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31 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Yep. It looks suspiciously like Poehling is the latest in a long line of fan darlings who will never amount to much more than an adequate NHLer at best. It’s analogous to the idea - propagated with great intensity by quite a few fans - that Eller was a #1C being irrationally held back by the cruel, cruel Habs (although at least Eller was a legit NHLer - but the principle is the same, a guy being blown out of all proportion by a significant chunk of the fan base). Despite some fans’ comically pencilling him as a top-6 C the very next season after his 4-point explosion, the fact is that Poehling may or may not become an NHL regular. The idea that he is a really significant asset is doubtful.

 

 


I agree with your view on putting draft picks on top lines based solely on pedigree not actuals 

 

Who do you think has more value as a grade chip

- Poehling as you described him?

- or Ikonen who seems to perform better when healthy?

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20 minutes ago, alfredoh2009 said:


I agree with your view on putting draft picks on top lines based solely on pedigree not actuals 

 

Who do you think has more value as a grade chip

- Poehling as you described him?

- or Ikonen who seems to perform better when healthy?

 

I am far from an authority on prospects, but I suspect Ikonen’s injury history will scare some teams away. Poehling might have some value, don’t get me wrong - but not at the level that will bring back any quality NHL talent or high picks, surely. Perhaps if he had responded to his “demotion” more maturely, he’d be in a better position; you can handle an elite talent acting like a prima Dona, but it’s much harder to take from a checking role-player.

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53 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I am far from an authority on prospects, but I suspect Ikonen’s injury history will scare some teams away. Poehling might have some value, don’t get me wrong - but not at the level that will bring back any quality NHL talent or high picks, surely. Perhaps if he had responded to his “demotion” more maturely, he’d be in a better position; you can handle an elite talent acting like a prima Dona, but it’s much harder to take from a checking role-player.


Poehling reminds me of Nate the Great

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13 hours ago, Habs Fan in Edmonton said:

 

With respect, I would still say flashes, was tournament MVP and best forward  at the World Juniors in 2019 where he scored a natural hat trick against Sweden. When he went to the AHL he pouted a bit, that's why I say he still has some maturing to do. He is still young. 

Potato/poTAHto ... tomato/toMAHto ... Mark Hamill/Patrick Stewart (for anyone who doesn't get the last reference)

 

Fair enough ... after a full season pro my perspective is that WJHC/CHL/NCAA achievements, while still accurate, become secondary indicators of probable NHL success ... guess in that way I am a bit of a Missourian ... I haven't written him off ... but I have tempered my expectations ... never expected him to be more than a 3C ... now looking at 4C is more probable ... but fan expectations (high or low) are best guesses ... would actually like to see him to also play on the wing in Laval to see whether that is perhaps his better pro-position and what potential he has there

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1 hour ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

I am far from an authority on prospects, but I suspect Ikonen’s injury history will scare some teams away. Poehling might have some value, don’t get me wrong - but not at the level that will bring back any quality NHL talent or high picks, surely. Perhaps if he had responded to his “demotion” more maturely, he’d be in a better position; you can handle an elite talent acting like a prima Dona, but it’s much harder to take from a checking role-player.

A checking role player who hasn't even proven himself in that role yet!

 

Ikonen has a higher ceiling, I think, he has the potential for a middle-six forward, but the injuries are indeed a big question mark and will reduce the trade value.

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2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:

Who do you think has more value as a grade chip

- Poehling as you described him?

- or Ikonen who seems to perform better when healthy?

 

Ikonen's value is about as close to zero as it can get.  He has to sign by June and and has basically missed two full years of development.  At this point, he's probably not getting signed so his trade value would probably be a 7th rounder if someone wanted to trade for him and sign him by the deadline.  If he stays healthy and dominates in Finland (not just plays well, dominates), then perhaps they could do a little better.  But his continued injury woes crater his market value.

 

Poehling hasn't been great in the NHL but we already know he can hold his own on the fourth line if it comes to it.  I think the ceiling is 3C and he has a much likelier chance of being an NHL player than Ikonen.  Having said that, I think the best they could get for him right now is a 2nd rounder because there is some skepticism on his offensive upside in the NHL which won't be helped by spending almost all of this year in Laval.

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2 hours ago, dlbalr said:

 

Ikonen's value is about as close to zero as it can get.  He has to sign by June and and has basically missed two full years of development.  At this point, he's probably not getting signed so his trade value would probably be a 7th rounder if someone wanted to trade for him and sign him by the deadline.  If he stays healthy and dominates in Finland (not just plays well, dominates), then perhaps they could do a little better.  But his continued injury woes crater his market value.

 

Poehling hasn't been great in the NHL but we already know he can hold his own on the fourth line if it comes to it.  I think the ceiling is 3C and he has a much likelier chance of being an NHL player than Ikonen.  Having said that, I think the best they could get for him right now is a 2nd rounder because there is some skepticism on his offensive upside in the NHL which won't be helped by spending almost all of this year in Laval.


I think that Ikonen, like Evans, may be a home run for any team taking a chance on him for a 7th rounder. But I agree with you assessment like I also agree with @The Chicoutimi Cucumber

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11 hours ago, Prime Minister Koivu said:


Exactly

 

Add in the fact that he shows up to camp in less than ideal physical condition year after year reminds me a lot of Hudon 

 

I would disagree with that statement. The year he suffered a concussion in training camp he came to camp in great shape, people on this site noted how "jacked" he looked when they saw pictures of him, he had a rigorous off season program. His problem was the attitude after being sent down. That's on him. 

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6 hours ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

 

Nate is another example of one of these guys that some fans had penciled in as a sure-fire impact asset, who turned out to be a mediocre player at best

 

He reminds me of McCarron.  People keep saying, but he will score in the NHL, when he hasn't been a big scorer at other levels. 

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4 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

He reminds me of McCarron.  People keep saying, but he will score in the NHL, when he hasn't been a big scorer at other levels. 

Thought he was supposed to be more a 2 way checking centre and not a big scorer to begin with? Not that his stock isnt low'ish' at the moment.

See how he does when AHL starts up again.

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11 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

He reminds me of McCarron.  People keep saying, but he will score in the NHL, when he hasn't been a big scorer at other levels. 


that is a harsh comparison. Poehling is not as bad as BigMac.

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12 hours ago, Commandant said:

 

He reminds me of McCarron.  People keep saying, but he will score in the NHL, when he hasn't been a big scorer at other levels. 

Poehling can skate. 

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2 hours ago, alfredoh2009 said:


that is a harsh comparison. Poehling is not as bad as BigMac.

 

I don't think he is as bad.  I think Poehling is an NHLer still. 

 

I just think the conversation around him is similar.  The idea that he's got top 6 potential is still in the minds of many fans because of one good WJC tournament and a great first NHL game.  I'm just saying the rest of his time in college and the AHL did not suggest a big scorer and to believe he'll ever be effective as a 2nd line centre just isn't based in any evidence. 

I hoped he could be a second liner when he was drafted, but the development since that time has kinda stalled out. 

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Hockey30 (therefore, take it for what it is worth) reporting teams are after Mete ... in this instance specifically Vancouver and Flyers ... at the moment there is no reason to trade him, unless the offer is irresistible:

Hockey30 | Les Canucks de Vancouver reviennent à la charge pour Victor Mete.

Hockey30 | Les Flyers auraient appelé Marc Bergevin...

 

 

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2 hours ago, GHT120 said:

Hockey30 (therefore, take it for what it is worth) reporting teams are after Mete ... in this instance specifically Vancouver and Flyers ... at the moment there is no reason to trade him, unless the offer is irresistible:

Hockey30 | Les Canucks de Vancouver reviennent à la charge pour Victor Mete.

Hockey30 | Les Flyers auraient appelé Marc Bergevin...

According to the Athletic, Rutherford had a deal worked out between the Pens and a Canadian team just before he resigned ...

 

image.png

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1 hour ago, tomh009 said:

According to the Athletic, Rutherford had a deal worked out between the Pens and a Canadian team just before he resigned ...

 

image.png

 

I believe this would have been Christian Jaros, not Mete for anyone wondering.

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27 minutes ago, dlbalr said:

 

I believe this would have been Christian Jaros, not Mete for anyone wondering.

That makes sense. I would be surprised to see Bergevin trade Mete at this point.

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  • 1 month later...

Eliotte Friedman on Saturday Headlines said that even though Bergevin suggested a quiet deadline for the Habs, there are people who don't believe him. Friedman also added that there is no other Canadian team better poised to make a big deal. We'll see...

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13 hours ago, Trizzak said:

Eliotte Friedman on Saturday Headlines said that even though Bergevin suggested a quiet deadline for the Habs, there are people who don't believe him. Friedman also added that there is no other Canadian team better poised to make a big deal. We'll see...

I wouldn't be surprised with a quiet deadline.  Cap space is non-existant, so that would require the habs to be trading for an asset + cap space for the asset, which would cost even more.  Bargain bin Bergevin won't dump a high pick or a good prospect just to gain cap space for an asset.  Then again, I would imagine it's playoffs or fired for him so anything is possible.

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Yeah, in what sense are we “poised” to make a big deal? I’m not seeing it. Maybe if we had cap room...

 

Maybe this means that Friedman is hearing that Caulfield is in play. But even if he is (God forbid), we can’t take back a roster player under the cap, so there’d have to be a contract going back the other way.

 

I’m a skeptic.

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Not a trade ... and a totally out of left-field idea ... sign Brian Boyle to an AHL PTO, see how he looks on the ice at practice, maybe a game, and have the option to sign him to a NHL deal ... 


12. Brian Boyle ... keeps himself in shape for a reason: he wants to continue his 805-game NHL career.“I miss it,” he said. “I didn’t expect it to go this way. When I watch games, I think I can still play with how I feel and how my body feels.” ... Elliotte Friedman's 31 Thoughts

 

No cap impact, no roster impact ... ***if*** it works out and he signs an NHL deal and it could be to go to the taxi squad to have a centre option 

 

EDITED: To correct first three words

 

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Just now, GHT120 said:

Not astride ... and a totally out of left-field idea ... sign Brian Boyle to an AHL PTO, see how he looks on the ice at practice, maybe a game, and have the option to sign him to a NHL deal ... 


12. Brian Boyle ... keeps himself in shape for a reason: he wants to continue his 805-game NHL career.“I miss it,” he said. “I didn’t expect it to go this way. When I watch games, I think I can still play with how I feel and how my body feels.” ... Elliotte Friedman's 31 Thoughts

 

No cap impact, no roster impact ... ***if*** it works out and he signs an NHL deal and it could be to go to the taxi squad to have a centre option 

 

 

Pretty good idea

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3 minutes ago, The Chicoutimi Cucumber said:

Yeah, in what sense are we “poised” to make a big deal? I’m not seeing it. Maybe if we had cap room...

 

Maybe this means that Friedman is hearing that Caulfield is in play. But even if he is (God forbid), we can’t take back a roster player under the cap, so there’d have to be a contract going back the other way.

 

I’m a skeptic.

Exactly ... and there is no reason not consider the possibility.

 

Assuming the habs don't want to use LTIR with Chiarot, Ben's trade wouldn't subtract from the immediate lineup ... Lehkonen& Byron (even Armia possibly), that **could** also be moved to balance cap hits ... it would obviously cost more in assets to move out unpalatable cap-hit (e.g., two more years for Byron), but cap space is itself an asset that can&must be managed ... however, paying to dispose of salary is not useful in-season unless the return is a true "net" upgrade.

 

Using Ekholm as an example ... sending the Preds picks/prospects (plus cap-offsets) to acquire him is not a mere rental situation as he has a year remaining ... if Nashville is trading Ekholm one would assume they are looking to reload/re-build, so another year of Chiarot as a veteran D is perhaps not entirely a contract dump by the Habs ... or they could even look to move Ben to a contender that wants him for the playoffs and would LTIR him until then ... as an RFA Lehkonen would not (IMO) by a dump as he is controlled and has a specific role at the right price ... Byron would be costly but moving him would it would have cap benefits for the next two seasons as well.

 

In addition to Ekholm the Preds have pending UFAs Granlund and Huala that (one or both of which) might be worth considering in a broader deal.

 

None of which is to say it would be easy, or not costly ... and MB is IMO unlikely to consider such a move(s) ... as Chiarot is "his guy" and Byron seems to be a favourite (despite cap manipulation waiver moves that cost Paul nothing) ... so Artturi "Mr. 13th forward" Lehkonen is perhaps the asset most likely to move out.

 

But in a flat-cap world creativity is demanded ... even if just in the make-believe world of trade proposals

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