Hammer Time

[patience is a virtue]

This possibility seems to be official: http://www.cyberpres...88_section_POS1

After a little debate at HIO over Hammer's value on the PP, I did some homework at nhl.com. The results show clearly that the Hammer was a vital part of the 7th ranked PP in the league last season. He contributed almost as many points as Subban in less time on the ice.

This is one of many reasons why it would be better to trade Spac for pucks to a team that needs to make the cap floor (presuming his NTC won't get in the way) and sign the Hammer.

PK PP TOI:..........237:15 PP TOI/G: 3:04

Wiz PP TOI Mtl: ..176:36 PP TOI/G: 4:06

Ham PP TOI:.......202:28 PP TOI/G: 2:33

…….GP ESGs ESAs ESPs PPGs PPAs PPPs

PK….77…5…….15……20……9…….9……18

Wiz…43…3…….11……14……4…….12…..16

Ham..79…3……16…….19……2……13…..15

Edited June 28, 2011 by patience is a virtue

[dlbalr]

Speaking of Hamrlik, according to JF Chaumont of SRC, he will decide tomorrow on the 1 year offer the Habs have tabled. He wants a 2-3 year deal but the Habs are hesitant to put him into 35+ territory.

[lazy26]

Speaking of Hamrlik, according to JF Chaumont of SRC, he will decide tomorrow on the 1 year offer the Habs have tabled. He wants a 2-3 year deal but the Habs are hesitant to put him into 35+ territory.

Good.

If he wants more than one year, let him walk. Spacek's contract has demonstrated how problematic those contracts can be.

I'd love to see Hamrlik back in a depth role, but as I've stated before, I don't really want him taking ice-time away from the kids.

[Chris]

Signing Hamrlik wouldn't solve the mobility problem the habs have on the back end.

2 guys coming off knee surgery, Gill is incredibly slow and Spacek is below average.

They have 1 good skating dman.

[ForumGhost]

3. We don't know that Gorges and Markov won't be able to skate like they used to.

[huzer]

According to H I/O, Hammer turned down the Habs offer.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

3. We don't know that Gorges and Markov won't be able to skate like they used to.

Yeah, and if they can't, we're screwed no matter what happens.

There IS an issue, though, of somewhat poor fit between our forwards (fast, agile) and our D (somewhat plodding but defensively strong) that is a hangover from the Great Gainey Rebuild of 2009. We have a very clear system built on using our slow but tough D to collapse down low, protecting the slot, and counterpunching with our hornet-like forwards. The key element that makes the whole engine work is the transition from defence to offence that allows for the counterpunch. As it is, only Markov and Subban can reliably generate the transition at an elite level. Hammer is respectable at it, Gorges so-so. Spacek and Gill are abysmal at it.

This is another reason why I wanted us to re-sign Wiz (it's also, incidentally, a reason why Gomez is important to the team structure - he is one foreward who excels at that transition game). The ideal configuration, it seems to me, would be three offensively excellent defencemen (Markov, Wiz, Subban) in counterpoise to three strong defensive defencemen (Gorges, Gill, Spacek/Emelin). Hammer was sort of a middle ground. With both Wiz and Hammer now seemingly out of the picture, we risk entering the season with a fundamental hole in our team structure, especially if either Markov or Subban get hurt. Unless Weber really steps up, the implications could be very serious for our team. Gauthier had better have a Plan B.

[Wamsley01]

Yeah, and if they can't, we're screwed no matter what happens.

There IS an issue, though, of somewhat poor fit between our forwards (fast, agile) and our D (somewhat plodding but defensively strong) that is a hangover from the Great Gainey Rebuild of 2009. We have a very clear system built on using our slow but tough D to collapse down low, protecting the slot, and counterpunching with our hornet-like forwards. The key element that makes the whole engine work is the transition from defence to offence that allows for the counterpunch. As it is, only Markov and Subban can reliably generate the transition at an elite level. Hammer is respectable at it, Gorges so-so. Spacek and Gill are abysmal at it.

This is another reason why I wanted us to re-sign Wiz (it's also, incidentally, a reason why Gomez is important to the team structure - he is one foreward who excels at that transition game). The ideal configuration, it seems to me, would be three offensively excellent defencemen (Markov, Wiz, Subban) in counterpoise to three strong defensive defencemen (Gorges, Gill, Spacek/Emelin). Hammer was sort of a middle ground. With both Wiz and Hammer now seemingly out of the picture, we risk entering the season with a fundamental hole in our team structure, especially if either Markov or Subban get hurt. Unless Weber really steps up, the implications could be very serious for our team. Gauthier had better have a Plan B.

From what I have read and seen, Emelin can pass the puck. Either way, how many Boston Bruins offer up a nice transition pass? Their forwards collapse down low and they to create offense off turnovers.

Nobody thought Streit was going to have an impact in September 2007. Nobody thought that Subban would be our best player in the playoffs in September 2010. The Habs can be a better version of the one that took the Bruins to the seventh game in OT if Markov replicates Wisniewski's play and one of Emelin or Weber are better than any of us have penciled them in for.

July 1st is not the end of team building. The Bruins added Kaberle, Kelly and Peverley in February and the Habs added Wiz in December. I am 100% comfortable in moving forward with a solid 4 of Markov, Subban, Gorges and Gill and watching how the three wildcards develop in Emelin, Weber and Diaz.

You may look back in 12 months and wonder how anybody considered trading Weber or talking about how Emelin replaced Hamrlik. 99% of the league would die for horses like Gomez and Subban who can carry the puck ala Chelios in 1988. I am not concerned about the transition game in the least. Markov and Subban are going to be on the ice for 70% of the game and with Gomez overlap they will be fine even if they don't have another puck mover. Add in a possible wildcard and this team will be fine in transition.

[brobin]

All Gomez needs is a winger like Lucic who can go do the dirty work. Gomez will get it up the ice and if he knew he has a big fast winger driving the corner or net, he would be setting him up all the time. Unfortunately, our guys tended to play the "speed / skill game", so Gomez had to make a perfect pass or try to eat the puck along the boards. I am hoping Pacs can bring more options to the line if he plays like he was before going down,

I am starting to think that Wiz, PK, and Markov is a bit of redundancy. If we want PK and Markov to play the dangerous offensive role, we need solid guys with them, not another guy trying to be offensive. I like Markov/Gorges, Subban/Gill pairings 5 on 5. Wide open D looks good when they score, but ask Washington how that worked out for them the previous year.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

From what I have read and seen, Emelin can pass the puck. Either way, how many Boston Bruins offer up a nice transition pass? Their forwards collapse down low and they to create offense off turnovers.

Nobody thought Streit was going to have an impact in September 2007. Nobody thought that Subban would be our best player in the playoffs in September 2010. The Habs can be a better version of the one that took the Bruins to the seventh game in OT if Markov replicates Wisniewski's play and one of Emelin or Weber are better than any of us have penciled them in for.

July 1st is not the end of team building. The Bruins added Kaberle, Kelly and Peverley in February and the Habs added Wiz in December. I am 100% comfortable in moving forward with a solid 4 of Markov, Subban, Gorges and Gill and watching how the three wildcards develop in Emelin, Weber and Diaz.

You may look back in 12 months and wonder how anybody considered trading Weber or talking about how Emelin replaced Hamrlik. 99% of the league would die for horses like Gomez and Subban who can carry the puck ala Chelios in 1988. I am not concerned about the transition game in the least. Markov and Subban are going to be on the ice for 70% of the game and with Gomez overlap they will be fine even if they don't have another puck mover. Add in a possible wildcard and this team will be fine in transition.

Well, I hope you're right, obviously. It is true that at some point you have to trust your young players (in this case, Weber) to step up. But if either Markov or Subban go down with an injury this team as currently configured is going to have a HELL of a time transitioning to offence and an equally nightmarish time on the powerplay, unless Weber turns out to be for real. I'm not saying the losses of Wiz + Hammer is a crippling blow, but that IS two of our top four from last season and the significance of such losses should not be understated.

Presumably Gauthier has decided, in line with one school of thought on this board, that the main priority should be an upgrade at FW. That's a defensible view - but not my preference.

EDIT: another way to look at it is as a rebuilding year on the blueline: giving Emelin and Weber a real shot. Because I see us as borderline contenders, this isn't, again, an approach I endorse.

[Wamsley01]

Well, I hope you're right, obviously. It is true that at some point you have to trust your young players (in this case, Weber) to step up. But if either Markov or Subban go down with an injury this team as currently configured is going to have a HELL of a time transitioning to offence and an equally nightmarish time on the powerplay, unless Weber turns out to be for real. I'm not saying the losses of Wiz + Hammer is a crippling blow, but that IS two of our top four from last season and the significance of such losses should not be understated.

Presumably Gauthier has decided, in line with one school of thought on this board, that the main priority should be an upgrade at FW. That's a defensible view - but not my preference.

EDIT: another way to look at it is as a rebuilding year on the blueline: giving Emelin and Weber a real shot. Because I see us as borderline contenders, this isn't, again, an approach I endorse.

How many teams have the depth to survive the loss of a Markov/Subban?

Does Boston win if Chara goes down? Would the Wings succeed without Lidstrom? The Flyers collapsed without Pronger last season.

I don't know if you can build in a cap age with the idea that your best players are going to be eliminated. Can you think of a team that lost a major piece like that and was a legit contender? The only team I can think that won a Cup missing their best player would be the 2001 Avs. If you remove a Markov/Subban level player from any of the last 9 Cup winners would they have won the Cup? Think of the 2002/2008 Wings without Lidstrom, the 03' Devils/07' Ducks without Niedermayer, the 04' Lightning without St. Louis, the 06' Canes without Staal, the 09' Pens without Crobsy etc etc etc.

If this was pre-cap and the Habs didn't have to plan on how to fit Price/Subban under the cap in the near future, then they would have re-signed Wiz and money could have provided this type of depth you crave, but I don't know if it is a realistic scenario in 2012.

The Habs can survive a minor to mid-level injury to any of their elite players not named Price (10-25 games), but no team can really survive the devastating type injury that Markov suffered last season and still win a Stanley Cup.

[The Chicoutimi Cucumber]

How many teams have the depth to survive the loss of a Markov/Subban?

Does Boston win if Chara goes down? Would the Wings succeed without Lidstrom? The Flyers collapsed without Pronger last season.

I don't know if you can build in a cap age with the idea that your best players are going to be eliminated. Can you think of a team that lost a major piece like that and was a legit contender? The only team I can think that won a Cup missing their best player would be the 2001 Avs. If you remove a Markov/Subban level player from any of the last 9 Cup winners would they have won the Cup? Think of the 2002/2008 Wings without Lidstrom, the 03' Devils/07' Ducks without Niedermayer, the 04' Lightning without St. Louis, the 06' Canes without Staal, the 09' Pens without Crobsy etc etc etc.

If this was pre-cap and the Habs didn't have to plan on how to fit Price/Subban under the cap in the near future, then they would have re-signed Wiz and money could have provided this type of depth you crave, but I don't know if it is a realistic scenario in 2012.

The Habs can survive a minor to mid-level injury to any of their elite players not named Price (10-25 games), but no team can really survive the devastating type injury that Markov suffered last season and still win a Stanley Cup.

Well, my personal team-building philosophy (not that that's worth much) is that you win from the net out. Our current configuration relies on TWO defencemen who have never taken a regular shift in the NHL, or else one of those plus Spacek. While I don't view Spacek as the useless piece of garbage that some fans do, I find that a risky alignment, especially as he is injury-prone and likely to need his minutes managed carefully. A far preferable option would be to have Hammer in the mix, with Spacek to be relegated to 7th defenceman duties in the event that Emelin or Weber really do step up. (I haven't given up on Hamrlik yet...he may find the UFA market less congenial than he hopes, who knows).

I don't believe that, even in a cap era, winning teams rely on everything working out just so. You've got to have quality depth, especially on defence. Right now we don't have it, unless you count Weber/Emelin/Diaz as 'quality depth' - a verdict I find premature.

Somebody suggested that Wiz could command upwards of $6 mil. If that's the case, then I'll cease to gripe about losing him, as that would be an absurd contract. But it doesn't change the fact that right now, this is a risky defence corps...especially, but not exclusively, if you worry about Markov's injury record.

[DON]

Risky d-core?

Should have plenty of depth and if have to play youngsters more, IF an injury occurs, is good in long run, Nash, Yemelin, Weber etc may all do fine if given regular shift and after a good stretch of games.

Defense is minor issue.compared to lack of scoring!

Too bad Wiz is gone, but i assume Gauthier is going to use $5 or so for top LWer for Gomer and Gionta to play with, which would seem to be biggest hole.

I bet Wiz will get at least $5+/year from someone.

Well, my personal team-building philosophy (not that that's worth much) is that you win from the net out. Our current configuration relies on TWO defencemen who have never taken a regular shift in the NHL, or else one of those plus Spacek. While I don't view Spacek as the useless piece of garbage that some fans do, I find that a risky alignment, especially as he is injury-prone and likely to need his minutes managed carefully. A far preferable option would be to have Hammer in the mix, with Spacek to be relegated to 7th defenceman duties in the event that Emelin or Weber really do step up. (I haven't given up on Hamrlik yet...he may find the UFA market less congenial than he hopes, who knows).

I don't believe that, even in a cap era, winning teams rely on everything working out just so. You've got to have quality depth, especially on defence. Right now we don't have it, unless you count Weber/Emelin/Diaz as 'quality depth' - a verdict I find premature.

Somebody suggested that Wiz could command upwards of $6 mil. If that's the case, then I'll cease to gripe about losing him, as that would be an absurd contract. But it doesn't change the fact that right now, this is a risky defence corps...especially, but not exclusively, if you worry about Markov's injury record.

[Wamsley01]

Well, my personal team-building philosophy (not that that's worth much) is that you win from the net out. Our current configuration relies on TWO defencemen who have never taken a regular shift in the NHL, or else one of those plus Spacek. While I don't view Spacek as the useless piece of garbage that some fans do, I find that a risky alignment, especially as he is injury-prone and likely to need his minutes managed carefully. A far preferable option would be to have Hammer in the mix, with Spacek to be relegated to 7th defenceman duties in the event that Emelin or Weber really do step up. (I haven't given up on Hamrlik yet...he may find the UFA market less congenial than he hopes, who knows).

I don't believe that, even in a cap era, winning teams rely on everything working out just so. You've got to have quality depth, especially on defence. Right now we don't have it, unless you count Weber/Emelin/Diaz as 'quality depth' - a verdict I find premature.

Somebody suggested that Wiz could command upwards of $6 mil. If that's the case, then I'll cease to gripe about losing him, as that would be an absurd contract. But it doesn't change the fact that right now, this is a risky defence corps...especially, but not exclusively, if you worry about Markov's injury record.

I believe in building from the net out as well, but you don't really know anything about Diaz and Emelin outside of what you read on the internet and your pessimism in regard to things going wrong for this team. Maybe they are more ready than you suspect, maybe they are not, but we are all commenting with a certain lack of information. The problem is what you consider quality depth. The Canucks quality depth was Ballard and Rome. Ballarad makes a lot of $$, but did not play like it in the playoffs.

Every team that contends has some sort of risk moving forward. The Wings and Hawks won Cups with shirts hanging from the net. The Bruins defense core after Chara would have been suspect in your mind in October.

I would like for Hammer to return, but this could all be rendered moot if Emelin is a top 4. How bad does Emelin have to be to not be productive. How many people loved Komisarek when he played with Markov? How shit has he proven to be without 79? Gill and Subban are a proven pair. Markov made O'Byrne, Komisarek and Gorges look much better than they were and that leaves the Habs with Gorges, Weber, Spacek and Diaz to fill out the final 2. If Hammer was back that would be more than enough quality depth outside of a crippling injury to PK or Markov.

Even though you don't believe in "everything working out so", the Bruins had no health issues outside of Savard, but they knew that moving forward in 2011 he was a major question mark. What problems did the 2010 Hawks encounter? 2009 Pens? No Malkin, Gonchar, Fleury, Crosby injuries. The league is too close now, you need luck and health. The stories are going to be written about how great the Bruins were, but they had 7 games where if they had lost their seasons was done. One bad bounce against the Habs and they were out. One bad bounce against the Lightning and they were done.

If players start dropping like flies, your chance of winning the Cup is pretty much NIL.