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Markov


brobin
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No question the Habs' D has sufficient depth to paper over the absence of Markov for a short span. But I begin from the proposition that raw rookies cannot be relied upon for anything more than temporary relief; and I'm surprised to read as wise an observer as Wamsley telling me to put my faith in guys like Emelin and Diaz who may not even last one season in the NHL.

What the team had with Hamrlik, and perhaps no longer has without him, is the accomplished, minutes-eating veteran defensive depth that would allow the team to succeed without Markov for a sustained period of time. I may be wrong about this, of course. But when you subtract a defencemen who played 20+ minutes per night for us over the past four seasons, and replace him with completely raw rookies while crossing your fingers on a guy who has been collossally injury-prone, that should be cause for concern. Even WITH Markov we are relying on a bottom-pairing of Spacek and Weber. Take him out of the picture and you're depending on guys who have only a vague idea what the NHL/North American game entails.

I also don't understand the breezy attitude to throwing away picks year after year to paper over holes that, year after year, go unaddressed. The same people shrugging off the Habs' bizarre annual procilivity for wasting 2nd-rounders would be the first to tell you that, in a cap world, you need to stockpile picks. Instead we bleed them, over and over, to 'quick fix' our blueline when this should be done off-season.

All this being said, I hope that I'm wrong. If Markov stays reasonably healthy then these anxieties may turn out to be moot. That's kinda my problem, though: if, if, if... Too many things go wrong every year for this fingers-crossing to be a reassuring team-building strategy.

Hamrlik didn't paper Markov's absence last season. If Subban had not raised his game and Gauthier had not brought in Wiz then the Habs would have likely struggled like they did without Markov in Hammers first three seasons.

The difference between you and I is that I trust Gauthier. As for getting upset about a 2nd rounder I could care less. I just watched Burke rebuild his minor league system while missing picks all over the place. At a certain point there will be no roster spot for Kristo or Leblanc etc and they can be dealt for picks, if they do force their way on the roster the guys who they will replace can be dealt for picks to make up for the precious second rounder they deal.

I got caught in linear thinking like this with the cap only to watch teams do all types of moves to get under it. It is constantly evolving and players who you view as stiffs today could have a Pacioretty like rise over 50 games.

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I agree with the above posters who suggest that we wait and see where Markov's at when the season begins.

The Habs organization is in a pretty good spot with management who appear to be making good decisions.

I would even go as far as to say that I'd rather have a healthy Markov in December than a 50/50 Markov in October if he needs more time off.

Personally I wouldn't be all that upset if he missed the first 10-15 games. I believe we have enough in our core team to get by with more wins than losses.

And as Wamsley points out, after last seasons run of injuries, it's who's left standing in April that will make all the difference in our drive for the Cup in 2012.

Can't wait for the season to get underway, it's been a long summer.

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Hamrlik didn't paper Markov's absence last season. If Subban had not raised his game and Gauthier had not brought in Wiz then the Habs would have likely struggled like they did without Markov in Hammers first three seasons.

The difference between you and I is that I trust Gauthier. As for getting upset about a 2nd rounder I could care less. I just watched Burke rebuild his minor league system while missing picks all over the place. At a certain point there will be no roster spot for Kristo or Leblanc etc and they can be dealt for picks, if they do force their way on the roster the guys who they will replace can be dealt for picks to make up for the precious second rounder they deal.

I got caught in linear thinking like this with the cap only to watch teams do all types of moves to get under it. It is constantly evolving and players who you view as stiffs today could have a Pacioretty like rise over 50 games.

Well, it's not that I mistrust Gauthier exactly; I'm agnostic on that question. It's more that I've learned over the years that, despite all the preseason hype, most rookies are fundamentally unreliable. This is often even more true in the playoffs. So it's fine to say that what matters is who's healthy in the playoffs, but if Markov (or Subban) get hurt in the playoffs, then our lack of proven/quality NHL depth on defence will become even more serious. The only qualifier here is that we might be able to pick up a Hamrlik-type at the deadline...although hopefully not for yet another high pick. All I'm really saying is that I don't trust the defence corps as presently constituted. The top 4 is strong, but depth-wise that is not a Cup contender's blueline.

As for managing picks and the cap, I'd point out that Burke replenished his stock of picks by trading quality veterans like Kaberle, which he was able to do because his team was a steaming mound of dog feces with little chance of making the playoffs and no chance of winning the Cup. But the goal for the Habs is to become like the Devils or Wings were for all those years - which means rebuilding on the fly, without going through years as a bottom-feeder. So the situation seems to be different.

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The top 4 is strong, but depth-wise that is not a Cup contender's blueline.

People have brought up the names of, Woywitka, Diaz, Spacek, Yemelin and Weber for the bottom pairing. The problem at the moment is we do not really know if any of these players are capable of playing in the top four if any of them go down... but there are 5 of them. I believe that when you have 5 defense men who could compete for the bottom pairing, well at leased one will make enough progress or has made enough progress in the off-season too move into the top four if we have a serious injury. If we have multiple like last season then we will be in trouble... but I do not believe what happened last year too our blue line is something that occurs frequently.

We will be fine. The fact is, if given time too heal, neither Georges or Markov's injuries have the tendency too come back.

I believe with this roster we can run for the cup.

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People have brought up the names of, Woywitka, Diaz, Spacek, Yemelin and Weber for the bottom pairing. The problem at the moment is we do not really know if any of these players are capable of playing in the top four if any of them go down... but there are 5 of them. I believe that when you have 5 defense men who could compete for the bottom pairing, well at leased one will make enough progress or has made enough progress in the off-season too move into the top four if we have a serious injury. If we have multiple like last season then we will be in trouble... but I do not believe what happened last year too our blue line is something that occurs frequently.

We will be fine. The fact is, if given time too heal, neither Georges or Markov's injuries have the tendency too come back.

I believe with this roster we can run for the cup.

I concur. I still disagree with The Chicoutimi Cucumber and his sceptical view of the d-core and i would toss Nash in with Diaz, Yemelin, Woywitka, Weber, Mitera etc as possible 5th to 7th spot, in the worst case scenario.

Just not sure why so pessimistic about the back end?? At the other end of rink (offense) is where i could see a bit of pessimism, not by me, but i could at least understand it; with Cammalleri, Gomez sucking terribly last year and if they may do the same again (unlikely but).

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Nash could really benefit from a full year as as a top pairing guy in Hamilton, that's for sure. If he gets off to a good start again though, I could see him being called up. As for Mitera, he may be the #5 guy in Hamilton, let alone with the Habs. He's not even close to being in the discussion for a spot right now.

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Nash could really benefit from a full year as as a top pairing guy in Hamilton, that's for sure. If he gets off to a good start again though, I could see him being called up. As for Mitera, he may be the #5 guy in Hamilton, let alone with the Habs. He's not even close to being in the discussion for a spot right now.

i havent heard much, anything, about Mitera, but i assumed he was similar to Carle was and at least top 4 AHLer, just more of a defensive d-man than Carle, but thanks.

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Nash could really benefit from a full year as as a top pairing guy in Hamilton, that's for sure. If he gets off to a good start again though, I could see him being called up. As for Mitera, he may be the #5 guy in Hamilton, let alone with the Habs. He's not even close to being in the discussion for a spot right now.

I had trouble putting Mitera in the conversation as well, but it is more about not having any input to go on. Another option for 21/22 would be to include Weber and Woywitka and forget about the 13th forward. This would make some sense if Markov is on the shelf for long. Weber can play wing if needed.

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I had trouble putting Mitera in the conversation as well, but it is more about not having any input to go on. Another option for 21/22 would be to include Weber and Woywitka and forget about the 13th forward. This would make some sense if Markov is on the shelf for long. Weber can play wing if needed.

With no cap crunch to speak of, the team might as well carry 23 players. To me that means 8 D and 13 forwards, with Weber as an option as a 14th forward but likely not needed.

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With no cap crunch to speak of, the team might as well carry 23 players. To me that means 8 D and 13 forwards, with Weber as an option as a 14th forward but likely not needed.

That not going to the cap really burns a hole in some peoples pocket. We have never done good with carrying that many people. historically these guys have got dismayed with not enough ice time and become distractions--- Begin, Dandenault, Stewart

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Frankly, I am as worried about Pacs and Markov's mental readiness. Pacs has already stated he has to "change his game" to avoid putting himself at risk. Markov has got to be nervous about his knee. It will take both of them some time before they stop thinking about it and just play.

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  • 4 weeks later...

WELL..... this is great news

I returned from a reconstructed acl, lcl and quad tendon after 13 months with a semi tendinousis procedure (hamstring) and ive never looked back..

clearly markov rushed back from his first procedure (less then 6 months) but im not to worried about his 2nd procedure because his first was with a cadavor (corpse's achilles tendon) so the rehab was far less, but the failure rate higher! they say ligamentization occurs after six months (the body breaks down the tendon and rebuilds it as a ligament) he was back prior!

this 2nd time round they used his patella tendon (tendon that holds the knee cap in place).. so outside of a 2nd clean up of the actual joint to remove debris, bone chips and the ligamant/ tendon its essentially his first procedure! the rehab is much more because the knee cap has to restabilize but the knee itself should be just fine the trama of the operation is much less.

lets hope he where's his brace early on and remember he's not even 1 year post op! so he's on schedule..

gorges was back earlier because he used a cadavor and its holding up...

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WELL..... this is great news

I returned from a reconstructed acl, lcl and quad tendon after 13 months with a semi tendinousis procedure (hamstring) and ive never looked back..

clearly markov rushed back from his first procedure (less then 6 months) but im not to worried about his 2nd procedure because his first was with a cadavor (corpse's achilles tendon) so the rehab was far less, but the failure rate higher! they say ligamentization occurs after six months (the body breaks down the tendon and rebuilds it as a ligament) he was back prior!

this 2nd time round they used his patella tendon (tendon that holds the knee cap in place).. so outside of a 2nd clean up of the actual joint to remove debris, bone chips and the ligamant/ tendon its essentially his first procedure! the rehab is much more because the knee cap has to restabilize but the knee itself should be just fine the trama of the operation is much less.

lets hope he where's his brace early on and remember he's not even 1 year post op! so he's on schedule..

gorges was back earlier because he used a cadavor and its holding up...

Cripes, man, that's better information than anyone in the media has bothered to provide over the last 12 months. Thanks. It helps to explain why Markov's knee blew out so quickly upon his return and why we may not have to fret too much about another blow-out this time. That's very reassuring, since, with the stupid decision to let Hammer walk, this team needs Markov more than last year's. Let's just hope we can stay afloat until he gets back.

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WELL..... this is great news

I returned from a reconstructed acl, lcl and quad tendon after 13 months with a semi tendinousis procedure (hamstring) and ive never looked back..

clearly markov rushed back from his first procedure (less then 6 months) but im not to worried about his 2nd procedure because his first was with a cadavor (corpse's achilles tendon) so the rehab was far less, but the failure rate higher! they say ligamentization occurs after six months (the body breaks down the tendon and rebuilds it as a ligament) he was back prior!

this 2nd time round they used his patella tendon (tendon that holds the knee cap in place).. so outside of a 2nd clean up of the actual joint to remove debris, bone chips and the ligamant/ tendon its essentially his first procedure! the rehab is much more because the knee cap has to restabilize but the knee itself should be just fine the trama of the operation is much less.

lets hope he where's his brace early on and remember he's not even 1 year post op! so he's on schedule..

gorges was back earlier because he used a cadavor and its holding up...

Yeah thats great info there! Thanks!

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no worries.... id rather not be educated on the subject but ive been engulfed in this topic since october 23, 2008 but hey... it is what it is

with that said im pretty sure dec 8th marks the 1 year anniversary date... i know in soccer... a player wont return from this injury until minimum 6+months depending on which of the 3 procedures 1)cadavor (shortest rehab) followed by 2) patella (markov's) 9-12 months and semi-tendinosis being the longest 12-14 months... don't sweat guys he'll be fine! the patella tendon is actually over 120 times stronger then an actual acl ligament but less elasticity(stretchy). he has a better chance of ripping it out of his bone where its screwed in then tearing the actual ligament. also, the rejection of the tendon is minimal because of the fact this time they used a part of his body and not something foreign...

everybody wanted to sign wiz and hes had 3 OP's! koivu also had his knee done as one of the most recent habs to get worked on.

acl repairs are common place in sports especially soccer for example, which is a billion times harder on the knees then hockey... dont sweat, andrei will have our PP #1 in no time! but he needs to allow the bone to grow around the buttons(screw) and strengthen all surrounding muscles!

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We need him back, our D is crumbling!!

Defense is a team responsibility. The forwards are not doing a good job on the ice. Once cohesion will be better between them, our defensemen and the goalie, the defensive corp will look a lot better.

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