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I just updated my ESPN account and this is the nonsense within the rumour.

So, like I thought. They are using Jack Todd's rant as their basis for the rumour.

4 days ago Halak was on the outs because of 8 goals on 30 shots, now the "GROWING BUZZ" is he is the goalie they will keep.

Nothing like looking into the salary situation or using a quote from a GM or upper management.

I was going to ask if anyone had read Todd's latest article (just read it).

He should be writing for a tabloid. Instead of commenting on their play, he praises and attacks athletes personally.

It's strange that so few media sources seem to consider the option that Montreal will keep both goalies. As a Habs fan, and therefore a sort of "specialist" on Montreal, this seems like the most probable outcome, and I think most other Habs fans/"specialists" would agree. All the experts act as if Gauthier is being forced to make a franchise-altering decision - Price or Halak?

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non-canadians are pretty much exempt from taxes in Quebec. they pay minimal taxes.

Whoops! My bad. So the Habs overpay for no financial reason. But don't these players often establish residential ties in the province, and doesn't that make you subject to taxes? Certainly there is a difference between 'non-residents' and those with 'residential ties' for tax purposes. But I don't know what the difference is in financial terms. I'm so confused. Any tax experts out there?

As for the Price rumours, thanks for the clarification Wamsley. The idea that any organization would decide to trade a player based on one game is ridiculous. (Right, Rejean Houle?) If Gauthier moves either Halak or Price it had better be on the basis of an in-depth evaluation of the player's long-term potential with the Habs - a significant qualifier, that last part - and on the basis of the return. No other logic makes any sense. Game Four, or even this entire playoff series, really should factor only tangentially into the decision.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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I was going to ask if anyone had read Todd's latest article (just read it).

He should be writing for a tabloid. Instead of commenting on their play, he praises and attacks athletes personally.

It's strange that so few media sources seem to consider the option that Montreal will keep both goalies. As a Habs fan, and therefore a sort of "specialist" on Montreal, this seems like the most probable outcome, and I think most other Habs fans/"specialists" would agree. All the experts act as if Gauthier is being forced to make a franchise-altering decision - Price or Halak?

From what we know, Plex and Moore are UFA's, Pouliot, Sergei, Price, Halak and Lapierre are all RFA's. We don't have the money to pay them all.

Unless you make other moves, you'll have to let some of them go.

Personnaly, I don't consider moving Hamrlik/Spacek for a cheapest salary a most probable outcome than moving one of our goalie.

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Whoops! My bad. So the Habs overpay for no financial reason. But don't these players often establish residential ties in the province, and doesn't that make you subject to taxes? Certainly there is a difference between 'non-residents' and those with 'residential ties' for tax purposes. But I don't know what the difference is in financial terms. I'm so confused. Any tax experts out there?

some european players are not landed immigrants, they're simply on working visas. if they become landed immigrants(moving permanently into the country) then they'll be subject to regular taxes.

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From what we know, Plex and Moore are UFA's, Pouliot, Sergei, Price, Halak and Lapierre are all RFA's. We don't have the money to pay them all.

Unless you make other moves, you'll have to let some of them go.

Personnaly, I don't consider moving Hamrlik/Spacek for a cheapest salary a most probable outcome than moving one of our goalie.

If this is about $$, then Halak is more likely to go than Price.

It makes no sense to re-up Halak at $3.5 per (using Rinne's contract as a comparable), then

pay a backup 600-750K when Price will probably make no more than $1.5M.

So if you keep Halak it makes more sense to pay the extra $1M insurance on Price.

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From what we know, Plex and Moore are UFA's, Pouliot, Sergei, Price, Halak and Lapierre are all RFA's. We don't have the money to pay them all.

Unless you make other moves, you'll have to let some of them go.

Personnaly, I don't consider moving Hamrlik/Spacek for a cheapest salary a most probable outcome than moving one of our goalie.

If we can't get a thing for Hamrlik, I would consider buying him out in order to keep everyone else (Subban would take his place on the blueline for cheap). It wouldn't be a perfect team, but we'll always be struggling with the cap as long as we have Gomez on our team.

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What people forget is that Montreal always has to 'overpay' due to the tax situation. Quebecers' income is taxed provincially at about 25% (in addition to the federal tax). This is almost 10% more than the other provinces. So in practice you need to add about $500 000 to a $5 million salary just to compete with, say, the Vancouver Canucks, let alone the much lower taxed American and Albertan markets.

If as a general rule, you subtract $500 000 from most of our higher-end salaries, you see that the Habs are not really outside of market range. Adjusted for tax, 5 years at 27.5 mil amounts to paying Pleks $5 mil per. That's about as good as you can expect.

It's market value, but I certainly don't see Plekanec having anywhere near a repeat of this season which means next season, he'll be overpaid relative to market value. The day they agreed on the 1 year deal was the day they all but agreed to part ways at the end of the season; the team has been assembled within that structure (going and getting the 3 forwards signed longterm). Giving Plekanec that type of money would all but cripple this team moving forward, there'd be little room to improve other than from within at least until Markov/Hamrlik expire next season (and I'm sure Markov's going to want a raise himself).

If we can't get a thing for Hamrlik, I would consider buying him out in order to keep everyone else (Subban would take his place on the blueline for cheap). It wouldn't be a perfect team, but we'll always be struggling with the cap as long as we have Gomez on our team.

Right now, I think Hamrlik being bought out is a foregone conclusion at this point, especially if they give Plekanec that contract. They simply can't afford to have 6 players making $5 million or more (another reason why I've said all year they need to let Plekanec go and replace him with a lesser C). The talent next year might take a bit of a hit (again, I say a bit as I expect Plekanec to drop to the 50-60 point range), but at least they'd have a little bit of flexibility to improve. Even if they let Plekanec go, I think Hamrlik's performance this playoff may have dictated his fate.

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It's market value, but I certainly don't see Plekanec having anywhere near a repeat of this season which means next season, he'll be overpaid relative to market value. The day they agreed on the 1 year deal was the day they all but agreed to part ways at the end of the season; the team has been assembled within that structure (going and getting the 3 forwards signed longterm). Giving Plekanec that type of money would all but cripple this team moving forward, there'd be little room to improve other than from within at least until Markov/Hamrlik expire next season (and I'm sure Markov's going to want a raise himself).

Right now, I think Hamrlik being bought out is a foregone conclusion at this point, especially if they give Plekanec that contract. They simply can't afford to have 6 players making $5 million or more (another reason why I've said all year they need to let Plekanec go and replace him with a lesser C). The talent next year might take a bit of a hit (again, I say a bit as I expect Plekanec to drop to the 50-60 point range), but at least they'd have a little bit of flexibility to improve. Even if they let Plekanec go, I think Hamrlik's performance this playoff may have dictated his fate.

I don't understand why people think Plekanec is such a fluke. This is his second 70 point season in 3 years. He's scored 20+ goals for 4 seasons in a row now and has been a solid defensive player throughout the past couple of years as well.

He had one "awful" season in which he scored 20 goals and was a fantastic PKer - in other words, a really solid third line C - and apart from that he's steadily improved into a 70 point two-way C.

Even his bad playoff rep needs to be forgotten, now that he scored in each of our first three games and has been a key player for us in the series.

I've been defending Plekanec for a couple of years now. For some reason, not many people seem to have much confidence in him.

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I don't understand why people think Plekanec is such a fluke. This is his second 70 point season in 3 years. He's scored 20+ goals for 4 seasons in a row now and has been a solid defensive player throughout the past couple of years as well.

He had one "awful" season in which he scored 20 goals and was a fantastic PKer - in other words, a really solid third line C - and apart from that he's steadily improved into a 70 point two-way C.

Even his bad playoff rep needs to be forgotten, now that he scored in each of our first three games and has been a key player for us in the series.

I've been defending Plekanec for a couple of years now. For some reason, not many people seem to have much confidence in him.

I have confidence in him, just not to the tune of $5+ million a season, particularly when signing that deal will put the Habs in bad enough of a cap situation that will make this year look like nothing. He's a 20 goal scorer, is that worth $5+ million, defensive ability notwithstanding? Not a chance.

I'd also set aside the playoff comment considering Washington was the one team Plekanec scored on in every game this year. If we're playing another team, say, Pittsburgh, I don't see him putting up those numbers.

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The most difficult thing in the cap area is assessing a players value and not paying more than that value.

When you pay over grade, then you get into trouble. The only thing that can save you from overpaying is

an abundance of young assets who outperform their salary slot.

Burke capped himself out in Anaheim, but was saved by Perry/Getzlaf.

So with Gomez already overpaid they cannot afford another mistake with Plekanec.

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Fatendresse's contract talks going slowly. Maybe we can pick him up UFA. LMAO LMAO LMAO When can get that big power forward we've always wanted.

Oh gawd. I kill myself sometimes.

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Fatendresse's contract talks going slowly. Maybe we can pick him up UFA. LMAO LMAO LMAO When can get that big power forward we've always wanted.

Oh gawd. I kill myself sometimes.

Well, depending on what he's asking, I really don't see that as self-evidently ridiculous - only egos prevent it from being seen as useful scenario. I wouldn't mind having Pouliot AND Lats on the team. Two cheap talented young players, that's OK by me.

Wamsley, what would YOU do with Pleks? Is $5 mil/per a huge mistake, do you think? And as BTH points out, do we really have much of an alternative?

Until we get a new wave of young players up here, we are stuck toughing out cap headaches. That's why replacing Hammer with Subban is a no-brainer; it's what you have to do in a cap system, ruthlessly dump overpaid has-beens and take a chance on the cheap young talent. It's also why Gainey's go-for-broke trading approach in 2008 hurts so much now; not only did it NOT yield the deep playoff run we wanted, but it deprived us of some of the draft picks you need to build on in a cap system.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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I have confidence in him, just not to the tune of $5+ million a season, particularly when signing that deal will put the Habs in bad enough of a cap situation that will make this year look like nothing. He's a 20 goal scorer, is that worth $5+ million, defensive ability notwithstanding? Not a chance.

I'd also set aside the playoff comment considering Washington was the one team Plekanec scored on in every game this year. If we're playing another team, say, Pittsburgh, I don't see him putting up those numbers.

20-25 goals, 40-50 assists + PK skills = a 5 million dollar player to me.

Elite players make 6+ million a year. Lower-end first line players make 4.5-5.5 million. That would be where I slot Plekanec. 5.5 million is a bit more than I'd like to give but I don't think Maxwell or a cheaper C is a realistic option. I'd much rather keep our leading scorer and buy out Hamrlik.

The most difficult thing in the cap area is assessing a players value and not paying more than that value.

When you pay over grade, then you get into trouble. The only thing that can save you from overpaying is

an abundance of young assets who outperform their salary slot.

Burke capped himself out in Anaheim, but was saved by Perry/Getzlaf.

So with Gomez already overpaid they cannot afford another mistake with Plekanec.

But what other option do we have? I don't think a Gomez/$2M player combo down the middle would get us into the playoffs.

Hey, Brian, do you know where I can find a list of impending UFA?

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20-25 goals, 40-50 assists + PK skills = a 5 million dollar player to me.

Elite players make 6+ million a year. Lower-end first line players make 4.5-5.5 million. That would be where I slot Plekanec. 5.5 million is a bit more than I'd like to give but I don't think Maxwell or a cheaper C is a realistic option. I'd much rather keep our leading scorer and buy out Hamrlik.

Eventually, the market will correct itself and the lower end first liners will see their salaries drop. I expect it to happen this offseason actually, not with Plekanec though. The more you lock in at the higher salaries now, the worse off you'll be later on. I think you can get a 40 point C for about what Plekanec is making now; put him with Cammalleri and see that C's point total raise into the 50's, well worth the salary savings in my opinion.

I look at it this way - is the current core now capable of taking the team deep into the playoffs? I'm not so sure. In that case, why pay a big sum to keep that core? Plekanec is a UFA, and thus the easiest to move from that core. It's not a shot at Plekanec but more a look at the situation - couple that with the cap issues and that's why I've said all along that I hope he moves on.

Hey, Brian, do you know where I can find a list of impending UFA?

A plug for one of the sites I use for cap info (I've dealt a lot with the person who runs it) - http://www.capgeek.com/ufa_finder.php. The list just went up last week actually.

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Well, depending on what he's asking, I really don't see that as self-evidently ridiculous - only egos prevent it from being seen as useful scenario. I wouldn't mind having Pouliot AND Lats on the team. Two cheap talented young players, that's OK by me.

Wamsley, what would YOU do with Pleks? Is $5 mil/per a huge mistake, do you think? And as BTH points out, do we really have much of an alternative?

Until we get a new wave of young players up here, we are stuck toughing out cap headaches. That's why replacing Hammer with Subban is a no-brainer; it's what you have to do in a cap system, ruthlessly dump overpaid has-beens and take a chance on the cheap young talent. It's also why Gainey's go-for-broke trading approach in 2008 hurts so much now; not only did it NOT yield the deep playoff run we wanted, but it deprived us of some of the draft picks you need to build on in a cap system.

Well.

I was actually laughing because I think it'd be a good pick-up; as in another guy that we traded that we could use.

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Well, depending on what he's asking, I really don't see that as self-evidently ridiculous - only egos prevent it from being seen as useful scenario. I wouldn't mind having Pouliot AND Lats on the team. Two cheap talented young players, that's OK by me.

Wamsley, what would YOU do with Pleks? Is $5 mil/per a huge mistake, do you think? And as BTH points out, do we really have much of an alternative?

Until we get a new wave of young players up here, we are stuck toughing out cap headaches. That's why replacing Hammer with Subban is a no-brainer; it's what you have to do in a cap system, ruthlessly dump overpaid has-beens and take a chance on the cheap young talent. It's also why Gainey's go-for-broke trading approach in 2008 hurts so much now; not only did it NOT yield the deep playoff run we wanted, but it deprived us of some of the draft picks you need to build on in a cap system.

It would depend on what the team goal is for 2011. This is one of the real problems of the Gomez contract

and why Gainey should not have taken it on. When coupled with Pleks $5M you are looking at $12M in your

top two centers and 120-130 points.

The problem is that without Pleks you are looking at a non-playoff team. The way Gainey structured the team,

there will be no blow up scenario. So then they have zero choice but to sign him.

Gauthier has to cut the fat this summer. Hamrlik, Spacek, Kostitsyn's maybe Halak because of his raise.

Even though Halak has outplayed Price this season, Price's salary + his lack of return because of an average

season will likely not return what the Canadiens would want for him. So to compensate for the big contracts

they already have, they may have to try to run with $2M on their goaltenders.

Gainey left Gauthier a mess IMO.

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Eventually, the market will correct itself and the lower end first liners will see their salaries drop. I expect it to happen this offseason actually, not with Plekanec though. The more you lock in at the higher salaries now, the worse off you'll be later on. I think you can get a 40 point C for about what Plekanec is making now; put him with Cammalleri and see that C's point total raise into the 50's, well worth the salary savings in my opinion.

I look at it this way - is the current core now capable of taking the team deep into the playoffs? I'm not so sure. In that case, why pay a big sum to keep that core? Plekanec is a UFA, and thus the easiest to move from that core. It's not a shot at Plekanec but more a look at the situation - couple that with the cap issues and that's why I've said all along that I hope he moves on.

A plug for one of the sites I use for cap info (I've dealt a lot with the person who runs it) - http://www.capgeek.com/ufa_finder.php. The list just went up last week actually.

From this list, I see Cullen, Koivu, Lombardi, Morrison and maybe Jokinen (probably too expensive) as possible Plekanec replacements. I don't think a Gomez-Cullen combo is going anywhere...

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From this list, I see Cullen, Koivu, Lombardi, Morrison and maybe Jokinen (probably too expensive) as possible Plekanec replacements. I don't think a Gomez-Cullen combo is going anywhere...

Cammalleri can play C, as can Pouliot. Who says the new Cammalleri line can't be ___ - Cammalleri - A. Kostitsyn? Opens up a lot more opportunities.

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Cammalleri can play C, as can Pouliot. Who says the new Cammalleri line can't be ___ - Cammalleri - A. Kostitsyn? Opens up a lot more opportunities.

Yeah, but Cammy is a winger and wants to be a winger. So much of his game is built on ripping that lethal shot from one knee, usually from the wing - it'd be much harder for him to be fully effective as a C. I'm sure he could take one for the team in the short term, but I doubt that he'll be happy with this as a long-term fix. (Remember, Calgary went at got Jokinen rather than use Cammy as C). I'd love it if it could be made work, but making Cammy unhappy ain't the answer; that has a whiff of killing the golden goose about it.

It's going to be fascinating to see what Gauthier does this summer. One thing's for sure: he will have to be both ruthless and possessed of steel cojones.

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Yeah, but Cammy is a winger and wants to be a winger. So much of his game is built on ripping that lethal shot from one knee, usually from the wing - it'd be much harder for him to be fully effective as a C. I'm sure he could take one for the team in the short term, but I doubt that he'll be happy with this as a long-term fix. (Remember, Calgary went at got Jokinen rather than use Cammy as C). I'd love it if it could be made work, but making Cammy unhappy ain't the answer; that has a whiff of killing the golden goose about it.

That's all I'm really thinking of, short-term (1 year). With a lot of the D expiring in 2010-11, then they'll have the space to go after a replacement when there's more and better options on the market.

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Yeah, but Cammy is a winger and wants to be a winger. So much of his game is built on ripping that lethal shot from one knee, usually from the wing - it'd be much harder for him to be fully effective as a C. I'm sure he could take one for the team in the short term, but I doubt that he'll be happy with this as a long-term fix. (Remember, Calgary went at got Jokinen rather than use Cammy as C). I'd love it if it could be made work, but making Cammy unhappy ain't the answer; that has a whiff of killing the golden goose about it.

It's going to be fascinating to see what Gauthier does this summer. One thing's for sure: he will have to be both ruthless and possessed of steel cojones.

And you can bet that, no matter what he does, he'll be wrong and vilified.

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Jokinen is probably going to the KHL. No NHL team will pay him the money he's been used to making with his reputaiton.

Lombardi is the only realisitic comparable to Plekanec, and we don't know if he'll hit UFA. Best to stick with what we know.

But yeah, if $5m is what you pay marginal first liners, we'll have four of them with Plekanec signed.

It's tough to know what the market will do. In a year, it's possible we're looking at a $3m+ bump in the salary cap again.

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Jokinen is probably going to the KHL. No NHL team will pay him the money he's been used to making with his reputaiton.

Lombardi is the only realisitic comparable to Plekanec, and we don't know if he'll hit UFA. Best to stick with what we know.

But yeah, if $5m is what you pay marginal first liners, we'll have four of them with Plekanec signed.

It's tough to know what the market will do. In a year, it's possible we're looking at a $3m+ bump in the salary cap again.

How in a gate driven league do 22 teams suffer a decrease in attendance from 2009,

3 teams break even and 5 increase their attendance with an overall loss of 603,000 from 2009

yet increase the revenues so much that they can bump the cap by +3M?

I had 3-4 friends go to Phoenix, Miami and Tampa over the march break and pick up

a pair in Tampa and Miami less than 10 rows from the ice for $20 each and in Phoenix

a pair 2 rows from the ice went for $80 each.

The US economy is in shambles and the NHL has a revenue increase? This cannot be explained

away by an increased CDN $ alone.

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How in a gate driven league do 22 teams suffer a decrease in attendance from 2009,

3 teams break even and 5 increase their attendance with an overall loss of 603,000 from 2009

yet increase the revenues so much that they can bump the cap by +3M?

I had 3-4 friends go to Phoenix, Miami and Tampa over the march break and pick up

a pair in Tampa and Miami less than 10 rows from the ice for $20 each and in Phoenix

a pair 2 rows from the ice went for $80 each.

The US economy is in shambles and the NHL has a revenue increase? This cannot be explained

away by an increased CDN $ alone.

I'm talking next year. This year, the cap is expected to increase by $900,000.

Phoenix, Miami, and Tampa are not the revenue drivers of the NHL anyways. If the NHL drops off in NYC, DC, Philly, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Chicago, Boston, LA, Dallas (possible), and San Jose then there are issues. It's expected there will be decent increases in revenue in Colorado and Phoenix next year (Phoenix couldn't have been any lower, they had a season ticket base around 4000). Couple that with a Canadian dollar expected to float around or above parity for the entirety of the season (again, not guaranteed) and the cap probably will increase next year by more than it has in the past.

Unless there are dropoffs in already strong markets. The NHL doesn't lose revenue if crappy markets remain crappy. The NHL gains revenue if good markets increase prices and don't see drop offs in attendance (hello likely 4 of 6 Canadian markets, if not Ottawa as well; plus several US markets).

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I'm talking next year. This year, the cap is expected to increase by $900,000.

Phoenix, Miami, and Tampa are not the revenue drivers of the NHL anyways. If the NHL drops off in NYC, DC, Philly, Pittsburgh, Detroit, Chicago, Boston, LA, Dallas (possible), and San Jose then there are issues. It's expected there will be decent increases in revenue in Colorado and Phoenix next year (Phoenix couldn't have been any lower, they had a season ticket base around 4000). Couple that with a Canadian dollar expected to float around or above parity for the entirety of the season (again, not guaranteed) and the cap probably will increase next year by more than it has in the past.

Unless there are dropoffs in already strong markets. The NHL doesn't lose revenue if crappy markets remain crappy. The NHL gains revenue if good markets increase prices and don't see drop offs in attendance (hello likely 4 of 6 Canadian markets, if not Ottawa as well; plus several US markets).

I wonder how much a rising CDN dollar helped their bottom line.

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