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1 hour ago, GHT120 said:

It works in that the Habs would would not be over the cap ... but they would have $46K-ish of space ... don't know that MB could "manage" that to enough to be able to make a deal of any use at the deadline ... Ylonen has no impact as he is not on the NHL/cap roster

 

It doesn't work cap-wise as you have to factor in the second forward needed to be recalled to take Byron's spot as well.  That recall would put them over.

 

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Do we know why Laine wants out? 

 

I meant it makes sense in hockey terms. Your consistent assumption has been that CBJ can’t make hockey decisions per se, but has to proceed on the assumption that guys don’t want to play there. I don’t know why Columbus has had such a problem with bleeding talent over the years while other markets like Minnesota or other blah markets (e.g., Calgary, Buffalo, or even Detroit, which is basically a bombed-out sinkhole except for a few rich redoubts) seem not to; but I suspect it has less to do with the city per se than with a culture which has crept into the Jackets’ organization. They need to fix that.

From the players that left in the big exodus year, it sounded like they all wanted to move a bigger stage and it was the city. Kind of like Edmonton not  really being liked.  Pronger went to the finals and wanted out.  The blue jackets actually rolled the dice and went all in to try to win a couple of years ago and still lost all their UFA’s.  hell, even Davidson left to take the same job in New York (although he played and was a broadcaster for the rangers for a long time).  But Florida’s been a crap franchise for years and guys are still picking them over Columbus.  As far as Winnipeg, trouba wanted out and even though Laine was getting th role he asked for last year, he still wants out.

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1 hour ago, dlbalr said:

 

It doesn't work cap-wise as you have to factor in the second forward needed to be recalled to take Byron's spot as well.  That recall would put them over.

 

The 13 forward roster is so ingrained to my mind that I always forget they are only carrying 12 ...
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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Do we know why Laine wants out? 

 

I meant it makes sense in hockey terms. Your consistent assumption has been that CBJ can’t make hockey decisions per se, but has to proceed on the assumption that guys don’t want to play there. I don’t know why Columbus has had such a problem with bleeding talent over the years while other markets like Minnesota or other blah markets (e.g., Calgary, Buffalo, or even Detroit, which is basically a bombed-out sinkhole except for a few rich redoubts) seem not to; but I suspect it has less to do with the city per se than with a culture which has crept into the Jackets’ organization. They need to fix that.

He's not playing on the top line with the jets top players from what I understand last year. Don't know if anything has changed this year. 

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1 hour ago, Habsfan89 said:

He's not playing on the top line with the jets top players from what I understand last year. Don't know if anything has changed this year. 

In their first game, based on TOI at even strength, he was again on the second line ... but looks like Scheifele may have done some double shifting (19:12) as their other two top 9 centres had almost 2 minutes (11:33/11:31) less at even-strength than the second line wingers (13:28/13:27)

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5 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

The persistent Laine-Dubois rumour makes a lot more sense than any of the non-Suzuki proposals emanating from Montreal.

 

The problem with the rumour is that if its true Dubois wants a bigger stage he wont be happy in Winnipeg either.  So Winnipeg exchanges one problem for another?

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1 hour ago, Commandant said:

 

The problem with the rumour is that if its true Dubois wants a bigger stage he wont be happy in Winnipeg either.  So Winnipeg exchanges one problem for another?

I think both teams would be exchanging one problem for another.

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53 minutes ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think both teams would be exchanging one problem for another.

 

It depends what Dubois wants. Maybe he wants to live in one of the great North American cities (NYC, Chicago, Toronto, Montreal, Boston, etc.). Or maybe he wants to be in a city where he is the BMOC - the star about town, as opposed to Columbus, where nobody recognizes him on the street. If it's the latter, then hell, he would be a god in Winnipeg.

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1 hour ago, hab29RETIRED said:

I think both teams would be exchanging one problem for another.

 

I think both teams will want long term solutions to their problems, not guys who are looking for bigger markets. 

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55 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

It depends what Dubois wants. Maybe he wants to live in one of the great North American cities (NYC, Chicago, Toronto, Montreal, Boston, etc.). Or maybe he wants to be in a city where he is the BMOC - the star about town, as opposed to Columbus, where nobody recognizes him on the street. If it's the latter, then hell, he would be a god in Winnipeg.

 

Until proven otherwise, I assume its about $ and there are a lot more endorsement opportunities in some cities than otherwise.

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All I know is Dubois would immediately be King in Mtl being a francophone stud and all...

 

So with  CAP being the issue still  when including  Byron maybe we go higher

 

Dubois

KK Drouin ylonen fleury

Or 

KK Drouin and picks 

 

Habs call up Perry

 

Tatar danault Gallagher 

Toffoli Dubois Armia

Byron Suzuki Anderson

Lehks Evans Perry

 

Are we better? Or the same?

As Kk is growing by the day

 

 

 

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I believe we would be worse. Perry is nowhere near a Drouin replacement: 20 points (max!) for a full season rather than 50.

 

Kotkaniemi scored 34 in his rookie season, he will surely score 40-50 this year. Dubois has been at a 60-point pace the last two years.

 

So, 20 points (to be generous) and 60 for Dubois is 80. We're giving up 40 points (at a minimum) plus 50, total of 90. Maybe my numbers are off a bit, but this is not a big win for us. And next year -- I guess we could try to re-sign Tatar if Drouin is gone, but we'd need to give significant term to a 30-year-old winger.

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48 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

I believe we would be worse. Perry is nowhere near a Drouin replacement: 20 points (max!) for a full season rather than 50.

 

Kotkaniemi scored 34 in his rookie season, he will surely score 40-50 this year. Dubois has been at a 60-point pace the last two years.

 

So, 20 points (to be generous) and 60 for Dubois is 80. We're giving up 40 points (at a minimum) plus 50, total of 90. Maybe my numbers are off a bit, but this is not a big win for us. And next year -- I guess we could try to re-sign Tatar if Drouin is gone, but we'd need to give significant term to a 30-year-old winger.

What if we offered 

Danault + Tatar 

For

Dubois?

Gives Columbus a center to replace Dubois and a winger that they need. New line could be

Drouin  / Suzuki  / Anderson 

Toffoli  / Dubois / Gallagher 

Byron  / Kotkaniemi  / Perry

Lehkonen  / Evans  /Armia 

 

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48 minutes ago, Habsfan89 said:

What if we offered 

Danault + Tatar 

For

Dubois?

 

I don't think Columbus would be remotely interested in that. They haven't been good at signing free agents and they would want a young stud to replace Dubois. I can't see a deal being made unless one of Suzuki or KK is part of it so I am ok if a deal doesn't happen.

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4 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

I think both teams will want long term solutions to their problems, not guys who are looking for bigger markets. 

Agreed.

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18 hours ago, IN THE HEARTS OF MEN said:

All I know is Dubois would immediately be King in Mtl being a francophone stud and all...

 

So with  CAP being the issue still  when including  Byron maybe we go higher

 

Dubois

KK Drouin ylonen fleury

Or 

KK Drouin and picks 

 

Habs call up Perry

 

Tatar danault Gallagher 

Toffoli Dubois Armia

Byron Suzuki Anderson

Lehks Evans Perry

 

Are we better? Or the same?

As Kk is growing by the day

 

 

 

I see it as a quite big downgrade for us. 

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I don’t think MB built this team to now blow it up for PLD.

 

I could see KK, Byron, and a prospect like Caufield for PLD.

Doesn’t change the line dynamics too much. Not sure about cap space. 

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First, my opinion: No need at all to blow up the team or chemistry by adding PLD.

 

However, I wouldn't cry if it took Kotkaneimi AND Caufield or Poehling to get him to Montreal.

 

But, Im trying to figure out how this teams must think i perspective of the upcoming expansion draft, the salary cap probably not raising at the rate most GM presumed when most current contracts ware signed.

 

Say that we did use Kotkaniemi in order to get PLD to Montreal, would that in the end of the season mean that we would have to expose one more player to the expansion draft?

 

Does anyone have a clear picture of this that could educate me?

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Kotkaniemi is not exempt (although Suzuki is) so there would be no expansion draft impact.

 

I personally don't think Columbus would bite on Kotkaniemi+Caufield. Because their team is set up for "win now/soon", they don't have a strong prospect pipeline, and both Kotkaniemi and Caufield will need time to mature.

 

And, for that matter, I think that two or three years from now Kotkaniemi+Caufield will likely be more valuable to us than Dubois. And this trade would move us from cap purgatory into cap hell. But that's just my opinion.

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2 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Kotkaniemi is not exempt (although Suzuki is) so there would be no expansion draft impact.

 

I personally don't think Columbus would bite on Kotkaniemi+Caufield. Because their team is set up for "win now/soon", they don't have a strong prospect pipeline, and both Kotkaniemi and Caufield will need time to mature.

 

And, for that matter, I think that two or three years from now Kotkaniemi+Caufield will likely be more valuable to us than Dubois. And this trade would move us from cap purgatory into cap hell. But that's just my opinion.

 

The cap is always a consideration as you generally need a few guys on entry level contracts to make things work. 

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2 minutes ago, tomh009 said:

Kotkaniemi is not exempt (although Suzuki is) so there would be no expansion draft impact.

 

I personally don't think Columbus would bite on Kotkaniemi+Caufield. Because their team is set up for "win now/soon", they don't have a strong prospect pipeline, and both Kotkaniemi and Caufield will need time to mature.

 

And, for that matter, I think that two or three years from now Kotkaniemi+Caufield will likely be more valuable to us than Dubois. And this trade would move us from cap purgatory into cap hell. But that's just my opinion.

I totally agree.  Which is why I’m not interested in PLD, unless the deal is centred around Danault and Drouin, but realize that Danault’s contract makes that deal unlikely unless Columbus was certain they could extend him.

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1 hour ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

The cap is always a consideration as you generally need a few guys on entry level contracts to make things work. 

Of course next season KK is no longer on an entry level contract ... likely won't be be near PLD's $5M, unless MB goes long-term ... KK has 4 more seasons until free agency so an 8-yr deal could "buy out" 4 years of free agency ... seriously doubt KK gets that type of contract unless he has a huge breakout season and the Habs are confident they know what he will be going forward.

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