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Next season for the Habs


BrenDittero

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I sincerely hope he has a better year in 2011 / 2012.

While I appreciate that he " fell on the sword" he really had no other choice but to call himself out. He makes way too much money for relatively little return.

He knows it.

The team knows it.

The fans certainly know it.

And most importantly management knows it.

I'm glad he knows he needs to be better but saying it and doing it are two different things. As the past season progressed I would bet that every other week he thought the same thing - gotta be better next week.

Didn't happen.

I understand that players can fall into slumps but am curious about what he intends to do to right the problem. After all, what exactly was his problem this year?

Bad line pairings? Bad luck? Maybe a combo?

Seems to me ( and the stats make it clear ) that he's alright setting up goals but his decisions of when to shoot never looked great. He generally didn't seem to ever fight for the puck all that hard and appeared overly concerned with getting hit.

Maybe someone else can weigh in with some ideas on what GOMEZ needs to do next year to step up his game.

Or is he a playmaker more than a shooter and expecting goals is unrealistic?

I'm not convinced that he's a bad player, we're stuck with him for now so I wish him the best.

Edited by BrenDittero
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I have to admit a few of these aren't realistic. Wisniewski made $3.6 million this year, there is no way he takes a pay cut let alone one over $1 million in a UFA year with a weak market. His new deal will start with at least a 4, while 5 wouldn't surprise me, think a Mark Streit contract and add some money to it. For Markov, I think a more realistic 1 year pact would be $4 million guaranteed with the rest as bonuses. Because of the weak UFA crop on defence, someone will be willing to pony up 5+ guaranteed, the 4/1.5 would constitute as far of a hometown discount as he (and his agent) would be willing to take. Hamrlik will take a pay cut but dropping to $2 million from 5.5 is asking too much from him. On a 1 year deal somewhere, he can still get 3+ though you might be able to get 2.75 since he wants to stay in Montreal.

on wiz i meant 3.5 not 2,5 sorry. i am not sure there is a big market for him. he played well in Montreal due to the system. If he wants 4 or 5 then we have to say goodbye. we cannot afford that much for an offensive only defence man. And Strieght wasn't worth what he got and I never regretted letting him go. At 3mill I would have kept him.

As to hammer he is coming to the end of his career, he has lost a step. I think back to when Bob cleaned house. All those guys we thought were worth so much, most of them took pay cuts and significant pay cuts. The marketplace can be a tough beach sometimes. We overvalue what our ufa's are worth in my opinion.

Gauthier is cheap and looks for best value, I always thought Bob was a little too generous with the payroll. It is going to be one interesting summer. :habslogo:

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The choice is EITHER to re-sign Wiz OR sign another top-4 defenceman. Ever since Streit left, we have been left scrambling mid-season to try to shore up the power play. This has cost us picks and is also a gamble you cannot keep running year after year - sooner or later your luck will run out. Make the investment and be done with it.

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The choice is EITHER to re-sign Wiz OR sign another top-4 defenceman. Ever since Streit left, we have been left scrambling mid-season to try to shore up the power play. This has cost us picks and is also a gamble you cannot keep running year after year - sooner or later your luck will run out. Make the investment and be done with it.

i am not sure whatis wrong about having subban and markov on the points. They are both better than wiz. I like wiz but at a reasonable price. Hey we could have signed komi for 5 million like burk did. thank god we didn't. We have a good nucleus on defence, we have to option pick who we will keep and who we will let go. i say we are in good shape but have to make tough choices. The salary cap sez so.

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Next season i would say habs goalie will make it last until rank between 6-14th.

Drafting has been poor in the late five years.

Habs will pay for that.

And there is no UFA signing or miracle trades that could fix that long term.

As much as i like Price, Subban, Eller, Max Pac and PK. thru are not enough core

to build a contender team.

It takes a franchise center and that cannot fall from the sky unless the scouts

find something that the others didn't see.

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i am not sure whatis wrong about having subban and markov on the points. They are both better than wiz. I like wiz but at a reasonable price. Hey we could have signed komi for 5 million like burk did. thank god we didn't. We have a good nucleus on defence, we have to option pick who we will keep and who we will let go. i say we are in good shape but have to make tough choices. The salary cap sez so.

Look, if you want to contend, you need quality depth. Two excellent D + Gorges does not cut it because it assumes that everything is going to go just right. But one serious injury to Subban or Markov and your season is shot (or else you pull another rabbit out of your ass by trading draft picks for a Wiz type yet again). Remember, Hammer of next year is not the Hammer of three years ago - he is seriously miscast as more than a 4th-5th defenceman at this point. So in terms of the structure of the team, you're basically substituting PK for the role Hammer played circa 2009. That is an upgrade, but not enough of an upgrade to elevate us permanently above 'bubble team' status. Rather than shrug and say the cap does not allow us to build a contender, we should be bound and determined to do WHATEVER it takes.

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Just a thought on Gomez.....

Last year, Price laid an egg. He has one good season, then an okay one, then struggled. He had a dismal playoff record. The team held on to him, gave him a vote of confidence and he rewarded them with a stellar season.

Gomez has fallen on his sword and stated he wants to stay and make it right. I know the sentiment is to dump him, but what if they support him and he rebounds to a stellar season for us? He has a lot more "positive history" then Price had at the time. Everyone has slumps in their careers, but it is very possible that Gomez is sufficiently embarrassed by this years performance to go on a tear next year. Its an ego thing.

While I doubt he will ever be worth his salary, if he can be a 70 point guy next year (with a better plus minus), then we would be wise to keep him.

This is going to be a tough call for PG and will probably be made based on inside discussions none of us with be privy to. It will be interesting to see which way this one goes.

Good post. I have always liked Gomez. What an amazing skater. Who takes the zone better? And he had a very disappointing year. We all have them. I would love to see him bounce back. This kind of decision is made man to man. When so many were flabbergasted/..whatever a flabber might be... whith the trading of Saint Halak, the guys sitting down man to man with Price made their assessment.

A similar scenario will play out with Gomez. I hope the answer is positive. He really does seem a preety solid guy in my limited estimation.

:1gohabs:

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Look, if you want to contend, you need quality depth. Two excellent D + Gorges does not cut it because it assumes that everything is going to go just right. But one serious injury to Subban or Markov and your season is shot (or else you pull another rabbit out of your ass by trading draft picks for a Wiz type yet again). Remember, Hammer of next year is not the Hammer of three years ago - he is seriously miscast as more than a 4th-5th defenceman at this point. So in terms of the structure of the team, you're basically substituting PK for the role Hammer played circa 2009. That is an upgrade, but not enough of an upgrade to elevate us permanently above 'bubble team' status. Rather than shrug and say the cap does not allow us to build a contender, we should be bound and determined to do WHATEVER it takes.

I don't know when Wiz became the saviour, but let's be honest defensively he lacks a lot. to me he is not worth more than 3.5 or maybe 3.75 and that is only cause he is making that now. My point is simply we have markov ( i hope) subban spacek gorges ( i hope) and Weber who can replace wiz's offence and we can pick and choose from who we have left from this year. Whether we like it or not the cap does dictate what we can pay guys, see chicago, We are going to have a very expensive defence core as it is and gauthier has to be careful. We need more size and scoring up front. Without that we will never contend. So we must be cautious on how much we spend on what I think is a 5th or 6th defenceman. So no I am not shrugging my shoulders and saying we can't build a contender, I am saying we have to be smart about it and in my opinion 5 mill for wiz in not in the plans. But it is only my opinion. :habslogo:

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I don't know when Wiz became the saviour, but let's be honest defensively he lacks a lot. to me he is not worth more than 3.5 or maybe 3.75 and that is only cause he is making that now. My point is simply we have markov ( i hope) subban spacek gorges ( i hope) and Weber who can replace wiz's offence and we can pick and choose from who we have left from this year. Whether we like it or not the cap does dictate what we can pay guys, see chicago, We are going to have a very expensive defence core as it is and gauthier has to be careful. We need more size and scoring up front. Without that we will never contend. So we must be cautious on how much we spend on what I think is a 5th or 6th defenceman. So no I am not shrugging my shoulders and saying we can't build a contender, I am saying we have to be smart about it and in my opinion 5 mill for wiz in not in the plans. But it is only my opinion. :habslogo:

Well, just to be clear I'm not saying Wiz is the 'saviour.' He is, however, one of the top offensive defencemen in hockey, a huge boon on the PP, and not all that terrible in his own end. Having said that I've consistently said I don't care if it's Wiz or Bieksa or some other comparable top-4 horse. But my real point is that we should build from the back end out, and that doing so requires that we NOT cross our fingers on a D containing only two incontestably top-4 defencemen. You obviously don't share that wider philosophy of team-building. Fair enough.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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Well, just to be clear I'm not saying Wiz is the 'saviour.' He is, however, one of the top offensive defencemen in hockey, a huge boon on the PP, and not all that terrible in his own end. Having said that I've consistently said I don't care if it's Wiz or Bieksa or some other comparable top-4 horse. But my real point is that we should build from the back end out, and that doing so requires that we NOT cross our fingers on a D containing only two incontestably top-4 defencemen. You obviously don't share that wider philosophy of team-building. Fair enough.

Well, I think Markov, Gorges and Subban are all unquestionably top 4 d-men, so we're really just arguing over one spot.

Edited by saskhab
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Well, I think Markov, Gorges and Subban are all unquestionably top 4 d-men, so we're really just arguing over one spot.

Gorges is a slight stretch. I think of him as the best #5 d-man in hockey, although TOI would favour your interpretation, I'll admit. Anyway, surely we can all agree that

Markov-Subban

Gorges-Spacek

Gill-Weber

is a lot less impressive/Cup-worthy than

Markov-Subban

Wisniewski/Bieksa- Gorges

Gill-Weber

Spacek

and that the latter is what we should aspire to. The cap may be an obstacle but not an insuperable one. habsrule cites Chicago as a lesson in poor cap mgt. I say the opposite - they went after the guys they wanted, cap be damned, and they were rewarded with a Cup. We've got a window. Let's make the most of it.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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Price and Subban will be due for massive raises the following year. I would be. carefull tying up that cash on the back end. I know what you are saying though. You need 4 true top four defensemen.

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I don't think cap will be much of an issue next season.

The only defensemen due raises are Gorges and Wis... every other contract is a drop in value. No forward is going to cash in... Pacioretty is probably the closest, and his value is clouded by injury.

The backup goalie next season probably won't make more than 1.5 mill...

Where is the cap problem?

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Gorges is a slight stretch. I think of him as the best #5 d-man in hockey, although TOI would favour your interpretation, I'll admit. Anyway, surely we can all agree that

Markov-Subban

Gorges-Spacek

Gill-Weber

is a lot less impressive/Cup-worthy than

Markov-Subban

Wisniewski/Bieksa- Gorges

Gill-Weber

Spacek

and that the latter is what we should aspire to. The cap may be an obstacle but not an insuperable one. habsrule cites Chicago as a lesson in poor cap mgt. I say the opposite - they went after the guys they wanted, cap be damned, and they were rewarded with a Cup. We've got a window. Let's make the most of it.

Top 4 to me is a positive 16-18 minute ES player who is either on the top PP or PK unit (adding at least 3 mins per game). By my defintion, Gill could be a top 4, but due to his age I'd rather have him 5 or 6.

I agree with you, the bottom D is more impressive. And we should aspire to that kind of depth.

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and that the latter is what we should aspire to. The cap may be an obstacle but not an insuperable one. habsrule cites Chicago as a lesson in poor cap mgt. I say the opposite - they went after the guys they wanted, cap be damned, and they were rewarded with a Cup. We've got a window. Let's make the most of it.

actually the hawks screwed themselves not tendering Q/O's to i forget if it was 3 or 4 rfa's. This cost them huge cap space and they were in trouble after that. It cost the GM his job as I recall. So yes it was bad cap management. The only thing we are discussing really is whether the habs can afford to sign Wiz At 5 million. My answer is no. We will not win a cup without more offence up front and that is the real problem we have. Our defence is pretty good but we were the worst goals for team that made the playoffs. Unless price is going to start scoring we will be in trouble. I want to sign Wiz but A. I do not believe he is a top 4 def. B. I think all you have to do is look at the trade where we got him. We gave up virtually nothing. Nobody in the league apparently thinks he is a top 4 d. Our defence this year played very well. do they need improving of course but at what cost. I want to see a bigger tougher forward who will score goals cause gomez sure the hell ain't going to. A great defence means you lose 1-0. We need goals and Wiz as much as Ithink he is a gamer, playing huge minutes through some awfull injuries is worth 3,5 mill to 3.75 mill. Hell who knows Spacek could have a great year next year :wacko: ok that is a little crazy but we have good offensive defencemen Markov Subban and Weber how many do we need? I am sorry CC that you are not getting my point but hey that is why we call it discussion

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actually the hawks screwed themselves not tendering Q/O's to i forget if it was 3 or 4 rfa's. This cost them huge cap space and they were in trouble after that. It cost the GM his job as I recall. So yes it was bad cap management. The only thing we are discussing really is whether the habs can afford to sign Wiz At 5 million. My answer is no. We will not win a cup without more offence up front and that is the real problem we have. Our defence is pretty good but we were the worst goals for team that made the playoffs. Unless price is going to start scoring we will be in trouble. I want to sign Wiz but A. I do not believe he is a top 4 def. B. I think all you have to do is look at the trade where we got him. We gave up virtually nothing. Nobody in the league apparently thinks he is a top 4 d. Our defence this year played very well. do they need improving of course but at what cost. I want to see a bigger tougher forward who will score goals cause gomez sure the hell ain't going to. A great defence means you lose 1-0. We need goals and Wiz as much as Ithink he is a gamer, playing huge minutes through some awfull injuries is worth 3,5 mill to 3.75 mill. Hell who knows Spacek could have a great year next year :wacko: ok that is a little crazy but we have good offensive defencemen Markov Subban and Weber how many do we need? I am sorry CC that you are not getting my point but hey that is why we call it discussion

If nobody in the league thinks he is a top-4 defenceman, then how come you think he will command $5 mil on the open market? Sorry, but Wiz was an absolute key to saving our season - without him we had no PP - and the idea that he is not a top-4 defenceman is simply ridiculous. As for team-building, look, this team is BUILT on Price and a defensive system - the New Jersey Devils model - and you can't execute that without excellent D. Finally, call me crazy, but I'd rather have bad cap management AND A STANLEY CUP CONTENDER (the Chicago model) than loads of cap space and a bubble team. Some fans seem to think that Cap Space is the name of the Art Ross and Conn Smythe trophy winners. I don't. Just the way I roll, I guess.

Edited by The Chicoutimi Cucumber
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If nobody in the league thinks he is a top-4 defenceman, then how come you think he will command $5 mil on the open market? Sorry, but Wiz was an absolute key to saving our season - without him we had no PP - and the idea that he is not a top-4 defenceman is simply ridiculous. As for team-building, look, this team is BUILT on Price and a defensive system - the New Jersey Devils model - and you can't execute that without excellent D. Finally, call me crazy, but I'd rather have bad cap management AND A STANLEY CUP CONTENDER (the Chicago model) than loads of cap space and a bubble team. Some fans seem to think that Cap Space is the name of the Art Ross and Conn Smythe trophy winners. I don't. Just the way I roll, I guess.

I agree with the CC - the Wiz is most certainly top 4. And I want him. Here's the trouble: he'll want to cash in with a nice long contract after a top 5 dman points season. So, say $4.5M for 4 years rather than $5M for less. I can't imagine PG going for it or the Wiz settling for less than 3-4 years. PG doesn't like to buy high. Because the Wiz has weaknesses, there's a chance he could be a bust if he doesn't continue to produce. The Habs would be in deep doo doo if they ended up with an untradeable $4.5M contract.

It's a very risky situation. If management jumps and it works out, they're geniuses and the Wiz is a hero. If they jump and Markov's knee turns out to be shot, they look smart for covering the offensive d angle with the Wiz. But if they jump and the Wiz disappoints, ouchy.

On the other hand, habs rule and others keep talking about big tough scoring forwards as if there is a magic tree out there that they grow on. Unfortunately they are very very hard to come by. So maybe we should go with what we know is good and take a chance on the Wiz...

Time, and the size of Gorges and Markov's contracts, will tell.

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I agree with the CC - the Wiz is most certainly top 4. And I want him. Here's the trouble: he'll want to cash in with a nice long contract after a top 5 dman points season. So, say $4.5M for 4 years rather than $5M for less. I can't imagine PG going for it or the Wiz settling for less than 3-4 years. PG doesn't like to buy high. Because the Wiz has weaknesses, there's a chance he could be a bust if he doesn't continue to produce. The Habs would be in deep doo doo if they ended up with an untradeable $4.5M contract.

It's a very risky situation. If management jumps and it works out, they're geniuses and the Wiz is a hero. If they jump and Markov's knee turns out to be shot, they look smart for covering the offensive d angle with the Wiz. But if they jump and the Wiz disappoints, ouchy.

On the other hand, habs rule and others keep talking about big tough scoring forwards as if there is a magic tree out there that they grow on. Unfortunately they are very very hard to come by. So maybe we should go with what we know is good and take a chance on the Wiz...

Time, and the size of Gorges and Markov's contracts, will tell.

A wise post. Yeah, and again, I don't have some obsession with Wiz per se. I just maintain that we need either Wiz or somebody like him - an impact top-4 d-man - if we want to build on this season and maybe make the jump to contender. Without that guy, there is no way it happens IMHO.

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If nobody in the league thinks he is a top-4 defenceman, then how come you think he will command $5 mil on the open market? Sorry, but Wiz was an absolute key to saving our season - without him we had no PP - and the idea that he is not a top-4 defenceman is simply ridiculous. As for team-building, look, this team is BUILT on Price and a defensive system - the New Jersey Devils model - and you can't execute that without excellent D. Finally, call me crazy, but I'd rather have bad cap management AND A STANLEY CUP CONTENDER (the Chicago model) than loads of cap space and a bubble team. Some fans seem to think that Cap Space is the name of the Art Ross and Conn Smythe trophy winners. I don't. Just the way I roll, I guess.

lets try and keep to the topic, we got wiz for a 2nd rnd draft pick. You think we can get top 4 d for a 2nd rnd draft pick? they must be in great abundance. The reason he could and repeat I said COULD command 5 mill is because of what he did for us this year. It sure as hell was not his +- rating when he got here(look it up). That is how Mark streight got his money oh and Komisarek oh and souray ( we can souray tommorrow if you want an offensive defenceman who costs too musch money) I agree that we would have been screwed if he had not been here however let us remember that when PG picked him up it was a gamble and nobody was offering anything for him and we were desperate. On the one hand you guys say balls to wall sign him and on the other apparently it is impossible to find a big scoring forward. And yes you are crazy if barely scraping into the playoffs (albeit after a stanley cup) and going out in the first round is your idea of a contender cause we already have that (minus the cup) Chicago are no more a contender right now than we are. Their problem is due entirely to their bad cap management. And we never will be a true contender without more offence. Sign wiz at 3.75 mill and I am a happy guy. Sign him at 4.5 to 5 mill and I think it is a mistake. I usually agrre with c/con most hings but not to be rude I am done with this topic I really cannot explain myself any clearer. :habslogo:

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Sign wiz at 3.75 mill and I am a happy guy. Sign him at 4.5 to 5 mill and I think it is a mistake. I usually agrre with c/con most hings but not to be rude I am done with this topic I really cannot explain myself any clearer. :habslogo:

Wiz won't sign anywhere for 3.75 mil. He may have been a minus player with the Islanders, but he was a plus player in Montreal.

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lets try and keep to the topic, we got wiz for a 2nd rnd draft pick. You think we can get top 4 d for a 2nd rnd draft pick? they must be in great abundance. The reason he could and repeat I said COULD command 5 mill is because of what he did for us this year. It sure as hell was not his +- rating when he got here(look it up). That is how Mark streight got his money oh and Komisarek oh and souray ( we can souray tommorrow if you want an offensive defenceman who costs too musch money) I agree that we would have been screwed if he had not been here however let us remember that when PG picked him up it was a gamble and nobody was offering anything for him and we were desperate. On the one hand you guys say balls to wall sign him and on the other apparently it is impossible to find a big scoring forward. And yes you are crazy if barely scraping into the playoffs (albeit after a stanley cup) and going out in the first round is your idea of a contender cause we already have that (minus the cup) Chicago are no more a contender right now than we are. Their problem is due entirely to their bad cap management. And we never will be a true contender without more offence. Sign wiz at 3.75 mill and I am a happy guy. Sign him at 4.5 to 5 mill and I think it is a mistake. I usually agrre with c/con most hings but not to be rude I am done with this topic I really cannot explain myself any clearer. :habslogo:

I'm glad you're done because your logic is faulty. Wiz was an impending UFA (i.e., a rental). Those guys generally don't command full market value. Also the Islanders are not exactly masters of the brilliant deal. As for his +/- he was a plus player with us (i.e., on a good team). Anyway, what you think is irrelevant. Wiz is a top-4 d-man and will rightly get paid like one. The end.

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Mr. Cucumber certainly doesn't need me to defend his point. But holy cow, this isn't even debatable. Wiz is going to get a hefty raise, and that's all there is to it. I'd love for him to stay, but I'm guessing we can't afford both Wiz and Markov, and I believe we sign Markov.

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This is something that's been on my mind since the final buzzer of MTL / Bos game 7.

Most of the year I've been thinking " if we just had Markov " or " what if Georges wasn't injured " and at the end " what would the playoffs been like with Pacioretty "

- basically, had we not had so many injuries how much better could the Habs have been?

If next year we have Markov, Georges and Patches in the line up and get the luxury of not too many injuries, how dominant could the Habs be in 2011 / 2012?

Obviously, just a speculative - best case scenario - type of question, which also assumes that the team is more or less the same as this year.

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This is something that's been on my mind since the final buzzer of MTL / Bos game 7.

Most of the year I've been thinking " if we just had Markov " or " what if Georges wasn't injured " and at the end " what would the playoffs been like with Pacioretty "

- basically, had we not had so many injuries how much better could the Habs have been?

If next year we have Markov, Georges and Patches in the line up and get the luxury of not too many injuries, how dominant could the Habs be in 2011 / 2012?

Obviously, just a speculative - best case scenario - type of question, which also assumes that the team is more or less the same as this year.

But there will be other injuries.

This is one reason why I keep saying we need a Wiz or equivalent. You have to have that kind of depth if you want to contend. The cap issues are another question.

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