Jump to content

Price's contract talks


dlbalr

Price's contract  

32 members have voted

  1. 1. Which term is better, considering a longer term = longer cap hit?

    • 1 year
      2
    • 2 years
      12
    • 3 years
      8
    • 4 years
      5
    • 5 or more years
      5


Recommended Posts

In hte cap world, it appears that long term contracts for goalies are going the way of the dodo bird. I tend to agree with Wamsley on the playoff goalie theory. When was the last time a goalie stole a cup? I guess you could argue that Ward won the conn smythe and therefore he was the reason Carolina won. The only guys in the last 20 years that I can think of are Brodeur and Roy. Brodeur had powerhouse names like Stevens, Rafalski, Elias at his prime, Gomez, Gionta, Madden (one of the best shut down centres in recent NHL) , Joe Nieuwendyk, Scott Niedermayer... Holy crap! The goalie that won the conne smythe that year was Giguere. He did not win the cup for his team. I would argue that Brodeur did not win the cup for his team either. Look at the team! I would argue that the only goalie to actually win it for his team in my lifetime was Patrick Roy in 1993, and maybe Brodeur in 94/95. The rest of the great goalie playoff performances resulted in not winning the cup. I'm not saying that you shouldn't pay big money for goalies, but Montreal fans are too used to having a great goalie bail them out, and then we are the first to blame a loss on the goalie and boo them out of town.

I would rather pay price reasonable money for two or three years and reavaluate. As I said. If he is worth big money long term...where are the offer sheets? there are none.

Sounds fair.

Yet an offer sheet is just sheet ^_^ without a signature

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 126
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

In hte cap world, it appears that long term contracts for goalies are going the way of the dodo bird. I tend to agree with Wamsley on the playoff goalie theory. When was the last time a goalie stole a cup? I guess you could argue that Ward won the conn smythe and therefore he was the reason Carolina won. The only guys in the last 20 years that I can think of are Brodeur and Roy. Brodeur had powerhouse names like Stevens, Rafalski, Elias at his prime, Gomez, Gionta, Madden (one of the best shut down centres in recent NHL) , Joe Nieuwendyk, Scott Niedermayer... Holy crap! The goalie that won the conne smythe that year was Giguere. He did not win the cup for his team. I would argue that Brodeur did not win the cup for his team either. Look at the team! I would argue that the only goalie to actually win it for his team in my lifetime was Patrick Roy in 1993, and maybe Brodeur in 94/95. The rest of the great goalie playoff performances resulted in not winning the cup. I'm not saying that you shouldn't pay big money for goalies, but Montreal fans are too used to having a great goalie bail them out, and then we are the first to blame a loss on the goalie and boo them out of town.

I would rather pay price reasonable money for two or three years and reavaluate. As I said. If he is worth big money long term...where are the offer sheets? there are none.

Price can't be signed to an offer sheet. The CBA is over my head, but I think it's because he was given his qualifying offer? A little help, Brian?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Price can't be signed to an offer sheet. The CBA is over my head, but I think it's because he was given his qualifying offer? A little help, Brian?

All RFA's are given their qualifying offers. Only RFA's going through the arbitration process are exempt from offer sheets; Price can sign one if he so desires. I (and the Habs) suspect Price won't sign one - there were rumblings a while back that he turned one down from SJ actually.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Oh...so an offer sheet is not made public unless the player accepts..is that the rule? So there could be lots of offer sheets we never hear of.

Exactly. I have no doubts there's at least a dozen offer sheets offered to various RFA's each summer. Rarely though are they signed.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another question...is an offer sheet made by another team made known to the team of the player the offer is made to? Or is the offer done through the players agent?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

All RFA's are given their qualifying offers. Only RFA's going through the arbitration process are exempt from offer sheets; Price can sign one if he so desires. I (and the Habs) suspect Price won't sign one - there were rumblings a while back that he turned one down from SJ actually.

Thanks for the clarification.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Another question...is an offer sheet made by another team made known to the team of the player the offer is made to? Or is the offer done through the players agent?

When the sheet is signed by the player, it gets filed with the league and everyone hears about it (such as Hjalmarsson's this month). Aside from that, GM's can give each other a heads-up that a sheet is being negotiated but it's not required (the Burke/Lowe yapping focused on that very premise). Negotiating is done through the agent as always.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I always thought the keeping Price over Halak debate was that you couldn't afford both not that Price was going to be pennies on the dollar compared to Halak. Price was an all-star two years ago, most seem to forget. Last season they lost their best player to injury in first game of the season, and Price played the bulk of his games while the team was trying to gel amongst the largest shakeup in hockey team history, where as Halaks numbers in my opinion padded by being the back up and playing the weaker teams. Even when Price had starts later in the season he was thrown to the Caps, Sharks, etc the better teams. This day in age we always want the player to show loyalty when clubs do not, I would love to see a long term deal to prevent any headache that could happen in a couple years, if he plays great, the money will be costy.

You raise a good point about loyalty. What loyalty do any of us fans have to anyone on the team?

Again. I'm glad I'm not the GM, general manager, or a car corporation.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

When the sheet is signed by the player, it gets filed with the league and everyone hears about it (such as Hjalmarsson's this month). Aside from that, GM's can give each other a heads-up that a sheet is being negotiated but it's not required (the Burke/Lowe yapping focused on that very premise). Negotiating is done through the agent as always.

cheers buddy :)

i wasnt too sure of thhat one question

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An interesting tidbit - for those who may have noticed, my Price article was mentioned on HIO today. That article as you may have read had my claims (based on what I heard) as Price wanting 3 years and around $3 million and the Habs countering with 2 years at (my speculation here), $4.5 - $5 million. This statement was included in Mike Boone's posting.

Now, CKAC is reporting that the Gazette is reporting that Price wants 3 years around $3 million and the Habs are countering with 2 years somewhere between $4.5 and $5 million. Now what I know what it feels like to have my work attributed to someone else. I want my credit! :)

Peu d'informations ont filtré sur les négociations entre Carey Price et le Canadien. Mais à en croire les informations de The Gazette, les deux parties sont loin d'avoir trouvé un terrain d'entente.

Selon les spéculations du quotidien montréalais, Price voudrait un contrat de trois ans pour environ 3 millions de $ par saison. La direction du CH préférerait signer une entente de deux ans d'une valeur comprise entre 4,5 et 5 millions de $.

http://www.ckac.com/hockey/nouvelles/a-sen...rice-24082.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I assume you mean the habs want him to sign at 2.25-2.5/yr. Is the 500k really that much of a sticking point...or the three years? I assume the habs wont Price available more in his RFA years?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

An interesting tidbit - for those who may have noticed, my Price article was mentioned on HIO today. That article as you may have read had my claims (based on what I heard) as Price wanting 3 years and around $3 million and the Habs countering with 2 years at (my speculation here), $4.5 - $5 million. This statement was included in Mike Boone's posting.

Now, CKAC is reporting that the Gazette is reporting that Price wants 3 years around $3 million and the Habs are countering with 2 years somewhere between $4.5 and $5 million. Now what I know what it feels like to have my work attributed to someone else. I want my credit! :)

http://www.ckac.com/hockey/nouvelles/a-sen...rice-24082.html

Just to mention that you were quoted in an article from Spornographe (hockey/sports humorists, usually very funny) saying that CKAC quoted the Gazette who quoted a "blogueur dans son sous-sol" (basement blogger, yourself) and that the negociations with Carey Price are not going very well...

To be noted also that I found out about that on Facebook, and that I picked your side, linking them your cap calculator to show them the work you're putting into it.

http://sportnographe.radio-canada.ca/ca-se...ontent=FaceBook

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alright, its been too long and its time for me to weigh in here. Price will be signed soon. I agree with Brian in that once the Kovalchuk situation is settled and teams begin to round out their rosters the Habs will sign him for the type of contract that fits the situation at that time. Have patience people.

:hlogo:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Exactly. I have no doubts there's at least a dozen offer sheets offered to various RFA's each summer. Rarely though are they signed.

Yep, I remember when Zach Parise was a RFA, and it took a few weeks for him to sign, he publicly said during the negotiations that he wasn't going to sign any offer sheet. I'm sure there are others who get offers that don't think it's worth the bother.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I assume you mean the habs want him to sign at 2.25-2.5/yr. Is the 500k really that much of a sticking point...or the three years? I assume the habs wont Price available more in his RFA years?

$500,000 can go a long way over the course of a season from a team's cap perspective. That could be the difference between doing nothing at the trade deadline and adding a $2 M player with that much left on his contract. As for term, it does make a difference. Though I'm sure the Habs have confidence in him, they're not certain he will rebound - they hope he will, they think he will, but given his performance last year, it's not a given. That's why they prefer short term, that and the lower cap hit (buying out fewer arbitration years).

I would assume their point of view is sign him for 2 years, if he performs to his high expectations, then lock him up for 4 seasons at that point (probably for something starting with a 4), buying out a couple UFA years in the process (but he's still an RFA at that time). If he doesn't pan out, it's an easier contract to try to move (long term deals for struggling players aren't easy to move obviously). The Habs are in risky situation no matter what, going short term mitigates the risk though.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...

How much cap space do the habs have available in order to sign Carey Price? Now that Chicago had to part with their stanley cup goaltender due to arbitration worth an estimated 2.7 million dollars raises the question as to how much is Carey Price really worth? Carey Price won only 7 games for us last year that's including the first 2 games of the season until Halak came in and saved us from that fall. I'm just trying to look at the hard facts and from that perspective Carey Price should not be arguing for more money in fact he should be greatful for whatever he can get due to his performance. If Catrey Price and his agent is too tough on negotiations then I agree that the habs should strongly consider signing Neimi and turn a new page. :clap:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How much cap space do the habs have available in order to sign Carey Price? Now that Chicago had to part with their stanley cup goaltender due to arbitration worth an estimated 2.7 million dollars raises the question as to how much is Carey Price really worth? Carey Price won only 7 games for us last year that's including the first 2 games of the season until Halak came in and saved us from that fall. I'm just trying to look at the hard facts and from that perspective Carey Price should not be arguing for more money in fact he should be greatful for whatever he can get due to his performance. If Catrey Price and his agent is too tough on negotiations then I agree that the habs should strongly consider signing Neimi and turn a new page. :clap:

I wish there was a facepalm emoticon. The fact Chicago felt that Turco was a better fit for their club doesn't phase you one bit? You bring up 7 games Price won last season, scoot over to the other thread about Price and read the stats on how he got there...wins are a team based stat, not a stat that should be heavily weighted in negotations. Players and teams, negotiate all the time...Price is 22 for gods sake, these are the kind of posts that make me fear for the future of the habs fandom.

Price has NO options...it seems Price wants a shorter contract, the habs want a longer one. Maybe the habs are trying to low ball him at less than $2m a year. Would YOU take the reigns of this fanatical fanned team for less than that? You, who will be the lightning rod for everything bad in this team. It's easy for us to say, "hey take low money and prove it", well what IF Price does take $1m per year for three years, and the first two years is the top goalie in the league, would the team say "hey, you've been real great and cheap..lets give you more money for that third year", no..thats not how it works. More term eats up more years of RFAness of Price, so if you want term, you have to pay for it.

We all look at what Chicago had this year and were amazed at their talent, and then reality set in, they were playing with $70m+ in players at a cap for $55m. Young players are expected to tow the line, take small paying contracts AND produce in the new NHL. The expectations on these young players around the league are not matching what they're paid, and ANYTIME a player wants decent compensation they get called greedy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wish there was a facepalm emoticon. The fact Chicago felt that Turco was a better fit for their club doesn't phase you one bit? You bring up 7 games Price won last season, scoot over to the other thread about Price and read the stats on how he got there...wins are a team based stat, not a stat that should be heavily weighted in negotations. Players and teams, negotiate all the time...Price is 22 for gods sake, these are the kind of posts that make me fear for the future of the habs fandom.

Price has NO options...it seems Price wants a shorter contract, the habs want a longer one. Maybe the habs are trying to low ball him at less than $2m a year. Would YOU take the reigns of this fanatical fanned team for less than that? You, who will be the lightning rod for everything bad in this team. It's easy for us to say, "hey take low money and prove it", well what IF Price does take $1m per year for three years, and the first two years is the top goalie in the league, would the team say "hey, you've been real great and cheap..lets give you more money for that third year", no..thats not how it works. More term eats up more years of RFAness of Price, so if you want term, you have to pay for it.

We all look at what Chicago had this year and were amazed at their talent, and then reality set in, they were playing with $70m+ in players at a cap for $55m. Young players are expected to tow the line, take small paying contracts AND produce in the new NHL. The expectations on these young players around the league are not matching what they're paid, and ANYTIME a player wants decent compensation they get called greedy.

Never mind the facepalm emotion I'd rather have a mooner emotion for you.

I can't believe you stated that chicago got Turco because he was a better fit. Get one thing straight chicago got Turco at 1.3 million on a one year contract because they could not afford Neimi at 2.7 million because of their cap space situation. In fact Chicago lost 9 of it's current roster players this year due to the cap system. Having said that let's get another thing straight if arbitration assessed that Neimi is only worth 2.7 million dollars even though his stats are great and winning the cup with chicago then what would Price be worth? That was my entire point but obviously you couldn't read through it. so next time when you decide to read maybe you can leave your ill temper aside and read deligently.

Edited by nikohab
Link to comment
Share on other sites

IF Chicago really thought Neimi was a great goalie they could have found ways to fit him under the cap. I read your entire post and I have no temper, your post made me sad, that you want to dump a 22 year old player JUST because he's trying to negotiate a fair deal. Why would Price lock himself into a low paying contract when:

a) he would be the number #1 goalie

b) have to deal with the fanatical fans, media

c) Teams show very little loyalty to players these days, why should players? Players if they have an off year are expected to take a paycut, when a player performs greater than his salary do teams offer them more money?

Longer contracts are about potential, you're paying for potential down the road, but all of this is mute, we HAVE zero idea what the negotiations are even about. The money could be fine for both but the habs pushing for 4 years and Price wanting 2. I wouldn't blame Price for only wanting a 2 year contract, cause then he'd be free to go to arbitration, unless the habs want to up the cash on a four year deal, avoiding arbitration and rolling the dice the Price performs up to or over his contract.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

IF Chicago really thought Neimi was a great goalie they could have found ways to fit him under the cap. I read your entire post and I have no temper, your post made me sad, that you want to dump a 22 year old player JUST because he's trying to negotiate a fair deal. Why would Price lock himself into a low paying contract when:

a) he would be the number #1 goalie

b) have to deal with the fanatical fans, media

c) Teams show very little loyalty to players these days, why should players? Players if they have an off year are expected to take a paycut, when a player performs greater than his salary do teams offer them more money?

Longer contracts are about potential, you're paying for potential down the road, but all of this is mute, we HAVE zero idea what the negotiations are even about. The money could be fine for both but the habs pushing for 4 years and Price wanting 2. I wouldn't blame Price for only wanting a 2 year contract, cause then he'd be free to go to arbitration, unless the habs want to up the cash on a four year deal, avoiding arbitration and rolling the dice the Price performs up to or over his contract.

Chicago had offered a long term contract to Neimi reportedly worth around 2.3 million per year therefore chicago did show confidence in keeping him in chicago. The real issue was all about cap space. When arbitration awarded Neimi with 2.7 million per year chicago simply couldn't afford him and as a result Neimi and chicago were both losers. I have always defended Price and I'm sure that he will someday be an elite goalie in this league but I never believed it to be with montreal because of the media and the gutless bastards who constantly boo him when he has an average game. Let me also affirm that I do share your respect and confidence regarding Price however my only concern is that montreal always has to overpay players in order to play here. I believe that this gifted young kid Price will rise up to the occassion and be the great goalie that he really is but what if all that is just wishful thinking and we take another big hit on our cap which is currently I believe over the edge. By the way I appreciate your comments and always enjoy a good debate.

Edited by nikohab
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder why they don't just give him the short term one/two year deal and get it done. Then it is all on Price to prove he desearves more quickly..... I would go the 1 year and if he has his break out year, yeah it costs us but we have our #1. If he doesn't he is still a rfa and we can sign him at that point... or not...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I wonder why they don't just give him the short term one/two year deal and get it done. Then it is all on Price to prove he desearves more quickly..... I would go the 1 year and if he has his break out year, yeah it costs us but we have our #1. If he doesn't he is still a rfa and we can sign him at that point... or not...

It takes 2 sides to agree to that though. Evidently, 1 side wants the short-term and the other a long-term deal. In the end there will be a compromise, but it probably won't be until right before training camp, especially if it's Price who wants the long-term contract (as I've heard it is).

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




×
×
  • Create New...