Markov

[BTH]

The news regarding Markov seems very unsettling. He can't pivot...yikes.

What should the Habs do, exactly, if he doesn't come back? So far everything seems to have been predicated on his return. But if that doesn't happen, we clearly are in no position to be anything better than a bubble team.

Maybe that becomes the moment to swing for the fences re: Ryan, Stastny or Staal? Then try to sign a high-end UFA D-man in the offseason and make a real run? Thoughts?

If Markov's done, the first thing that happens is the Habs trade another 2nd round pick for a replacement. They have enough centers, I can't see them trying to upgrade before finding a PP QB. It's seeming like they won't make the playoffs without one.

Long-term, they would have to change their strategy. Get rid of Gomez at all costs and throw money at a D. They're supposed to be a defensive team but they only have 2 top 4 d-men without Markov.

Other than that, they're fine. As soon as they get another d-man better than Subban (whether it's Markov or not), they'll be a contending team. If it's not Markov, it won't be happening this season and they'll be in trouble.

[johnnyhasbeen]

I am hoping this is getting blown out of proportion. Hoping he is just a little slower going one way than the other and is going to do more rehab to see if it can be improved. If he couldn't pivot one way it would have been obvious day one on skates, one would think? Not giving up hope he returns, Even at 80% he is a better defenceman than most in the league. Maybe not the Allstar he was, but still effective.

I ruined my knees in nets by the time I was 36. The right one will never allow me to ski or play even a pickup game. No side ways strength in it. One major injury and a lifetime of small ones added lots of pain and stiffness, not to mention weakness in my knees in my late 40's. They won't be getting better as I age, nor will his.

I wish Andre all the best, I hope this is just a small bump in his recovery.

[dlbalr]

Gauthier is holding a press scrum at 2:30 to discuss the latest on the longest serving Hab.

[patience is a virtue]

Gauthier is holding a press scrum at 2:30 to discuss the latest on the longest serving Hab.

can't be good news, can it?

[dlbalr]

can't be good news, can it?

Could just be an update since the paranoia has reached and surpassed the boiling point now. The last scuttlebutt we've heard/read is that he's probably shut down for another 4-7 days and could be back in 2 weeks.

[lazy26]

Could just be an update since the paranoia has reached and surpassed the boiling point now. The last scuttlebutt we've heard/read is that he's probably shut down for another 4-7 days and could be back in 2 weeks.

Sounds like PG read JT's latest blog.

http://habsloyalist.blogspot.com/2011/12/tell-truth.html

[dlbalr]

It appears the scrum has begun, follow the Twitterbug on the main page for details. Another surgery forthcoming, it appears, albeit a minor one. Out at least 3 more weeks.

[sakiqc]

It appears the scrum has begun, follow the Twitterbug on the main page for details. Another surgery forthcoming, it appears, albeit a minor one. Out at least 3 more weeks.

Oh boy, tough blow. Hopefully Campoli returns soon.

[dlbalr]

The surgery is to do a little clean up around the knee. Compared to what it could have been, this isn't quite so bad. Probably looking at a January return now.

[patience is a virtue]

the million dollar question is does PG play wait and see, or does he make a move for PP QB asap? can he sign someone like McCabe knowing how full the backend will eventually get in the new year? or does he think bigger (i.e. a multiplayer deal bringing in a younger ace PP QB?)

can he really afford to sit on this news?

on the bright side, I think knowing Markov is out for a while yet will actually recharge the rest of the team - they have been playing the mental waiting game as well. I guess if they go on a bit of a winning streak now, PG is off the hook and will just wait until The General returns. But if they lose a few more in a row, I expect a move.

Edited December 3, 2011 by patience is a virtue

[hab29RETIRED]

the million dollar question is does PG play wait and see, or does he make a move for PP QB asap? can he sign someone like McCabe knowing how full the backend will eventually get in the new year? or does he think bigger (i.e. a multiplayer deal bringing in a younger ace PP QB?)

can he really afford to sit on this news?

on the bright side, I think knowing Markov is out for a while yet will actually recharge the rest of the team - they have been playing the mental waiting game as well. I guess if they go on a bit of a winning streak now, PG is off the hook and will just wait until The General returns. But if they lose a few more in a row, I expect a move.

bigger question is whether PG can continue to give Martin a longer leash until Markov is back. NJ made their move to late last year to recover for the playoffs.

[dlbalr]

bigger question is whether PG can continue to give Martin a longer leash until Markov is back. NJ made their move to late last year to recover for the playoffs.

The biggest question Gauthier has to ask himself is would hiring x-retread coach (like a Therrien, Tremblay, Carbonneau, or Hartley...all French guys as per the team policy) get this team to the playoffs instead of Martin? That can only be answered after considering another question - is the team roster, in its current state, good enough to get there? Personally, I think the answer to #2 is no which inherently means that #1 is no as well. Changing the coach when the personnel isn't good enough, yielding the same result as the present, would be suicide for Gauthier's future which I would think would at least give him pause.

[bbp]

the million dollar question is does PG play wait and see, or does he make a move for PP QB asap? can he sign someone like McCabe knowing how full the backend will eventually get in the new year? or does he think bigger (i.e. a multiplayer deal bringing in a younger ace PP QB?)

can he really afford to sit on this news?

on the bright side, I think knowing Markov is out for a while yet will actually recharge the rest of the team - they have been playing the mental waiting game as well. I guess if they go on a bit of a winning streak now, PG is off the hook and will just wait until The General returns. But if they lose a few more in a row, I expect a move.

We have talked about how McCabe specifically won't come out of the south-east division, but I don't know if we should make a move to pick up another pp qb. Diaz and Weber are both PP specialists, PK had 9 PP goals last year... Unless are trading one of Weber or Diaz... I don't think we should make a move to bring in another d-man. If anything we should be looking at center. Markov will come back, he will make our team better. Hopefully this surgery will make sure he comes back at full ability, but I don't think we should bring in another d-man to a crowded defensive core here.

[hab29RETIRED]

The biggest question Gauthier has to ask himself is would hiring x-retread coach (like a Therrien, Tremblay, Carbonneau, or Hartley...all French guys as per the team policy) get this team to the playoffs instead of Martin? That can only be answered after considering another question - is the team roster, in its current state, good enough to get there? Personally, I think the answer to #2 is no which inherently means that #1 is no as well. Changing the coach when the personnel isn't good enough, yielding the same result as the present, would be suicide for Gauthier's future which I would think would at least give him pause.

The habs need to grow a pair and scrap this bullshit french only policy, as I'm not interested in Therrien, Tremblay (why bring one of the 3 stooges who sent this franchise back into a 15 year abyss????), or Hartley. They already let the only french guy i'd be happy with last year.

Frankly, i'd be pretty happy if they picked up Carlyle.

We have talked about how McCabe specifically won't come out of the south-east division, but I don't know if we should make a move to pick up another pp qb. Diaz and Weber are both PP specialists, PK had 9 PP goals last year... Unless are trading one of Weber or Diaz... I don't think we should make a move to bring in another d-man. If anything we should be looking at center. Markov will come back, he will make our team better. Hopefully this surgery will make sure he comes back at full ability, but I don't think we should bring in another d-man to a crowded defensive core here.

Personally i wouldn't want anything to do with MCabe.

[dlbalr]

The habs need to grow a pair and scrap this bullshit french only policy, as I'm not interested in Therrien, Tremblay (why bring one of the 3 stooges who sent this franchise back into a 15 year abyss????), or Hartley. They already let the only french guy i'd be happy with last year.

Frankly, i'd be pretty happy if they picked up Carlyle.

Carlyle would be interesting, a bit more of a hard-nosed guy which I think could be beneficial. And you don't need to sell me on the language policy, I've been on that bandwagon for years. Until it changes though, those retreads comprise the majority of the options out there for this team.

More on topic, I don't see any defensive deals being made as a result of today's news. Campoli and Spacek should both be back fairly soon, that'll get St. Denis back to the AHL at the very least while improving the depth enough to survive a few more weeks.

[bbp]

The habs need to grow a pair and scrap this bullshit french only policy, as I'm not interested in Therrien, Tremblay (why bring one of the 3 stooges who sent this franchise back into a 15 year abyss????), or Hartley. They already let the only french guy i'd be happy with last year.

Frankly, i'd be pretty happy if they picked up Carlyle.

Personally i wouldn't want anything to do with MCabe.

I agree with both statements, Id like to see Carlyle behind the bench, it would be great to have a coach with winning playoff experience. Plus as a pretty solid d-man to say the least when he was playing I think he could only help the younger defencemen improve their game!

in no way do I want McCabe either, not a fan of the ex-leaf. I was just saying he wasn't on option anyways haha.

[Trizzak]

I am now of the belief that Gauthier should be fired.

Which is a shame, because I like Gauthier. I think he's generally a good GM...

Did he know Markov would be out till January? Either answer is unacceptable:

If the answer is yes, then did he really think this team was going to do well without a #1 defenseman for half of the season? Were there not other options available in free agency?

If the answer is no, then he failed to do the proper research and diligence on Markov's knee, and perhaps was even hoodwinked by Markov and his agent "Yep, knee's fine. See ya at training camp!"

Based on the knowledge we have now, Pierre Gauthier failed the Markov situation, and that is way too big of a failure.

[hab29RETIRED]

I am now of the belief that Gauthier should be fired.

Which is a shame, because I like Gauthier. I think he's generally a good GM...

Did he know Markov would be out till January? Either answer is unacceptable:

If the answer is yes, then did he really think this team was going to do well without a #1 defenseman for half of the season? Were there not other options available in free agency?

If the answer is no, then he failed to do the proper research and diligence on Markov's knee, and perhaps was even hoodwinked by Markov and his agent "Yep, knee's fine. See ya at training camp!"

Based on the knowledge we have now, Pierre Gauthier failed the Markov situation, and that is way too big of a failure.

I agree - i didn't like him from the start. He was the habs head of pro scouting when they signed Gomez. That in ishould tself been the reason for him to be precluded for being made GM.

While most are fawning over his Halak-Eller deal. I hated the deal. I wasn't against trading Halak - I was against trading him without trying to create an auction to maximize his value, however to do that PG would have had to remove his self imposed muzzle.

[Commandant]

I am now of the belief that Gauthier should be fired.

Which is a shame, because I like Gauthier. I think he's generally a good GM...

Did he know Markov would be out till January? Either answer is unacceptable:

If the answer is yes, then did he really think this team was going to do well without a #1 defenseman for half of the season? Were there not other options available in free agency?

If the answer is no, then he failed to do the proper research and diligence on Markov's knee, and perhaps was even hoodwinked by Markov and his agent "Yep, knee's fine. See ya at training camp!"

Based on the knowledge we have now, Pierre Gauthier failed the Markov situation, and that is way too big of a failure.

I don't know about that. Markov was recovering well when the contract was signed, and I can guarantee you that the doctors were consulted on this.

The fact is that he was still a minimum of four to five months of rehab away when he was signed, there was no way of knowing what would happen, but this type of procedure was always a risk.

This isn't a career ending surgery... its a minor arthroscopic procedure... which really shouldn't be all that surprising. Its a minor procedure to clean up scar tissue and debris that has accumulated because of two major surgeries 8 months or so apart.

Its not that unusual, and in fact was a known risk, however one they hoped to get away with.

[Commandant]

I agree - i didn't like him from the start. He was the habs head of pro scouting when they signed Gomez. That in ishould tself been the reason for him to be precluded for being made GM.

While most are fawning over his Halak-Eller deal. I hated the deal. I wasn't against trading Halak - I was against trading him without trying to create an auction to maximize his value, however to do that PG would have had to remove his self imposed muzzle.

I love it that we assume the GM didn't trade Halak for the best value possible.

He was traded in June 2010. Did you see what happened to the goalie market on July 1st 2010?

It dried up, there were more starting goalies who were UFAs than there were available landing spots. Guys like Marty Biron, Chris Mason, Anterro Nittymakki, Evgeni Nabokov, and the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion goalie Antti Niemi took major paycuts.

The risk of waiting to trade him and creating an auction was gigantic. You would have seen these guys sign with potential suitors and the next thing you know, you'd have one or maybe even 0 teams looking for a starting goalie.

This would have driven your price even lower.

[Commandant]

Also on Markov... Chris Pronger just had the same scar tissue problem and had to have his knee scoped too.

[brobin]

Neither a new coach, or Markov coming back will make this team a contender. The problems are more serious then that. My fear is they will trade away assets for a temp solution and hang on to assets at the deadline, to just stand pat.

I don't want the team blown up, but I want to make some moves to take a step forward for next year.

[hab29RETIRED]

I love it that we assume the GM didn't trade Halak for the best value possible.

He was traded in June 2010. Did you see what happened to the goalie market on July 1st 2010?

It dried up, there were more starting goalies who were UFAs than there were available landing spots. Guys like Marty Biron, Chris Mason, Anterro Nittymakki, Evgeni Nabokov, and the 2010 Stanley Cup Champion goalie Antti Niemi took major paycuts.

The risk of waiting to trade him and creating an auction was gigantic. You would have seen these guys sign with potential suitors and the next thing you know, you'd have one or maybe even 0 teams looking for a starting goalie.

This would have driven your price even lower.

Nabakov was coming off another playoff failure. Neimi was going to arbitration. Point is why WOULDN"T you at least publicize your are going to trade Halak???? At least TRY to create a market. BUt the mute PG pulled the trigger with the only team that contacted HIM. After the trade there were GM's that said they wish they had known he was available, just like when Jumbo Joe was traded by Boston, other GM's said they wish they knew he was available.

Neither a new coach, or Markov coming back will make this team a contender. The problems are more serious then that. My fear is they will trade away assets for a temp solution and hang on to assets at the deadline, to just stand pat.

I don't want the team blown up, but I want to make some moves to take a step forward for next year.

To me the starting point is with a new coach.

DELETIONS:

Dump Spacek, Gill, Darche, Gomez and try and move one of Gionta or Cammy.

ADDITIONS:

Get a solid Dman - either a big shut down Dman, or depending on what happens with Markov a PP specialist and a big centre.

[bbp]

I am now of the belief that Gauthier should be fired.

Which is a shame, because I like Gauthier. I think he's generally a good GM...

Did he know Markov would be out till January? Either answer is unacceptable:

If the answer is yes, then did he really think this team was going to do well without a #1 defenseman for half of the season? Were there not other options available in free agency?

If the answer is no, then he failed to do the proper research and diligence on Markov's knee, and perhaps was even hoodwinked by Markov and his agent "Yep, knee's fine. See ya at training camp!"

Based on the knowledge we have now, Pierre Gauthier failed the Markov situation, and that is way too big of a failure.

So you think he is a good gm, but should be sacked because of a "bad" move?

I agree with Commandant about the Eller-Halak trade. There were a lot of goalies available which teams wouldn't have had to trade for.

I am a fan of PG he actually went out and brought in a power forward in Eric Cole, who has been very solid with us. He went to try and get a solid fourth line center in Betts, didn't pan out, but he tried. He took a gamble I would have made. I would rather have a healthy Markov then any of the d, including wiz, that were available. Sure I would have preferred to have Georges signed with the longer contract then Markov, but if thats what it was going to take I would have done it.

Plus he brought in Campoli as depth so we wouldn't have to have so many youth playing major minutes... he couldn't have expected the amount of injuries we have had to our d!

The idea of firing PG is completely ridiculous. He hasn't done anything wrong imo. He has done the best he could do given the circumstances he found himself in.

[Commandant]

Nabakov was coming off another playoff failure. Neimi was going to arbitration. Point is why WOULDN"T you at least publicize your are going to trade Halak???? At least TRY to create a market. BUt the mute PG pulled the trigger with the only team that contacted HIM. After the trade there were GM's that said they wish they had known he was available, just like when Jumbo Joe was traded by Boston, other GM's said they wish they knew he was available.

Everyone in Montreal knew that one of Halak or Price would be traded.

You think the other 29 NHL GMs didn't know?

Pierre McGuire has made this Halak trade into this giant myth that other GMs didn't know Halak was available. I call B.S. on McGuire here. McGuire was fired by Gauthier in Ottawa, and desperately wanted the Montreal GM job when Gainey left. He has a huge axe to grind on Gauthier, and his continual harping on this trade is complete and utter bullshit.

To me the starting point is with a new coach.

DELETIONS:

Dump Spacek, Gill, Darche, Gomez and try and move one of Gionta or Cammy.

ADDITIONS:

Get a solid Dman - either a big shut down Dman, or depending on what happens with Markov a PP specialist and a big centre.

I think the Defence is gonna be very different next year. For sure Spacek is gone. Gill might be gone or in a lesser role.

The minutes that Diaz and Emelin are getting could be huge.

Priority number 1 has to be to keep Gorges.