Is this it?

[bar]

As per the title...is the puzzle complete? Is there any more tinkering before the season starts?

Whats everyones guess for starting lineup/lines?

[ForumGhost]

Everything looks solid from where I stand.

[KEEP26]

i would think we give the young guys a chances....i could see a trade if one of them cant get the job done...

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

i would think we give the young guys a chances....i could see a trade if one of them cant get the job done...

I've made the case for a Bill Guerin or equivalent in order to enhance our capacity to ice two respectable scoring lines over the course of a full season, on the assumption that neither Pouliot not Kostitsyn can be relied upon to deliver that. And I still believe that we will need to enter the playoffs with such a player if we wish to really be dangerous.

Having said that, I think that Gauthier will go into the season with this lineup and tinker later. $2 mil is a nice cushion if a trade possibility opens up (you don't just have to trade contracts, you can take on a little more; e.g., Kostisyn for someone more expensive), or to add that missing ingredient later on. He likely will use it before the deadline.

[Toronthab]

tick, tick, tick, tick....

[hab29RETIRED]

I've made the case for a Bill Guerin or equivalent in order to enhance our capacity to ice two respectable scoring lines over the course of a full season, on the assumption that neither Pouliot not Kostitsyn can be relied upon to deliver that. And I still believe that we will need to enter the playoffs with such a player if we wish to really be dangerous.

Having said that, I think that Gauthier will go into the season with this lineup and tinker later. $2 mil is a nice cushion if a trade possibility opens up (you don't just have to trade contracts, you can take on a little more; e.g., Kostisyn for someone more expensive), or to add that missing ingredient later on. He likely will use it before the deadline.

Let's worry about the play-offs once we are there. My concern is making the playoffs. We have two NHL centres and then a couple of kids that we hope will come through. We have two guys on our top 6 that are question marks (AK46/Pouliot) and Eller who should also get a chance if either of them don't get in.

Having said that, i'd rather roll the dice on the kids and *HOPE* they come through, then get a Guerin at this stage. The habs NEED at least one of Ak46/Pouliot/Eller to be a top 6 for this team to have be better offensively (as well as less injuries then last year).

However, I'm still more concerned about the D. Subban in MAB out is a no brain improvement. hopefully Markov is back early and doesn't miss much time. Gorges is solid. After that, we have aging inconsistency with three guys (Hamrlik/Spacek/Gill) that really have to be used within their limitations for them not to be liabilities (don't have faith in Martin to do that) and some young guys who may or may not put it together (O'Byrne/Carle), or get a fair chance from Martin (I'm going by his handling of O'Byrne last year).

I am optimistic that if healthy, the offense should be better, Price SHOULD start becoming more consistent and with other young prospects knocking on the door (Eller/Avitsin), I'm hoping that AK46 and Pouliot will come in with some sort of sense of urgeny to show they belong. But our defense still worries me.

We barely made it into the playoffs last year and this year, I think we are going to have a much tougher Eastern conference to contend with. Locks to make it in the playoffs IMO the Pens/Caps/Flyers/NJD/Bruins/TB should be locks for playoff spots this year, leaving the Habs, Sabres, Sens, Canes and to a lessor extent the NYR to battle it out for the two remaining spots. If Price is consistent and the forwards and healthy and provide him better goal support, we should get in, despite my concerns about the D. however, if either the offense or Price falters, i don't have faith enough in the D to think it can make up for anemic offense or inconsistency in goal.

The nice thing is that the lineups are set, so hopefully the young guys (AK46/Pouliot/Eller/Lapierre/Boyd) understand the oppertunity (in some cases could be last shots), they have been given and come in motivated and show consistency throughout the year. On paper we should be better. Having said tat, on paper the Pens and Caps should have swept us last year in the playoffs.

Edited September 3, 2010 by hab29RETIRED

[bar]

I agree hab29retired that we need AK and Chickenboy to step up and need to test them before going to outside help at the deadline 1.5m can get you a $3m player.

I disagree about the eastern conference. I see it as wide open this year. Wash and Pitts you could pencil into the playoffs, but every other team like the habs have question marks. Remember Boston and Philly made it into the playoffs with one more point than us, and the habs were without key parts of their team for long stretches last season, not to mention the massive overhaul.

NJ, aging goalie, Kovulchuk issue.

Ott, goaltending.

Boston, over the cap, might have to move Savard to get under, added Horton, still trouble scoring.

TB, crap shoot, massive overhaul like habs last year

Flyers, goalie issues, should be better than they show, but can they.

Sabres, scoring issue, can't keep winning 1-0 games.

Canes, will Ward be the same after his injury.

NYR, who knows what they'll do.

Habs, #1 D out til Nov, potential all-star goalie, potential goalie bust, rookie on top D pairing, aging D corps.

Heck you could add pitts and wash and their issues too. Washington is going to have a harder division this year with: TB, CAR, FLO and ATL all looking to get better. Pitts, they have talent, but they are beatable.

I know this sounds like homerism (this isn't a word I'm sure), but I feel confident in this team, there's no team we can play where I'm like "oh we cannot beat them", this will be an entertaining season.

Cammy/Plek/Ak46

Gionta/Gomez/Eller

Moen/Laps/Pouliot

White/Boyd/Pyatt

Markov/Gorges

Hammer/PK

Gill/Spacek

Price

Auld

This is a little dreaming on my part, but I think Eller will supplant Pouliot before the end of training camp, and Gorges needs more than a 3rd pairing. Hammer has worked well with an offensive young Dman before in Dion Phanuef, so I think that'd be a great pairing.

[BTH]

This is it. We're going to start the season testing whether either of Pouliot and Eller can serve as a 2nd liner.

Cammalleri-Plekanec-Kostitsyn

Pouliot-Gomez-Gionta

Lapierre-Eller-Moen

White-Boyd-Pyatt

Markov-Subban

Hammer-Spacek

Gill-Gorges

Price

Auld

I wish we had Moore.

Top six forwards: so-so

Bottom six forwards: so-so

Defence: so-so

Goaltending: so-so?

But we saw a few months ago that this team has the potential to play over their heads by coming together under Martin's system, so...

Pouliot and Price are X-factors this year.

We barely made it into the playoffs last year and this year, I think we are going to have a much tougher Eastern conference to contend with. Locks to make it in the playoffs IMO the Pens/Caps/Flyers/NJD/Bruins/TB should be locks for playoff spots this year, leaving the Habs, Sabres, Sens, Canes and to a lessor extent the NYR to battle it out for the two remaining spots. If Price is consistent and the forwards and healthy and provide him better goal support, we should get in, despite my concerns about the D. however, if either the offense or Price falters, i don't have faith enough in the D to think it can make up for anemic offense or inconsistency in goal.

How can you possibly consider Tampa Bay a lock to make the playoffs? I like Montreal's chances a lot better than theirs. Maybe you're putting too much faith in Guy Boucher?

[KEEP26]

I agree hab29retired that we need AK and Chickenboy to step up and need to test them before going to outside help at the deadline 1.5m can get you a $3m player.

I disagree about the eastern conference. I see it as wide open this year. Wash and Pitts you could pencil into the playoffs, but every other team like the habs have question marks. Remember Boston and Philly made it into the playoffs with one more point than us, and the habs were without key parts of their team for long stretches last season, not to mention the massive overhaul.

NJ, aging goalie, Kovulchuk issue.

Ott, goaltending.

Boston, over the cap, might have to move Savard to get under, added Horton, still trouble scoring.

TB, crap shoot, massive overhaul like habs last year

Flyers, goalie issues, should be better than they show, but can they.

Sabres, scoring issue, can't keep winning 1-0 games.

Canes, will Ward be the same after his injury.

NYR, who knows what they'll do.

Habs, #1 D out til Nov, potential all-star goalie, potential goalie bust, rookie on top D pairing, aging D corps.

Heck you could add pitts and wash and their issues too. Washington is going to have a harder division this year with: TB, CAR, FLO and ATL all looking to get better. Pitts, they have talent, but they are beatable.

I know this sounds like homerism (this isn't a word I'm sure), but I feel confident in this team, there's no team we can play where I'm like "oh we cannot beat them", this will be an entertaining season.

Cammy/Plek/Ak46

Gionta/Gomez/Eller

Moen/Laps/Pouliot

White/Boyd/Pyatt

Markov/Gorges

Hammer/PK

Gill/Spacek

Price

Auld

This is a little dreaming on my part, but I think Eller will supplant Pouliot before the end of training camp, and Gorges needs more than a 3rd pairing. Hammer has worked well with an offensive young Dman before in Dion Phanuef, so I think that'd be a great pairing.

i agree with most of what u said but i hope ak46 is the one that is surpase and it eller and pouliot that are the 2 top six players we been waiting for and we trade ak46..

[saskhab]

The top 6 forwards are hardly so-so. Look around the NHL... our 5 and 6 guys are better than the vast majority of other 5 and 6 guys. It's the high end that we're a little short on, if anything (a genuine superstar).

The Sabres are also a better team than the Lightning. The Bolts are definitely not locks to make it.

Judging by the bottom six, hopefully Pacioretty can make some strides.

[bar]

I'd rather Pax get big time minutes in Hamilton rather than spend grinder type minutes in Montreal, he doesn't seem the grinder type unless I miss my mark. I really hope White gets a shot this year, I'd love the 4th line of White/Boyd/Pyatt. White is one fiesty little piece of work haha.

[saskhab]

I'd rather Pax get big time minutes in Hamilton rather than spend grinder type minutes in Montreal, he doesn't seem the grinder type unless I miss my mark. I really hope White gets a shot this year, I'd love the 4th line of White/Boyd/Pyatt. White is one fiesty little piece of work haha.

Oh, I generally agree. Ideally, he'd show up to camp ready from the get go.

I don't think a Pacioretty-Eller-Moen/Lapierre line would neccesarily be a grinder line. I'd put them out against weaker competition. Plekanec and Gomez are going to carry the mail and face the tough minutes on this team, just like last year.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

I think we can all see the weaknesses on our team. Other posters have identified them accurately. However, I feel it's ALWAYS a mistake to start panicking about what other teams are doing or have done. Every single year I read posts about how 'the other teams have gotten better and the Habs haven't.' And every single year the Habs make the playoffs while one or more of these 'improved' teams doesn't.

While it's true that the Habs are not a top team, it's also past time that Habs fans stopped griping about us being a 'bubble' team and recognized that our team reliably makes the playoffs. In six seasons since 2002-03 we have made the playoffs five times, getting out of the first round three times. In today's NHL that is an impressive track record; significantly better than, say, the supposedly admirable Vancouver Canucks. And more recent years have seen a marked uptick in performance. Over the last three seasons, we finished first in the conference once (08), were universally hailed as a contender but then fell apart (09), and then went to the semi-finals (10). While the past is hardly an automatic predictor of the future, fans need to start shedding this 'loser' mentality. The Montreal Canadiens have actually been a pretty successful organization over the last six or seven years.

I have considerable faith in Subban and IF Hammer and Spacek don't regress too much due to age, our D actually looks pretty good. The team will have much-improved chemistry so we can expect substantial improvement from within. Pleks, Gomez, Gionta, and Cammy are top-6 players on ANY team in the league. The X-factor is the young players, including Price. If they play well, we will be more than a bubble team. If they don't, it'll be like last season. Like I said, I'd feel better if we had one more player who has a track record of being able serve at least temporarily on the top 6 (Guerin). But hand-wringing anxiety over whether a semi-finalist will make the playoffs seems to me unduly pessimistic. :hlogo:

Edited September 3, 2010 by The Chicoutimi Cucumber

[saskhab]

I'd add Kostitsyn to the list of definite top 6ers league wide, if you look at his career numbers. Problem with him is obviously consistentcy, but overall, he's produced as a solid top 6er. The big question with him isn't if he's a top 6 guy, but if he'll turn into anything more, and if he'll be worth his salary in the long run. It shouldn't be whether he can play with or against good players.... he's proven that he can.

Eller looks NHL ready. How much he can handle is the question with him. Pouliot's NHL abilities aren't in question, either, just we don't know if he can handle better competition over the long run. He might be a soft minutes guy, like an Erik Christensen, or even a Dustin Byfuglien. Maybe Eller can handle a spot alongside Gomez and Gionta, and then Boyd and Pouliot can find some chemistry together to play really effective soft minutes. Martin can be creative, but he does it more to shorten his bench rather than throw a curve ball at opponents.

I like our young depth, but I think we can honestly say that Gauthier is taking a chance on them at this point. One veteran player who can slide between the top and bottom 6 would be ideal. But I don't know if we can afford to add a guy like that in reality. I'd be interested to see how much Ruslan Fedotenko is asking.

[BTH]

The top 6 forwards are hardly so-so. Look around the NHL... our 5 and 6 guys are better than the vast majority of other 5 and 6 guys. It's the high end that we're a little short on, if anything (a genuine superstar).

The Sabres are also a better team than the Lightning. The Bolts are definitely not locks to make it.

Judging by the bottom six, hopefully Pacioretty can make some strides.

I used "so-so" broadly because I wanted to put so-so for everything.

Our top 6 is good but it isn't Cup-winning material (as we are all aware, I'm sure). You can win a Cup without great D (Tampa Bay in '03, Carolina in '04), you can win a Cup without a great goaltender (the finalists in '10, some would say Pittsburgh in '09) but you never win without a stacked group of forwards.

I just checked around and Kostitsyn is one of the best #5 forwards around, Pouliot is probably average for a #6. But we still seem have to have below average scoring depth because most playoff teams either have a dangerous 1st line combination that carries the team (Datsyuk-Zetterberg, Toews-Kane-Hossa, Carter-Richards, Savard-Krejci, Kovalchuk-Parise-Zajac, Stamkos-St Louis-Lecavalier, Crosby-Malkin) and/or third liners with potential to contribute offensively (some of Lucic-Wheeler-Ryder-Sturm, some of Leino-Nodl-Carcillo, Zubrus-Vrana-Clarkson-Rolston). The Habs have Eller on the third line but he's a rookie and we don't know what impact he'll have. Seeing as we have neither high-end producers or a particularly deep group, I consider our forward depth "fair" but not much better. Add a Guerin type to the third line, bump Moore to the 4th (and White to the bench) and our roster looks a lot better just like that. (But I wish there was a better option than Guerin. *goes to look*)

[Habsfan]

I have a good feeling about this season. It took our guys a good 3/4 of the season to gel together. Now that they've had a one full season under their belts, they should start the season off well. Obviously, alot depends on how well Carey does, but I think he'll bounce back.

This team does have question marks (Pouliot, AK46, Eller, Price) If 2 of these 4 guys can produce well, I think we,ll be OK!!

[illWill]

While it's true that the Habs are not a top team, it's also past time that Habs fans stopped griping about us being a 'bubble' team and recognized that our team reliably makes the playoffs. In six seasons since 2002-03 we have made the playoffs five times, getting out of the first round three times. In today's NHL that is an impressive track record; significantly better than, say, the supposedly admirable Vancouver Canucks. And more recent years have seen a marked uptick in performance. Over the last three seasons, we finished first in the conference once (08), were universally hailed as a contender but then fell apart (09), and then went to the semi-finals (10). While the past is hardly an automatic predictor of the future, fans need to start shedding this 'loser' mentality. The Montreal Canadiens have actually been a pretty successful organization over the last six or seven years.

This is exactly the argument that I have with friends all the time. There are only a handful of teams in that period that have been more consistently successful. We as Habs fans have had alot more to cheer about that most teams. Can you imagine being a Leafs fan? We all have Leaf fan friends and nothing is better than making fun of them for not making the playoffs in the last 6? years. In today's NHL it is terribly hard to make the playoffs year in and year out. Most teams have a "win now" attitude and don't have any patience. It takes time to come together as a team and win. This is why I'm kind of glad that we didn't make any major moves(Halak aside). Hockey is arguably the sport in which "team" matters most. I am excited to see what this team can do over a full year after what they did last year. Hopefully we get a season where injuries don't crush us and we can get some momentum. If this happens, I can see them battling Boston for the Northeast division title.

[Kiwihab]

Hello everyone, I've read these forums for a long time, but this is my first post, so apologies in advance if I have put this in the wrong place.

This is just my idea - Not a rumour I have heard anywhere.

I wondered what you all thought about trading Hamrlik to the Oilers for Sheldon Souray?

From what I could see their salarys are about the same (Hamrlik - $5.5M, Souray $5.4M) so the cap shouldn't be an issue.

The advantages I see are:

1. Souray would help our PP, especially with Markov out for the start of the season and Suban a bit of an unknown at this level.

2. Souray would bring some meanness (hope thats a word) to the habs's which they seem to be lacking at the moment. I know he's not a genuine fighter, but he dosn't seem to lose too many from what I recall and he does stick up for teammates.

3. The Oilers can't get rid of him and may even throw in draft picks with the deal.

4. He has played in Montreal before so would know what to expect from fans, media etc

I know Souray has some defensive issues, but we have two solid stay at home types in Gill and Spacek who he could be paired with.

Anyway, just an idea and interested to see what the rest of you think.

GO HABS GO

[Habsy]

Welcome Aboard Kiwihab! Uh, NO to Souray. He's seemingly made from ceramics. He's just way too injury prone. New Zealand!!! one day, I hope to go there.

Edited September 3, 2010 by Habsy

[hab29RETIRED]

I agree hab29retired that we need AK and Chickenboy to step up and need to test them before going to outside help at the deadline 1.5m can get you a $3m player.

I disagree about the eastern conference. I see it as wide open this year. Wash and Pitts you could pencil into the playoffs, but every other team like the habs have question marks. Remember Boston and Philly made it into the playoffs with one more point than us, and the habs were without key parts of their team for long stretches last season, not to mention the massive overhaul.

NJ, aging goalie, Kovulchuk issue.

Ott, goaltending.

Boston, over the cap, might have to move Savard to get under, added Horton, still trouble scoring.

TB, crap shoot, massive overhaul like habs last year

Flyers, goalie issues, should be better than they show, but can they.

Sabres, scoring issue, can't keep winning 1-0 games.

Canes, will Ward be the same after his injury.

NYR, who knows what they'll do.

Habs, #1 D out til Nov, potential all-star goalie, potential goalie bust, rookie on top D pairing, aging D corps.

Heck you could add pitts and wash and their issues too. Washington is going to have a harder division this year with: TB, CAR, FLO and ATL all looking to get better. Pitts, they have talent, but they are beatable.

I know this sounds like homerism (this isn't a word I'm sure), but I feel confident in this team, there's no team we can play where I'm like "oh we cannot beat them", this will be an entertaining season.

Cammy/Plek/Ak46

Gionta/Gomez/Eller

Moen/Laps/Pouliot

White/Boyd/Pyatt

Markov/Gorges

Hammer/PK

Gill/Spacek

Price

Auld

This is a little dreaming on my part, but I think Eller will supplant Pouliot before the end of training camp, and Gorges needs more than a 3rd pairing. Hammer has worked well with an offensive young Dman before in Dion Phanuef, so I think that'd be a great pairing.

TB had a major overhaul. However, I think every move that Yzerman has made this summer has been hailed as being the right one, whereas all of Gainey's moves were being questioned and contentious. IMO every move Yzerman made has been brilliant and he has addressed almost all of the holes in his lineup. If on top of that hedman progresses like he is projected to, they may be a deadly team.

Philly was a cup favourite from the eastern conference at the start of last year, under-acheived during the year and made it to the finals. Their goal tending is suspect, but they are loaded on offense and defense. They should have no problem finsihing in the top 4.

Boston has improved offensively with Horton. I was really hoping the canadiens would make a move for Horton - he would really have addressed our size and physicality concerns. Hate to see another potential dangerous big bad bruin power forward. They also picked up Seguin, who may not be much of an impact next year, but will will probably be a guy that makes me hate the leafs even more. As for them being over the cap, it's no biggy until the season starts and I think they will probably demote Ryder before giving away Savard, unless they are concerned about his concussions.

I agree about Buffalo, the Canes, Ottawa and NYR. However, with respect to BUffalo, I have far more respect for Ruff to get everything our of his team then I ever will of Martin.

[hab29RETIRED]

Welcome Aboard Kiwihab! Uh, NO to Souray. He's seemingly made from ceramics. He's just way too injury prone. New Zealand!!! one day, I hope to go there.

+1

I wouldn't touch Souray with a ten foot pole - I couldn't believe the contract Edmonton gave him and was pissed when Gainey didn't move him. He's more brittle then samuel L. Jackson in Unbreakable and while he may have a cannon for a shot, he needs a brain more then the scarecrow in the wizard of oz.

Edited September 4, 2010 by hab29RETIRED

[bar]

TB had a major overhaul. However, I think every move that Yzerman has made this summer has been hailed as being the right one, whereas all of Gainey's moves were being questioned and contentious. IMO every move Yzerman made has been brilliant and he has addressed almost all of the holes in his lineup. If on top of that hedman progresses like he is projected to, they may be a deadly team.

Philly was a cup favourite from the eastern conference at the start of last year, under-acheived during the year and made it to the finals. Their goal tending is suspect, but they are loaded on offense and defense. They should have no problem finsihing in the top 4.

Boston has improved offensively with Horton. I was really hoping the canadiens would make a move for Horton - he would really have addressed our size and physicality concerns. Hate to see another potential dangerous big bad bruin power forward. They also picked up Seguin, who may not be much of an impact next year, but will will probably be a guy that makes me hate the leafs even more. As for them being over the cap, it's no biggy until the season starts and I think they will probably demote Ryder before giving away Savard, unless they are concerned about his concussions.

I agree about Buffalo, the Canes, Ottawa and NYR. However, with respect to BUffalo, I have far more respect for Ruff to get everything our of his team then I ever will of Martin.

Not to be a nitpicker...but what has the past couple of seasons showed us about what so called experts believe? I put more weight what people on this board think than 99% of the experts out there, (Bob Mac likely the only exception). Your line about the flyers finishing 4th...thats what they said about them last year...and the year before, maybe they are just a bunch of under achievers? Not to mention their division is stacked with the pens and devils, who have both added big parts.

As for the lightning, they've pretty much poached Montreal players...and coaches...and scouts...and others. This should make us feel good about our organization no? Here's is the thing you left out of your description of the Lightning, rookie head coach. A new player who is one bump from retirement (Gagne), a D thats banking on a 22 (I think) sophomore to be their stud. Offensively they good, if Stamkos doesn't revert to previous numbers.

The point I'm trying to make, is there's very few LOCKs anymore, I wouldn't even say Pitts and Washington are locks anymore. That's whats so exciting, the unknown, this is unlike other sports (maybe the exception of Football), from year to year the playoffs look so different.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

Not to be a nitpicker...but what has the past couple of seasons showed us about what so called experts believe? I put more weight what people on this board think than 99% of the experts out there, (Bob Mac likely the only exception). Your line about the flyers finishing 4th...thats what they said about them last year...and the year before, maybe they are just a bunch of under achievers? Not to mention their division is stacked with the pens and devils, who have both added big parts.

As for the lightning, they've pretty much poached Montreal players...and coaches...and scouts...and others. This should make us feel good about our organization no? Here's is the thing you left out of your description of the Lightning, rookie head coach. A new player who is one bump from retirement (Gagne), a D thats banking on a 22 (I think) sophomore to be their stud. Offensively they good, if Stamkos doesn't revert to previous numbers.

The point I'm trying to make, is there's very few LOCKs anymore, I wouldn't even say Pitts and Washington are locks anymore. That's whats so exciting, the unknown, this is unlike other sports (maybe the exception of Football), from year to year the playoffs look so different.

I agree that parity is here in a big way. However, speaking realistically, Washington, Pittsburgh, New Jersey and Boston have to be considered 'locks' to make the dance.

Philly should also be a lock, with only the possibility of horrible goaltending and perhaps collective fatigue from last season's playoff raising a question mark. And I suppose it is possible that NJ could take a lurch backwards despite Kovalchuk, given Brodeur's ongoing decline and an apparent organizational shift toward a more open style. So I'd put Boston, Washington and Pittsburgh in the 'guaranteed playoff team' category and the other two in the '95% guaranteed' category.

The rest of the conference is more or less an even toss except perhaps for Florida, TO, the Islanders, and Atlanta.

So yes, parity, but on three levels really: 4-5 locks to make the playoffs, 5-6 teams that are good enough in principle to make the playoffs, and 3-4 teams that would need a miracle season to make the playoffs. The Habs are in the upper segment of the second group IMHO. If the young guys deliver, they will enter the first group.

[CoRvInA]

Cammy/Plek/Ak46 (Halpern when Ak46 has brain cramps)

Gionta/Gomez/Pouliot if not Eller

Moen/Halpern/Laps

White/Boyd/Pyatt

Darche to replace any of the bottom 6 when needed

Hammer/PK

Gill/Gorges

Spacek/OB

Until Markov is healthy

Price

Auld