Zowpeb Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) Jebus...why don't they just package up Halak with D'Ago and, if necessary, some of prospects/SKost/picks to go out and pick up guys like Cogliano, O'Sullivan or Perron, Oshie...don't misunderstand, I'm not saying they'd get all 4 guys (I'm not even saying they'd get 2 of them really...just get something done). Those guys slide into the 2nd/3rd line RW or 3rd line C role better then anything we have. They balance our scoring and are cheap, quality, young players. Trading Halak + in a deal that helps both teams just makes sense. I hope Bob has EDM and STL on speed dial as the deadline approaches. Edited December 22, 2009 by Zowpeb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Minister Koivu Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Plekanec, Halak, A. Kostitsyn together would net us a solid return. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Blake was 34 when he had that career year. There was a hell of a lot more reason to be skeptical that he'd be a $4-$5m player going forward from that than Plekanec. Again, I point to Cammalleri's season last year after having a drop off in 2007-08. Cammalleri is clearly closer to the player he was in 2008-09 than the 2007-08 year. And I think Plekanec is closer to the player he is today than the player he was last year. So yes, be cautious with a new deal, but don't think it's incredibly risky to sign him to decent coin. But yeah, Carter > Plekanec. This shouldn't be up for discussion at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 To put it in perspective Tomas Plekanec @ 24 years old 47 pts in 81 games Jeff Carter @ 24 years old 84 pts in 82 games NHL points @ 24 years old Plekanec - 76pts in 150 games Carter - 216 pts in 307 games Spin it any way you want, but he has proven a hell of a lot more than Plekanec at the NHL level. Plekanec's off-season coincided with Carter's top year (which he doesn't seem likely to repeat). Comparing just their 08-09 seasons is useless. Apart from this season - and their rookie seasons where neither of them made much impact - Plekanec has outperformed Carter in each season. The career stats are interesting, but it's important to note that we're only half-way through Plekanec's best season. By the end of the year, the numbers should be quite close. Anyway, my point is that they BOTH only have ONE PPG season (although Plekanec's is incomplete) which they have yet to repeat and are therefore UNPROVEN as PPG players in the NHL. Either one COULD turn out to be consistent 80-point players, but neither of them has been that yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 BTH, age does matter when comparing, though. It'd be like comparing Carey Price's career stats through 2 1/2 years to a goalie who broke in at 23/24. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Plekanec's off-season coincided with Carter's top year (which he doesn't seem likely to repeat). Comparing just their 08-09 seasons is useless. Apart from this season - and their rookie seasons where neither of them made much impact - Plekanec has outperformed Carter in each season. The career stats are interesting, but it's important to note that we're only half-way through Plekanec's best season. By the end of the year, the numbers should be quite close. Anyway, my point is that they BOTH only have ONE PPG season (although Plekanec's is incomplete) which they have yet to repeat and are therefore UNPROVEN as PPG players in the NHL. Either one COULD turn out to be consistent 80-point players, but neither of them has been that yet. Carter is 3 years younger, that is HUGE! He bypassed the AHL, a league that Plekanec spent 3 full seasons and had his 84 pt campaign when Pleks was in his second season in the league. It is like comparing Carey Price to Marc Andre Fleury right now. At Price's age, Fleury was considered a bust. Now he is a Stanley Cup champion and a possible Olympian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redondo Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Plekanec, Halak, A. Kostitsyn together would net us a solid return. We complain that Gainey and CO are not developing the homegrown talent properly, and here are three guys we drafted/developed, each having a career year, and trending upwards. But I'm less concerned about the PR aspect of it, and more about the fact that each one of those guys, on his own, could arguably pull a LeClair. Guess it depends whom you get back, but that's a lot of talent going out the door, and I would at the very least keep A. Kost (understand the UFA/RFA/playing time implications with the other two, but there is no immediate incentive to trade Kosty). Agree on Carter > Plekanec, based on resumes to date. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I'd take Carter or Richards in a heart beat. I would do something like Pleks, Sk, Dman and either Carle or Weber. For Richards, Parent and one of there tough guys. I believe they have 3. lappiere, Cote and Carcillo. I watched some of the Philly game last night and there announcers said there is a problem in the locker room between Richards and Pronger and they are looking for a trade. If i'm BG i would be burning up the phone lines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 (edited) Blake was 34 when he had that career year. There was a hell of a lot more reason to be skeptical that he'd be a $4-$5m player going forward from that than Plekanec. Again, I point to Cammalleri's season last year after having a drop off in 2007-08. Cammalleri is clearly closer to the player he was in 2008-09 than the 2007-08 year. And I think Plekanec is closer to the player he is today than the player he was last year. So yes, be cautious with a new deal, but don't think it's incredibly risky to sign him to decent coin. But yeah, Carter > Plekanec. This shouldn't be up for discussion at all. The Blake comparison was just based on career year, you could use Rolston maybe? Either way, you get the point. Cammy was dominant in the NCAA, dominant in the AHL and had a PPG campaign under his belt at the NHL. Plekanec has NEVER had a PPG season. They are not comparable. BTH, age does matter when comparing, though. It'd be like comparing Carey Price's career stats through 2 1/2 years to a goalie who broke in at 23/24. Great minds think alike Edited December 22, 2009 by Wamsley01 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Richards and Pronger and they are looking for a trade. Pronger's wife? ... again? lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 No, i wasn't aware of that. It has something to do with Pronger being a captain and leader stepping on Richards toes or something. That's what the announcers said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 No, i wasn't aware of that. It has something to do with Pronger being a captain and leader stepping on Richards toes or something. That's what the announcers said. lol I was just referring to his time in Edmonton when his wife told him to get out of town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Maybe we should get bar's opinion so we know where you stand on this. Haha..I've been requested!!! I've been saying, too bad if players don't want to fight the rock! Grab a player and pummel him. I am so sick of these staged fights, what happened to the days where a 'goon' would grab a player who did something dirty and rough him up. I know I'm coming off as a raw meat eating, dumbass, but really I'm not saying he should pound his fist through the guys face but grab someone, they'll fight back, or they'll turtle, and the will not do what they did again. Take the penalty, I mean it's not like we don't take them anyway. Pump up the team, be physical, he cannot skate fast enough to do it with body checks, he HAS to do it with his fists. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chicoutimi Cucumber Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 It is called selling high. Do not overvalue an asset after a 30-35 game stretch. It is how Jason Blake ended up with a 5 year $4M per deal. Plekanec is 27 years old and has never averaged a PPG until his UFA season. NOBODY on this board was talking about him in the dominant sense 3 months ago and we have all seen him play for 4+ full seasons. Now all of a sudden people are not sure if they want to include him in a deal for Jeff Carter? Two and a half months ago if somebody offered this same deal, everyone would have universally backed it. Carter has been a PPG player at every level of hockey. He was a leader on a stacked World Junior team that was full of stars including Crosby. He went direct from junior to the AHL playoffs and produced 23 pts in 21 games at the age of 20 as the Phantoms won the Calder Cup. He then entered the NHL 3 motnhs later and improved every season until an 84 point breakout last year. This is a no-brainer. 100% There could be the opportunity here for one of those rare, franchise-building deals. Philly is desperate. This is a Cup year for them and they're falling apart. If Carter can be had from those fools, get him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I've been saying, too bad if players don't want to fight the rock! For a second there, I thought you were going to go with a WWE theme. Too bad if players don't want to fight The Rock. Grab a jabroni and pummel the monkey crap outta him! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 To put it in perspective Tomas Plekanec @ 24 years old 47 pts in 81 games Jeff Carter @ 24 years old 84 pts in 82 games NHL points @ 24 years old Plekanec - 76pts in 150 games Carter - 216 pts in 307 games Spin it any way you want, but he has proven a hell of a lot more than Plekanec at the NHL level. Some guys take longer to put it together. Look at Marc Savard. He bounced around wore out his welcome on a number of teams before he finally broke out in Atlanta. Pleks has always n been a hard worker but lacked confidence. Let's also not forget that he had two play with a basket case in kovy when he actually was given an oppertunity as a top 6 forward. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 BTH, age does matter when comparing, though. It'd be like comparing Carey Price's career stats through 2 1/2 years to a goalie who broke in at 23/24. Carter is 3 years younger, that is HUGE! He bypassed the AHL, a league that Plekanec spent 3 full seasons and had his 84 pt campaign when Pleks was in his second season in the league. It is like comparing Carey Price to Marc Andre Fleury right now. At Price's age, Fleury was considered a bust. Now he is a Stanley Cup champion and a possible Olympian. I know that Carter is the better, younger and safer player - I've already said that I would take the trade. All I'm saying is that Carter is looking like a player that could hit 90 points one year and be a good 2nd liner in another season. If Plekanec continues at this rate until the end of the season, he'll have to be considered something similar, I think. People will be unsure whether he's going to continue to put up 90 point seasons or whether he's going to even out as a 65 point guy. I was only responding to simonus who implied that he thought the downgrade was massive. I said that I could understand the reasoning from Philadelphia's perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bar Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 For a second there, I thought you were going to go with a WWE theme. Too bad if players don't want to fight The Rock. Grab a jabroni and pummel the monkey crap outta him! Do you smell what the Bar is serving!! Seriously though, does my post make sense? Not every fight has to be this emotionless, take gloves, helmet off, bow to your opponent, bow to the ref, honourfest, this isn't martial arts. He needs to play more on emotion, put the fear of the veggie head into them! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 bar, I am on board with that. I have been saying for years they need to be tougher, if one of your guys gets a shakey hit, take the other guy out so it doesn't happen again. O'Byrne went over and pushed a guy last night. Wow, that's tough. Florida went after 4 Flyers last night because of 1 hit that happened a month ago. The habs are currently as tough as my neices 10 year old soft ball team. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 It would be an impressive statement of financial commitment by the Molsons if they allowed Laraque to be waived and stashed in the minors in the service of icing a more competitive team and freeing up cap space on the big squad. I can't see another team taking on his salary (although maybe on re-entry?) so this is probably the only way to do it. I can't help but wonder if indeed Laraque's NMC extended into this season - I reported what I could confirm in the CBA FAQ thread with regards to his NTC, but I never did confirm for sure that his NMC expired after last season. If the NMC is still there, he can't be waived (simply put), which might explain why it hasn't happened yet. Health is also a factor, I don't think Laraque can pass a physical anymore, which means he can claim he's injured, nullifying any demotion attempt - and quash any buyout attempt in the offseason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Do you smell what the Bar is serving!! Seriously though, does my post make sense? Not every fight has to be this emotionless, take gloves, helmet off, bow to your opponent, bow to the ref, honourfest, this isn't martial arts. He needs to play more on emotion, put the fear of the veggie head into them! It does. They aren't samurai, I agree. Sometimes I wish he'd just start wailing on someone who's taken liberties as well. And I don't like fighting in the game. But until it goes, we might as well use it. Give me Nilan and Claude Lemieux anyday. And if yer serving scotch on the rocks, preferrably Macallan 12 yr, then I'm in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Something with Philly should also be noted: they don't have a 1st rounder this year. They dealt it to Anaheim for Pronger. So yeah, they'll be REALLY desperate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wamsley01 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Some guys take longer to put it together. Look at Marc Savard. He bounced around wore out his welcome on a number of teams before he finally broke out in Atlanta. Pleks has always n been a hard worker but lacked confidence. Let's also not forget that he had two play with a basket case in kovy when he actually was given an oppertunity as a top 6 forward. Marc Savard had 413 pts in 238 OHL games, he then put up 74 pts in 58 games in his AHL debut season at 20 years old. Marc Savard @ 24 years old 169 in 253 games Tomas Plekanec @ 24 years old 47 pts in 81 games Once again, a player who showed that he could be a prolific scorer at both levels before the NHL. Plekanec has NEVER produced a PPG, let alone the level that he is at this season. I call BS on this current production by Plekanec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
saskhab Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 But Wamsley, Tomas Plekanec DID NOT COME FROM the OHL or the NCAA. He came from the considerably stronger Extraliga, playing regular shifts against 30 year olds when he was 18. Europeans tend to mature later than North Americans as a result of this. Anyways, he's also been killing penalties since year 2 in the AHL (not sure about year 1 when he was stuck playing 3rd line on a ridiculously deep AHL squad), and has currently logged the 4th most minutes shorthanded in the NHL amongst forwards... while the PK unit he leads is 7th in the entire league. Tomas is becoming a TWO-way force. It's not just about his offensive comparables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeLassister Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Tomas is becoming a TWO-way force. It's not just about his offensive comparables. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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