Kaboom Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Sign him even at 4.5 we would still be able to trade him if we had too. He does bring a lot to this team i just wish they would tell him to shoot more. We all see it he has the tools to be a great player but he has played well for us and lets hope he rips it up the rest of the season. If he wants more bye bye!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehjay Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Let's say that AK46's demands are onerous. He wants $4.5 mil, something like that. Or let's say that he is basically committed to sampling the UFA market. In other words, you can't resign him. At that point, and if we are in the playoff mix, do you trade him for a lower 1st-round pick, or do you keep him then lose him at season's end? I think a 4+ mil. contract for Kosty is too much of a risk. So far multi yr deals has not served the team well in his case. Thus an inferior amount to 4 million cap hit is needed IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I think a 4+ mil. contract for Kosty is too much of a risk. So far multi yr deals has not served the team well in his case. Thus an inferior amount to 4 million cap hit is needed IMO. Kosty will never take less than 4 mill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehjay Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Kosty will never take less than 4 mill. then ship him, i think and try to land a high pick or promising prospect. The Habs should and I repeat SHOULD not loose him for nothing imo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCHabnut Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 then ship him, i think and try to land a high pick or promising prospect. The Habs should and I repeat SHOULD not loose him for nothing imo I'd sooner lock him up for 4 years at 4.2 mill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ehjay Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'd sooner lock him up for 4 years at 4.2 mill. still seems kinda steep. I would rather try for 3.9 for 4 years with a bonus clause to get him to your range maybe a bit higher. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 still seems kinda steep. I would rather try for 3.9 for 4 years with a bonus clause to get him to your range maybe a bit higher. You can't give players bonus clauses... not unless they are Entry Level Contracts... over 35s on a one year contract only, or a player who has been massively injured for 2 straight years, and is signing a one year deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I think $4.2m is a no brainer, even then we will need to entice him to forego free agency with a dining bonus. I would try and lock him up at $24m over 6 years ($4m/yr), with enticement of a $6m signing bonus payable July 1. By offering a big bonus like that, we may even be able to lock him up for a cap hit of around $3.8m. I can see him getting around $5m as a UFA and if need be, I'd go as high as $4.5m. However any higher then that and he needs to be moved. I think he will break out to be a 30-35 goal scorer. He really has become a better all round player and I think he will turn out to be in the top 6 of his draft class within 2 years. JM really was brutal on him and you can now see how he is generating chances on his own and setting up his linemates rather then needing someone set him up. Frankly, given that he is only 26 and has really beeen mis-used in Montreal I don't see 40 goals, 75 points as being out of the question. At the very least he WILL be a 60-70 point guy. I'd sooner lock him up for 4 years at 4.2 mill. You can offer signing bonuses though and that will reduce the overall cap hit. You can't give players bonus clauses... not unless they are Entry Level Contracts... over 35s on a one year contract only, or a player who has been massively injured for 2 straight years, and is signing a one year deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 As I've said I would do $4.5m. Even then we will need to offer a signing bonus- which can be used to lower the cap hit, by having a lower salary in subsequent years. Frankly I don't think the habs will make an honest effort to resign him. He has to be moved if not signed by the deadline. And if don't resign him we WILL regret it. We are talking about a 26 year old, skilled power forward who is finally putting it together and justifying his draft position. Let's say that AK46's demands are onerous. He wants $4.5 mil, something like that. Or let's say that he is basically committed to sampling the UFA market. In other words, you can't resign him. At that point, and if we are in the playoff mix, do you trade him for a lower 1st-round pick, or do you keep him then lose him at season's end? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I think $4.2m is a no brainer, even then we will need to entice him to forego free agency with a dining bonus. I would try and lock him up at $24m over 6 years ($4m/yr), with enticement of a $6m signing bonus payable July 1. By offering a big bonus like that, we may even be able to lock him up for a cap hit of around $3.8m. I can see him getting around $5m as a UFA and if need be, I'd go as high as $4.5m. However any higher then that and he needs to be moved. I think he will break out to be a 30-35 goal scorer. He really has become a better all round player and I think he will turn out to be in the top 6 of his draft class within 2 years. JM really was brutal on him and you can now see how he is generating chances on his own and setting up his linemates rather then needing someone set him up. Frankly, given that he is only 26 and has really beeen mis-used in Montreal I don't see 40 goals, 75 points as being out of the question. At the very least he WILL be a 60-70 point guy. You can offer signing bonuses though and that will reduce the overall cap hit. Signing Bonuses still count against the cap.... if you give him 24 million in salary + 6 million signing bonus, it means his cap hit is 30m/6 = 5 mill per season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Also we're talking about a 27 year old.... the whole... we'll reduce the salary in later years, doesn't work with a 27 year old and a 6 year deal. He's still in his early 30s at the end of the contract. This isn't Brad Richards scheduled to make 1.5 million and 1 million per season at the age of 38 and 39 when his skills have likely declined and he can retire without even playing those years. This is a 27 year old who will still want to get paid at 33. You'd have to go 12 years to have the same ability to do the tack on years at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm saying total salary including signing bonus of $24m. Getting $6m up front means the player will get $3m/yr in salary in subsequent years with a cap hit of $4m. Why would they be willing to do that?? Time value of money - getting $6m on July 1, 2012. This is a great way to get players to take less annual salary and lower your cap hit. It's what the sabres did with Meyers and the guy they signed from Vancouver. Signing Bonuses still count against the cap.... if you give him 24 million in salary + 6 million signing bonus, it means his cap hit is 30m/6 = 5 mill per season Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I agree on the time value of money helping. I'm just not sure it helps as much as you suggest though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Let's say that AK46's demands are onerous. He wants $4.5 mil, something like that. Or let's say that he is basically committed to sampling the UFA market. In other words, you can't resign him. At that point, and if we are in the playoff mix, do you trade him for a lower 1st-round pick, or do you keep him then lose him at season's end? Trade in a heart beat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMMR Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Also we're talking about a 27 year old.... the whole... we'll reduce the salary in later years, doesn't work with a 27 year old and a 6 year deal. He's still in his early 30s at the end of the contract. This isn't Brad Richards scheduled to make 1.5 million and 1 million per season at the age of 38 and 39 when his skills have likely declined and he can retire without even playing those years. This is a 27 year old who will still want to get paid at 33. You'd have to go 12 years to have the same ability to do the tack on years at the end. I wish the Habs would d that cap circumvention like so many teams do. It would be so easy to sign everyone, all you have to do it not sign them past 38 years old. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Meyers signed a shorter term deal. I believe it was for around 6 years. I'm not saying he would only be making nominal money in later years like Ricjards is. Richards contract is a retirement deal. Also we're talking about a 27 year old.... the whole... we'll reduce the salary in later years, doesn't work with a 27 year old and a 6 year deal. He's still in his early 30s at the end of the contract. This isn't Brad Richards scheduled to make 1.5 million and 1 million per season at the age of 38 and 39 when his skills have likely declined and he can retire without even playing those years. This is a 27 year old who will still want to get paid at 33. You'd have to go 12 years to have the same ability to do the tack on years at the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I wish the Habs would d that cap circumvention like so many teams do. It would be so easy to sign everyone, all you have to do it not sign them past 38 years old. On some players I agree. For example I'd do it for a Brad Richards, or on our own team I'd do it for Carey Price. I don't know if you want to get into these long term contracts with players who aren't superstars though. Kostitsyn I like, but he's not in that class of importance and he's not the guy I commit a decade too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BTH Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I'm saying total salary including signing bonus of $24m. Getting $6m up front means the player will get $3m/yr in salary in subsequent years with a cap hit of $4m. Why would they be willing to do that?? Time value of money - getting $6m on July 1, 2012. This is a great way to get players to take less annual salary and lower your cap hit. It's what the sabres did with Meyers and the guy they signed from Vancouver. Signing bonuses do count against the cap. Or else everybody would be doing them. That would be a massive loophole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I never said they don't count against the cap. I don't think you understand the point. Signing bonuses are a means of front loading contracts - which has already been recognized as a loophole in the CBA, which most teams are exploiting - unfortunately the habs are not one of them. The point of front loading the contract is to pay out more in the earlier years of the contract, in order for a player to take less in later years. What this does is lower the annual cap hit (which is calculated by dividing the total value of the contract by the number of years on the contract). There are two forms to these deals. The first is the Ruchards/kovalchuck/Lecavalier type 10-13 year deal, which have minimal salaries in the later years that the players is never expected to collect because he will probably retire before the contract expires. Part of this loophole was closed with the kovalchuk contract with new rules on the term and dollars during the tail end years. The loophole will probably totally be closed completely in the next CBA. The other way to front load is to have signing bonuses payable on July 1 of the year of the contract or in the early years of the contract. There have been numerous deals like this, most recently with Tyler Meyers of buffalo last summer. The team offers the player an incentive to take less overall money (ie. take total dollars of $30 million over the life of the contract of 6 years, rather then total contract of $36 million, by paying the player $6m signing bonus and then $4m/yr for the duration, rather then getting $6m/yr over 6 years. The incentive for the player is that with the signing bonus and first year salary, during the 1st year of the deal he is getting $10m. Time value of money makes it attractive to get more money earlier. The incentive for the team is that, while they have a higher expense now, their overall payout over the life of the contract is less, which more importantly reduces the annual cap hit of the contract. In this example, the cap hit is $5/yr rather then $6m/yr. This is what I've been arguing since last summer what the habs should do with Subban, price, gorges and ak46. I wish they had done this with gorges this year, as they probably could have saved $0.5m/yr on gorges cap hit. Signing bonuses do count against the cap. Or else everybody would be doing them. That would be a massive loophole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenadian Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Here's what I'd do.........since this has degraded into a wish-list armchair GM thread and not a "rumor" thread Cut AK loose PERIOD (even for a mid round pick or let him walk) Better players have walked then him in the past. How long do we stick it out for his inconsistant half-assed play? Ya sure he has good games but also those where he's invisible Ya I know he's got his cheerleaders try to resign him, but WHY? More money and I'm assuming the SAME half-assed play Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenadian Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 One of these days I'm going to see an actual rumour in here. That would be nice, even one of EK's wild one's concerning the Habs................................. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hab29RETIRED Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 Here's what I'd do.........since this has degraded into a wish-list armchair GM thread and not a "rumor" thread Cut AK loose PERIOD (even for a mid round pick or let him walk) Better players have walked then him in the past. How long do we stick it out for his inconsistant half-assed play? Ya sure he has good games but also those where he's invisible Ya I know he's got his cheerleaders try to resign him, but WHY? More money and I'm assuming the SAME half-assed play sure and who do you propose to replace his goals with Darche???? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlbalr Posted January 10, 2012 Share Posted January 10, 2012 I am reading on HF Boards that Martin is the newests Habs scout. Apparently that news is on the radio. Unfortunely i don't get radio from Montreal so I can not varify. As far as I know, the club hasn't announced it yet (they didn't with Pearn either) but this is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Commandant Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 You still have to pay him, so he might as well do something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colin Posted January 11, 2012 Share Posted January 11, 2012 Rumours of Perezhogin returning. Is it even possible? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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