Yemelin close to Montreal

[BTH]

There are two key assumptions to make from that:

1) They will find a way to move Gomez - is it possible with the backloaded deal? Sure, but it's not as if he's the only player in the league with a frontloaded deal, there will be competition from other teams to unload their big tickets as well. It's also hard to fathom ownership greenlighting an AHL burial for 2012-13 already.

2) The players you have listed have to become the secondary core this team has lacked in terms of scoring. It stands to reason that Eller, Desharnais, and Pacioretty will have cap hits above $1.25 million (average salary with 10 million and 8 roster spots) while Leblanc will come in mere thousands under that as well. It doesn't leave any room at all for external help, at least for external players who want a 7-figure salary.

I think both assumptions, though clearly ideal, are hard to make within the next 6 weeks. That's why I think one of the two will go should both insist on multi-year deals.

I think the second assumption is an easy one to make.

The first one is a gamble but that is how the successful teams have been run during the cap era: bring in the players you want and then deal with the cap afterward. It's a bold move but it pretty much ensures that Montreal will have one of the better line ups in the league for the next while.

[dlbalr]

I think the second assumption is an easy one to make.

The first one is a gamble but that is how the successful teams have been run during the cap era: bring in the players you want and then deal with the cap afterward. It's a bold move but it pretty much ensures that Montreal will have one of the better line ups in the league for the next while.

I know I'm not ready to make the 2nd assumption yet. I like Eller but at this time, can you say he'll be a good top-2 centre or a good top-9 one? There's a big difference in the distinctions. Can Pacioretty return to form or will he be like Zednik and tail off after a severe injury? Both are legit possibilities. As for Desharnais, is he the player he was in the first 20 games or the one who nearly went a month without a point? All could pan out, none could pan out, or some could pan out. Obviously a guess has to be made but it's far from a certainty either way.

As for dumping Gomez, there's no guarantee that makes you better either if you wind up overpaying to bring another free agent in who produces similar results.

[BTH]

I know I'm not ready to make the 2nd assumption yet. I like Eller but at this time, can you say he'll be a good top-2 centre or a good top-9 one? There's a big difference in the distinctions. Can Pacioretty return to form or will he be like Zednik and tail off after a severe injury? Both are legit possibilities. As for Desharnais, is he the player he was in the first 20 games or the one who nearly went a month without a point? All could pan out, none could pan out, or some could pan out. Obviously a guess has to be made but it's far from a certainty either way.

As for dumping Gomez, there's no guarantee that makes you better either if you wind up overpaying to bring another free agent in who produces similar results.

Some top 9 players are secondary scorers. Even if those 3 wind up with 10 goals, 30 points a season from the third line, something I'm confident won't be the case, that is still good secondary scoring from the third line at a cheap price. Anyway, if those three turn out to be busts then the Habs are going to remain a bubble team either way. Letting Wisniewski go and investing in marginally better third liners will hardly change that. Montreal's Cup window is opening due to players like those three who have the potential to perform above their salaries. If they bust, then they bust, and the Cup window closes anyway.

If you replace Gomez with a similar player that is say, 2M cheaper (still overpaid), that just means Montreal has 2M more to invest in their forwards (Jagr ).

[dlbalr]

Some top 9 players are secondary scorers. Even if those 3 wind up with 10 goals, 30 points a season from the third line, something I'm confident won't be the case, that is still good secondary scoring from the third line at a cheap price. Anyway, if those three turn out to be busts then the Habs are going to remain a bubble team either way. Letting Wisniewski go and investing in marginally better third liners will hardly change that. Montreal's Cup window is opening due to players like those three who have the potential to perform above their salaries. If they bust, then they bust, and the Cup window closes anyway.

If you replace Gomez with a similar player that is say, 2M cheaper (still overpaid), that just means Montreal has 2M more to invest in their forwards (Jagr ).

The problem is, that's basically what you've got as the 2nd line moving forward with Gomez gone in your scenario. That's certainly good 3rd line scoring but obviously would be problematic as a 2nd line. And because you've got 20+ million in the defence, there's no room to bring in another top-6 forward, short of the possible Gomez replacement you cite.

And just to try and get this back on topic, on the subject of possible hometown discounts that we hope Markov will give the Habs, I suspect that won't be the case with Yemelin.

[BTH]

The problem is, that's basically what you've got as the 2nd line moving forward with Gomez gone in your scenario. That's certainly good 3rd line scoring but obviously would be problematic as a 2nd line. And because you've got 20+ million in the defence, there's no room to bring in another top-6 forward, short of the possible Gomez replacement you cite.

And just to try and get this back on topic, on the subject of possible hometown discounts that we hope Markov will give the Habs, I suspect that won't be the case with Yemelin.

Well, second line would be Pacioretty-cheaper Gomez clone-Kostitsyn while Eller and Desharnais are on the third line. Of the three of them, Max Pac is the one that already seems to be a top 6 forward and only needs to prove that he wasn't permanently damaged by his injury. If Desharnais or Eller improve enough over the upcoming season, one of them might even become the Gomez replacement in the following year, saving 7 million to spend elsewhere. These guys already are legitimate top 9 players that all played their best hockey at the end of their years. With a 2011-2012 season under their belt, I do think it's pretty much a guarantee that all three will still be solid top 9 players in the 2012-2013 season. Yemelin is a much bigger question mark than these three because they've already shown us what they can do in the NHL, even if they haven't reached their full potential.

[Trizzak]

I imagine dlbalr's philosophy is more accurate to the Habs brass than mine (or BTH's), so yeah... expect frugal spending with an eye to next season.

But even in that mindset, going after immediate help either through trade or through free agency is still possible with a 1 year deal.

You really think Price will get 5 million? I can see 4... but 5 just seems a bit much to me for some reason.

[Wamsley01]

I imagine dlbalr's philosophy is more accurate to the Habs brass than mine (or BTH's), so yeah... expect frugal spending with an eye to next season.

But even in that mindset, going after immediate help either through trade or through free agency is still possible with a 1 year deal.

You really think Price will get 5 million? I can see 4... but 5 just seems a bit much to me for some reason.

Why? He got 2.75M last season when he was an RFA. You think that he is going to get only a 1.25M raise?

His next contract will be a lockup long term deal. I would be shocked if he doesn't get $5M.

[Trizzak]

Why? He got 2.75M last season when he was an RFA. You think that he is going to get only a 1.25M raise?

His next contract will be a lockup long term deal. I would be shocked if he doesn't get $5M.

It was the high number at the young age that didn't sit right, but upon further research, the precedent was set with Marc-Andre Fleury's contract.

[BlueKross]

As for dumping Gomez, there's no guarantee that makes you better either if you wind up overpaying to bring another free agent in who produces similar results.

The situation with Gomez becomes more complicated with Eller being on shelf for a spell. You may argue that you can not afford to lose another 2nd/3rd line center. However maybe this necessitates getting better value, and you go out and get another guy and dismiss Gomez.

[SOOPAVILLIN]

It was the high number at the young age that didn't sit right, but upon further research, the precedent was set with Marc-Andre Fleury's contract.

Didn't Halak get 4.75 for 4 years, that sounds good for price 4.5-4.75 for 4 or 5 years. I use Halak because he is much better the MA Fleury.

[BTH]

Didn't Halak get 4.75 for 4 years, that sounds good for price 4.5-4.75 for 4 or 5 years. I use Halak because he is much better the MA Fleury.

Nah, it was 3.75 for Halak.

I could even see Price getting 6 if he has another great season.

[SOOPAVILLIN]

Nah, it was 3.75 for Halak.

I could even see Price getting 6 if he has another great season.

Damn 6 would be overpaying, I say next years playoffs will determine Prices salary more then the regular season. Price was brilliant this year, but we shouldn't empty the bank because a good season. I would like to see his next contact take him too ufa making 4 tops, By then we will have a large enough sample size to see what kind of goalie he will be.

[habs rule]

Damn 6 would be overpaying, I say next years playoffs will determine Prices salary more then the regular season. Price was brilliant this year, but we shouldn't empty the bank because a good season. I would like to see his next contact take him too ufa making 4 tops, By then we will have a large enough sample size to see what kind of goalie he will be.

carey price will sign for 5 mill for 5 years next year. you heard it here first.

[BTH]

Damn 6 would be overpaying, I say next years playoffs will determine Prices salary more then the regular season. Price was brilliant this year, but we shouldn't empty the bank because a good season. I would like to see his next contact take him too ufa making 4 tops, By then we will have a large enough sample size to see what kind of goalie he will be.

I don't think any goalie is worth 6M but there's no chance Montreal lets Price walk. He might be able to demand that much. I don't know if any goalie in the league will have more bargaining power.

[saskhab]

He's still a RFA the next 2 years... no way should he have a 6 in his deal, unless its a four year deal and those 6's are for the last two years, with like 4 and 5 for the first two.

[thib46]

He's still a RFA the next 2 years... no way should he have a 6 in his deal, unless its a four year deal and those 6's are for the last two years, with like 4 and 5 for the first two.

My two cents worth, when evaluating value can we look at Tim Thomas with Boston, I believe he signed for 4 years = $20 Million dollars = $5 million per year. Can Price be compared to Thomas in value? Tim is older but not much more NHL experience because of many years in Europe and AHL before making it to Boston. Just for comparison to judge value.

[JoeLassister]

There is no way that the Habs can compete for the SC with a goalie locked at 6M$ with the actual lineup. If Price wants to win sooner than later, he'll not command such a high salary.

[saskhab]

Cam Ward is at $6.3m. I'd definitely hope that Price would come in a fair amount below that number, but there are guys with high end contracts at a similar age.

[Wamsley01]

There is no way that the Habs can compete for the SC with a goalie locked at 6M$ with the actual lineup. If Price wants to win sooner than later, he'll not command such a high salary.

I don't know how they CAN compete for one with Gomez, but not with a $6M Price.

If they bring back the same core with Wiz are they a Cup contender? I think so. That would be with Gomez and his $7M per contract.

[hab29RETIRED]

I know I'm not ready to make the 2nd assumption yet. I like Eller but at this time, can you say he'll be a good top-2 centre or a good top-9 one? There's a big difference in the distinctions. Can Pacioretty return to form or will he be like Zednik and tail off after a severe injury? Both are legit possibilities. As for Desharnais, is he the player he was in the first 20 games or the one who nearly went a month without a point? All could pan out, none could pan out, or some could pan out. Obviously a guess has to be made but it's far from a certainty either way.

As for dumping Gomez, there's no guarantee that makes you better either if you wind up overpaying to bring another free agent in who produces similar results.

Do you honestly think its even possible to sign anyone to a contract that would bring worse value then Gomez???? I mean, there a lot of options for signing or trading for a $3.5M centre that could bring 30-40% more production for less then half the cost of GOmez.

I doubt if there is a worse value contract in the NHL then Gomez (that hasn't already been dumped into the minors/overseas). Just how difficult is it to replace a centre who had 7 goals, 38 points, was a -15 and then in the playoffs demonstrated he couldn't win a facoff if his life depended on it.

THe way people are afraid of dumping gomez with no options, you would think Gomez was a 50 goal, 100 point player. Hell, given the same ice time and linemates, I think Eller or Desharnais could surpass Gomez (even though, i think Desharnais is better suited to be a winger).

IF the habs ownership was willing to eat his contract next year and then move him the following year, when his salary may be movable because his cap hit is considerably lower then his actual salary, there are LOTS of options the habs could pursue via free agency or trade and be in a better position then they were with Gomez.

If ever there was a case of additon by subtraction, Gomez is the poster boy for it. Hell we gave away SK74, Grabs, Lapierre and Ribeiro for less then a bag of pucks and I heard nothing but they were necessary addition by subtraction moves, and then I see this constant love and fear of moving Gomez??? The guy has been useless and shown nothing but a downward trajectory. It hurt enough seeing McDonough eating up 18-22 minutes with the rangers and hurts now to see Higgins playing the type of role the Habs could have used against the Bruins, yet people are afraid of moving Gomez, becuase they don't think there is another viable option?????

[hab29RETIRED]

I've said it before and I'll say it again, the habs should try and lock up Price long-term, 7-9 year deal, pay him $4M for the first two year extention and average out the remainder at a $5M cap hit.

Same thing with Subban - lock him up for 10 to 12 years at $5 to $5.5M average salary. Both are studs and both should be studs for a long time - I don't see Price as Jose v.2 - Frankly, i wasn't that big of a fan of Theodore and said he should have been moved after his MVP season then signing him to the contract the habs gave him. I was even more pissed when I heard of the Kovalchuk rumours (not sure how true the TSN rumours were, but if they were true, that non-trade is almost as bad as the Gomez and Roy trades.

Anyway, I'd like to see the habs lock both up long-term. Why sign them to two year deals and risk having to pay more then $5M in two years time.

If the habs ownership don't grow a pair and be willing to eat Gomez's salary in 2011-12, they better dump him in 2012-13, by then having Spacek and dumping Gomez would free up $10.7M which would pay for Subban and Price.

[BlueKross]

Do you honestly think its even possible to sign anyone to a contract that would bring worse value then Gomez???? I mean, there a lot of options for signing or trading for a $3.5M centre that could bring 30-40% more production for less then half the cost of GOmez.

I doubt if there is a worse value contract in the NHL then Gomez (that hasn't already been dumped into the minors/overseas). Just how difficult is it to replace a centre who had 7 goals, 38 points, was a -15 and then in the playoffs demonstrated he couldn't win a facoff if his life depended on it.

THe way people are afraid of dumping gomez with no options, you would think Gomez was a 50 goal, 100 point player. Hell, given the same ice time and linemates, I think Eller or Desharnais could surpass Gomez (even though, i think Desharnais is better suited to be a winger).

IF the habs ownership was willing to eat his contract next year and then move him the following year, when his salary may be movable because his cap hit is considerably lower then his actual salary, there are LOTS of options the habs could pursue via free agency or trade and be in a better position then they were with Gomez.

If ever there was a case of additon by subtraction, Gomez is the poster boy for it. Hell we gave away SK74, Grabs, Lapierre and Ribeiro for less then a bag of pucks and I heard nothing but they were necessary addition by subtraction moves, and then I see this constant love and fear of moving Gomez??? The guy has been useless and shown nothing but a downward trajectory. It hurt enough seeing McDonough eating up 18-22 minutes with the rangers and hurts now to see Higgins playing the type of role the Habs could have used against the Bruins, yet people are afraid of moving Gomez, becuase they don't think there is another viable option?????

You think you are frustrated. I am pretty sure I said the exact same thing a year ago, and nobody listened.

[Trizzak]

I doubt if there is a worse value contract in the NHL then Gomez (that hasn't already been dumped into the minors/overseas).

This season? Chris Drury.

Next season however...

[hab29RETIRED]

You think you are frustrated. I am pretty sure I said the exact same thing a year ago, and nobody listened.

I've been saying the same thing since the day the damn deal was made and heard nothing but how Gomez deserved a chance and then later how critical Gomez was to be able to sign Cammi and Gionta. For the past two years I've heard nothing but how great of a skater Gomez is and how effective he is in gaining the zone. Doesn't seem to matter that he usually coughs up the puck after gaining the zone and is a useless perimeter player.

[hab29RETIRED]

This season? Chris Drury.

Next season however...

Wasn't Drury injured for a big chunk of the year? I don't think drury is worse value then gomez and I can't think of any contact that will be worse then Gomez next year.

From a term perspective the only worst contracts are Lecavalier, but for the next 4-5 years at least he is a better cap hit than Gomez. The other one from a term perspective is Pronger and that's because he was over 35 when he signed, so hopefully he'll have to retire before the end of his term and the flyers will be stuck with his cap hit.