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But Chicoutimi Cucumber, if you understand that the pattern is set with Kostitsyn and that his flashes of brilliance are temporary, why do you still get frustrated?

Because players like that are frustrating!!! :crazy:

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I dunno, we seem to be talking past each other. One guy accuses me of wanting to keep Gomez and dump AK. If anything, I would argue for just the reverse. Wamsley points out that Gomer's 33-goal season was a fluke. But if you re-read the post where I bring it up, you'll find that that was precisely my point ('freak' was my adjective of choice): I can't see Kosty ever performing at an elite level except by some freak circumstance, as happened with Gomez and Gio that season in Jersey. Because he does have raw talent, it could happen some year. But it will not happen regularly.

Now Wamsley, you point out that Kostitsyn has had OK numbers under unpromising circumstances this season. Which is fine, but what was his excuse in 08 and 09, under a different system? Also, what is the point of defending his production as comparable to Cammalleri's, while simultaneously saying we're crazy if we expect Kostitsyn to produce like a top-3 forward? I agree that Kostitsyn is not and probably never will be a top-3 forward. (I do expect Cammy to be one, which is why he has been a disappointment this season. But then again, unlike Kosty, Cammy stepped up for us when it counted last season/playoff, and he has years of near-elite production under his belt. That buys him the benefit of some doubt).

So if I agree that Kosty is not and likely will never be a top-3 forward, why am I somewhat grumpy about Kostitsyn? Is it because I expect him to produce like the high draft pick he was? No. It's because, offensively, he's a tease. Yes, he's got 15 points in 20 games. He also had 6 points in the preceding 25 games. Right there is Kostitysn in a nutshell.

You can say, 'well, I accept that he will be an offensive nonentity for 2/3 of every season, and I'll take the bad with the good.' I respect that, especially considering his modest cap hit, although the frustration of enduring his prolonged slumps shouldn't be minimized. What does NOT make sense is to simultaneously make excuses, as though he *could* be an 80-point guy if only he had just the right linemates, never got injured, had more PP time, etc., etc.. Either he's a #6 forward or he isn't.

What he really is, if you ask me, is a guy who plays like a top-3 forward for maybe 20-25 games/year, and then plays like a third liner the rest of the season ('good at even strength' etc.). It's that dichotomoy that makes him fundamentally frustrating. And it's naive to expect that pattern to change. In this sense, Wamsley's right - the difference is that I refuse to overlook the aggravation involved in players of this profile. That's all.

His 2008 Numbers were pretty solid. Remember, 2008 was essentially his rookie season. He had been up for a cup of coffee in 2006 and got a small run in 2007, but 08 was his first season.

He matched Higgins/Koivu's numbers in less ice time. He likely received softer minutes in his rookie season allowing him greater statistical success. In 2009 his numbers dipped but so did every other significant player on the team. Plekanec had a brutal follow up to his 69 point break out season in 2009.

I compared his numbers to Cammalleri's to show you that the elite offensive guys on this team are not producing this season. None of them are. So I don't see any sense in singling him out over inconsistent production. If you have accepted the player he is, I don't understand the frustration. He is a top 6 forward, no more, no less. He is not underachieving, he is a solid forward who if placed with elite offensive players could produce better than he is but is very adaptable to any system. He is an under appreciated player, a player who is missed when he is gone.

The expectation of his high draft choice is what acts as a lightning rod for AK. I don't care about his flashes, I don't care about his inconsistent scoring. He is a valuable member of the team and I have accepted his shortcomings and appreciate what he does right. He is playing to the level he is paid as well. To me that should be enough for people to leave him alone.

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I wonder if Kostitsyn would be getting all these defenders if he weren't presently in one of his 'hot' periods? :huh:

In answer to Wamsley's question, I suppose it can go either way. You can just accept him for what he is and be happy that he could be worse. Or you can be annoyed by the perennial tease he represents. I have no problem accepting players' limitations. I love Gill for what he brings and accept what he doesn't; I respect Gio for what he brings rather than griping that he's not a PPG guy; I loved Koivu even though he would slump for 1/4 of every season because it was impossible to demand more from him; I enjoyed Gomez until this season because his elite playmaking was so sweet and it's absurd expect him to score 30 goals. However, I generally DO get annoyed by players who are chronically unable to get the most out of what seem to be their natural gifts on a regular basis. Zednik, Malakhov, Richer, Kovalev (although he got a pass from me because he was so damned fun), Zubrus, now Pouliot - I've seen quite a few of these guys over the years. Kosty is more in that mould.

You can contrast Kosty to a guy like Benoit Brunet. People may not remember this, but Brunet used to go on hot streaks where he would light it up offensively. Then he'd revert back to normal type. When he'd go on one of these little runs, it was like a gift from the heavens - kind of like Metropolit's productive last season with us, or Darche this year - because no one ever pegged Brunet as a guy with real offensive gifts. But because you look at Kostitsyn's strength on his skates, his robustness, and his absolutely lethal shot, his ability to dominate certain shifts - there's a tendency to be disappointed that he is unwilling or unable to put it together more reliably.

And I think that's an understandable, reasonable response to a player who is a top-3 guy for 1/3 of every season and a bottom-6er the rest of the year. Classifying him as a 'second liner' finesses that basic problem. Something in his head seems to stop him from putting it together consistently. Knowing what a difference he *could* make, that aggravates. If you had a girlfriend who was capable of being a knockout, but spent most of her time hanging around in sweatpants, flip-flops and uncombed hair, you'd probably find that a bit disappointing too - no?

Anyway: I hope I'm wrong and that he puts it all together and becomes either the first-liner or the reliable 2nd-liner that his skill set (except his hockey sense) seems to imply. Go Kosty go!! :lol:

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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I wonder if Kostitsyn would be getting all these defenders if he weren't presently in one of his 'hot' periods? :huh:

In answer to Wamsley's question, I suppose it can go either way. You can just accept him for what he is and be happy that he could be worse. Or you can be annoyed by the perennial tease he represents. I have no problem accepting players' limitations. I love Gill for what he brings and accept what he doesn't; I respect Gio for what he brings rather than griping that he's not a PPG guy; I loved Koivu even though he would slump for 1/4 of every season because it was impossible to demand more from him; I enjoyed Gomez until this season because his elite playmaking was so sweet and it's absurd expect him to score 30 goals. However, I generally DO get annoyed by players who are chronically unable to get the most out of what seem to be their natural gifts on a regular basis. Zednik, Malakhov, Richer, Kovalev (although he got a pass from me because he was so damned fun), Zubrus, now Pouliot - I've seen quite a few of these guys over the years. Kosty is more in that mould.

You can contrast Kosty to a guy like Benoit Brunet. People may not remember this, but Brunet used to go on hot streaks where he would light it up offensively. Then he'd revert back to normal type. When he'd go on one of these little runs, it was like a gift from the heavens - kind of like Metropolit's productive last season with us, or Darche this year - because no one ever pegged Brunet as a guy with real offensive gifts. But because you look at Kostitsyn's strength on his skates, his robustness, and his absolutely lethal shot, his ability to dominate certain shifts - there's a tendency to be disappointed that he is unwilling or unable to put it together more reliably.

And I think that's an understandable, reasonable response to a player who is a top-3 guy for 1/3 of every season and a bottom-6er the rest of the year. Classifying him as a 'second liner' finesses that basic problem. Something in his head seems to stop him from putting it together consistently. Knowing what a difference he *could* make, that aggravates. If you had a girlfriend who was capable of being a knockout, but spent most of her time hanging around in sweatpants, flip-flops and uncombed hair, you'd probably find that a bit disappointing too - no?

Anyway: I hope I'm wrong and that he puts it all together and becomes either the first-liner or the reliable 2nd-liner that his skill set (except his hockey sense) seems to imply. Go Kosty go!! :lol:

I would have a problem with AK46 if he didn't contribute when he wasn't scoring, but he does. He is a solid even strength player, can play physical and defend.

Kovalev not scoring is a player doing nothing. Same with Richer, so I understand the frustration with those guys (although Richer under Burns and on the Devils was a more responsible player).

That is why I don't have a problem with him.

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I wonder if Kostitsyn would be getting all these defenders if he weren't presently in one of his 'hot' periods? :huh:

I defended him for 2 seasons now. I once used this sentence as my Facebook status : "If you hate Andrei Kostitsyn, just don't mention it after I passed the 5 pints level. We'll clearly get into a fight." biggrin.gif

And, talking about arguing and geting into fights, I don't know if this has anything to do with "loving" some players, but, in real life, I almost never get annoyed or angry over someone's act or what he says. It totally takes waaaay more for me to get pissed at someone than pretty much everyone I know, be it family, friends or fellow workers.

Maybe that's why I tend to be more indulgent towards Habs players, especially my favorites. AK can make 2-3 little mistakes, if he scores a goal, it's all forgiven. Same applied for Malakhov back in the days, he was clearly my favourite. I almost taged a Habs jersey with 38-Malakhov last summer... went very close. I tend to get pissed at big mistakes though. Like when Darche litteraly gave the other team a goal last post-season and ruined a game. I was still mad at him for most of this season...

I would have a problem with AK46 if he didn't contribute when he wasn't scoring, but he does. He is a solid even strength player, can play physical and defend.

Kovalev not scoring is a player doing nothing. Same with Richer, so I understand the frustration with those guys (although Richer under Burns and on the Devils was a more responsible player).

That is why I don't have a problem with him.

+1

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I defended him for 2 seasons now. I once used this sentence as my Facebook status : "If you hate Andrei Kostitsyn, just don't mention it after I passed the 5 pints level. We'll clearly get into a fight." biggrin.gif

And, talking about arguing and geting into fights, I don't know if this has anything to do with "loving" some players, but, in real life, I almost never get annoyed or angry over someone's act or what he says. It totally takes waaaay more for me to get pissed at someone than pretty much everyone I know, be it family, friends or fellow workers.

Maybe that's why I tend to be more indulgent towards Habs players, especially my favorites. AK can make 2-3 little mistakes, if he scores a goal, it's all forgiven. Same applied for Malakhov back in the days, he was clearly my favourite. I almost taged a Habs jersey with 38-Malakhov last summer... went very close. I tend to get pissed at big mistakes though. Like when Darche litteraly gave the other team a goal last post-season and ruined a game. I was still mad at him for most of this season...

+1

Damn we are exactly the same when it comes to the Habs I am very cool calm and patient for everything, but diss my Habs and i get very defensive, and your mistake tracking with players is also pretty much the way I see it.

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Every team has a player like Kostitsyn. A streaky player. These players steal games. The problem in this situation is Montreal doesn't have the 3 or 4 consistent players to make Kostitsyn acceptable to be streaky. If you have 3 or 4 consistent point producers they can keep games close for players like Kostitsyn to make a difference. This year even the consistent players are streaky. Games are won and lost if they are hot together or not. Best example I can think of is March 20th against Minnesota. Montreal with 8-1, next 3 games they can't buy a goal. One game hot together, next 3 games everyone gets cold.

Kostitsyn would be alot more valuable if Montreal had at least 1 consistent line to stabilize their offense. Remember '07-'08 when Plekanec, Kovalev and Kostitsyn were producing consistently? Ryder and Higgins weren't consistent but won 7 games between them. Seven games is a big jump in the standings.

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Damn we are exactly the same when it comes to the Habs I am very cool calm and patient for everything, but diss my Habs and i get very defensive, and your mistake tracking with players is also pretty much the way I see it.

The reality is that no matter what you say, unless you are gushing Habs, somebody will take offense on these boards. I prefer a more defining approach which will seeth accuracy more than hope. All of this is about prospective and what we need to soothe are fandom.

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Every time I see a new post here, I keep hoping there's a rumour about the Habs going after some unsigned prospect. One of these days we'll get one hopefully... :)

Berger may come available shortly. If your looking for someone to step in and play meaningful minutes in the Boston series, you will be disappointed. I surmise that your comment is about giving the Dogs a shot in the arm. I think you will get more value, if you are talking about add-ons, if you wait till after the draft.

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Berger may come available shortly. If your looking for someone to step in and play meaningful minutes in the Boston series, you will be disappointed. I surmise that your comment is about giving the Dogs a shot in the arm. I think you will get more value, if you are talking about add-ons, if you wait till after the draft.

I'm talking about potential guys for the Bulldogs; the Habs generally sign 1-2 undrafted guys per year at this time and are in on bidding wars for more than a few UFA's from the Q every year. That's the type of rumour I'm looking to hear, who is being pursued, who, if anyone aside from Berger, could the Habs land?

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Something that pisses me off is how AK46 received yet again another major blow in his attempt to "establish" himself as a contributor. If he comes back and dissapear from the scoresheet, I bet he will still get called inconsistent even if pretty much every player that get back in action after an injury during the playoffs need two or three games to catch the others in terms of momentum/tempo/level.

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Something that pisses me off is how AK46 received yet again another major blow in his attempt to "establish" himself as a contributor. If he comes back and dissapear from the scoresheet, I bet he will still get called inconsistent even if pretty much every player that get back in action after an injury during the playoffs need two or three games to catch the others in terms of momentum/tempo/level.

Umm, I think you mean InKostitsynt... happy.gif

But you're right, people do love to hate on AK. I can't wait to have him back.

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Smoley hokes, an actual rumour: The Habs have reportedly offered a 2 year deal to G Aaron Dell, who has spent the past two seasons at the University of North Dakota. UND is also where Kristo and Cichy play. His stats are pretty good for a first year NCAA starter, 30-7-2 with a .924 SV% and 1.79 GAA.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=123469

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Smoley hokes, an actual rumour: The Habs have reportedly offered a 2 year deal to G Aaron Dell, who has spent the past two seasons at the University of North Dakota. UND is also where Kristo and Cichy play. His stats are pretty good for a first year NCAA starter, 30-7-2 with a .924 SV% and 1.79 GAA.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=123469

Could be a late bloomer, but I'd be more comfortable to see how he did after one more NCAA year, post Kristo and Frattin when they aren't as obviously the best team in the country. Only had one year of starting at Jr. A and one year of starting at NCAA level.

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Could be a late bloomer, but I'd be more comfortable to see how he did after one more NCAA year, post Kristo and Frattin when they aren't as obviously the best team in the country. Only had one year of starting at Jr. A and one year of starting at NCAA level.

Frattin won't be back obviously but all signs point to Kristo returning. Otherwise, he'd be in Hamilton right now. It's a longshot for sure given his relative lack of experience. It is, however, nice to see them targeting someone other than seniors still, get them signed before the crazy bidding war like they were able to do with Trotter and tried to do with Tyler Bozak.

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Well, the Habs may have offered him a deal but it appears it has been rejected.

Like you referenced, they kicked the tires on guys like Trotter and Bozak the summer before they actually signed with a NHL team. This might give them a leg up if nothing else. Good decision by him, IMO.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I assume that the exit interviews have been done, spawning the exit interview with the media yesterday. Therefore there should be a plan in place going forward. One of the criticisms of past administrations, was not signing players that were in the plan going forward, before they gained market leverage. Let's see if the trend continues.

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No link but it appears G Karri Ramo will stay in the KHL next season and not come over with the Habs; he's close to signing what's believed to be a 1-year extension. Not too happy with this one, I figured he'd at least be an upgrade over Auld though there are other UFA goalies on the market at least.

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The Ramo deal is done, a 2 year pact that is one of the most lucrative in the KHL's brief history. He knew he wasn't going to get a shot with Price in Montreal so he is staying overseas.

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The Ramo deal is done, a 2 year pact that is one of the most lucrative in the KHL's brief history. He knew he wasn't going to get a shot with Price in Montreal so he is staying overseas.

So we keep his rights regardless of how long he stays overseas?

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