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Ok- I can't see him being penciled in for montreal unless the don't bring back pouliot and I really think the need to.

I'd like to see a line of pouliot-Eller-desharnais

Having Trotter on the 4th line with Moen/darche is a waste and I'd like see White play everyday next year. So with Moen/darche/white/pyatt and a ufa centre or fro

Someone from Hamilton - where would trotter fit for the type of role he could succeed in?

Throwing in the Jagr rumour would mean moving down AK46 to the third line with Desharnais and Eller - I REALLY DON'T want to see Desharnais as a centre or any lower then the third line and I definitely don't want to see Eller any lower then the third line.

This is why I really hope that they move Moen - white is a cheaper, younger and more physical replacement. Also why I'm still HOPING they demote Gomez and get his cap hit of the books.

On D, nice to hear Weber is resigning, but I also REALLY hope they find a way to bring back both Markov and Wiz and dump Spacek. If PG can find a way to do that, we'd have the best defense we had since the late 80's/early 90's.

Hear hear. I am so tired of hearing about 'our hands being tied' by the cap, blahblahblahblah. I know I go on about this, but geez, Boston, Vancouver, Chicago, San Jose, Philly - ALL these teams sign the frigging players that will make them contenders and worry about the cap later. We have all summer to get under the cap. Unless Wiz's demands are astronomical, sign him. Him plus Markov makes us contenders.

Even if you have to bury Spacek in the minors, you can make the case to Molson that Wiz/Markov/Subban/Gorges/Emelin/Gill/Weber is possibly THE best defence corps in hockey and that such a corps is likely to make you millions in extra playoff revenue. I've had enough of being 'a good team with an outside chance.' It's time to get the eye of the tiger and make it happen.

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Well, obviously he'd be acquired to play center.

The PK trade will never make sense.  You can keep Weber and price together until they are 50.  That is not going to change the fact that it was a horrible trade and a colossal mistake:  we lost the tr

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Even if you have to bury Spacek in the minors...

...which still costs the same against the cap as if he were playing for the Habs. It's a 35+ contract.

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Hear hear. I am so tired of hearing about 'our hands being tied' by the cap, blahblahblahblah. I know I go on about this, but geez, Boston, Vancouver, Chicago, San Jose, Philly - ALL these teams sign the frigging players that will make them contenders and worry about the cap later. We have all summer to get under the cap. Unless Wiz's demands are astronomical, sign him. Him plus Markov makes us contenders.

Even if you have to bury Spacek in the minors, you can make the case to Molson that Wiz/Markov/Subban/Gorges/Emelin/Gill/Weber is possibly THE best defence corps in hockey and that such a corps is likely to make you millions in extra playoff revenue. I've had enough of being 'a good team with an outside chance.' It's time to get the eye of the tiger and make it happen.

Either I may not be clear on the CBA, or you I don't think you get it. From what I understand, Spacek CANNOT be buried in the minors AND have his cap hit removed - this the concern I raised when Gainey signed him 3 years ago when he was over 35. From what I understand, for players over 35, we are stuck with the cap hit, unless they go on LTR, or we trade him. Brian - can you clarify?

The teams you mention, all have more then enough firepower up front. We don't. That is the issue. I think our forward group is as good as Boston's, the issue is that they are a group that plays dirty and is allowed to get away with it, which is an advantage to them. Unlike those other teams, we don't have anyone who has a track record of being a 70-80-90-100 point guy.

I've been saying since before the playoffs - sign Wiz, sign markov, and then in the summer sign a big centre like Laich AND get our young core committed long-term. But at the end of the day, we have to be creative on how we get rid of Spacek - Which is again something i've been saying since last year - I have no doubt we can move him by packaging a 3rd/4th round pick and Spacek for another team t's 5/6th pick. If we target a team that needs to get to the floor and is looking for a veteran presence, I have no doubt we can move him. Question, is given on how we have constantly been turning to Spacek - do you see that happening???

I do think we need to improve the forward core. But where do you make room. I'd love for the habs take a flyer on a one year deal for Jagr (which means moving AK46 down the depth chart). I DON"T want to give up on Pouliot yet. I want to ensure we have Desharnais, Eller, Ak46 all playing with OFFENSIVE players, where they are put into a position of success. Now we probably can add Trotter to the mix, there's also a chance that Palushaj may have a chance next year. But really, what kind of numbers are these guys going to play with.

The only way we can make room for some of this young guys and HAVE the cap room to lock up our D is getting rid of GOmez (only option is burying him in the minors), Spacek. I also would like to get rid of Moen, not really interested in brining back Pyatt AND Darche. Since we already have Darche, lets get a player similar to Pyatt, who actually adds some physicality.

Issue is it looks like management is intent on keeping Gomez for at least one more year and JM seems to really like Spacek and Moen. Getting rid of them alone would save $12.2M of the books and give us all kinds of flexibility to put together a contender next year.

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Either I may not be clear on the CBA, or you I don't think you get it. From what I understand, Spacek CANNOT be buried in the minors AND have his cap hit removed - this the concern I raised when Gainey signed him 3 years ago when he was over 35. From what I understand, for players over 35, we are stuck with the cap hit, unless they go on LTR, or we trade him. Brian - can you clarify?

As Trizz noted, the Habs are more or less stuck with his cap hit (less a token $100,000) if he's in the AHL.

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come on guys Wiz is gone and tell me how signing him gets us 40 to 50 goals a year? we were the lowest scoring playoff team in the NHL. do you think some more scoring MIGHT be a good thing? WE NEED SCORING! defense we got already. WIZ IS GONE QUIT DREAMING IN TECH.

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OK, OK, in the heat of my passionate defence of my position, I slipped back into the 'bury Spacek' fallacy. I DO know better but for some reason keep forgetting that (especially when typing late at night). My bad. I'm embarassed, but my wider point stands: DO WHAT IT TAKES and stop using the cap as an argument for not trying. That's what the powerhouse franchises do. Whether Gomez or Spacek or (less probably) Moen or whoever are the obstacle is a point you have to decide upon after you sign Wiz and Markov and have a better grasp of how much you have to trim.

It's true that if he somehow manage to dump Gomez we are in a position to sign Wiz AND significantly bolster ourselves at FW. At the risk of contradicting myself, though, it's one thing for me to say 'make Wiz happen,' quite another to say 'get rid of every questionable contract on the team and bring in 4-5 new guys who are better than the guys we now have.' More to the point, I see success coming for this team from the back end out. Wiz-Markov-Subban constitute an elite corps of scoring defencemen. That will drive offence as much or more as any addition to the top-6 up front. Having those three guys, supplemented by Weber, stands to give us THE best transition game east of Vancouver. Add to that the proven Gill-Gorges shutdown duo AND markov and PK's two-way skills and we retain our suffocating defence. So that's what I'd focus on.

habs29's position ultimately seems to me to be that this team is simply built on the wrong model (speed, skill). I can see the logic in that view, especially after watching Vancouver flame out; but I think the jury's still out given our recent playoff performances. Guys like Cammy and Gio thrive on the extra intensity of the playoffs. But maybe more importantly, I don't think the answer is to abandon the entire model. Then we just end up with a confused team that isn't especially good at anything. Better to accept our identity as a plucky, speedy team built around suffocating D, ferocious will to win, great netminding and a sharp counter-attack. Add an elite ingredient - Wiz - to that foundation. Hope that Patches, Desharnais and Eller continue to progress, such that they can provide you with that secondary threat up front that's so vital in the playoffs (the signs are promising here - Desharnais and Eller both had impacts in this year's playoffs). And if you can't trade him, pray to the good Lord that Gomez finally buys into the team system and plays like he can. If, after all that, you can add a big, hard-nosed top-9 forward to the mix, so much the better.

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Who would you pick up to score 40 goals of the available players?

my point was not that we could pick up a 40 goal scorer but that we need another 40 to 50 goals a year. That may come from 2 guys or 3 guys or 5 guys I don't care, we need more goals and wiz is not going to provide that at a reasonable rate. :habslogo:

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OK, OK, in the heat of my passionate defence of my position, I slipped back into the 'bury Spacek' fallacy. I DO know better but for some reason keep forgetting that (especially when typing late at night). My bad. I'm embarassed, but my wider point stands: DO WHAT IT TAKES and stop using the cap as an argument for not trying. That's what the powerhouse franchises do. Whether Gomez or Spacek or (less probably) Moen or whoever are the obstacle is a point you have to decide upon after you sign Wiz and Markov and have a better grasp of how much you have to trim.

It's true that if he somehow manage to dump Gomez we are in a position to sign Wiz AND significantly bolster ourselves at FW. At the risk of contradicting myself, though, it's one thing for me to say 'make Wiz happen,' quite another to say 'get rid of every questionable contract on the team and bring in 4-5 new guys who are better than the guys we now have.' More to the point, I see success coming for this team from the back end out. Wiz-Markov-Subban constitute an elite corps of scoring defencemen. That will drive offence as much or more as any addition to the top-6 up front. Having those three guys, supplemented by Weber, stands to give us THE best transition game east of Vancouver. Add to that the proven Gill-Gorges shutdown duo AND markov and PK's two-way skills and we retain our suffocating defence. So that's what I'd focus on.

habs29's position ultimately seems to me to be that this team is simply built on the wrong model (speed, skill). I can see the logic in that view, especially after watching Vancouver flame out; but I think the jury's still out given our recent playoff performances. Guys like Cammy and Gio thrive on the extra intensity of the playoffs. But maybe more importantly, I don't think the answer is to abandon the entire model. Then we just end up with a confused team that isn't especially good at anything. Better to accept our identity as a plucky, speedy team built around suffocating D, ferocious will to win, great netminding and a sharp counter-attack. Add an elite ingredient - Wiz - to that foundation. Hope that Patches, Desharnais and Eller continue to progress, such that they can provide you with that secondary threat up front that's so vital in the playoffs (the signs are promising here - Desharnais and Eller both had impacts in this year's playoffs). And if you can't trade him, pray to the good Lord that Gomez finally buys into the team system and plays like he can. If, after all that, you can add a big, hard-nosed top-9 forward to the mix, so much the better.

I have NEVER, EVER said that. WHere are you getting this from???????? The speed & style montreal canadiens team of the 70's were my favourite team growing up. To me that is what makes hockey the game i Iove. The issue I have is that JM style does't allow them to exploit their strength and we don't have the toughness to complement the speed. This is NOT a team that should be sitting back on a 1 or 2 goal lead. They are built to attack, not sit around trapping.

What also is lacking is we don't have a Larry Robinson, Lapointe, Savard, who were also tough, relatively big physical defensemen as well as highly skilled defensemen who could support the transition game. They were supported by guys like Langway who were tough physical defencemen. In the late 80's we had Green, Robinson, Ludwig and a young Chelios and Kurvers and a guy with a canon in Gingras (who when he hit the net was a good threat).

I have never said abandon the speed & skill - that to me is hockey, but we need to have the toughness to go with it. We need to add size to go with that speed, because the way the game is officiated - particularly in the playoffs, the advantage goes to the Boston's and the Philly's.

I have been very vocal since february, about bringing back a strong transition supporting D and want Markov, Wiz, Subban, Weber to be the lead core of that. Having Gill and Gorges as shut down pair is great, but I still think we need a Dman other then Subban who can actually be physical - hopefully Emelin can fill that role. That is why I have been saying I don't want Hamrlik and Spacek to be back.

Up front, for our speed to work, we can't have a Desharnais, eller, Ak46, Pouliot wasted playing with the likes of Darche, Halpern or Moen's. Let the offensive guys play with guys that can support them and for god's sake, have a good mix of size on the lines.

Play Desharnais on the wing with the bigger Eller and desharnais. Keep AK46 with Pleks and Cammy. The big question, is WHO DO YOU MOVE TO MAKE IT WORK CAPWISE???? there are two clear answers, Gomez and Spacek. The other guy who IMO doesn't add the tougness needed is Moen. He is a big 4th line guy, who is soft and doesn't use his size (that's the same issue I have with Gill). Aside from those three, who do you propose to move??? Your saying make it happen, but HOW DO YOU PROPOSE TO DO IT???? I have been wanting to dump Gomez for the past year and half, because he is the most logical choice to move to address our weak areas. Who else do you want to move???

IMO its been absurd to have had so many people wanting to move AK46 for the past couple of years, when he has been relatively consistent and has improved his overall game, yet want to keep Gomez another chance.

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Well, sorry for putting words in your mouth. Re-reading your posts more carefully, it sounds like we don't disagree on much. We both want Wiz re-signed above all. Who we need to move depends on Wiz's contract. If it puts us $1-2 mil over the cap, you hardly need to destroy the roster. You target Spacek and Moen, that'd be fine with me, and, I think, do-able for a GM with enough determination - although Moen brings some physicality.

What I'm really worried about is not quibbling with you. Rather it's the thought that the Habs are just going to be too complacent, saying 'the cap ties our hands and we just have to hope Markov stays healthy' etc., etc.. I could be under-estimating PG. But I greatly fear he is going to add bits around the edges instead of being aggressive with cap management. Like Wamsley, I believe we have a window and that one or two bold strokes will put us there. Emelin and Jagr are nice moves but nothing compared to re-signing Wiz.

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my point was not that we could pick up a 40 goal scorer but that we need another 40 to 50 goals a year. That may come from 2 guys or 3 guys or 5 guys I don't care, we need more goals and wiz is not going to provide that at a reasonable rate. :habslogo:

Wiz may not provide the 40-50 goals, but having two defense pairs that can support the tranistion game, should easily add 40 goals.

IMO, if JM uses his lines and D effectively, we should be able to get the following production:

AK46 (min 25 goals) - Pleks (min 25 goals) - Cammy (min 35 goals)

MaxPac (30 goals) - Laich (15 goals) - Gionta (30 goals)

Desharnais (15 goals) - Eller (15 goals) - Pouliot (15 goals)

White (8 goals) - Palushaj/4th line centre (6 Goals) - Darche (6 goals)

Subban (15 goals) - Markov (14 goals)

Wiz (10 goals) - Yemelin (3 goals)

Gorges (2 goals) - Weber (8 goals)

Gill (0 goals) - Note IMO, Gill by half way through the year should be platooning with Weber as the seventh D and be given mainly PK time and not be playing a regular shift - that of course is assuming that Yemelin is able to transiation effectively as a regular.

Total goals is 277. Last year they scored 216 - more then the 40-50 you were looking for. Frankly, I think they can even score more then the goals I've listed, IF THEY ARE ALLOWED to use their speed.

The lineup listed of course means dumping Gomez, Spacek and Moen to free up the cap space.

Last year their were two issues. First JM tied the hands of his offensive guys by playing them with Halpern, Darche and Moen. The offensive kids from Hamilton, as well as Pouliot and Eller were also playing with scrubs.

The other big issue last year, was they could never seem to get the damn puck out of their end and would make lousy first passes and be running around like chickens with their heads cut off trying to get the puck out of their own end. To me having Markov, Subban and Wiz able to support the transition game will go a long way. I also think having Weber get another year under his belt, will also add a 4th guy fro the back end to boost the offense.

I also would not want to pencil in Palushaj or anyone else from Hamilton for the 4th line centre spot. I'd much rather have a BIG, face-off specialist come in and let the kids from hamiton prove they belong. Lastly, I'd be all over trying to get Jagr for 1 year over having Gomez around for another year. In that case, I wouldn't mind seeing the following as a trial on the fist two lines:

Gionta-Cammy-MaxPac

Ak46-Pleks-Jagr

I'll also add that having a third line with guys with offensive potential like Eller, Desharnais and Pouliot, I don't see any reason why Pouliot can't score over 20 goals, Eller just needs to start having pucks go in to get his confidence up and I really think Desharnais can put up a solid 50-60 points on the wing if he has a couple of bigger guys with SKILL and SIZE. But playing any of these guys with the likes of Darche or Moen is a waste and that is one of my number one complaints of the JM's handling of players.

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Well, sorry for putting words in your mouth. Re-reading your posts more carefully, it sounds like we don't disagree on much. We both want Wiz re-signed above all. Who we need to move depends on Wiz's contract. If it puts us $1-2 mil over the cap, you hardly need to destroy the roster. You target Spacek and Moen, that'd be fine with me, and, I think, do-able for a GM with enough determination - although Moen brings some physicality.

What I'm really worried about is not quibbling with you. Rather it's the thought that the Habs are just going to be too complacent, saying 'the cap ties our hands and we just have to hope Markov stays healthy' etc., etc.. I could be under-estimating PG. But I greatly fear he is going to add bits around the edges instead of being aggressive with cap management. Like Wamsley, I believe we have a window and that one or two bold strokes will put us there. Emelin and Jagr are nice moves but nothing compared to re-signing Wiz.

I disagree about Moen bringing some physicality. I think he brings size - but like Gill, doesn't use it as much as he should. Most games, it's been Ak46 and Pouliot who were are most physical players. Issue was that like MOST goal scorers they are streaky and need to drive to the net harder.

I totally agree about the complacency. The habs management just seems to want to play things safe, make safe trades, keep safe chip it out, trapping type players and over-rely or over-play veteran guys like Spacek, gill and hammer over young guys like Subban and Weber.

I thinks it was a joke when toward the end of the year, people were praising JM for Subban's development. Subban play improved when the habs defense was decimated by the losses of Markov, Gorges and spacek and JM had no choice to play Subban more. Even then, I can't believe how often Subban was kept of that PP over Hamrlik and Spacek.

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I disagree about Moen bringing some physicality. I think he brings size - but like Gill, doesn't use it as much as he should. Most games, it's been Ak46 and Pouliot who were are most physical players. Issue was that like MOST goal scorers they are streaky and need to drive to the net harder.

I totally agree about the complacency. The habs management just seems to want to play things safe, make safe trades, keep safe chip it out, trapping type players and over-rely or over-play veteran guys like Spacek, gill and hammer over young guys like Subban and Weber.

I thinks it was a joke when toward the end of the year, people were praising JM for Subban's development. Subban play improved when the habs defense was decimated by the losses of Markov, Gorges and spacek and JM had no choice to play Subban more. Even then, I can't believe how often Subban was kept of that PP over Hamrlik and Spacek.

I dunno, I think PG has made some bold moves. Trading Halak for Eller was hugely controversial and risky and all of his trade additions have been solid fits. When did Gainey ever bring in a player like Wisniewski mid-season and at such a decent price? (The closest was Schneider.) It might not have much to do with the GMs but Gauthier succeeded in signing Emelin... something Gainey failed at like 5 times.

Of course they want to make safe trades - every team's management does. The defensive system shouldn't be blamed on Gauthier, it isn't him that signed Hammer or Spacek and it wasn't his choice to play them over Weber.

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Wiz may not provide the 40-50 goals, but having two defense pairs that can support the tranistion game, should easily add 40 goals.

IMO, if JM uses his lines and D effectively, we should be able to get the following production:

AK46 (min 25 goals) - Pleks (min 25 goals) - Cammy (min 35 goals)

MaxPac (30 goals) - Laich (15 goals) - Gionta (30 goals)

Desharnais (15 goals) - Eller (15 goals) - Pouliot (15 goals)

White (8 goals) - Palushaj/4th line centre (6 Goals) - Darche (6 goals)

Subban (15 goals) - Markov (14 goals)

Wiz (10 goals) - Yemelin (3 goals)

Gorges (2 goals) - Weber (8 goals)

Gill (0 goals) - Note IMO, Gill by half way through the year should be platooning with Weber as the seventh D and be given mainly PK time and not be playing a regular shift - that of course is assuming that Yemelin is able to transiation effectively as a regular.

Lol... a little bit too optimistic?

Anyways, the cap is going up by about 5 million this year, which thankfully gives us some room to maneuver. With the extra cash, maybe we could resign Wiz or bring in another top 6er.

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Lol... a little bit too optimistic?

Anyways, the cap is going up by about 5 million this year, which thankfully gives us some room to maneuver. With the extra cash, maybe we could resign Wiz or bring in another top 6er.

Not really. the veterans listed have track record of similar numbers. Cammy had a bad year - last year before he was injured he was on track for 35.

MaxPac showed this year he has the ability to be a 30+ goal guy - whether he can do that over an entire season is his next test.

I don't think 15 goals is a stretch for either Pouliot or Desharnais and Subban already had 14 this year. Eller showed in the playoffs that he is ready to take the next step. I don't see why any of these guys can't develop into 20 goal guys - as long as they aren;t playing with the Darche/Pyatt/Moen's of the world.

To me the big issue is how JM uses his players and who he plays them with. These guys all have good offensive ability and most have great speed. I just hope the coaching staff puts them in a position to succeed.

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my point was not that we could pick up a 40 goal scorer but that we need another 40 to 50 goals a year. That may come from 2 guys or 3 guys or 5 guys I don't care, we need more goals and wiz is not going to provide that at a reasonable rate. :habslogo:

40 goals can be made up in a season without considerable upgrades. Look at the Bruins.

2010 - 206 goals

2011 - 246 goals

Horton didn't bridge that gap. Horton provided 26, but Sturm had 22 last season.

Lucic went from 8 goals to 30. Marchand provided 21 rookie goals. The improvement came from within the same core.

There is no reason the Canadiens can't get bounce back seasons from Gomez and Gionta. There is nothing saying that Pacioretty can't continue what he was doing, etc etc.

The point that CC is making is why not be an elite defensive team? The Bruins didn't win the Cup on their offensive prowess. History will paint this team differently like it always does, but the Bruins won the Cup in 25 games, tied for the most in history. They won three game sevens, the most in the history of the game. They had fortune on their side and THAT is the new NHL.

You only get a limited window today. There is no sustained powerhouses. Even the Wings have only won 2 titles in the last 12 seasons and they have a good team EVERY year. You need fortune to smile on you. Bounces, health, peak performances from your best players, unexpected heroes etc.

If you have a chance to add Wisniewski and create the best defense in the league you do it. I would rather have a dominant defense and hope for goals by committee like the late 80s/early 90s Habs than add a couple of mediocre forwards for the same cost.

The Bruins just won a Cup doing this. There is no player out there that can create an elite offensive unit, but there are defenseman that when added to the core the Habs already have that will place them in the discussion of best defense in the NHL.

Add in Price and you have the Devils 2.0 (In reality the Canadiens 8.0 because the Devils are actually the Canadiens 7.0).

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If you have a chance to add Wisniewski and create the best defense in the league you do it. I would rather have a dominant defense and hope for goals by committee like the late 80s/early 90s Habs than add a couple of mediocre forwards for the same cost.

The Bruins just won a Cup doing this. There is no player out there that can create an elite offensive unit, but there are defenseman that when added to the core the Habs already have that will place them in the discussion of best defense in the NHL.

Add in Price and you have the Devils 2.0 (In reality the Canadiens 8.0 because the Devils are actually the Canadiens 7.0).

Hear hear! I wonder if our agreement on this comes from watching those older Habs teams. You cannot, in my opinion, do better than to build from the back end out. Markov/Wiz/PK, supplemented by Weber where necessary, will provide tremendous offensive push and intensify, rather than change, the identity of our team as one whose offence comes from the transition game. Do that, and just watch the production of our forwards spike upward.

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The problem I'd have with signing Wiz is that Emelin would be back in Europe ASAP.

Markov - Gorges

Subban - Gill

Wiz - Spacek (cuz we all know JM won't bench him)

Emelin

Weber

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The problem I'd have with signing Wiz is that Emelin would be back in Europe ASAP.

Markov - Gorges

Subban - Gill

Wiz - Spacek (cuz we all know JM won't bench him)

Emelin

Weber

Even without him re-signing, I wouldn't rule it out. He already has received 30% of next year's salary. If he bolts anywhere between now and then, he'll surely get the same deal he had in the KHL so he'd wind up with more money and secure his UFA status in 2 years time. The Habs will have to tread lightly with Yemelin for sure.

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Not quite. Boyd was one of the players and as we know he did play for Montreal/Hamilton this year.

I don't want to nitpick (or maybe I do) but he didn't sign with us while we held his rights. He choose to go to free agency.

Yes we signed him, but we didn't need to trade SK to sign Boyd as a free agent.

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I don't want to nitpick (or maybe I do) but he didn't sign with us while we held his rights. He choose to go to free agency.

Yes we signed him, but we didn't need to trade SK to sign Boyd as a free agent.

Though you're correct in the timing, the deal was agreed upon prior to noon on July 1st though not announced until later in the day. At least that's what I had heard.

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Though you're correct in the timing, the deal was agreed upon prior to noon on July 1st though not announced until later in the day. At least that's what I had heard.

Oh, I never heard this before. Thanks.

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Hear hear! I wonder if our agreement on this comes from watching those older Habs teams. You cannot, in my opinion, do better than to build from the back end out. Markov/Wiz/PK, supplemented by Weber where necessary, will provide tremendous offensive push and intensify, rather than change, the identity of our team as one whose offence comes from the transition game. Do that, and just watch the production of our forwards spike upward.

Definitely. Create an identity and stick to it.

The problem is the knee jerk reaction. If the Devils switched jerseys with the Habs from 1995 to 2004 the fans would have complained along the whole way even thought they won three Stanley Cups. They would complain about the lack of offense, they would complain about Brodeur during off seasons and they would complain when they went out early to inferior teams. There is a consistency and familiarity that goes into building a team and a game plan.

One day the Habs will return to that model, maybe Emelin and Weber are better than we think and Gauthier expects them to bridge that gap. Remember, Streit was viewed as a non-factor entering 2008 and Subban was expected to be a 6th defenseman last season.

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