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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Loving the belief in Suzuki on this thread. I have no idea whether his ceiling is higher than PLD's, myself.

 

The KK/Mete/+ idea is one I would jump on for sure. It's just that I'll be surprised if CBJ settles for that.

I don't think that would work in terms of salary. Too much salary coming in and not enough going back to Columbus.

 

What about KK, Drouin and a 2nd rounder...would that be enough to get Columbus to say yes!?!?

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6 minutes ago, Habsfan said:

I don't think that would work in terms of salary. Too much salary coming in and not enough going back to Columbus.

 

What about KK, Drouin and a 2nd rounder...would that be enough to get Columbus to say yes!?!?

 

Not unless they fire Torts at the same time ... LOL ... cannot see Jonathan fitting with JT.

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2 minutes ago, GHT120 said:

 

Not unless they fire Torts at the same time ... LOL ... cannot see Jonathan fitting with JT.

Good point!

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1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

It's even possible that Kotkaniemi will match him (Don was salivating about a big centre that is a #3 overall pick ...). What Dubois is, is a lower risk than either of the two, in terms of development, as he's already 22.

Anything is possible, but KK hasnt matched his 47g in 1st 2 seasons. So career starting out much slower, but KK is just 20 yr old and we all hope this is his breakout year.

One projection for KK; is hitting on a 37pt/82gm pace this year with just 24pts. 

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41 minutes ago, DON said:

Anything is possible, but KK hasnt matched his 47g in 1st 2 seasons. So career starting out much slower, but KK is just 20 yr old and we all hope this is his breakout year.

One projection for KK; is hitting on a 37pt/82gm pace this year with just 24pts. 

 

My question for Kotkaniemi is really what he can do in two years (when he is as old as Dubois) or in four years. He will surely improve this year but I very much doubt this year will be the best of his career, at age 20.

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1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

 

My question for Kotkaniemi is really what he can do in two years (when he is as old as Dubois) or in four years. He will surely improve this year but I very much doubt this year will be the best of his career, at age 20.

Agree, he should get stronger and more confident over next few years and still seems a smart player, just simply trying to compare is all. How can you be down on a kid that is only 20, had injuries to play through last season and had productive rookie year at 18.

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I’d love to know what Anderson thinks of PLD. 

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10 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Well, what *is* an overpay? Suzuki, to me, is the minimum that CBJ should ask for in return. There would probably need to be additional assets involved. Suze + a 1st? What is the “plus?” And at what point does it become an overpay?

 

I am sure CBJ would want Suzuki, don't blame them for that. To me Suzuki alone could turn out to be an overpay. Suzuki and a 1st is definitely an overpay in my opinion. The kid is going to be great.

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19 minutes ago, revvvrob said:

I’d love to know what Anderson thinks of PLD. 

I have read reports that they are good friends

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See, folks in this thread have argued that both Suze and KK will be better than PLD. One, I can see, but both? I doubt it. Sounds like “two in the bush” logic regarding young players to me. In fact, if KK evolves into a 60-point pivot we will probably call that “potential amply fulfilled.”

 

The Gazette was mooting KK + Drouin. They note that Drouin and Domi are pals, apparently. I don’t like the hole that leaves at LW, but yeah, I pull that trigger and don’t look back.

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14 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

See, folks in this thread have argued that both Suze and KK will be better than PLD. One, I can see, but both? I doubt it. Sounds like “two in the bush” logic regarding young players to me. In fact, if KK evolves into a 60-point pivot we will probably call that “potential amply fulfilled.”

 

The Gazette was mooting KK + Drouin. They note that Drouin and Domi are pals, apparently. I don’t like the hole that leaves at LW, but yeah, I pull that trigger and don’t look back.

 

This is obviously a make it or break it year for Drouin. If he can't light it up playing with Suzuki and Anderson then he never will. I don't think MB makes that trade. 

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Drouin will have similar numbers to Tatar this year.

 

I would not add him to KK on a trade for PLD.

 

KK and anyone in the bottom 6 or Laval is fine by me.

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1 minute ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

We no longer NEED PLD 

 

Don’t give up the farm

 

just a goat and a couple of lame ducks

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3 minutes ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:

We no longer NEED PLD 

 

Don’t give up the farm

 

Plus the kids are cheaper right now. It was mentioned earlier that we needed a guy like PLD for years and now that he is available, we don't need him. Funny how that works. I think you are 100% correct, we no longer need him. 

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1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

Plus the kids are cheaper right now. It was mentioned earlier that we needed a guy like PLD for years and now that he is available, we don't need him. Funny how that works. I think you are 100% correct, we no longer need him. 

I wouldn’t say we don’t need him.  Would love to have him.  But with KK and Suzuki we have some cap flexibility.  Unless Danault is going the other way, from a cap perspective a deal doesn’t make sense.  If we trade for PLD and Danault is not part of the deal, think for sure we lose Danault  at the end of the year.  I don’t see how we fit him under the cap. That means are sudden new found depth at centre - something we have been starving for - is instantly gone.

 

I think if Columbus was offering Danault, a long-term deal with top line money, he would probably be willing to resign with them right away - in the current environment, there are no guarantees he would do better in free agency.  If it wasn’t for Covid and impact on revenues and the cap, I think  Pietrangelo would have gotten more than he did - and he was one of the few players to do well in free agency.  Danault is a perfect Torts player as well. For a Danault deal to be viable, I think the Jackets would have to be willing to give him a deal that is $7m+ for 5+ years.  I doubt he could get that as a UFA in the current market conditions.  They also gave up a lot of draft picks, so that would be another piece we could add.  They have had issues with resigning and retaining players, so another player with term would probably help. 

 

Danault+Drouin+Mete and a 1st is what I’d try for PLD+3rd pick, before giving up blue chip centre prospects. Yes Danault is a UFA, but if they don’t screw around and give him a long-term offer with top line $, I can’t see him foregoing that to be a UFA.

 

as fir Drouin, no he isn’t a Torts player, but they still need scoring. Drouin may also be willing to re-up with them if he is a s close with Domi as has been reported. They are solid in net and defence, but need scoring.  I think they are ahead with Danault +Drouin than with PLD alone.  We on the other hand would probably lose Danault, because we can’t afford him.

 

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So the Habs can get Dubois without losing a long-term core player and Danault gets a steep overpayment?  There's no possible way Columbus could justify doing that.

 

Again, if I'm Jarmo Kekalainen, the simple demand of Bergevin is as follows - one of Suzuki or Kotkaniemi has to be in the deal.  If that doesn't happen, there's no reason whatsoever for Columbus to consider dealing Dubois to Montreal.

 

Dubois is their number one centre.  As Montreal fans, we can't say that Danault shouldn't be the number one in Montreal but hey, he could easily fill that role in Columbus and it would make sense for them to have him in that role.  Drouin would last about a period and a half before getting into Tortorella's doghouse.  And by the time his contract is up, Domi will have signed elsewhere as a UFA.  You can try that offer all you want...I don't think Bergevin would be able to get it out of his mouth before he's hung up on though.

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58 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

So the Habs can get Dubois without losing a long-term core player and Danault gets a steep overpayment?  There's no possible way Columbus could justify doing that.

 

Again, if I'm Jarmo Kekalainen, the simple demand of Bergevin is as follows - one of Suzuki or Kotkaniemi has to be in the deal.  If that doesn't happen, there's no reason whatsoever for Columbus to consider dealing Dubois to Montreal.

 

Dubois is their number one centre.  As Montreal fans, we can't say that Danault shouldn't be the number one in Montreal but hey, he could easily fill that role in Columbus and it would make sense for them to have him in that role.  Drouin would last about a period and a half before getting into Tortorella's doghouse.  And by the time his contract is up, Domi will have signed elsewhere as a UFA.  You can try that offer all you want...I don't think Bergevin would be able to get it out of his mouth before he's hung up on though.

 

Good post. You have to put yourself in the other team’s shoes. If the Habs had Dubois, the fabled young and skilled #1C with size, and he wanted out, would we *possibly* accept Danault/Drouin in return? No. In fact, we would string Bergevin up from yardarm if he did that - selling out the franchise cornerstone for a two-way 50-point C due for a big raise, and an erratic 55-point winger who has not once in five seasons shown himself to be a player to count on.

 

Frankly, I am surprised by the KK rumours. If I were CBJ, I would insist on Suzuki, period. I like KK, I am cautiously optimistic about him becoming an impact top-6 C, but let’s face it, he is being hyped more because of 10 play-in games and his high draft position than because of anything he has actually done in two years. Unlike Suze, he has yet to show any sustained delivery on his promise.

 

10 hours ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I wouldn’t say we don’t need him.  Would love to have him.  But with KK and Suzuki we have some cap flexibility.  Unless Danault is going the other way, from a cap perspective a deal doesn’t make sense.  If we trade for PLD and Danault is not part of the deal, think for sure we lose Danault  at the end of the year.  I don’t see how we fit him under the cap. That means are sudden new found depth at centre - something we have been starving for - is instantly gone.

 

 

That is an excellent point about the cap and our depth at C.

 

I’ve been all over the map on this Dubois question, but given the strength of this point, coupled with my disbelief that CBJ would accept Danault as an adequate keystone in return, maybe there is simply not a deal to be had here.

 

 

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1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

So the Habs can get Dubois without losing a long-term core player and Danault gets a steep overpayment?  There's no possible way Columbus could justify doing that.

 

Again, if I'm Jarmo Kekalainen, the simple demand of Bergevin is as follows - one of Suzuki or Kotkaniemi has to be in the deal.  If that doesn't happen, there's no reason whatsoever for Columbus to consider dealing Dubois to Montreal.

 

Dubois is their number one centre.  As Montreal fans, we can't say that Danault shouldn't be the number one in Montreal but hey, he could easily fill that role in Columbus and it would make sense for them to have him in that role.  Drouin would last about a period and a half before getting into Tortorella's doghouse.  And by the time his contract is up, Domi will have signed elsewhere as a UFA.  You can try that offer all you want...I don't think Bergevin would be able to get it out of his mouth before he's hung up on though.

 

Agree, if I am Columbus I would insist on one of Kotkaniemi or Suzuki. If you are losing a young stud then you need to replace him with a young stud or someone who has that potential. Danault is a very good player but not a stud. I like to think that Suzuki is untouchable at this point because his ceiling is so high. If nothing else it's interesting to discuss. No doubt that Dubois is a very valuable piece and will/should command a high return.  Players like him, especially at his age aren't available often on the trade market. 

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13 hours ago, revvvrob said:

I’d love to know what Anderson thinks of PLD. 

Now that is a great question!!!

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2 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Frankly, I am surprised by the KK rumours. If I were CBJ, I would insist on Suzuki, period. I like KK, I am cautiously optimistic about him becoming an impact top-6 C, but let’s face it, he is being hyped more because of 10 play-in games and his high draft position than because of anything he has actually done in two years. Unlike Suze, he has yet to show any sustained delivery on his promise.

 

That is an excellent point about the cap and our depth at C.

 

I’ve been all over the map on this Dubois question, but given the strength of this point, coupled with my disbelief that CBJ would accept Danault as an adequate keystone in return, maybe there is simply not a deal to be had here.

 

 

Kotkaniemi had a strong 2/3 of a rookie season, but ran out of steam toward the end -- not surprising for an 18yo rookie. That did show some consistency, but the second season was pretty bad, for multiple reasons (injury, wrong choice of summer training etc). But I'm not ready to write off his potential to become something roughly similar level as Dubois -- but clearly he's not there today.

 

As I have said in my other posts, I don't think this works for us. We need to give up too much (to Columbus first, and then to fit under the cap) that the trade doesn't make us significantly stronger in the short term, let alone future seasons. As enticing as this piece of candy is, maybe we should stick with what we have today.

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16 minutes ago, sbhatt said:

Ek is now saying that PLD wants to go to NY to play with his buddy Panarin.

 

It'd be a great fit for him and the Rangers.  However, they don't have the impact centre to send the other way which is why they were stuck re-signing Strome.  Chytil has some upside but they don't know if he can be a top-six guy yet, same with Howden. 

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KK was still the 7th youngest player in the entire NHL in his second year (regulars, not kids who got the 9 game tryout and sent down).  One thing to remember when we talk about his second year struggles. 

That said, KK + Mete as the basis of a deal is something I would definitely do.... then the rest is fitting under the cap... which will mean likely Byron + Weal, and waiting a few more weeks of cap manipulation with these callups/send downs of guys like Evans, Romanov, KK.

Of course there still is a big IF in that IF that were possible.

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3 hours ago, dlbalr said:

So the Habs can get Dubois without losing a long-term core player and Danault gets a steep overpayment?  There's no possible way Columbus could justify doing that.

 

Again, if I'm Jarmo Kekalainen, the simple demand of Bergevin is as follows - one of Suzuki or Kotkaniemi has to be in the deal.  If that doesn't happen, there's no reason whatsoever for Columbus to consider dealing Dubois to Montreal.

 

Dubois is their number one centre.  As Montreal fans, we can't say that Danault shouldn't be the number one in Montreal but hey, he could easily fill that role in Columbus and it would make sense for them to have him in that role.  Drouin would last about a period and a half before getting into Tortorella's doghouse.  And by the time his contract is up, Domi will have signed elsewhere as a UFA.  You can try that offer all you want...I don't think Bergevin would be able to get it out of his mouth before he's hung up on though.

Hey I’ve been saying fir a couple of years that I don’t consider Danault a true #1/#1b-#1c type of centre and would don’t think I we are. Real contender unless he is on the 3rd line - I see him as a Carbonneau, Risebrough type of player, but others have constantly thrown his 5 on 5 stats as proof that he is a #1 centre. If he is, than $7.5m/yr is not an over-payment for him.  It may be an over-payment in the pandemic, low revenue environment, but by the looks of it, Columbus is going to have to over-pay pretty much ANY player to stay there. Can’t blame them Ohio would probably be on the bottom of my list, along with Raleigh.  Hell, I think the contract they gave to Domi is an overpay and what we gave to Anderson is an overpay in the current environment and their track records.

 

secondly, I’d they want to retain Tirts, I think Danault is exactly the type of player Torts lives and I think Danault would thrive under him.

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