opportunity to see how Arber fairs in a different system, without having to watch it with another team. Personally, I think that makes it worth the wait. 

And besides, Arber would (likely) be more valuable at the deadline. So if we are going to move him, that might be the better timing. 

 

Robidas coaches the defencemen.

 

Lalonde may take over the PK, but Arber hasnt proven to be a good PK player at this point and i doubt that changes with the coaching.

[Commandant]

Arbers issues are with his skating though and I dont think Lalonde can fix that.

 

Like many bigger players he can have speed in a straight line when he gets the opportunity to get going but he is not the best at short stops and starts, quick changes in direction and other more quick twitch movements and this can get him beat in one on one situations.   Beyond that he needs to be disciplined and stay in position, not always chasing that big hit and getting burned as a result.

[WildTurkeyXX]

41 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Robidas coaches the defencemen.

 

Lalonde may take over the PK, but Arber hasnt proven to be a good PK player at this point and i doubt that changes with the coaching.

Agree to disagree. Personally I have a hard time believing that Lalonde (or any coach, especially one with actual coaching experience) would take an Assistant Coaching position (assuming I have his title correct) just to be limited to a special teams role, and a back seat to a coach of a lower position in the totem pole. But I could be wrong. Heck, I might not even be getting his title correctly. If I'm incorrect in that, that would change everything. I might just have the wrong understand of the authority hierarchy. In my field it's Manager - Assistant Manager - Shift Manager. Maybe it's different in hockey?

[WildTurkeyXX]

6 minutes ago, Commandant said:

Arbers issues are with his skating though and I dont think Lalonde can fix that.

 

Like many bigger players he can have speed in a straight line when he gets the opportunity to get going but he is not the best at short stops and starts, quick changes in direction and other more quick twitch movements and this can get him beat in one on one situations.   Beyond that he needs to be disciplined and stay in position, not always chasing that big hit and getting burned as a result.

So you don't think different systems suit different players, differently? I feel like I've had discussions on this forum regarding other players where I was on the other end of that. Where it was explained to me that a player of interest may look okay in their system, but wouldn't be a good fit with ours for whatever reason... Could've been a discussion with someone else, it's tough to keep track 

[Commandant]

I dont think the system will be that different.  Marty is still the head coach.  We may see tweaks from Lalonde but I dont see us reinventing the wheel.

 

I also think that Arber's deficiencies will be deficiencies in any system.  There is no system where he will be asked not to defend one on one, or to never handle the puck and look for a breakout pass.

[Commandant]

44 minutes ago, WildTurkeyXX said:

Agree to disagree. Personally I have a hard time believing that Lalonde (or any coach, especially one with actual coaching experience) would take an Assistant Coaching position (assuming I have his title correct) just to be limited to a special teams role, and a back seat to a coach of a lower position in the totem pole. But I could be wrong. Heck, I might not even be getting his title correctly. If I'm incorrect in that, that would change everything. I might just have the wrong understand of the authority hierarchy. In my field it's Manager - Assistant Manager - Shift Manager. Maybe it's different in hockey?

 

Never said he was limited to a special teams role. 

 

Letowski worked with the forwards and the PP with Marty.

 

Robidas had the defencemen and the PK.

 

With Letowski gone, and Lalonde the replacement, I assume he takes the 5v5 role with the forwards.

 

My assumption on the PK is because it struggled at times last year, and because he has had top PK units in his career including a top 10 one with a bad defensive team in the Leafs last year that it would be part of his role.

 

Robidas had the defencemen last year, and given what the team was 5v5 I dont see why that part would change.

[WildTurkeyXX]

5 minutes ago, Commandant said:

 

Never said he was limited to a special teams role. 

 

Letowski worked with the forwards and the PP with Marty.

 

Robidas had the defencemen and the PK.

 

With Letowski gone, and Lalonde the replacement, I assume he takes the 5v5 role with the forwards.

 

My assumption on the PK is because it struggled at times last year, and because he has had top PK units in his career including a top 10 one with a bad defensive team in the Leafs last year that it would be part of his role.

 

Robidas had the defencemen last year, and given what the team was 5v5 I dont see why that part would change.

Ahh, my apologies then for misunderstanding.

[DON]

I guess Canucks seems like good landing spot for Wright.

 

 

Shane Wright Prefers Trade To Canucks – Pro Hockey Rumors

 

Still, that could change relatively soon, as Ben Kuzma of The Province reported in an article that Wright prefers a trade to the Vancouver Canucks, and there is mutual interest from the Kraken’s northern rival.

[GHT120]

For those opposed to HuGo trading for Shane Wright
 

"The judge is out for all three of those things"