Permanent Rumour Thread

[CoRvInA]

Sign Plex NOW!

Agreed!!!!

[Fanpuck33]

Call Detroit, they may want a goalie and a centre.

I don't see Detroit being in the market for a goalie. Jimmy Howard is starting to come into his own and Osgood has shown he can still turn it on when it really matters. They also just spent a first round pick on a goalie a couple years ago.

[Chris]

I don't know, Biron has been brutal lately. But i agree Biron will be somewhere quickly uon Dipietro's return.

I'm just saying BG actually does have several good options to make the team better with the type of players Martin likes. I don't think he is there yet.

Pleks is fools gold IMO, playing for free agency out of his mind. I can see it now, if he resigns he immediately goes back to the little school efforts that he is use to. I could be wrong.

[CoRvInA]

I don't know..... After peace on earth, and wishing for the Copenhagen protocol to go full swing....I'm wishing for these Holiday wishes this Season:

1) Lecavalier still keeps sucking and not getting along with management Cap hit 7.7mil (10 mil a year for at least 5 more years)

2) Gomez slowly keeps getting better and starts producing "reaches a 50 point potential" Cap hit 7.35mil (8 mil for 3 years only)

3) our prospects values maintain or go up....

Thats all Im saying!!!! lol

[Habsy]

Is Corvina hinting at a Gomez for Lecavalier blockbuster?? Stamkos has shown he's the real deal. Maybe, just maybe Tampa looks at the length of Vinny's contract, and notices Gomez is not nearly as long.

[habs rule]

Is Corvina hinting at a Gomez for Lecavalier blockbuster?? Stamkos has shown he's the real deal. Maybe, just maybe Tampa looks at the length of Vinny's contract, and notices Gomez is not nearly as long.

Stop the insanity. We are not going to get lecav and if we did it is the chelios for savard trade all over again. we don't need a 77 million dollar contract. vinny is a great guy but he don't want to come to montreal, he has many ops to do it. let it go or as the beatles said let it be.

[Chris]

Yea, plus trading Gomez wouldn't be good for the players who just signed here. They all (except Spacek) said the came because of Gomez.

So 6 months later you move him. Not going to happen, Pleks is the guy on trasde watch, not Gomez.

[BTH]

well koistinen cleared re-entry waivers... I hope that means that Spacek will be ok to go on Thursday

Too bad. Had we not signed Bergeron, he would have been a good pick up.

[Wamsley01]

Why is it the wrong comparable? They are similar in their style of play. Fine, give Plex a 7 year deal and pay him more now and a little less in teh 6th and 7th years of the deal. Plex is only 27, by the time the deal ends, he'll be 34!

I still think we could sign him for 7 years. 5 million per year for the first 5 years and 2.5 million per year for the last 2 years. I would think this would be a very good deal for Plex.

It is the wrong comparable because Savard DIDN'T sign for $4.5M. He signed for $6.5M using a loophole.

The last 3 years of that deal are a mirage, they only exist for them to be bought out. Savard is also the

wrong comparable because he has been in the top 3 in assists for 5-6 years.

He is also signing his last contract, Plekanec will be signing his first big contract.

Never sign a guy to the value he produces in a contract year after a 39 point season. You may get burned

one to two times, but at the end of the day you will come out ahead. Think of it like pot odds in poker.

You make the play knowing that if you make the play 100 times, that you will come out ahead more often

than not. The history of guys having huge years in a contract year is large, but so is the history of those same

guys dropping back to their previous level. (Blake, Rolston etc).

If Pleks is looking for $5M plus, as tough as the decision is, you have to deal him at the deadline. You have to

put aside the emotion of the transaction and make shrewd hockey decisions.

[saskhab]

That's all fine and good, Wamsley, but you have to look at the totality of Plekanec's career to determine what the blip is, not just the past two years.

2005-06: 67 GP, 9+20=27 +4 (rookie, age 22/23)

2006-07: 81 GP, 20+27=47 +10

2007-08: 80 GP, 29+40=49 +15

2008-09: 80 GP, 20+19=39 -9

2009-10: 31 GP, 6+25=31 +6 (age 26/27)

Conclusion: been very durable, was progressing well but had a slide last year, is overproducing this year, but entirely in assists (his goal production is actually down).

Playoff history: played reasonably well as a rookie (4 assists in 6 games), played well in 2007-08 (9 points in 12 games), sucked last year (0 points in 3 games, -5). Generally speaking, no better or worse in the playoffs than in the regular season.

Throw in being the top PK forward on the team and any intangibles, the fact that he's just entering his best years right now, and make a judgement. Realize that Cammalleri was down in 2007-08 after a breathrough 2006-07, and rebounded with a career year in his contract year last year as well. This isn't an abnormal career path that Plekanec is on, we have a top player on our team who went through the same thing.

[Chris]

They also dreafted 2 pretty good centre prospects that could be NHL ready within 2-3 years. You can't limit your young talent in a cap era. I am also guessing that Pouliot could be a 2nd line centre if he pans out. Like it or not Gomez is a top 2 centre until his contract is up.

Pleks will get you a nice return.

They also signed a young (potentially good) young swede.

The logical choice is to move Pleks, not over pay him

I don't think anyone would argue he is playing his best hockey, unfortunately for him the habs retooled, used alot of money on UFA,s and will need probably 2 of those young centers to step in.

So i'll bet he is gone via trade.

[Wamsley01]

That's all fine and good, Wamsley, but you have to look at the totality of Plekanec's career to determine what the blip is, not just the past two years.

2005-06: 67 GP, 9+20=27 +4 (rookie, age 22/23)

2006-07: 81 GP, 20+27=47 +10

2007-08: 80 GP, 29+40=49 +15

2008-09: 80 GP, 20+19=39 -9

2009-10: 31 GP, 6+25=31 +6 (age 26/27)

Conclusion: been very durable, was progressing well but had a slide last year, is overproducing this year, but entirely in assists (his goal production is actually down).

Playoff history: played reasonably well as a rookie (4 assists in 6 games), played well in 2007-08 (9 points in 12 games), sucked last year (0 points in 3 games, -5). Generally speaking, no better or worse in the playoffs than in the regular season.

Throw in being the top PK forward on the team and any intangibles, the fact that he's just entering his best years right now, and make a judgement. Realize that Cammalleri was down in 2007-08 after a breathrough 2006-07, and rebounded with a career year in his contract year last year as well. This isn't an abnormal career path that Plekanec is on, we have a top player on our team who went through the same thing.

The big difference in your Cammalleri comparable being that Cammalleri was dominant at the NCAA level

had a 109 pt year in the AHL, followed by a solid 50 pt rookie season, then an 80 pt season on a Kings team

with essentially zero support then a down year, followed by another 80 pt campaign.

Plekanec never broke a PPG in the AHL, slowly progressed at the NHL level and had his career year playing

with Alex Kovalev in a year where he gave a shit, then fell off the map the next season. He has never averaged

close to a point per game as a pro, this is an abberration IMO, not an indication that he will morph into something

he has never been in 7 years as a North American pro.

I certainly don't look at their career arcs as similar, you may, I don't.

The cap age is all about slotting a players worth and steadfastly paying them that slot. Lamierello has done an

unbelievable job of this in New Jersey with his own players (not so much with UFAs), Holland has an individual

salary cap through Lidstrom and does not overpay individuals outside of their pay slot.

Looking at Plekanec's career arc, IMO his pay slot is in the $4M range. If he wants more than that, trade him.

Over the long haul in this exact same situation the Canadiens will come out ahead if they use this logic.

It is why Gainey should have offered a $3.5M - $4M deal to Pleks after he laid an egg last season. Gainey has

been burnt time and time again waiting for UFA seasons when salaries escalate the closer they get to the open

market. After 7 years in the system, Gainey should have figured out whether Plekanec was for real or not. I don't

understand why he steadfastly refuses to invest in his own farm on players he should know more about than anybody else.

What is it going to cost if he plays this one year RFA offer sheet with Price in his UFA season? When is he going to have

confidence in his work to invest in it long-term? This is moving down a road where Gainey has continually failed. It is like

watching Groundhog Day.

As a fan, it is a double edged sword. I want him to play better, but I also understand the ramifications of the impending

contract discussions. What does Gainey do in mid-February fighting for a playoff spot? Will he keep him trying to make the playoffs and then be forced to let him walk? Will he overpay him? Will he have the seeds to deal him at the deadline, essentially wiping out the shot at the playoffs? Why does he never cut these issues off before they occur? Does he lack foresight?

With Gainey's history, I fear this will not end well.

[Chris]

Well now BG has a system in place in Montreal and in Hamilton. A defensive,use your speed, puck controlling system. As you can see already by some moves, if the players don't fit that mold, they will be playing elsewhere. Most of the call ups have been solid.

BG is Price's biggest supporters, he isn't going anywhere.

I also think they had a real good draft last year, time will tell obviously.

Good points on NJ, Detroit.

[Habsfan]

It is the wrong comparable because Savard DIDN'T sign for $4.5M. He signed for $6.5M using a loophole.

The last 3 years of that deal are a mirage, they only exist for them to be bought out. Savard is also the

wrong comparable because he has been in the top 3 in assists for 5-6 years.

He is also signing his last contract, Plekanec will be signing his first big contract.

Never sign a guy to the value he produces in a contract year after a 39 point season. You may get burned

one to two times, but at the end of the day you will come out ahead. Think of it like pot odds in poker.

You make the play knowing that if you make the play 100 times, that you will come out ahead more often

than not. The history of guys having huge years in a contract year is large, but so is the history of those same

guys dropping back to their previous level. (Blake, Rolston etc).

If Pleks is looking for $5M plus, as tough as the decision is, you have to deal him at the deadline. You have to

put aside the emotion of the transaction and make shrewd hockey decisions.

Agreed. That's why i mentionned a 7 year deal with 2.5 million per year for the final 2 years. It averages out to 4.2 million$ per year, which I find to be reasonnable for a guy like Plex!

[rafikz]

Halak officially on the market, as per SPortsnet

[v-hab]

Agreed. That's why i mentionned a 7 year deal with 2.5 million per year for the final 2 years. It averages out to 4.2 million$ per year, which I find to be reasonnable for a guy like Plex!

I have often wondered why Gainey didn’t use this option of ‘front loading’ with years to bring down the cap. Last spring I ran a Idea past Brian as a way to keep some of the big guns only I went below the minimum. I still believe it might work for Plekanec this year. He is too valuable a player to lose and try to replace.

A 7 year $29.4 million might work, bring the average cap hit to $4.2 million per year. Starting in year three he has a tradable contract if things don't work out.

Salary

Year 1 $8 million

Year 2 $7 million

Year 3 $4 million

Year 4 $3.5 million

Year 5 $3.5 million

Year 6 $1.7 million

Year 7 $1.7 million

It all falls within the NHL and CBA rules.

[Chris]

I'm guessing BG doesn't want Pleks on his team that long. It's not like a hot 30 game streak warrants a multi year deal.

Although i agree he has been excellent in 30 games so far, his track record says THIS 30 GAME stretch is more abnormal.

I said it last year that know one returning, i'll go for more bold predictions, this team isn't done being redone. Pleks brings alot back.

They need a big centerman.

[Habitforming]

I have often wondered why Gainey didn’t use this option of ‘front loading’ with years to bring down the cap. Last spring I ran a Idea past Brian as a way to keep some of the big guns only I went below the minimum. I still believe it might work for Plekanec this year. He is too valuable a player to lose and try to replace.

A 7 year $29.4 million might work, bring the average cap hit to $4.2 million per year. Starting in year three he has a tradable contract if things don't work out.

Salary

Year 1 $8 million

Year 2 $7 million

Year 3 $4 million

Year 4 $3.5 million

Year 5 $3.5 million

Year 6 $1.7 million

Year 7 $1.7 million

It all falls within the NHL and CBA rules.

I kinda like this thought, but if the Plex of 08' returns, no one in the NHL today would trade anything for him until year 6 at the best case scenario.

[Fanpuck33]

The thing is, as I've mentioned before, is that front loaded contracts aren't the type of deals that young players take. Just look across the league at young (under 28 years old) guys who have already signed extensions this season - Rich Peverley, Milan Lucic, Cam Ward, Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane, Duncan Keith, Rick Nash, Antoine Vermette, Derick Brassard, Rusty Klesla, Loui Eriksson, Jonathan Quick, Phil Kessel. Not one has signed a front loaded deal. The guys who have signed such deals are players who will, more than likely, be retired before the end of their contract.

[Habsfan]

I'm guessing BG doesn't want Pleks on his team that long. It's not like a hot 30 game streak warrants a multi year deal.

Funny how everyone only remembers Plex's horrible 2008-2009 season, yet they forget that before 08-09 he had progressed in the RIGHT direction every year.

05-06 - 29pts in 69GP

06-07 - 47pts in 81GP (20 goals)

07-08 - 69pts in 81GP (29 goals)

08-09 - 39pts in 80GP (20 goals)

09-10 - 31pts in 32GP (6goals)

So, as I was saying, Plex had a decent progression. I think it's safe to say that 08-09 was a hickup...then again not a single player had a good year for the habs in 08-09. If there's something we should remember it's that Plex is good for 20 goals every year and that he isn't injury prone(average of 80GP per year).

[v-hab]

The thing is, as I've mentioned before, is that front loaded contracts aren't the type of deals that young players take. Just look across the league at young (under 28 years old) guys who have already signed extensions this season - Rich Peverley, Milan Lucic, Cam Ward, Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane, Duncan Keith, Rick Nash, Antoine Vermette, Derick Brassard, Rusty Klesla, Loui Eriksson, Jonathan Quick, Phil Kessel. Not one has signed a front loaded deal. The guys who have signed such deals are players who will, more than likely, be retired before the end of their contract.

I understand your point, just a real quick look might suggest differently, Front loaded contracts Toews, Kane, Savard, Heatly Lecavalier and Malone. The others that I left out are older than 30. and did not chech your list.

I don’t believe it has anything to do with age, players look are a number, how they get that number is of little concern and all the better if it is front loaded. This is a Cap management process where players assists management in keeping a better roster for the player to play in.

Presumption that Plekanec could have a bad season is speculation that can also be used in reverse ‘he could have better than great seasons and be worth more.

[alexstream]

The thing is, as I've mentioned before, is that front loaded contracts aren't the type of deals that young players take. Just look across the league at young (under 28 years old) guys who have already signed extensions this season - Rich Peverley, Milan Lucic, Cam Ward, Jonathan Toews, Patrick Kane, Duncan Keith, Rick Nash, Antoine Vermette, Derick Brassard, Rusty Klesla, Loui Eriksson, Jonathan Quick, Phil Kessel. Not one has signed a front loaded deal. The guys who have signed such deals are players who will, more than likely, be retired before the end of their contract.

this.

[alexstream]

I understand your point, just a real quick look might suggest differently, Front loaded contracts Toews, Kane, Savard, Heatly Lecavalier and Malone. The others that I left out are older than 30. and did not chech your list.

I don’t believe it has anything to do with age, players look are a number, how they get that number is of little concern and all the better if it is front loaded. This is a Cap management process where players assists management in keeping a better roster for the player to play in.

Presumption that Plekanec could have a bad season is speculation that can also be used in reverse ‘he could have better than great seasons and be worth more.

no. wrong. kane and toews are not frontloaded as per nhlnumbers.com

as for malone, yes it is front loaded, but beyond his value... everyone was shocked that a checker on a career year would get that much. It is now turning really good since he found some chemistry with Stamkos.

[v-hab]

no. wrong.

as for malone, yes it is front loaded, but beyond his value... everyone was shocked that a checker on a career year would get that much. It is now turning really good since he found some chemistry with Stamkos.

I know, I should have checked I was trying to do it from memory. I don't see how your argument is related to perceived value for any given team. TB wanted Malone and found a way to pay him. value can only be judged after the contract is complete.

[v-hab]

The real point at issue here is finding a way to resign him, When you look at the available UFA’s for 2010 that play centre in his price range. Very few names pop out as a possibility, the only one I could find is Mathew Lombardi , That is if he is if he is even available come july 1st. He does not have the complete skill set of Plekanec . Front loading may be the only way to keep him.