Auld to Montreal

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

no - no it isn't .

that analogy isn't even close.

Sigh...you guys are taking me far too literally. My bad.

All I'm saying is, you go from a situation where you have high-level depth at a key position, to a situation where your team is critically dependent on a player who has not yet demonstrated that he can do what you absolutely need him to do. That is an unnecessary risk for excessively high stakes IMHO. PM Koivu called this 'all in' strategy on Price a 'shrewd move.' I think his poker analogy proves exactly the opposite.

It could work all out. But it's quite a dangerous risk, and the risk probably could have been mitigated considerably. But hey, if you want to make yourself feel better by pretending that Price is a proven elite netminder, be my guest.

[bar]

Lots of teams deal in risk, Chicago went with unproven goalie, Philly...they are the poster team for unproven goalies. I've said all last season that Price had received a raw deal, and I am quite happy to risk Price if the money saved can help us get a top 6 forward. Remeber we can add a top 6 forward part way through the year and at the deadline $500k-$1m free capspace is really $2m.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Lots of teams deal in risk, Chicago went with unproven goalie, Philly...they are the poster team for unproven goalies. I've said all last season that Price had received a raw deal, and I am quite happy to risk Price if the money saved can help us get a top 6 forward. Remeber we can add a top 6 forward part way through the year and at the deadline $500k-$1m free capspace is really $2m.

Well, like I said to BTH somewhere, if we do upgrade at FW I'll feel a bit happier about the downgrade at G. All we have so far is a net loss. (No pun intended). It's very early though.

[Prime Minister Koivu]

Sigh...you guys are taking me far too literally. My bad.

All I'm saying is, you go from a situation where you have high-level depth at a key position, to a situation where your team is critically dependent on a player who has not yet demonstrated that he can do what you absolutely need him to do. That is an unnecessary risk for excessively high stakes IMHO. PM Koivu called this 'all in' strategy on Price a 'shrewd move.' I think his poker analogy proves exactly the opposite.

It could work all out. But it's quite a dangerous risk, and the risk probably could have been mitigated considerably. But hey, if you want to make yourself feel better by pretending that Price is a proven elite netminder, be my guest.

I agree that this is indeed a very high risk move. I'm suggesting that Price may need an unchallenged chance at the helm and PG needs to make a long term decision. A one year risk to make that evaluation. If Price fails then next year changes will be made, hopefully with long term thinking involved.

Things might be much simpler than this. Perhaps PG believes 100% that Price is ready to be an elite goalie.

[Habsy]

Forget the analogies, the word games, the spinning of facts and figures and opinions. We're weaker at the goaltending position, and that's about all there is to it. All the reasons for the trade of Halak have been beaten to death, we all get it. And I've been a Price supporter from the start. I hope this works. And I'd feel better if the money saved by signing Auld get's us some help in other areas.

[Dalhabs]

Well, like I said to BTH somewhere, if we do upgrade at FW I'll feel a bit happier about the downgrade at G. All we have so far is a net loss. (No pun intended). It's very early though.

Id like us to pick up a top 6 forward as well.. at least a top 9 with size and grit would be nice. Id kill to have Milan Lucic on the habs as a third line winger.

[l<OV4L3V]

this move makes no sense to me...the EV out of Auld might be ok if you have a proven goalie, but c'mon!...Price has had one solid year so far. Not only that; the guy is going up a 82 day frozen creek without a paddle if he starts to struggle, the media will pick on him like vultures. IMO, I don't think this was a wise move by any means unless JM intends on going back to a firewagon hockey system, which I do NOT foresee coming in the near future. So with that being said, GL Price, your going to need it with all the rubber you face next season.

[Dalhabs]

So I guess losing our leading scorer to free agency (Plekanec) was to prefer and then keep Halak for another year and then decide to keep one? It was decide now or lose Plekanec. Guess that would have meant Lapierre or Boyd would be top two centerman... yeah, great idea.

[revvvrob]

thing is - with the cap system, i don't really think a top team can afford to have 2 well paid goalies. u just don't want millions of dollars wrapped up in someone who is guaranteed to be on the bench all the time. pay your starter and go cheap on the backup.

Price & Halak together was not like having 2 top centers, where we COULD use both at the same time on occasion. one had to go.

for better or for worse, it was decided that in the long-run, Price has the greater ceiling. i agree with that assessment. if it's wrong, PG is gone. if it's correct, we now have the opportunity for a Stanley Cup run again in 2010-2011 because Halak's money is being distributed to address other weaknesses.

the debate over whether or not Halak or Price will have a better future is a valid one.

the debate over whether Halak's dollars are being distributed wisely is a valid one.

the debate over whether Auld is a cheap, serviceable backup is silly, IMO. he is cheap at 1 mil. the contract is the right length at 1 year. and he is better than an AHL goalie and not good enough to be an NHL starter (cuz if he were, as UFA, he would have held out for more years or more money or both)

Auld isn't great. he isn't supposed to be. he just needs to play a game now and then to give Price a break. heck, Price is already used to playing against the tougher opposition, so giving Auld the cream-puff teams like the Maples shouldn't be any big deal to Carey!

MAY ALEX HAVE A WONDERFUL 9 MONTHS TENURE AS BACKUP GOALIE FOR OUR BELOVED MONTREAL CANADIENS!!!

:ghg:

[Habsy]

So I guess losing our leading scorer to free agency (Plekanec) was to prefer and then keep Halak for another year and then decide to keep one? It was decide now or lose Plekanec. Guess that would have meant Lapierre or Boyd would be top two centerman... yeah, great idea.

Who's that comment for? we all know that anyway. why is it so difficult to understand, we're weaker at the goalie position? had to be done, yes.

[BTH]

thing is - with the cap system, i don't really think a top team can afford to have 2 well paid goalies. u just don't want millions of dollars wrapped up in someone who is guaranteed to be on the bench all the time. pay your starter and go cheap on the backup.

I agree with your post but...

The Habs will have two goalies being paid like back ups. I definitely think two 1Bs in Price (1.75) and Ellis (1.5) is preferable to a 1B and a clear back up in Price (1.75) and Auld (1) and would still leave us with the cap space needed to fill out the rest of the roster.

If the first goalie was Halak (4.5M) then I could understand the great need to pinch pennies with your back up goalie.

[JacksonJ]

I agree with your post but...

The Habs will have two goalies being paid like back ups. I definitely think two 1Bs in Price (1.75) and Ellis (1.5) is preferable to a 1B and a clear back up in Price (1.75) and Auld (1) and would still leave us with the cap space needed to fill out the rest of the roster.

If the first goalie was Halak (4.5M) then I could understand the great need to pinch pennies with your back up goalie.

ELLIS WANTED TO START!!! People need to realize he wanted a chance to start and we wanted Carey to be our guy. Move on. It doesn't matter if he only signed for 500k more if he didn't want to sign here. Auld will be fine in his limited playing time.

[BCHabnut]

Soooo...ummm...ya. Auld is bum!

[sakiqc]

Right. And risking both Price's future and the success of the Habs' entire season in the process.

It's akin to ditching Markov and replacing him with Niinimaa because you want to find out whether Subban can be a legitimate #1 defenceman in the NHL. 'All in,' yes. Smart? No.

You see convinced Price will fail. After 3 years he has already proved to be a solid NHL goaltender. If he doesn't finish in the top 5 in GAA and SPCT, so what? Are we expecting Cammalleri and Plekanec to be in the top 5 of the league in scoring? It's not like if Price never played in the league. It will be his 4TH YEAR!!!

As revv pointed out, the analogy with Subban is not fair. He hasn't played a season yet in the NHL. And still, with the performance he gave last playoffs, there's no doubting he will be as good if not better than Markov before long.

[revvvrob]

ELLIS WANTED TO START!!! People need to realize he wanted a chance to start and we wanted Carey to be our guy. Move on. It doesn't matter if he only signed for 500k more if he didn't want to sign here. Auld will be fine in his limited playing time.

exactly.

also - Ellis got 2 years. what happens to Cedric in 2011-2012 when he is ready to be an NHL backup (or push Carey if giving him the 'undisputed #1' role didn't work.

I think the 1 year was also important here - for Desjardins' sake.

[sakiqc]

I agree with your post but...

The Habs will have two goalies being paid like back ups. I definitely think two 1Bs in Price (1.75) and Ellis (1.5) is preferable to a 1B and a clear back up in Price (1.75) and Auld (1) and would still leave us with the cap space needed to fill out the rest of the roster.

If the first goalie was Halak (4.5M) then I could understand the great need to pinch pennies with your back up goalie.

I don't think Auld is an upgrade on Sanford.

I am convinced that the reason they brought Auld was for the sole purpose of helping Price getting in his grove and getting better. Auld has history with Martin and Groulx so the adjustment will be quick for him in Montreal. I don't know much about Auld, but if Martin and Groulx promoted him to Gauthier, it must be because he is a good and sound professionnal.

If they didn't gave up on Sanford, it might be because they want him as backup once Auld's job is done and Price is solidly launch to space.

[dlbalr]

I think the 1 year was also important here - for Desjardins' sake.

I'd agree if it weren't for Sanford signing. At the time, his deal made him the highest paid goalie in the AHL (now the 2nd highest), you don't give an AHL backup that much money. I'm starting to wonder about his future now actually.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

ELLIS WANTED TO START!!! People need to realize he wanted a chance to start and we wanted Carey to be our guy. Move on. It doesn't matter if he only signed for 500k more if he didn't want to sign here. Auld will be fine in his limited playing time.

I imagine that Auld will be serviceable in his 20 games or whatever. The question is whether Price will excel in his 60. He certainly might. Then again he might not. He's never done that before at this level. Nor have his playoffs been reassuring. So, as I say, it's a leap of faith. The season now rests on a 'work in progress' who, if he falters, is at grave risk of being ripped to shreds by media and fans.

As for Ellis, he is now going to compete with Mike Smith for starting time, so I'd guess that - assuming that Habs just weren't penny-pinching - the key variable was that Tampa told him the best performer would get the starts, while Montreal told him they wanted him to 'help Price.' (Which is apparently how they pitched the job to Auld). Conversely, it's possible that Smith calculated he'd have a better chance to get starts in a fair fight with Smith rather than Price; in which case Price comes out looking pretty good. I sure hope it's the latter, because I do not understand why the best performer would NOT get the starts.

(The two-year term for Ellis cannot have been the deal-breaker. If Desjardins is ready next season - and Price has finally put together a compelling, consistent season - then you move Ellis, that's all).

On balance, BTH seems to be right. We probably could have had Ellis but chose not to.

[hab29RETIRED]

I imagine that Auld will be serviceable in his 20 games or whatever. The question is whether Price will excel in his 60. He certainly might. Then again he might not. He's never done that before at this level. Nor have his playoffs been reassuring. So, as I say, it's a leap of faith. The season now rests on a 'work in progress' who, if he falters, is at grave risk of being ripped to shreds by media and fans.

As for Ellis, he is now going to compete with Mike Smith for starting time, so I'd guess that - assuming that Habs just weren't penny-pinching - the key variable was that Tampa told him the best performer would get the starts, while Montreal told him they wanted him to 'help Price.' (Which is apparently how they pitched the job to Auld). Conversely, it's possible that Smith calculated he'd have a better chance to get starts in a fair fight with Smith rather than Price; in which case Price comes out looking pretty good. I sure hope it's the latter, because I do not understand why the best performer would NOT get the starts.

(The two-year term for Ellis cannot have been the deal-breaker. If Desjardins is ready next season - and Price has finally put together a compelling, consistent season - then you move Ellis, that's all).

On balance, BTH seems to be right. We probably could have had Ellis but chose not to.

Auld has been on what 8 teams??? I doubt if much salesmanship was required. Basically, someone was willing to offer him a contract and he jumped at it. Hedberg would have been a better bet and was cheaper. I'm worried that the $500K they wouldn't offer over 2 years is going to bite them. Hell, if they signed Ellis, there was no need to pay Stanford $500k.

[BTH]

ELLIS WANTED TO START!!! People need to realize he wanted a chance to start and we wanted Carey to be our guy. Move on. It doesn't matter if he only signed for 500k more if he didn't want to sign here. Auld will be fine in his limited playing time.

I realize this. I didn't blame Gauthier for not signing an unwilling Ellis, I'm just saying that this isn't the ideal situation. I also don't think the 500K difference in pay had much to do with pinching pennies, it was just about getting the #2 guy on our list after Ellis signed in TB.

[ALBERTAHABSFAN]

1 year, 1 mil.

Let's see if Cedrick Desjardins gets a shot at backing up Price this year.

Also wonder if habs might look at Mike Modano. He's 6'3'' a good 2 way 3rd line centre with reasonable speed and skill for his age. Could sign him for 1.5-2 mill for 1 year.

[JacksonJ]

Let's see if Cedrick Desjardins gets a shot at backing up Price this year.

Also wonder if habs might look at Mike Modano. He's 6'3'' a good 2 way 3rd line centre with reasonable speed and skill for his age. Could sign him for 1.5-2 mill for 1 year.

Actually Modano isn't a bad idea. In a pretty weak UFA class where we don't have a lot of cap room it wouldn't be the worst thing if we signed a quick-fix for one year and try again next year when Gill and Hammer's contracts come off the books.

[Sir_Boagalott]

Has anybody heard a reasoning for not signing Biron? He signed with the Rangers for cheaper than we got Auld. I would consider Biron the better goalie and the obvious french-Canadian connection is there as well.

Umm yep, I have a fairly good idea on why not. Have you ever heard Biron talk aboot the Habs in interviews? He loathes the Habs and he's not exactly shy aboot it from what I've seen in several interviews. Biron is an old school hardcore Nordiques fan.

tbh if Biron made any comments at all I bet he was doing it just to be a shit disturber like Avery. Biron totally knows that by saying there was "no offer at all" it will start a controversy amung the francophones that doesnt exist because Biron would never acept anyway. Biron has literally cheered against the Habs his whole life.

[sakiqc]

THe Poll on the front page has "Are you happy with the acquisition of Alex Auld ?"

Yes - Cheap option and no more goalie controversy 56%

No - They could have get a better option at that price 44%

From memory this must be one of the closest Poll we've had on HW.

It will probably change once we get Gauthier + Martin + Groulx reasoning behind this, and how they intend to deal with Sanford and Desjardins.

[Habsfan84]

Actually Modano isn't a bad idea. In a pretty weak UFA class where we don't have a lot of cap room it wouldn't be the worst thing if we signed a quick-fix for one year and try again next year when Gill and Hammer's contracts come off the books.

Does he still have alot of game left in him though?