GDT: Montreal vs Carolina

[KoZed]

Well call me a heretic, but part of me is kind of glad that it's coming to the last game. I know these are all NHL teams and NHL rosters, blah blah, but when is enough enough? If they can't seal the deal against the worst Leafs team since Ballard, then I kind of don't want to see these guys in the playoffs. I'm still having nightmares of last year, I don't want another "hey, at least we made it" moment followed by an embarassement unworthy of this franchise.

I'm almost getting the same feeling... IF and ONLY IF it means Jacques Martin gets sacked in favor of Guy Boucher.

[redondo]

Aaaaargh. I've never disliked a Habs coach this much since... shit, I can't remember ever disliking a Habs coach this much. Even Mario Tremblay who was clueless and knew zero hockey technique wasn't making me feel as hopeless as Martin does. 3 more years of this? Please, God, NOOOOOOOOOOOO!

I was not a fan of Vigneault either. He's grown into a decent coach since, but some of his Habs teams looked just as lost out there as what Martin is serving up. Come to think of it, feels like we've been getting outshot for a decade now, doesn't it?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Colour me rattled.

The unnerving thing is that - for all the understandable ranting and raving going on here and elsewhere by Habs fans - this team has shown a lot of character and bounce-back all year long. They've consistently followed awful efforts with strong efforts. They gutted out wins when they absolutely had to. They overcame crushing injuries.

But for the last few games, they have looked horribly like last season's squad - out of sync, uncommitted, soft.

I don't accept that these guys just don't care or are just plain bad. (The attacks on Martin's system make some sense, but this team also overcame whatever limitations that system put on them - until now). They're playing, right now, some of their worst hockey of the year - atypically bad. (Take Travis Moen. A blood and guts guy who is Mr Reliable. Yet he's totally out to lunch right now). Why?

Strange as it sounds, Pouliot may be one key. When he came over, he really helped, giving us that extra top-6 forward we'd desperately needed. With his game having collapsed, we're back where we were at the start of the season, short a top-6 forward.

Add to that massive slumps infecting the rest of the top-6 and hoo boy, it's a bad mix. I think we're seeing a team of individuals who are suffering from low confidence right now, and it has infected their confidence in each other. The only thing to do is work your way out. Trouble is...who's got time for that? :puke:

Edited April 9, 2010 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[Colin]

I was not a fan of Vigneault either. He's grown into a decent coach since, but some of his Habs teams looked just as lost out there as what Martin is serving up. Come to think of it, feels like we've been getting outshot for a decade now, doesn't it?

Viggy was always a good coach. He had Juha Lind and Johan Witehall in the lineup. Some could argue that he had some of the worst Habs teams ever. Quasi-AHL quality teams. And he still pulled them into the playoffs. Firing him was a bad decision.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Viggy was always a good coach. He had Juha Lind and Johan Witehall in the lineup. Some could argue that he had some of the worst Habs teams ever. Quasi-AHL quality teams. And he still pulled them into the playoffs. Firing him was a bad decision.

100%. And I couldn't figure out why it took him so long to get back in the league.

[lazy26]

I'm almost getting the same feeling... IF and ONLY IF it means Jacques Martin gets sacked in favor of Guy Boucher.

Dare we dream?

[redondo]

Viggy was always a good coach. He had Juha Lind and Johan Witehall in the lineup. Some could argue that he had some of the worst Habs teams ever. Quasi-AHL quality teams. And he still pulled them into the playoffs. Firing him was a bad decision.

His one playoff season was the first one, where he took them to the 2nd round. But look at that roster:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues...0000451998.html

Recchi was at his prime then, so was Saku. Vinny and Corson were not, but were reliable still. Etc. I remember Lind, Whitehall, those guys you're talking about to me symbolize the darkest of depths we had to indure, but we were still several boneheaded moves away from that point in '98. And I remember the year he was nominated for the Adams we were getting killed and outshot in most games - but both Theodore and Hackett stood on their heads more often than not.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

:puke:

I think we will make it in. The Leafs are going to embarrass us on Saturday but the Rangers will loose one of their remaining games.

Too many years we have been in this spot.

[Easy Ryder]

I felt bad for two player last night. Gionta and Plek.

Gio gave all he could, using his body, drive the net. Nobody else done that, just the smallest guy in town did it.

Plek was sitting at the edge of his seat and hoping to get in there, unfornuataley his wingers were awful. He should

have done it himself and say screw the system i am gonna put one in.

All the other players, shame on you. The coach didn't missed all those shaky passes they did. If you can't move the puck

you can't hit and cannot bury goals in PP it's not the coaches fault. I don't like JM but it's not his fault.

Fortunately they have a chance to redeem themselves next game. Not the end of the world, keep on turning and Tiger is back .

[Chris]

Well that was another no show. I agree about Gionta having a good game, i didn't see Pleks do anything, i thought Moore played well. Other then that, another emabarrassing lack of effort. What are they like 3-9 down the stretch here or something.

As sad as it is the Habs playoff hopes rest on Boucher, possibly one of the worst goalies in the league. I have no doubt the Leafs will win tomorrow night, they will simply out work the habs.

I wonder why know one mentioned Halak throwing his hands up saying "can you hang me out to dry any more tonght" If that were Price, every one would be saying how immature he was, how he wasn't a team guy, etc.

[BlueKross]

All the other players, shame on you. The coach didn't missed all those shaky passes they did. If you can't move the puck

you can't hit and cannot bury goals in PP it's not the coaches fault. I don't like JM but it's not his fault.

Fortunately they have a chance to redeem themselves next game. Not the end of the world, keep on turning and Tiger is back .

Actually the fortunes of the Habs are quite predictable. I don't see anything out there that would suggest we are on a different path that we have been for the last decade or so. We collectively hold our breaths again to see if somehow we can back into the playoffs. We will have as much success going forward as the proverbial "blind squirrel". The moves this year have been clearly lateral. The only thing that shines eternal is the hopes of Habs fans. But alas, this team is not very good. We need to STOP our pretending!

[Habsfan]

Even after a good nights sleep, I'm still pissed off at the lack of heart and guts by this team. Absolutely no sense of urgency. You'd think that with 1 point seperating them from a playoff spot, they'd be playing the hardest, fastest and toughest hockey of the season, yet they are floating out there!

[Wamsley01]

His one playoff season was the first one, where he took them to the 2nd round. But look at that roster:

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues...0000451998.html

Recchi was at his prime then, so was Saku. Vinny and Corson were not, but were reliable still. Etc. I remember Lind, Whitehall, those guys you're talking about to me symbolize the darkest of depths we had to indure, but we were still several boneheaded moves away from that point in '98. And I remember the year he was nominated for the Adams we were getting killed and outshot in most games - but both Theodore and Hackett stood on their heads more often than not.

The 1998 team was solid, but he got them to the 2nd round with Andy Moog and a shattered Jocelyn Thibault.

They dominated the Sabres shotwise, but Hasek did his thing and they were swept.

In 2000 they were decimated by injuries and Vigneault managed to keep them on the cusp of the playoffs all year.

Koivu missed close to 60 games, Breezer missed close to 30 games (he had 35 points in 54 games, a 53 pt pace),

Linden missed 30+ games, Savage 40+ games on and on and on. Weird injuries kept occuring. Savage almost breaking

his neck in LA, McCleary taking a shot in the throat against the Flyers etc.

Check for yourself the no-names who made up the roster.

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/leagues...0000452000.html

To mark it down as the goaltenders saving his bacon is disingenuous. The Habs missed the playoffs by 2 points as a loss to the Senators on the final day of the season eliminated them.

Vigneault was and IS a good coach.

Edited April 9, 2010 by Wamsley01

[Wamsley01]

Well that was another no show. I agree about Gionta having a good game, i didn't see Pleks do anything, i thought Moore played well. Other then that, another emabarrassing lack of effort. What are they like 3-9 down the stretch here or something.

As sad as it is the Habs playoff hopes rest on Boucher, possibly one of the worst goalies in the league. I have no doubt the Leafs will win tomorrow night, they will simply out work the habs.

I wonder why know one mentioned Halak throwing his hands up saying "can you hang me out to dry any more tonght" If that were Price, every one would be saying how immature he was, how he wasn't a team guy, etc.

Because the Price hate is irrational and based on disappointment and misplaced anger.

Just looking back on how they lost to the Sens in 2000 in the last game of the season, this might be the 3rd time in 10 seasons in which the Habs needed a win in their final game to make the playoffs. Considering they made it in 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008 and 2009 they have only had two seasons in which they had no playoff shot since 2000.

Glass half full would show that they are a competitive franchise. Unfortunately with the history of this team, scraping into the playoffs is not acceptable and it is becoming clear that the 2008 season was an outlier.

[ForumGhost]

Even after a good nights sleep, I'm still pissed off at the lack of heart and guts by this team. Absolutely no sense of urgency. You'd think that with 1 point seperating them from a playoff spot, they'd be playing the hardest, fastest and toughest hockey of the season, yet they are floating out there!

Haven't you heard? That's all the coaches fault.

[BlueKross]

Haven't you heard? That's all the coaches fault.

I am sure every fan will weigh in on where they think the problem lies. I certianly have expressed my perspectives which as a fan we are entitled to do. I would say that I believe we had better goal tending this year. Let the record speak for itself. We have not moved forward as a team, 1 IOTA. Management obviously was not happy with our Centennial performance, coaching and massive player change. Hopefully they are not happy with this years performance.

[RJP]

Even after a good nights sleep, I'm still pissed off at the lack of heart and guts by this team. Absolutely no sense of urgency. You'd think that with 1 point seperating them from a playoff spot, they'd be playing the hardest, fastest and toughest hockey of the season, yet they are floating out there!

Bang on!! - Let me see, 2 teams playing each other - one has incentive to make the playoffs with just a tie in regulation; the other knows they will not make the playoffs, but has incentive to prevent the other team from making the playoffs as well. So, who should have the greater motivation, drive and character? Unbelievable, anyone in love with this team from other than an emotional standpoint which I understand, is dreaming. With 9 minutes left to play last night, score 3-2 for Carolina, TSN already said the Bruins will be tied with the Habs after tonight. Later in the broadcast, they said the Habs will have to wait until Sunday's Philly-Rangers game to see if they are in the playoffs, already suggesting we will lose to the Leafs on Saturday. We deserve this kind of humiliation, despite McGuire et al being jerks.

[Chris]

Any chance they can call up the entire bulldog team to play tomorrow night?

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Any chance they can call up the entire bulldog team to play tomorrow night?

Actually, watching last night's game, I had the a similar thought. Remember when we called up an entire Bulldog line earlier this season and they energized the entire team? This team, right now, is playing like a team that needs a good shaking up - a lot of the vets apparently need to be told that if they don't perform we have guys who are more than happy to take their spot. Bringing up 3-4 Bulldogs might be just what the doctor ordered, but I don't think you want to do that for Game 82.

[Colin]

I hope the Rangers sweep the 2-game series with the Flyers. I don't want to back in. Time for the Habs to put up or shut up. If they can't win against one of the worst teams, they don't deserve to be there.

[Wamsley01]

I hope the Rangers sweep the 2-game series with the Flyers. I don't want to back in. Time for the Habs to put up or shut up. If they can't win against one of the worst teams, they don't deserve to be there.

If they do sweep the Flyers, the Habs will still be in. The Flyers need a loser point to knock the Habs out.

[dlbalr]

I'm almost getting the same feeling... IF and ONLY IF it means Jacques Martin gets sacked in favor of Guy Boucher.

Not to try and spark a big coaching debate here, but one of the appealing attributes (to most at least) about Martin going into this season was that he finally broke the streak of rookie head coaches with the Habs. 1 year later, do we want to re-start that trend? I'm not saying I would or wouldn't one way or the other but I haven't seen that topic bandied about all that much.

Also, I remain skeptical that Molson will pay 3 NHL head coaches at the same time; I wouldn't get my hopes up hoping for a coaching change unless Boucher moving up as an assistant next season is good enough.

Any chance they can call up the entire bulldog team to play tomorrow night?

They are over the cap and have 1 allowable callup remaining under the CBA...in other words, we're going in with what we have now...now let us all cringe thinking about that and hope the Flyers take care of business tonight.

[brobin]

Wilson said again today that they would like to spoil the Habs playoff hopes and he said a week ago that they hoped Saturday's game would mean something for Montreal. It was suggested on HNIC that they may have rolled over for the rangers as that also hurt montreal.

In any case, I think you are naive if you don't think the would love to get the chance to knock us out of the playoffs.

They sure relished that spoiler role against the Bruins, Flyers and Rangers. They have 2 goals in their last 3 games in their spoiler role.

[Wamsley01]

Wilson said again today that they would like to spoil the Habs playoff hopes and he said a week ago that they hoped Saturday's game would mean something for Montreal. It was suggested on HNIC that they may have rolled over for the rangers as that also hurt montreal.

In any case, I think you are naive if you don't think the would love to get the chance to knock us out of the playoffs.

We will see. Let's see how they react if the Leafs face any deficit in this game. We will see if they decided it is worth it to battle through checks and give second and third efforts, or get ready for the off season because it is easier.

This isn't exactly John Ferguson refusing to have dinner with the other team.

Hyperbole based on a history that is lost on essentially everbody except the teams fanbase and the CBC.

The Leafs and Habs have played exactly ONE mutually important game in the last 30 years, yet the fanbase

thinks they are in the middle of the Yankees and Red Sox.

Edited April 10, 2010 by Wamsley01

[JoeLassister]

We will see. Let's see how they react if the Leafs face any deficit in this game. We will see if they decided it is worth it to battle through checks and give second and third efforts, or get ready for the off season because it is easier.

This isn't exactly John Ferguson refusing to have dinner with the other team.

Hyperbole based on a history that is lost on essentially everbody except the teams fanbase and the CBC.

The Leafs and Habs have played exactly ONE really important game in the last 30 years, yet the fanbase

thinks they are in the middle of the Yankees and Red Sox.

Yeah, it amazes me that people often state Toronto-Montréal as their favourite rivalry. It's okay to hate them just because they are the TML, but calling this a rivalry is a nonsense, as for now. It fits better for Montréal-Boston or Philly.