Jump to content

GDT: Game 5: Montreal vs Pittsburgh


dlbalr

Recommended Posts

1. Crosby whines constantly.

2. Crosby was not the best player for Pitts last year, it was Malkin by a mile.

3. Crosby has been quite silent in this series. Even in the last game, it was Malkin who ultimately stepped up for the Pens.

4. Crosby got one goal in the entire medal round of the playoffs. The winner. Perhaps if he was willing to battle on the boards for the previous 4 games we would not have needed an overtime winner.

You must be conveniently forgetting a good HALF of last year's playoffs when Malkin was playing like he was invisible and wasn't doing anything to help the team. The game where his parents showed up he had a couple and got back going, but it was Sid et al that were keeping the team alive and winning games while Gino was asleep at the wheel.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 92
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

I don't get this...no one ever says...hey it's the HABS making these star players play bad, no respect. It's not why is Crosby playing so bad, it's WHY are the habs playing them so well!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1. Crosby whines constantly.

It is irrelevant. Gretzky was one of the biggest whiners of all-time. It has zero bearing on anything.

If you choose to form an opinion on a player based on his complaining and because the media overhypes him,

you ignore what is actually taking place on the ice.

2. Crosby was not the best player for Pitts last year, it was Malkin by a mile.

Give me a break. Crosby faced the top checking line EVERY team he faced, Malkin got the B-team and finished with a whopping 5 points more. Quite the mile. When Mike Babcock, Paul Maurice, John Stevens and Bruce Boudreau send their top unit against Crosby and not Malkin it says more than your biased filled post.

3. Crosby has been quite silent in this series. Even in the last game, it was Malkin who ultimately stepped up for the Pens.

Really? 3 points in 5 games, 2 of which he scored on the powerplay. He has been invisible for most of the series, yet you choose to credit him with "stepping up" as Crosby "collapses under the pressure". No bias there.

4. Crosby got one goal in the entire medal round of the playoffs. The winner. Perhaps if he was willing to battle on the boards for the previous 4 games we would not have needed an overtime winner.

Do yourself a favour and watch every shift of the Olympics again. He never takes ONE shift off. This is biased filled drivel. Interesting how scoring in OT in the biggest game of the tourney can be used against him though.

So to wrap it up. Crosby chokes under pressure (even though there is overwhelming evidence to the contrary). Malkin steps up and is the better player seeing as he "stepped up in 2010 and was the best player "by far" in 2009", Crosby did nothing in the medal round outside of 1 goal (that won the tournament) and the greats like Gretzky "who whined worse than Crosby" and Lemieux "who whined so much about holding that he retired" could step up in big moments, Crosby doesn't (even though he scored 31 pts in 21 playoff games in a Cup season, has 80 pts in 57 career playoff games, scored the OT winner to win the Olympics, the biggest tournament with the best players in the world, etc etc).

Does that pretty much sum it up? OK then.

Edited by Wamsley01
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2. Crosby was not the best player for Pitts last year, it was Malkin by a mile.

Give me a break. Crosby faced the top checking line EVERY team he faced, Malkin got the B-team and finished with a whopping 5 points more. Quite the mile. When Mike Babcock, Paul Maurice, John Stevens and Bruce Boudreau send their top unit against Crosby and not Malkin it says more than your biased filled post.

3. Crosby has been quite silent in this series. Even in the last game, it was Malkin who ultimately stepped up for the Pens.

Really? 3 points in 5 games, 2 of which he scored on the powerplay. He has been invisible for most of the series, yet you choose to credit him with "stepping up" as Crosby "collapses under the pressure". No bias there.

--Malkin won the Conn Smythe and for good reason. This was far from a surprise - he was the popular choice.

--Over the past two playoff rounds, I would rank the Big Three's effectiveness against Montreal in this order: 1. Ovechkin 2. Malkin 3. Crosby. You said that Malkin does nothing when he isn't scoring but that isn't true. Malkin was dominant last game. He can control the puck in the Montreal zone for long periods at a time.

Even so, saying that Crosby chokes under pressure is ridiculous.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

--Malkin won the Conn Smythe and for good reason. This was far from a surprise - he was the popular choice.

--Over the past two playoff rounds, I would rank the Big Three's effectiveness against Montreal in this order: 1. Ovechkin 2. Malkin 3. Crosby. You said that Malkin does nothing when he isn't scoring but that isn't true. Malkin was dominant last game. He can control the puck in the Montreal zone for long periods at a time.

Even so, saying that Crosby chokes under pressure is ridiculous.

I used to put a lot of importance on the Conn Smythe trophy, but it is voted on by the press,

the same press that was trying to sell Chris Osgood as a Smythe contender last season.

If Detroit had won, he would have had a lot of votes and it would have been absurd.

Just because he won it doesn't convince me that he was the best player in the playoffs.

Controlling the puck in the offensive zone is still only half the ice.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Game 7 will lend a lot of weight to either sides argument of Crosby choke or no choke. I can see both sides argument. I really just believe the habs are doing a masterful job containing the heavys for the Pens...and even the habs own fans aren't giving them credit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Game 7 will lend a lot of weight to either sides argument of Crosby choke or no choke. I can see both sides argument. I really just believe the habs are doing a masterful job containing the heavys for the Pens...and even the habs own fans aren't giving them credit.

One game does not define a reputation. If it did Crosby would never be labelled a choker after the

gold medal game.

One needs to remove the blinders of hate to assess the player. In Montreal we treat Price and Pouliot

as works in progress, Crosby is younger than Pouliot and a week older than Price. Yet he has done

things in his career that neither may accomplish in their lifetime.

Would we define Steve Yzerman as a choke artist? Through 1996 when Yzerman was 29 years old he

had won zero Stanley Cups, he made one final and had 1 point in 4 games, was cut from the 1987 and 1991

Canada Cup teams and had lead a high seed to multiple upset losses. Through the end of his career he put

up 13 points in 16 Stanley Cup Finals games. Choker? Of course not, you will view Yzerman through his latter

half of his career when he won 3 cups and an olympic medal and was regarded as one of the greatest captains

of all time. Yet a rush to judgement would leave you with a 180 degree view of his career.

The Sidney Crosby nonsense is born of hate for an opponent, hate for whining and is essentially a rationalization

to defend the hate of an individual. If you look for reasons to dislike somebody they will magically arise. If you

ignore positives to accentuate negatives, guess what? You will find negatives.

So Malkin winning the Conn Smythe justifies the hate one harbours. Individuals relish in him not producing

in the medal round and get irritated when he is defined as the hero because of an OT goal. This allows for the

definition of choker because it is the label that has already been decided upon to discredit.

Take his career and put it into historical context against all the greats through the age of 22. You will not find many

players who can match it, yet we are talking about the youngest MVP, the youngest captain of a Cup champion etc being villified as a choker?

If he played for the Canadiens NOBODY on this board would label him as a choker. NOBODY.

The conversation is absurd.

Edited by Wamsley01
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did not say it was the cut and dried final decision, but there is SUCH a small sample size, that each instance of pressure has to sway one side or the other.

This is a silly argument anyway, there's not enough data, the bigger argument is to be made for Ovekchin being a choker, although...I hope Crosby chokes out on Wednesday night.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I did not say it was the cut and dried final decision, but there is SUCH a small sample size, that each instance of pressure has to sway one side or the other.

This is a silly argument anyway, there's not enough data, the bigger argument is to be made for Ovekchin being a choker, although...I hope Crosby chokes out on Wednesday night.

This mindset would label Cammalleri a choker if the Habs win the Cup, but he only scores

2 goals in the next 2 rounds. Or if the Habs played the Bruins and Halak had a .897 SV%

in a 6 game loss. It essentially sways everything we have witnessed up to now as moot.

Would they then be chokers?

To label Crosby a choker because he has 9 points in 13 Stanley Cup Finals games ignores

his 70+ points in the other 9 rounds he played in the post season. Who draws this line?

It seems to me that if one chooses to draw it wherever it fits their argument that the argument

can be created at any place and any time regardless of accomplishments.

Edited by Wamsley01
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I think it's way to early either way to say if Crosby is a choker or not.

I can understand that, but if 81 points in 58 playoff games and an Olympic OT winner

isn't going to get it done, what will?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The anti-Crosby argument is ridiculous. The kid is a great player who has already won everything it's possible to win. Yes, his whining is irritating; what's that got to do with his irrefutable on-ice achievements?

While there is a legitimate debate to be had about who is the greater player (Ovechkin, Crosby, perhaps Malkin), the hate-on that so many fans have for Crosby is not explicable in any rational terms. I think what really drives them crazy is the same thing that drove people crazy about Gretzky when he was first coming up: the squeaky-clean, wholesome Canadian Boy image. It's like he's Mr. Perfect, and that drives some people crazy.

It also doesn't help that Crosby's game is, in part, a cerebral game, based less on spectacular individual play than using the whole ice and his teammates.

The loathing for the Good Team Kid is the only explanation for why people just looooove Ovechkin, who so far in his career is a certified loser, and Malkin, who has basically profited from playing in Crosby's wake, yet want to brand Crosby with ridiculous labels like 'Cindy' and 'Choker.'

The kid is a brilliant player. Period.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The anti-Crosby argument is ridiculous. The kid is a great player who has already won everything it's possible to win. Yes, his whining is irritating; what's that got to do with his irrefutable on-ice achievements?

While there is a legitimate debate to be had about who is the greater player (Ovechkin, Crosby, perhaps Malkin), the hate-on that so many fans have for Crosby is not explicable in any rational terms. I think what really drives them crazy is the same thing that drove people crazy about Gretzky when he was first coming up: the squeaky-clean, wholesome Canadian Boy image. It's like he's Mr. Perfect, and that drives some people crazy.

It also doesn't help that Crosby's game is, in part, a cerebral game, based less on spectacular individual play than using the whole ice and his teammates.

The loathing for the Good Team Kid is the only explanation for why people just looooove Ovechkin, who so far in his career is a certified loser, and Malkin, who has basically profited from playing in Crosby's wake, yet want to brand Crosby with ridiculous labels like 'Cindy' and 'Choker.'

The kid is a brilliant player. Period.

We are two. I completely agree with you. Crosby is a class act. He has the right to "whine" to the official.. he is the captain and it's his job, part of the game.

An example of his extraordinary talent in last game what his play on Guerin's goal. He didn't record a point and went totally unnoticed but the play he made shows just how smart he is. He was open right in front of Goligoski to take a pass, but he took himself out of the play and screened the Habs defender in the process so that Goligoski can realize Gonchar was open behind him and had a clear shot to the net, which was deflected in by Guerin.. brillant.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I can understand that, but if 81 points in 58 playoff games and an Olympic OT winner

isn't going to get it done, what will?

Look at Ovekchins body of work, what would your conclusions be?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

We are two. I completely agree with you. Crosby is a class act. He has the right to "whine" to the official.. he is the captain and it's his job, part of the game.

An example of his extraordinary talent in last game what his play on Guerin's goal. He didn't record a point and went totally unnoticed but the play he made shows just how smart he is. He was open right in front of Goligoski to take a pass, but he took himself out of the play and screened the Habs defender in the process so that Goligoski can realize Gonchar was open behind him and had a clear shot to the net, which was deflected in by Guerin.. brillant.

I disagree with your class act of Crosby, off the ice he says and does the right things. I have no respect for his actions ON the ice. End of the game, he cross checks Plek, nothing is made of it...Price shoots a puck into a crowd of players after a goal and people act like he committed murder. Crosby gets away with too much cause everyone buys into the good guy mentality. I would kill to have him on my team, but this class act bullshit needs to end. Stevie Y was a class act, Crosby is still young and with age maybe these acts will dissipate.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Look at Ovekchins body of work, what would your conclusions be?

It certainly isn't that he is a choker. What I see is a player who needs to sacrifice individual merit

for the team in order to achieve his goals.

Unfortunately for him he plays with 2 other players who also have not made the same sacrifice in

Green and Semin. Ovechkin may land in a situation that allows him to succeed without changing

a thing (surrounded by the right players), that remains to be seen.

Ovechkin was trying his ass off against the Habs, but all of his focus was on half the battle.

While breaking down the goals with Robert from Eyes on the Prize, the amount of goals where he either

was too late getting back on coverage or making an early line change were shocking. He probably saved

himself about 3 to 4 minuses based on leaving the ice 5-6 seconds before a goal.

I think he could be the best player in the league, it is just a matter of wether he will sacrifice to do so.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The anti-Crosby argument is ridiculous. The kid is a great player who has already won everything it's possible to win. Yes, his whining is irritating; what's that got to do with his irrefutable on-ice achievements?

While there is a legitimate debate to be had about who is the greater player (Ovechkin, Crosby, perhaps Malkin), the hate-on that so many fans have for Crosby is not explicable in any rational terms. I think what really drives them crazy is the same thing that drove people crazy about Gretzky when he was first coming up: the squeaky-clean, wholesome Canadian Boy image. It's like he's Mr. Perfect, and that drives some people crazy.

It also doesn't help that Crosby's game is, in part, a cerebral game, based less on spectacular individual play than using the whole ice and his teammates.

The loathing for the Good Team Kid is the only explanation for why people just looooove Ovechkin, who so far in his career is a certified loser, and Malkin, who has basically profited from playing in Crosby's wake, yet want to brand Crosby with ridiculous labels like 'Cindy' and 'Choker.'

The kid is a brilliant player. Period.

+1

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It certainly isn't that he is a choker. What I see is a player who needs to sacrifice individual merit

for the team in order to achieve his goals.

Unfortunately for him he plays with 2 other players who also have not made the same sacrifice in

Green and Semin. Ovechkin may land in a situation that allows him to succeed without changing

a thing (surrounded by the right players), that remains to be seen.

Ovechkin was trying his ass off against the Habs, but all of his focus was on half the battle.

While breaking down the goals with Robert from Eyes on the Prize, the amount of goals where he either

was too late getting back on coverage or making an early line change were shocking. He probably saved

himself about 3 to 4 minuses based on leaving the ice 5-6 seconds before a goal.

I think he could be the best player in the league, it is just a matter of wether he will sacrifice to do so.

Ovie played right into the Habs hands, they had his game plan all figured out. Part of being clutch is know when to NOT do everything yourself. Like you've said Wammy, you can put any kind of spin onto stats/facts, since being a choker is not something you can quantify, it's purely subjective.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...